Jan 27 2007
In Hindsight, The Pre-Morgellons Disease Era
There is an approximate point in time when web sites first appeared of patients claiming to harbor unusual forms of skin parasites. Although I don’t know when this occurred, I’d appreciate anyone who could shed some light on the matter. I feel that a substantial portion of the “Morgellons Movement” consists of members of our society who were overly affected by anxiety stemming from the events surrounding September 11, 2001.
How much of a role could such things as the warnings of The Cutting Edge Ministries and the December 13th, 2001 writings of Dr. Patricia Doyle had in influencing such patients?
The Cutting Edge Ministries:
“The New World Order is coming! Are you ready? Once you understand what this New World Order really is, and how it is being gradually implemented, you will be able to see it progressing in your daily news!!
Learn how to protect yourself, your loved ones!
Stand by for insights so startling you will never look at the news the same way again.”
http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1592.cfm
Dr. Patricia Doyle:
“This pathogen is going to be genetically-altered to only infect a certain group of people. I believe that Dr. Wiley’s research of immunity factors of viruses, bacterias and mycoplasmas will be used to create a pathogen that will NOT infect (will leave untouched) a designated genetic type. This portion of the genetic target weapon was no doubt developed with research from Dr. Schwartz*. In essence, a doomsday bioweapon can be released with a guarantee that the genetic code of certain individuals, and the virus itself, will protect these individuals from infection.”
“If an unaltered pathogen were released, such as a virulent strain of Ebola or other level 4 bioweapon, those who release it would also fall victim to it. A type of MAD, mutually assured destruction, has thus far prevented the release of Level 4 pathogens. However, if there was a bioweapon that would NOT kill those who release it, then we would see a worldwide pandemic with a protected group left unaffected by the pandemic or ‘plague’.” [Doyle, Ibid.]
(*The deceased, Dr. Robert M. Schwartz, not to be confused with Dr. George Schwartz)
http://www.rense.com/general18/returb.htm
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52 Responses to “In Hindsight, The Pre-Morgellons Disease Era”
http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5135a2.htm
The findings in this report document the widespread emotional and psychological effects among residents of three states following the September 11 attacks and indicate that some persons sought help to cope with the catastrophic events. Although this survey inquired about the short-term effects of the attacks, the findings suggest the need to consider the long-term emotional and psychological health of the affected population.
Tall Cotton
I’m still digesting the article before I comment, but I realize, this is authored by Smileykins. Well done, SK.
But there’s no study on how 9/11 contributed to the psyche and emotions of individuals who aren’t treating for mental illness. There are a lot of complicated reasons some people don’t treat. Some people don’t know they’re mentally ill. Without question, 9/11 could feasibly have caused a very significant exacerbation in that population. DOP has always been around. That isn’t what I’m speculating.
This morning, I inadvertently found some opinions within one of the links I’d posted…
CDC Investigating Morgellons Disease
http://www.emergingdisease.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=7578
As far as “morgellons disease” is concerned, I see it as an ironic form of terrorism itself. But, as some patients state, their intentions are often that they only wish to warn, and to save, everyone else from the terrible fate that’s befallen them.
Thanks, Sarah. Well, as it turned out, nobody with “morgellons” was on Dr. Phil that day. I can’t help wondering why. Speaking of “intentions”, I just realized that TC’s & my motivation is basically the same as morgies, albeit from such a different perspective. Having been released from the horrid state DOP induces, we want everyone to be well. It’s such a multifaceted disorder, though, stemming from so many various physical and mental conditions. The majority of people with it, have other things going on, and, therefore, can’t be reached. Especially, when they buy into “morgellons disease” and feed it so heavily.
Smiley,
It seems at first glance Morgies and you and TC’s motivations are the same– you want people to be well. I’d jump on that bandwagon, if it were that simple.
But how you go about it is entirely different. One team posts libellous material about strangers and, in spite of having evidence or logical conclusions, acts like stubborn children. Another team seems dedicated to teasing apart the nuances of how science works, and challenging illogical statements. Though I disagree with you on occasion, I have trouble finding much more common ground than the initial motivational statement.
I think that fear and anxiety across the country have risen to a level that some individuals can’t tolerate. From the highest levels on down, it seems like a lot of people are spreading fear and anxiety, and capitalizing on it. One may have the agenda of justifying a war, and another might be using sensationalism to sell a story.
I don’t know if everything that Dr. Patricia Doyle says is the truth, but I do know that a lot of it is only her opinions. She seems to be an alarmist or a rebel rouser to me, but one thing is certain, a Morgie can’t handle it. They are already too fearful and suspicious.
There are not any valid reasons for the fear of Morgellons. They live in a world of fantasy. Dr. Patricia Doyle owns the Emerging Diseases Forum, and wherever there’s a discussion of Morgellons by believers, theres usually a lot of misunderstanding.
I wouldn’t have guessed that a doctor would run a site like that, and especially write for Rense.com. In my opinion that says a whole lot about her character. It also tells me that her purpose isn’t educating her readers. I think it’s purpose is to stir people up and generate fear.
Tall Cotton
Smileykins said:
I don’t believe “I” would ever have fallen so hard for “morgellons disease” if ONLY doctors had done their job properly.
For me, “Morgellons” stands for medical misdiagnosis and mistreatment, for myself alone. If Morgellons turns out to be something other ie. DOP - that’s ok, I am really not bothered anymore, that is now in the hands of the CDC. I stand alone and shake my head with disbelief - I was told on the 4th January 2007 I was 4 to 5 weeks pregnant (confirmed through blood serology). Today I found out I am at least 23 weeks.
What can I say?? I kept telling the doctors all my symptoms. I have been very ill, and it has been such a terrible struggle. I have provided them with more than enough information and symptoms. How hard is it really for a doctor to diagnose a pregnant woman in todays society
So much for modern technology!
Would anyone reading this, with “morgellons disease”, please explain how the house dust you’re exposed to differs from the house dust everyone else has? If anyone will, thank you.
smileykins Says:
January 28th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
“nobody with “morgellons” was on Dr. Phil that day. I can’t help wondering why.”
just a thought, internet rumor. none of the tv listings indicated that it was to be aired, perhaps it’s simply in the makings.
hi, interesting blog! i may commit at times, as activities in life itself allows. i have been following this topic for 2 years, i am in the medical profession, and have seen those you are referring to, however, i remain neutral, unbiased, as this is God’s world, and many phenoms are yet to be discovered, and a large majority will remain undiscovered after human extinction, but our maker “the main man himself” will enlighten us at that point..some things may have us saying… “no way!” “well, how about that!” “who would have thought!” “but i thought….!” or possibly, “you mean we were right?” “you mean we were wrong?”
just a little way of looking at life with a lightened view.
smileykins Says:
January 29th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
Would anyone reading this, with “morgellons disease”, please explain how the house dust you’re exposed to differs from the house dust everyone else has? If anyone will, thank you.
ok once again, not a morgie, but i believe it’s possible that because the nature of everyone’s dust is particulate matter, that which includeds human hair and skin sheddings, animal sheddings, pollen, insect parts, airborne viruses, bacteria, mold, fungus and others i cant think of off the top of my head.
but it would seem possible if morgies have such irritation, and itching on their skin, that the same irritation exists on the skin they shed, which would then cause further irritation after coming in contact with dust.
i hope it is realized that name “morgellons” is simply an identifier, and is not neccessarily believed by morgies to be the disease described by sir thomas. though i am sure some do. but for simple referencing purposes, everything in life must have some identifier.
Hello, Nfo2qun. What type of job do you hold inside of the medical profession, please?
One of the Dr. Phil Show producers had called me a couple of weeks ago, to request my participation on an upcoming program. He’d said this particular show was scheduled to air on January 25th. There was only supposed to be a woman thinking she has “morgellons disease” on the program, and it wasn’t going to be a show entirely devoted to it. I’d never said that it was. Just my mentioning to tune into the show on that day, caused a lot of made up things about me to spread through the morgie community. I learned a valuable lesson not to say anything again, until it happens, and I see it on the air.
I want a morgie person, specifically, to answer what “morg dust” is, but, by and large, they won’t answer questions.
There is no such thing as “morgellons disease”.
…and DOP is an identifier. I’m sorry, but it “isn’t” that I don’t know what they are talking about, when they speak of dust. It is very clear to me, and, also, described by them in detail, in forums, elsewhere. Since “morgellons victims” visit here, so often, I wish that someone would attempt describing something to make us all understand what they think we need to, and don’t. It was only a feeble attempt to try opening just a little bit of communication with any of them. They’re incapable of reasoning things for themselves, completely, and overly suspicious of anyone who differs in opinion. It’s real clear what is going on. Also, the terror they spread among themselves, is very clear too. I’ve never seen such a thing as this “movement”, and just what such a group of people seem to think they’re all doing, is far more bizarre than just the illness itself.
Nfo2gun,
God isn’t waiting on extinction to give people enlightenment. Enlightenment may not be total, but it comes on a daily basis. If we wait until then to figure things out, I think we will be wasting a lot of the present. God gave us brains, and he expects us to use them. Besides, Morgellons isn’t anything but DOP, and it isn’t difficult to understand. Our message here, is an important one. A lot of harm is being done by the Morgies, and they are recruiting new people into their delusional belief system. There is absolutely no evidence that Morgellons exists, but there is plenty of evidence that it doesn’t. That message needs to be told so other recruits don’t get sucked into their group. We don’t do that by waiting on extinction.
Tall Cotton
i am a nurse practitioner. and NOT a typist, or a punctuationist, if one exists, but humor me, let me use it as an identifier…see how loosely i choose the terminology, but that simple term, “punctuationist,” suggests one who uses punctuation.
smileys, not to worry, i had no ill suggestions regarding the phil show…actua
lly don’t know too much about the situation, just had a suggestion as to what may have transpired, admittedly with little nfo….sorry.
AND OBVIOUSLY, I’M NOT TOO SKILLED IN DELIVERING THE MESSAGES HERE, AS I CUT MYSELF OFF.
what is the situation with morgies and dust? i haven’t heard of the relationship of the two. what do they describe in detail. forgive for bringing you backwards in this topic, but i appreciate your patience.
tall, there has been a great misinterpretation in my God/enlightenment statement. i feel blessed/enlightened daily. my comment was based on the AWESOME, beautiful, mysterious, world that God has created. yes, we have brains, and God does expect us to use them, as we do in medicine. HOWEVER, as humans we have our limits. please remember, i am unbiased, open-minded, and will do nothing to destroy a patient. if i see nothing, thats what they are told. lab work, given to them exactly as they are delivered. i do not encourage. i do not discredit, demean, or make psycho diagnosis to anyone with this dopmorgellonitis, whatever it may be, AS LONG AS THERE IS NO HISTORY, OR OTHER OBVIOUS SIGNS OF PSYCOSIS. ……. the very definition of DOP does not include many aspects of the patients i have seen, is it possible? sure. my mind is open…but i must consider all possibilities in my practice….limits in medicine still exist even today. ….medicine is not static, it is highly dynamic, with changes occuring on a daily basis. ……many psychiatric diagnosis of yesterday, have now been proven to be medical conditions today…… psychiatry is simply theory-based medicine, where a committee gathers to discuss current ideas and vote for or against a “new” disease……This is God’s world, so complex that all i was putting out there is that we will never know all there is to know, and HE is the only one with infinate wisdom, of which medicine simply borrows from.
I’m sorry I don’t follow what you mean, Nfo2qun. Also, are you wanting me to humor you for entertaining the false belief that “morgellons disease” is something other than DOP? The Doctor Phil Show was merely something that you hadn’t known had been previously discussed between Sarah and me. I didn’t think you had any “ill suggestions”, I was only hoping to clear up any confusion you’d had.
Nfo2gun,
According to the Morgellons Research Foundation, there are roughly 7000 families registered. Mary Leitao, its founder, said that most morgies have been diagnosed with DOP ten to fourty times. That’s a heck of a lot of opinions from licensed doctors. That, alone, is enough evidence, but there is more, and it’s some of the evidence that the doctors used when they diagnosed tham with DOP, which is a form of psychosis. The evidence is a simple testimony from the Morgie concerning his beliefs, which are quite delusional. Yes, you will see behaviors that aren’t included in DOP. The reason for that is because DOP isn’t the only problem. These people display several mental disorders, including schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, Body Dismorphic Disease, Munchhausen Syndrom by Proxy, Borderline Personality, Hypochondriasis, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Paranoia, Depression, Anxiety, DOP, and probably some others. These are real mental disorders, not just something a group of people voted on. And these people need help. It’s not very likely that the Morgies are going to be cured of the many disorders they are calling Morgellons until they accept the fact that there is no Morgellons.
Tall Cotton
Well, Nfo2qun, since you’d said that you’ve been “following this topic for 2 years”, do you know anything about it, aside from just seeing patients who think they have “morgellons disease”? What field of medicine do you practice, why do you seem completely unaware of the variety of physical and mental conditions that cause states of DOP to manifest, and what do you do to treat your “morgellons disease” patients? DOP is an “identifier” that something else is wrong.
There are many bizarre fears concerning common house dust within this group of patients. Just the other day, I’d said, under the topic entitled:
Morgellons and Neurotic Excoriations
That is only one matter, concerning dust. Some believe it’s alive with nanorobots from chemtrails that the government has experimentally infected them with.
Open minds are what all of us should have when we want to know the truth. After we attain truth, it settles the issue. Truth is not to be found ignoring doctors, saying they are guilty of malpractice, and continuing on, living in a tormented state of delusions. Harming oneself and others, losing your livelihood, and, quite possibly, your very life, as an end result, is where this false belief leads. That is often to be expected when DOP is not treated, regardless of the condition that brought it about.
When there isn’t an underlying physical condition responsible for triggering Secondary Organic DOP, it’s ONLY either the Primary Psychotic form, where it’s the sole psychological disturbance, or it’s Secondary Functional DOP, due to an underlying psychiatric condition. What’s so hard to understand about that? Most of these patients refused to treat it, and fell into this “morgellons madness”, reporting those underlying mental conditions when they registered on the MRF site. The MRF site is quite open about it.
Key word? Secondary “functional” DOP. Come on, now.
The current number of registered households has spread to 9,045 on the newly updated MRF web site
http://www.morgellons.org./
I need to correct myself, over what I’d said previously about Secondary Functional DOP. Many of the previously diagnosed mental disorders that “morgellons”/DOP patients have, actually wouldn’t allow them to be very functional, since they’re obviously untreated, or under-treated. Then, upon developing DOP on top of those conditions, they so often dodge discussing it openly with a mental health expert. But, it’s the Primary Psychotic form of DOP in which a patient otherwise behaves normally and can reason in a rational manner. Not that they get help for it, either, because that’s how DOP diagnoses typically go.
Ah yes, Smilynazi,
the high school grad nobel laureate
you go girl!
Al, do you have anything to add to my speculations about 9/11 as a possible trigger for some patients, since so many seemed to develop symptoms in late 2001?
http://www.emergingdisease.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=7578
To avoid impersonations, in order to leave comments you will now need to register an account with http://wordpress.com/signup/
Email me if you have a problem.
Naturally, Michael has already covered all of this in his topics under the categories of “Delusions”, “Quackery”, and “Science”, but I just felt like saying more, today.
Robert L. Park, a professor of physics at the University of Maryland at College Park and the director of public information for the American Physical Society, authored the book entitled, “Voodoo Science: The Road From Foolishness to Fraud”, (Oxford University Press, 2002).
After creating a list of warning signs to help federal judges detect scientific nonsense, he realized that in our technological society, spotting voodoo science is a skill that every citizen should develop.
Some indicators that a scientific claim lies well outside the bounds of rational scientific discourse…
The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science:
http://skeptically.org/skepticism/id1.html
I’m not a skeptic of “morgellons disease”, just in case anyone didn’t already know that. People who believe in it are ill from other, very legitimate, causes. Someday, I expect it may join a list like this, unless it succeeds in replacing the words “delusions of parasitosis” in the practice of medicine…
Mass Delusions and Hysterias: Highlights from the Past Millennium
http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-05/delusions.html
…Since this is a matter of genuinely ill patients who have fallen under a false belief and helped fuel a movement with some “professional” people who, I surely think, know fully well what they’re doing with them, it’s something very sinister, in comparison to any type of mass delusions and hysteria from the past, in my opinion.
Oh!!! Note number 6, from up above:
Not hard, at all, with “morgellons disease”.
Michael, Smileykins, Tall Cotten, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, glad to see you all soldiering on. Thank goodness the world has some heros left.
As you can deduce from my new name I haven’t visited since the days of regulation, err, registration, but i’m certain you recall my cherry jousting.
Having had a considerable break, I have had quite some reading to do to catch up. It’s been so long since I’ve observed your deliberations I felt very remote from the discussion. The remoteness leant itself to a degree of objectivity one does not enjoy when visiting regularly. From that viewpoint I thought I’d begin by sharing some of those observations.
The first thing that struck me was that there is a consistent theme recurring in your posts and responses. That theme of course being (simplisticly) that all Morgellons/Fibre Disease adherents have delusional parasitosis.
It bothers me a little that that this dogma has persisted throughout the life of the board. When coupled with a hyperenergised enthusiasm to push a political line while claiming to debunk, I can only assess that you may be developing a fixed delusion. As you stated above one of the vagieries of schizophrenia can be grandiose delusions. What could be more grandiose then a self proclaimed messianic purpose?
But enough of the gentle digs, let us feast on the real meat.
Plainly you are falling behind in your mission staement and it’s time for a happy go lucky wakeup call. Because you call yourself Morgellons Watch, you need to be keeping your eye on the ball. Apart from very recent scientific developments and conclusions drawn there from, the increasingly bizarre responses from the CDC et al go without comment. If you blog as an apologist for the status quo that’s ok but dont claim to be on objective or fair observer.
I mentioned some research developments which may be of interest. The text of which I shall paste below. They were published via the MRF website on January 14 and present evidence, a word I believe valid in this context, of a link between Morgellons and agrobacterium. Should you care to meander over to the Lymebusters website a couple of hours grazing should reveal further evidence that agrobacterium is widely used in gene transformation, a surprisingly prolific area of science which oddly seeks little publicity. Within those same two hours you will probably pickup on a little paper linking agrobacterium with mutations of DNA in human cancer cells. I daren’t ask you to jump to any conclusions merely enthuse yourself, do some reading and consider the possibilty that something other then psychosis is happening here.
As you may have noticed I addressed a number of the gang at the start of this tome yet referred to y’all in the singular. These stylistic nuances have been used to illustrate that like the Hamlet charchters, Michael, Smileykins and Tall Cotten, have become so similar as to be interchangeable. Apart from the abject sycophancy of Smileykins to Michaelllans (see above somewhere) I would have thought that the posts of Margs and responses of Smiley and TC, were in some way contrived. Almost as if one states the message while the others reinforce it. I guess it’s just a happy coincidence you guys all found each other at the start of the blog. Oh, I’ve let my imagination run away with me again, it is best to be on your best behaviour when your insane. Otherwise the nice people get nervous.
As Mel Torme once said,
‘Thank you, good night, you’ve been….beautiful.’
Hugh
‘I saw two shooting stars last night
I wished on them,
But they were only satellites
Is it wrong to wish on space hardware?
I wish, I wish, I wish you cared.’
And here is the research I promised,
Vitaly Citovsky, Ph.D.
CONTRIBUTION OF AGROBACTERIUM TO MORGELLONS DISEASE. RB Stricker*¯, VR Savely¯, A Zaltsman**, V Citovsky**. *California Pacific Medical Center, San Francisco, CA; ¯International Lyme & Associated Diseases Society, Bethesda, MD; **State University of New York, Stony Brook, NY.
Background: Morgellons disease is characterized by dysesthesias and dermatologic lesions that range from minor to disfiguring (Savely VR, Leitao MM, Stricker RB. Am J Clin Dermatol 2006;7:1-5). The disease has been reported primarily in Florida, Texas and California. Although an infectious etiology of Morgellons disease has been postulated, treatment of the disease remains problematic, with many patients having inadequate responses to antimicrobial therapy. Skin biopsies of Morgellons patients reveal non-specific pathology or an inflammatory process with no observable pathogens, often with fibrous material projecting from inflamed epidermal tissue. Morgellons skin fibers appear to contain cellulose. This observation indicates possible involvement of pathogenic Agrobacterium, which is known to produce cellulose fibers at infection sites within host tissues. Methods: Skin biopsy samples from two Morgellons patients were subjected to high-stringency PCR testing for genes encoded by the Agrobacterium chromosome. Screening of the same samples for Agrobacterium virulence (vir) genes and T-DNA sequences in the patient’s genome was also performed. Results: PCR screening indicated the presence of Agrobacterium genes derived both from the chromosome and from the Ti plasmid, including the T-DNA, in tissues from both Morgellons patients. Conclusions: Our preliminary results indicate that Agrobacterium may be involved in the etiology and/or progression of Morgellons disease. If these results are confirmed, it would be the first example of a plant-infecting bacterium playing a role in human disease. Further testing is ongoing to validate this observation and to determine whether Agrobacterium not only resides in the infected areas, but also transforms them genetically.
January 14, 2007
Research update from Vitaly Citovsky, Ph.D.
Our continuing screen of additional Morgellons patients has identified Agrobacterium genetic material in three additional individuals. Thus, all Morgellons patients screened to date have tested positive for the presence of Agrobacterium, whereas this microorganism has not been detected in any of the samples derived from the control, healthy individuals.
The MRF has never concealed that 95% of the registrants were diagnosed with DOP, and have seen an average of 10-40 doctors. They’ve never concealed the various co-existing physical and mental conditions, either.
You apparently also process information in a different way from most people, and arrive at conclusions much differently, hughglydelusional.
I think we’ve all been aware of what appears to be Citovsky’s apparently recent involvement. I, personally, feel the same way as I do about every “professional” that’s involved themselves with “morgellons disease”.
Agrobacterium is found in soil, too. Remember, Nurse Savely said that a lot of morgies claimed to have been gardening prior to developing their skin problem.
Hugh, this is a totally unrelated story to “morgellons disease”, but, in an extremely remote way, in my opinion, holds some type of relevance. I’m disheartened that, due to the nature of this illness, “morgellons” patients don’t have advocates, or proxies, for their health care.
http://akmhcweb.org/Articles/NYTVoicelessDefenselessandaSourceofCash.htm
Hugh,
Human infection by Agrobacterium isn’t new. In the following link you will find several cases of septicemia and peritonitis caused by Agrobacterium.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8086552&dopt=Abstract
Although cancer cells have been programmed by Agrobacterium in the past, and human embryonic cells were programmed with Agrobacterium by Dr. Citvosky, a transfer of genetic information has never been found to have occurred in nature.
It’s quite easy to believe that Agrobacterium was found in Morgellons patients. The general public has eaten enough genetically modified food that one would think that Agrobacterium would be found in everyone. What I find ridiculous, and do not believe, is the lack of Agrobacterium in the non-morgellons control group. All I can say to that is, can you trust anyone working with the MRF. I think the answer is a firm, “NO!”.
Tall Cotton
Also…
If it were ever found that genetically modified Agrobacterium programmed human DNA, it would be a hugh success for the anti GMO camp. I think that proving such a thing would be a strong incentive for some aspiring scientists. Of course, it’s always better for for the researcher when he can accomplish his goals, whatever they may be, on grant money. Some people don’t care how long a group of sick Morgies chase their tails, as long as they get what they want for themselves.
Tall Cotton
Dear Gang of Three,
Thanks for your responses, I see you enjoy the repartee as much as I do.
Please dont confuse thick sarcasm and bad typing with ‘You apparently also process information in a different way from most people’, or I may feel as if your missing the point. I notice from your responses, many points were missed. Such can be the nature of robust discussion, often the responses are from the heart and the hip. But then there’s nothing wrong with spontenaity is there? As you clearly consider from that comment that I too am a profoundly disturbed person, I shall not restrain myself in the creative presentation of my opinions in the future.
When putting your collective - yet singular case - might I suggest you refrain from patronising your opponents.(http://akmhcweb.org/Articles/NYTVoicelessDefenselessandaSourceofCash.htm)
Whilst a valid technique in debate, the counter argument it draws of smokescreening the issue inevitably carries more weight.
Which, with just a mildly lateral thematic leap, leads us to the issue of Trust. The definitive political and personal issue of the 21st century. TC, in your statement ‘What I find ridiculous, and do not believe, is the lack of Agrobacterium in the non-morgellons control group.’ you associate your criticism of the scientific findings with the MRF, which does remain an organisation reluctant to operate transparently. However, to do so is wrong and implies the science has been corrupted by that association and there is no evidence to suggest that is the case.
Similarly the comment ‘Of course, it’s always better for for the researcher when he can accomplish his goals, whatever they may be, on grant money’ reveals a level of cynicism that in terms of debate, borders on petulant.
Summing up, I’m disappointed in the responses and hence the bickering. I’ll re-align the parameters of debate a little but throwing up some specifics for your ajudication.
1. Agrobacterium is a very well known component in the field of genetic engineering.
2. The GE industry has been established for at least 25 years, and in that time has grown exponentially.
3. Gene tranfer technology is recognised as an area of regulatory freedom due to an uncomprehending legislature.
4. Citovsky has a mass of published work in the area of agrobacterium and can be legitimatly regarded as an expert. He has also approached the NIH for a grant to investigate, as is the appropriate protocol under the circumstances.
5. Both human cancer and embryonic cells have been programmed by Agrobacterium. An example of this technology at work is The Cactus Project. This project endeavours to grow human hair from cactus plants using agrobacterium as a genetic vector. see; ( http://www.thecactusproject.com/research.asp).
5. The ‘mental conditions’ co-existing with Morgellons registrants can also be attributed to both flawed statistical research by the MRF and a secondary condition related to incorrect assessment of the primary ailment.
Thank you, thank you very much,
Hugh
‘ Who’s to say
What’s impossible
Well they forgot
This world keeps spinning
And with each new day
I can feel a change in everything
And as the surface breaks reflections fade
But in some ways they remain the same
And as my mind begins to spread its wings
There’s no stopping curiosity…
…I want to turn the whole thing upside down
I’ll find the things they say just can’t be found
I’ll share this love I find with everyone
We’ll sing and dance to Mother Nature’s songs
This world keeps spinning and there’s no time to waste
Well it all keeps spinning spinning round and round and
Upside down
Who’s to say what’s impossible and can’t be found…’
Hugh,
We’re familiar with Agrobacterium and the methods of gene transfer. Agrobacterium has been used extensively, but regarding the programming of human cells, there’s no record of it ever taking place in nature. It may or it may not occur.
I agree that Citovsky is an expert, but he said, himself, that he didn’t think Agrobacterium would be a problem except possibly for some agricultural workers and genetic engineers. Of course, people can change their minds, even experts.
The reason I find it surprizing that Agrobacterium wasn’t found in the negative control, non-morgellons, group, is because of the extensive used of the organism in GM foods. Also, it’s a soil bacterium, and quite common. I also ask myself why Citovsky has waited this long to do pcr screening on Morgellons specimens. Hmm?
I heard about Citovsky applying with the NIH for a grant, and the first thing I thought of was the fact that Stricker was caught lying on a grant application in the past. I was wondering if he might have corrupted Citovsky, and maybe that’s the reason Citovsky has waited so long to do the pcr screening. There’s all kinds of possibilities.
The information in item #5 is correct, but the evidence points directly at DOP, and nothing else. That is, plus the fact that most of them have received that diagnosis several times. The group is quite vulnerable and easy prey for anyone that comes along wanting to exploit them.
Tall Cotton
What is DOP, anyway, and, gee-whiz, are there any conditions that cause it?
Hugh, note “The Seven Warning Signs of Bogus Science” in comment #24 (not to mention test subjects’ decision-making capacity and the ability to give informed consent, and so many assorted issues).
I’m sorry I don’t recognize you. What name did you used to post under? Since you’re unfamiliar with the history of “morgellons disease”, (not the 17th century version, but Mary Leitao’s on line introduction of it, in 2002), I hope providing this link can be of some assistance. In fact, how long have you been (un)familiar with this?
Enter the web address, morgellons.org and take your time exploring, in chronological order, how it was cultivated.
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
In all probability, morgellons is not an organism, per se, merely an auto immune response created by some catalyst. We do not really know, but nothing mitigates the pain and suffering this response from the body elicits.
We want it clearly understood that we feel utter disgust at the antics and verbose garbage that is spewed forth from those who wish to ridicule and lambast the suffering of those afflicted.
They are completely beneath contempt.
Sincerely
Al and Gillian
Australia.
Now, are we sure “morgellons disease” is not what this “OTHER well-respected doctor” says it is?
http://www.seektress.com/berkeley.htm
Didn’t he just get a letter from Senator Feinstein identifying him as a sufferer of this “NANO-NONSENSE” of his as well?
To think that patients going through all of this suffering is so much more preferable to making it stop is beyond belief.
It looks like one team would want all of their horses pulling in the same direction, if they really wanted the cart to move.
The opportunists’ dream, this is.
Morgellons symptoms are the symptoms of DOP. They’ve been around since the arrival of mankind. Modern day Morgies, on record, report having had their symptoms up to 32 years. This preceeds the use of nano machines and also the use of Agrobacterium for genetic modification. Morgies have, or had, a variety of health problems, and for many of them, their problems developed into DOP.
It’s possible that silicon and agrobacterium have harmed some people, but it’s also possible that this research is bogus, designed to cheat NIH out of grant money and exploit the people that believe they have Morgellons. Just think, 10,000 people willing to give everything they’ve got, just to be rid of something they don’t even have.
Tall Cotton
Huh? Dr. John Martin released today:
http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/view_press_release.php?rID=23911
I said, “Huh?” What I meant to say was, “WTF?”
About 24-7 Press Release:
http://www.24-7pressrelease.com/about_us.php?tf7sid=04e37b784a2864f474f6411e2962a7dd
It’s a stealth adapted virus. No, it’s high density polyethlene coated capsules. No, it’s nano machines. No, it’s Agrobacterium. No, it’s DOP.
Oh, now don’t forget dental sealants, and stenotrophomonas maltophilia!
Within comment #22, where I’d found the discussion concerning the time period that people began showing up on line searching for reasons & explanations, rather than treating what they were diagnosed with…
Well, I found the answer to my own questions about…
The Pre-Morgellons Disease Era:
http://www.headlice.org/news/2005/pdf/pr.pdf
OMG, check-it-out!!!
http://www.parasitetesting.com/
And don’t forget Collembola.
In Hindsight, I was lucky enough to read the posts from Fred a week or two ago before you deleted them. And even though I happened to agree with him, I couldn’t help but feel a bit sorry for you TC, I can only imagine how disturbing this must have been for you. I bring this up only to remind you to reflect on your words and jokes, because there are many that do not find them funny or even remotely amusing.
Southcity,
Only an idiot would agree with Fred. Don’t feel sorry for me, because I sure as hell don’t feel sorry for you. Although I don’t appreciate what Fred did, it has happened before. For your information I don’t let Morgies disturb me. It sounds to me like you are trying to blackmail me, so kiss my ass.
Tall Cotton
South,
I don’t know which jokes you are talking about, but very little of what I say is meant as a joke. I’ll admit, it sounds like a joke, but usually, I’m as serious as a heart attack. Get over it!!
Tall Cotton
South, would you like to tell me what you’re talking about? You actually feel that you have more of a right to freedom of speech, to spread your terrible message on to other sick people, than we do to speak? This is no place to come looking around, because the truth is told here. You know that.
Fred showed up, exaggerating things, a couple of weeks ago…
Topic: It’s The Fibers, Stupid
#146 fred Says:
January 24th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Topic: NPR Morgellons
# 296 fred Says:
January 26th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
We do not know this guy, Fred, but, as is so often the case, he feels that we have, somehow, done something to him. He came back even more indignantly, so some of those posts had to be deleted. ArtisUSA missed what had occurred with Fred, but felt compelled to comment on it. I don’t see anywhere that Tall Cotton joked, South. Since it bothered you, please present it to us. Better yet, don’t allow it to bother you. Why would it???
This is a l-o-n-g article, but worthwhile reading.
Hysteria Hysteria
By Margaret Talbot, New America Foundation
The New York Times Magazine | June 2, 2002
http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2002/hysteria_hysteria
I just now found this. So, after reading the above article, please read this one from the archives of “The Anomalist”.
Solving the Mystery Rash in Schools
by Sheila O’Leary*
http://www.anomalist.com/features/rash.html
http://www.skinparasites.com/ under “Sufferer Theories”:
Phorid Myiasis Theory of Delusions of Parasitosis (DOP)– by Sheila O’Leary, a longtime NUSPA USPI sufferer who has researched phorid flies and their possible connection to USPI extensively.
This interestingly sad situation isn’t new, and it was around before 9/11…”The Movement” to get the CDC to act, I mean, existed before Mary Leitao’s name of “morgellons disease”, and her MRF’s expansion of the qualifying symptoms, which culminated into the case defintion. People who think they have “morgellons disease” as anyone can look around and see, have gigantic lists of symptoms that are way off the charts from even her concocted case definition. There are a lot of sick people, with a lot of things wrong with them, that they need to straighten their minds out over, first, and foremost. “Need to”, but can’t, even, perhaps, just won’t?
Sheila O’Leary is delusional herself and she doesn’t have any business trying to teach people about USPI or DOP. The Phorid Fly theory is just another fantasy. It is not true! DOP has been around as long as mankind has, and it may not be quite as rare as once believed. It’s totally ridiculous when a Morgie acts as if they are an authority on the Morgellons problem, when they can’t even get in touch with reality.
Tall Cotton
Preferring being out of touch with reality, unless it’s pleasurable, is the incomprehensible thing.