Apr 11 2006
Failing to make connections
http://www.biology-online.org/biology-forum/about1958-1152.html
“Also, I have noticed that for me the colour of the fibres depends upon what colour is next to my skin. I was getting a lot of red fibres when I was wearing a red thermal. I have stopped wearing red and they changed to blue. I’ll make a note when I change back to red.”
Is this a clue? Is it possible the fibers sense what color you wear and change color to match - some kind of camouflage?
Or… could the fibers actually be coming from the clothes you wear?
Fibers, as I shall explain shortly, are everywhere.
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I wrote that quote and I am insulted that my experience has been taken out of context in the construction of an argument that suggests that the fibres that are associated with morgellons disease are from clothing or tissue. this is an example of the type of publishing on the internet that is brought up time and time again in surgeries to disempower antone who presents morgellons symptoms. in_the_uk
I see you later added that the fibers were coming out of your skin. Why can’t you simply show this to the doctor?
I showed them to a GP and he looked at them through the instrument that he uses for looking into people’s eyes (light and magnification). He told me more than once quite categorically that I did not have fibres coming out of my sking even though they appear whilst he was looking at my hand. He gave me some eczma cream. After I tried the eczma cream (1 week or so) I went back and saw another GP. She categorically said that she was not going to treat me for an illness that didn’t exist and that fibres coming out of my skin were quite normal. She did not use anything stronger than her eyes to look at my hands. I left her office and made a complaint to the Practice Manager. I have a right to receive the appropriate medicine. I sent a copy of my letter of complaint to the Head Office of the Health Care Trust. That GP was out of order. I went back to the Health Centre and took mt walkman and microphone. I saw another GP, asked to record the appointment and showed him the fibres. He saw them and is intrigued. I will go back for another appointment with him and the first GP that I saw next week. There may be a struggle but I will take my walkman to protect myself and hopefully I will then get referred to a dermatologist. How many times have you ever been told that you will not be treated for an illness that does not exist when you have some monsterous fibres growing out of your hands? in_the_uk
But if a doctor prescribed a cream for eczema, can you not try to struggle real hard with the notion that there was a really valid reason for that? It’s perfectly normal and natural that fibers of all sorts adhere to eczematous skin. Learn what eczema is, and try healing. Accept what the dermatologist verifies. Resist that it’s what they say it is, and you’re not helping yourself any, are you? Think of that…how is it that you are helping yourself?
Why is it so hard for people to understand that if they see something, right before their eyes, that no one else sees, then 1) it is either not there, 2) individuals with no connection to each other and no motive are all lying to you, or 3) everyone except you is crazy.
now, of the 3 options, which one seems most probable? that one person is crazy, or that everyone else is?
One is. The others, seeing such instability in that person, and facing the pain of not knowing how else to handle the situation, know it’s best to go along with them.
I’m sorry, I totally misread the question. I do though, think it’s apparently impossible for the person to accept what they’re told by doctors, oftentimes, because they ARE being supported by friends and/or family members. You know? The ill person would trust their word, more than the doctor who doesn’t know them intimately.
Your photos of fibers are very nice; I’ve made many photos like them of clothing fibers, lint, & tissue paper. However, I really don’t see the point you are trying to make. EVERYBODY knows that fibers are everywhere and ANYBODY can see them (or make photomicrographs with a cheap microscope). So what IS your point? Of course the “mogellons” fibers (or strings or what ever you want to call the objects) look similar, THEY ARE FIBERS! (Definition: for practical purposes if it looks like a fiber it is a fiber. Obviously, you know the source of your fibers. If someone gave you fibers (not telling you the source) do you think could you identify which fibers are cotton, or wool, or polyester? Please tell me. The dysfunction here is a very common one among skeptics, only in reverse, referred to as not being able to see the forest through the trees, you guys apparently can’t seem to see the trees that make up the forest. If you take a closer look you can see the trees in the forest you can see which ones are Maple and which are Black Oak. It seems that you don’t want to acknowledge & consider that you or anybody else has the ability to identify common fibers. I don’t have this skill, but I know that I can take them to a forensic pathology lab or others. If the sample is a common fiber, a good lab would likely be able be able to tell me the composition of the fiber, and certainly if it is a textile fiber as claimed by the D.O.P. doctors
Where is the evidence? Where are the labs reports that the dermatologists ordered to identify the fibers? If the fibers were sent to the lab, what tests did the lab tech. use, or did the guy in the lab make a report based on the appearance of the fiber? The Dermatologists who claim to have diagnosed dozens “morgies” as D.O.P., say that the fibers were textile, they say they “analyzed them”, where is the clinical evidence, what was the chemical composition of the fibers? So why can’t the Dermatologists seem to answer these simple questions? They also claim that they can cure these patients, based on the “logical conclution” that if patient doesn’t come back they are certainly happy that they have been cured. So why are thousands who have been there and been to the Shrinks still suffering? Where are they to go to find releif? This isn’t a hangnail, this is serious suffering!
The fact of the matter is, an 8th grade kid with a 30x magnifying glass can see and identify some differences between Mogellons fibers and the ones in your photos. Like WMD’s in Iraq, can’t say positively until you go look.
“Where is the evidence” is precisely my point. I’ve shown that lesions have fibers in them (See the “Morgellons Photos” post), I’ve shown that most fibers that Morgellens believers post look exactly like normal fibers.
Where are YOUR lab reports on fibers?
And yes, I can tell the difference between cotton, wool and polyester, it’s actually quite simple. Here’s a primer:
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/july2000/deedric3.htm
What is the difference? You say an 8th grade kid can see it, but what is it, and why does it not show in the photos?
You see, it’s Occam’s razor - what is simpler, that people with open lesions will get normal fibers stuck in them, or a bio-mechanical mechanism previously unknown to science is producing them.
The fibers look like normal fibers, and nobody has produced any evidence to say they are not.
Morgellons, thanks for responce
Your statement: “Morgellens believers post look exactly like normal fibers.” You really need to deepen your thought process on this.
What does “look exactly like” mean to your eyes? By what exact standard can make this statement. It doesn’t mean the same to my eyes! I can show you a photo of part of a coiled up rope. You will believe it’s a rope, why should’nt you. Oh, but guess what, its really a snake. So now what do you believe? If you’d seen that particular type of snake before, you first would have recognised the “rope like” snake markings, and concluded it’s a snake.
Of couse the fibers look similar, this has been a difficuIty all along, but if you haven’t closely examined the morgellons fibers (lots of them) from a known human source. You likely will not be able to recognise the subtle differences that ARE very real.
Where are My lab reports on fibers? I’d have them if I thought I had the means to get them on my own. I’ve been sending samples to OSU in an effort to get to that end, and I’m still bringing them to my Doctor, a well respected Dermatologist with a PhD at Major Medical University, whom I’ve been seeing for two years. By the way he is convinced I have a thus undiagnosed illness, and is apparently doing what he can. But he isn’t making statements not based in clinical facts. As most other Dermatologists seem to be more than willing to do.
Thats why I (we) go to the Doctors (the experts) we ask them to figure out what it is. Unfortunatly, if your talking or asking about fibers, you just get blank stare. They can only diagnose what they know, but they are unwilling or unable to actually examine the fibers, and they are unwilling or dont’ know how to test them. Where do we go from there? To the Shrink? The Shrinks are sending us back to the doctors. We really have no place to go.
You are talking about me and people like me that have very limited energy and resouces. My point again, is that SOME DOCTORS CLAIM (state as fact) THAT THEY HAVE IDENTIFIED THEM AS TEXTILE FIBERS that were placed under the skin. Were is this proof? If your going to jump on that bandwagon, why is it so difficult for these doctors to bring out this evidence?
Morgellons; you’ve got the right principal, but the wrong question:
It’s Occam’s razor alright - what is simpler,
That thousands of mixed and unrelated people, in a realativly short amount of time, all start having unusual skin problems, along with the same “delusions”, and other matching symptoms, all as a coincidence? and clustered in geographical areas?
Or
That there may be an illness (new or old) thats been spread and transmitted among people in gereral areas. And has been “under the radar” of doctors because this symptoms are similar to many other ilnesses.
Now really, which one is more likely? One of these answers defies logic. The other, history has proven to happen time and time again (AIDS and many others) And yes, many skeptics like you were there then to say it’s all B.S.
By the way, If your thinking of saying that these delusions were spread over the internet, logic would dictate a more equal distribution among internet users, rather than clusters of people. The Illness came before the web sites (and yes I agree they are moslty all crapola, BUT NOT THE M.R.F. SITE) I started to try to show the fibers to doctors many years ago, years before I saw the first web site related to it, not knowing then if anyone else in the world was suffering exactly like me.
I DARE YOU to obtain some morgellons fibers clinically, examine them and try have them positivly clinically identified. Maybe you could put some money where your mouth is? (You know you could do it if you really wanted to.) Good luck finding THE truth.
Igi Ydgi
Did you actually read the “Chain of Chance” post? It is inevitable that a large number of people will have the same seemingly odd set of symptoms just by have the same mixture of similar diseases. It’s statistics, there is nothing odd about it.
As for the clustering - show me the numbers. There seems to be a correlation between where local TV has done a report, and the claims of “clusters”.
The MRF has been saying 26% in California since they had 1000 registrants, now they have 4512, and it’s still 26%. They have no real figures. Their Morgellons distribution map matches the population distribution map in the US. Clusters are around cities, as that’s where the people are. Since their claims are based on their original 1000 people, there only could be clusters in cities even with a flat random distribution.
Show me the numbers.
Why do you keep insisting that I analyze fibers - I’m waiting for some evidence from you that your fibers are unusual.
I agree with you that the MRF site is just about the only site that is not obviously mistaken. I’ll try to focus more on the MRF claims in the future - unfortunately they don’t update their site often. I did just do an analysis of their Letter to Doctors, maybe you’d like to comment on that?
“Morgellens” is most likely a parasitic opportunisitic infection that can establish itself IN the skin (as opposed to ON)of people, like myself, with Chronic Lyme Disease. CLD has been been underdiagnosed/misdiagnosed because the most common lab test utilized picks up acute Lyme infections (high antibody titer) but is not sensitive to lower levels that are present with chronic Lyme infection. Instead the diagnoses given have been the “I-Don’t-Really-Know” dump-bucket dxn. of Chronic Fatigue/Fibromyalgia.
The skin infection is NOT contagious, because the parasites can only establish themselves in hosts with depressed immune systems. I have IT and my family does not. IT is somehow related to Lyme Disease, which is a vector-borne illness. My family does not have this either.
Just for the record, I am a nurse with an advanced degree. I have pulled dozens of tiny shrimp-like things (DEEP)out of the lesion on my face (which does not heal). The lesion started small, and continued to spread and deepen despite numerous rounds of heavy-hitter antibiotics, antivirals, sulfonamides, prescription skin creams, etc. Thank God, whatever they are, they are not alive (by the time they appear in the wound).
It is a frightening thing to have your face literally being destroyed by some kind of strange parasite that no one can identify and treat. For all of you skeptics, at least be grateful that you do not have to wake up everyday to this reality.
Also, most of the non-skin symptoms listed in the Morgellon’s Case Definition are those of Chronic Lyme Disease. The spirochete bacteria infects and ultimately damages multiple body organs and systems.
ANONYMOUS
“If at first the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it.”
-Albert Einstein
I’d say you’re in good shape if you only have limited skin problems, then. I wonder how come it only involves a lesion on your face? When I’d had a short bout of DOP my entire body was involved, but it was from heat rash that progressed into a worsening state. I beg to differ about contagion, because some people who think that they have “morgellons disease”, since it’s the disease that covers every illness ever known to humankind, have contagious bacterial and fungal infections, and some people even think that MRSA infections that they have been diagnosed with, is “morgellons disease”.
If someone actually had shrimp-like things in their face, it would be a simple matter to see them under the microscope.
Unless they were simply picking out follicles, acne cysts, or lumps of flesh from their face.
http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/05/26/neurotic-excoriations-and-compulsive-skin-picking/
“For the record, a nurse with an advanced degree” pulling dozens of tiny shrimp-like things (DEEP) out of the lesion on their face (which does not heal). The lesion started small, and continued to spread and deepen despite numerous attempts with meds to help it heal.
You do need to try something to stop that behavior, nurse. Of course it’s larger and spreading. You’re maiming yourself. Leave it alone to heal, as scarred as it will be. Don’t keep pulling the scar tissue out.
smily
just be quiet
dont u listen?
ya bag
Sure, I listen. I pride myself on being an excellent listener, Al. Since you’re unable to pick up on it, you must have missed my having stated that I have this nasty little quirk about me. You see, I never have taken well to being told what to do. It’s always created an adverse effect. That’s a big fault I admit having, and I doubt I’ll ever change it. Now, depending on the circumstances, if I were to ask someone I know for their opinion on what I should do, and they were to tell me, that might be different. But I have never in my life asked for anyone else’s opinion on anything!!! Hahahahaha!!! Sorry. Albert.
What an appropriate topic, “Failing To Make Connections”. Love ya to pieces, Al.
come on you sanctimonious drivel producing moron…..lets hear your CV/Qualifications.
Or, if you have them, let’s have them….
If you dont have any, then you will endure being told to shut the fuck up, i guess.
So, shut the fuck up. Please
what a fucking joke….:)
I have had this for quite awhile , being a older x nurse , I thought I got it in a hospital, now I am pretty sure i was wrong . I have also travled alot and drank some bad water , not to my knowledge at the time . I could tell you some majior horro storys I have been liveing though , or almost dieing though .
I just want to find the common denomionter , what we all did , ate , or drank , so we can find a cure , may the good of all be with us , maybe if we keep our ideas together , we can help each other with this terrible sickness .
Hi the pdpx parisite division , of the cdc , just releasd my info the other day , guess what ?
what was called a unknowen fluke in 1995 now has a name , what I and many people thought was morgellons is , schistosmiasis -mansoni .
I go to the DR. on the fith , trearment ? I’ll see and let you know , It didn’t work in 95 and drs. had trouble throwing out or not looking back to read my files .
I was to sick to help myself , I am on other meds for aleriges and infections , they are givein spairinly .
But they sure want the money to cut me up , I’ll be back , hopefully feeling better by then , long term care , well see ,., the center wouldn’t let me axcess the lenght of treatment for this , wierd huh ? Barb
So schistosomiasis makes fibers? I can certainly see how a schistosomiasis infection could cause an eventual condition that could lead someone to think they had Morgellons. But that’s just one of the “mixed variety of physical and/or mental illnesses” that comprise Morgellons, and I don’t imagine it’s a particularly common one.
Barb,
Just how many Morgies provided that specimen, anyway? Just because you have Schistosomiasis, if that’s the case, doesn’t mean that any other Morgies do.
TC
Well, what good news that must be, that you’re finally going to get that treated, after all these years, Barb. Cut you up? Now, they should pay you for that, instead of wanting you to give them money.
That is just fascinating. So, are you the only one they’ve released info to, so far, or have any of the others received word also? Try hanging on to those files of yours, this time, Barb, because they help doctors a lot. Good luck, and let us know how things go.
I HAVE HAD MORGELLONS FOR 3 YRS. & 7 MOS. THE FIBERS ARE CHANGING COLORS WITH THE CLOTHES I WARE. I HAVE THEM ALMOST GONE WITH OREGANO JUICE FROM VITIAM COTTAGE, I DRINK IT .MAKE TEA OUT OF LEAVES, DRINK IT, BATH IN IT, PUT IT IN VASALINE, & PUT ON THE SORES. I GOT RID OF THE ONES INSIDE FASTER THAN OUT. I TAKE BENADRIL EVERY NITE
Hi Nancy,
Do you have any ideas as to why “the fibers” are changing colors with the clothes you wear?
In reference to the words “inside” and “out”, do you mean:
A. Internal fibers that pass through your digestive/urinary tract, and external fibers that are in & on your skin
B. Fibers that are “inside” your skin, and fibers that are “out” in your surroundings
C. Fiber optics
D. None of the above
E. All of the above
F. Some of the above
G. You are a nurse
H. You are a teacher
It’s wonderful that you’ve finally improved after 3 years and 7 months. What had been your worst symptom?
Thanks, and good luck, Smilkeykins
“Smileykins” (skooze me spellin’.)
Monsanto went bankrupt right?
ummm stricker and savely have published a new paper or morgellons.
Looks like Citovski was right, re agro-bacterium.
Looks like I was right in respect of horizontal gene transfer.
When does the spin phase, rather than the denial phase, of your operation kick in Smiles, Tall?
Welcome to the photon belt guys.
Opportunity knocks.
All it does is re-report what Citovsky reported. There is nothing new.
In fact, there is nothing new in the entire paper.
It’s posted here, under Morgellons07.pdf
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/morgellons_bayarea/files/
Hello Michael,
Sorry, I’ve been busy. I just thought you might try taking pictures of cooked rice noodles as your fake representation of some of the Morgellons “fibers.” Those have always been the most puzzling for me. Your pictures were nice too, although not as accurate
Take Care,
Aherah