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	<title>Comments on: Delusional disorders in dermatology: a brief review.</title>
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	<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/</link>
	<description>Resources for Morgellons investigators. Skeptical analysis and discussion.</description>
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		<title>By: Merc</title>
		<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/#comment-22792</link>
		<dc:creator>Merc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 22:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgellonswatch.com/?p=289#comment-22792</guid>
		<description>Richard, do you mean to say that your wife was formerly 120 lbs, and is now 90 lbs? Or that she was formerly 150 lbs, and is now 120 lbs?

I ask because I would think that that kind of involuntary weight loss would set off all kinds of alarm bells for a doctor. It could be a sign of diabetes, or heaven forbid, cancer. Have you made any physicians aware of this change in her weight?

You mention that she has other ailments and is taking pain medication. Is it possible that these other problems have caused her weight loss? Or do you believe the loss is caused by stress?

I guess I am a little confused by your post, because you say that doctors have told her that nothing is wrong - but if she is on a significant amount of pain medication, presumably at least the prescribing doctor believes that she is in some type of distress. Are you saying that these other doctors have told her that they don&#039;t understand the specific symptoms you describe here, or that they are an expression of other illnesses she suffers from? Or are you saying something else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, do you mean to say that your wife was formerly 120 lbs, and is now 90 lbs? Or that she was formerly 150 lbs, and is now 120 lbs?</p>
<p>I ask because I would think that that kind of involuntary weight loss would set off all kinds of alarm bells for a doctor. It could be a sign of diabetes, or heaven forbid, cancer. Have you made any physicians aware of this change in her weight?</p>
<p>You mention that she has other ailments and is taking pain medication. Is it possible that these other problems have caused her weight loss? Or do you believe the loss is caused by stress?</p>
<p>I guess I am a little confused by your post, because you say that doctors have told her that nothing is wrong &#8211; but if she is on a significant amount of pain medication, presumably at least the prescribing doctor believes that she is in some type of distress. Are you saying that these other doctors have told her that they don&#8217;t understand the specific symptoms you describe here, or that they are an expression of other illnesses she suffers from? Or are you saying something else?</p>
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		<title>By: Smileykins</title>
		<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/#comment-22777</link>
		<dc:creator>Smileykins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 06:04:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgellonswatch.com/?p=289#comment-22777</guid>
		<description>Richard, surely, if you meant what you said about thinking your wife is going to die, of starvation, if nothing else, you can convince her to see an expert to keep that from happening. Have you tried?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard, surely, if you meant what you said about thinking your wife is going to die, of starvation, if nothing else, you can convince her to see an expert to keep that from happening. Have you tried?</p>
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		<title>By: Smileykins</title>
		<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/#comment-22775</link>
		<dc:creator>Smileykins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 05:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgellonswatch.com/?p=289#comment-22775</guid>
		<description>Hello, Richard. I&#039;m sorry you and your wife have such a situation.  Is a lot of pain medication all that your wife has been prescribed for whatever the variety of other ailments are that you alluded to?  Did she have whatever those ailments are before seeing the over 35 doctors and specialists?  Do you feel it&#039;s a very good idea that she continues taking pain medicine when it doesn&#039;t even help her any?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, Richard. I&#8217;m sorry you and your wife have such a situation.  Is a lot of pain medication all that your wife has been prescribed for whatever the variety of other ailments are that you alluded to?  Did she have whatever those ailments are before seeing the over 35 doctors and specialists?  Do you feel it&#8217;s a very good idea that she continues taking pain medicine when it doesn&#8217;t even help her any?</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/#comment-22773</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Nov 2008 00:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgellonswatch.com/?p=289#comment-22773</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if Morgellons is real or not. I will tell you, however, that I have watched my wife suffer unbearably for the last two years. I have seen tiny lesions on her skin burst open with small crystalline type fragments about one-fourth the size of a bb, for those of you who remember how big a bb is.  It went from that to lesions inside her ear canals which have just about driven her out of her mind. She has lost over 30 pounds whichc is more than 25% of her body weight. She has lost the ability to concentrate on anything. She as had fibers erupt from her skin. Most of them, in her case, are red fibers about half the diameter of sewing thread and are either red or transparent. I don&#039;t know what her disease is. We have been to the Cleveland Clinic, the Mayo Clinic and many hospitals. We have seen over 35 doctors, including ENT&#039;s, rheumatologists, neurologists, dermatologists, general practitioners, and, yes, even a psychiatrist. Not a single one of them as prescribed any treatment whatsoever.  Some have told her there is nothing wrong, but most just say I don&#039;t know, and please pay me on the way out without even referring her to another physician. I know that if we don&#039;t get some kind of help, she is going to die, from starvation if nothing else. She is so consumed that she can&#039;t even eat. It is a very sad situation.

Personally, I believe it is either Morgellans or some other kind of disorder that is very real. My wife is a strong person mentally. She has a variety of other ailments which force her to take a lot of pain medication. But nothing helps relieve the pain and distress of her condition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if Morgellons is real or not. I will tell you, however, that I have watched my wife suffer unbearably for the last two years. I have seen tiny lesions on her skin burst open with small crystalline type fragments about one-fourth the size of a bb, for those of you who remember how big a bb is.  It went from that to lesions inside her ear canals which have just about driven her out of her mind. She has lost over 30 pounds whichc is more than 25% of her body weight. She has lost the ability to concentrate on anything. She as had fibers erupt from her skin. Most of them, in her case, are red fibers about half the diameter of sewing thread and are either red or transparent. I don&#8217;t know what her disease is. We have been to the Cleveland Clinic, the Mayo Clinic and many hospitals. We have seen over 35 doctors, including ENT&#8217;s, rheumatologists, neurologists, dermatologists, general practitioners, and, yes, even a psychiatrist. Not a single one of them as prescribed any treatment whatsoever.  Some have told her there is nothing wrong, but most just say I don&#8217;t know, and please pay me on the way out without even referring her to another physician. I know that if we don&#8217;t get some kind of help, she is going to die, from starvation if nothing else. She is so consumed that she can&#8217;t even eat. It is a very sad situation.</p>
<p>Personally, I believe it is either Morgellans or some other kind of disorder that is very real. My wife is a strong person mentally. She has a variety of other ailments which force her to take a lot of pain medication. But nothing helps relieve the pain and distress of her condition.</p>
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		<title>By: Merc</title>
		<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/#comment-22316</link>
		<dc:creator>Merc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:25:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgellonswatch.com/?p=289#comment-22316</guid>
		<description>Also, I&#039;m not sure if anyone has posted the link to the Mayo clinic page on Morgellons. I thought it was very helpful:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/morgellons-disease/SN00043

If you believe you suffer from Morgellons, then that implies two possibilities:

- You suffer from a curently unrecgonized illness who contagiousness, morbidity, and mortality are poorly understood.

- You suffer from some type of mental condition that causes you to falsely believe you have Morgellons. You may also have some other type of illness which causes skin problems. 

In EITHER of these cases, you are going to need to work with compassionate doctors on an ongoing basis to get to the bottom of the matter. You need as much support as you can get going through something this difficult. If possible, find a therapist to deal with any issues you have. I mean, either option is pretty scary - either you&#039;re infested with something unknown, or your senses are deceiving you. A therapist can help you sort this out.

I&#039;d also like to say that having a delusion about your skin does not mean you are crazy. Some very brilliant people have severe OCD, to the point that they are disabled. That doesn&#039;t mean they are raving lunatics - it means they need treatment for that particular disorder. OCD was not well understood in the 70s, and people with severe cases were accused of malingering, hypochondria, hysteria etc. Now it appears that other types of illnesses, such as anorexia nervosa, may also be expressions of OCD. The good news is that there are good drugs on the market now to control OCD.

Stay healthy, everyone!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I&#8217;m not sure if anyone has posted the link to the Mayo clinic page on Morgellons. I thought it was very helpful:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/morgellons-disease/SN00043" rel="nofollow">http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/morgellons-disease/SN00043</a></p>
<p>If you believe you suffer from Morgellons, then that implies two possibilities:</p>
<p>- You suffer from a curently unrecgonized illness who contagiousness, morbidity, and mortality are poorly understood.</p>
<p>- You suffer from some type of mental condition that causes you to falsely believe you have Morgellons. You may also have some other type of illness which causes skin problems. </p>
<p>In EITHER of these cases, you are going to need to work with compassionate doctors on an ongoing basis to get to the bottom of the matter. You need as much support as you can get going through something this difficult. If possible, find a therapist to deal with any issues you have. I mean, either option is pretty scary &#8211; either you&#8217;re infested with something unknown, or your senses are deceiving you. A therapist can help you sort this out.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also like to say that having a delusion about your skin does not mean you are crazy. Some very brilliant people have severe OCD, to the point that they are disabled. That doesn&#8217;t mean they are raving lunatics &#8211; it means they need treatment for that particular disorder. OCD was not well understood in the 70s, and people with severe cases were accused of malingering, hypochondria, hysteria etc. Now it appears that other types of illnesses, such as anorexia nervosa, may also be expressions of OCD. The good news is that there are good drugs on the market now to control OCD.</p>
<p>Stay healthy, everyone!</p>
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		<title>By: Merc</title>
		<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/#comment-22315</link>
		<dc:creator>Merc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgellonswatch.com/?p=289#comment-22315</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Gillian.

I take it that you believe you have Morgellons? Would you be willing to share more information with me?

- What symptoms do you exhibit?
- Are close family members and friends able to see the symptoms you describe?
- How many doctors have you seen, and in what specialties?
- Have you received any diagnoses?
- Do you have a microscope, or have you documented any of your illness?

The itching you describe sounds terrible. As this site has documented, there are literally over 1,000 known reasons why people can itch, and presumably some unknown reasons as well. Have you consulted a dermatologist to deal with this symptom? I don&#039;t know much about skin disorders, but I&#039;m sure there are a number of treatements to deal with &quot;idiopathic itching.&quot; 

Finally, are you able to keep yourself from scratching to the point you break the skin, or is the itching too intense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Gillian.</p>
<p>I take it that you believe you have Morgellons? Would you be willing to share more information with me?</p>
<p>- What symptoms do you exhibit?<br />
- Are close family members and friends able to see the symptoms you describe?<br />
- How many doctors have you seen, and in what specialties?<br />
- Have you received any diagnoses?<br />
- Do you have a microscope, or have you documented any of your illness?</p>
<p>The itching you describe sounds terrible. As this site has documented, there are literally over 1,000 known reasons why people can itch, and presumably some unknown reasons as well. Have you consulted a dermatologist to deal with this symptom? I don&#8217;t know much about skin disorders, but I&#8217;m sure there are a number of treatements to deal with &#8220;idiopathic itching.&#8221; </p>
<p>Finally, are you able to keep yourself from scratching to the point you break the skin, or is the itching too intense?</p>
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		<title>By: Gillian</title>
		<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/#comment-22313</link>
		<dc:creator>Gillian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 12:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgellonswatch.com/?p=289#comment-22313</guid>
		<description>Hello Merc,

What a great post, &amp; thank you for your good wishes.

The itching was so intense for me even with no lesions present, a general anaesthetic may have eased the discomfort.  

Morgellons, I believe, is a new disease.  Morgellons incorporates many different diseases, both physical &amp; mental.  The mind &amp; body are one.  

These links are for the Morgellons Support Forums I go to, should anyone be interested.  No hurt here.

http://morgellonsfree.proboards81.com/index.cgi?board=general&amp;action=display&amp;thread=66&amp;page=3

http://morgellonsgroup.proboards23.com/index.cgi


Take care.
Gill</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Merc,</p>
<p>What a great post, &amp; thank you for your good wishes.</p>
<p>The itching was so intense for me even with no lesions present, a general anaesthetic may have eased the discomfort.  </p>
<p>Morgellons, I believe, is a new disease.  Morgellons incorporates many different diseases, both physical &amp; mental.  The mind &amp; body are one.  </p>
<p>These links are for the Morgellons Support Forums I go to, should anyone be interested.  No hurt here.</p>
<p><a href="http://morgellonsfree.proboards81.com/index.cgi?board=general&#038;action=display&#038;thread=66&#038;page=3" rel="nofollow">http://morgellonsfree.proboards81.com/index.cgi?board=general&#038;action=display&#038;thread=66&#038;page=3</a></p>
<p><a href="http://morgellonsgroup.proboards23.com/index.cgi" rel="nofollow">http://morgellonsgroup.proboards23.com/index.cgi</a></p>
<p>Take care.<br />
Gill</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/#comment-22310</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 20:39:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgellonswatch.com/?p=289#comment-22310</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Given the mental state of many sufferers, I find it shocking and revealing that none of these forums give any support to those who might be delusional.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

 WARNING!!!!!

 DON&#039;T try to make that suggestion on a Morgellons forum. You&#039;ll immediately be blasted with curse-words, called names, your mother called names, &amp; be accused of being a &quot;paid spreader of disinformation&quot; (whoever they are). 

 Trust me. That&#039;s EXACTLY what happened to me when I made a post that didn&#039;t agree 100% with their outlandish theories.

 I have noticed the same thing. Many Morgellons sufferers ALSO suffer from quite obvious mental conditions, probably brought upon them by their extreme obsession with proving they, and every single person &amp; animal around them, have a nonexistent disease.

 It&#039;s a very sad situation, especially considering the fact that the people who claim they have the disease, have completely shut themselves off from any type of outside diagnoses, help, or treatment.


 Bill......I hope that you DO have some hard, scientifically studyable evidence like you claim you might. I hope that what you have doesn&#039;t resemble the hundreds of pieces of &quot;evidence&quot; that the Morgellons community has already distributed.

 But I visited that site &amp; there is currently NOTHING there except advertisements. So until I see something new &amp; convincing there, I&#039;ll have to file it under the normal excuse given by the Morgellons community when asked to present good evidence......&quot;Trust me, it&#039;s real. I saw critters crawling out of my friends skin. But she wouldn&#039;t let me take any pictures. So just trust me.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Given the mental state of many sufferers, I find it shocking and revealing that none of these forums give any support to those who might be delusional.</p></blockquote>
<p> WARNING!!!!!</p>
<p> DON&#8217;T try to make that suggestion on a Morgellons forum. You&#8217;ll immediately be blasted with curse-words, called names, your mother called names, &amp; be accused of being a &#8220;paid spreader of disinformation&#8221; (whoever they are). </p>
<p> Trust me. That&#8217;s EXACTLY what happened to me when I made a post that didn&#8217;t agree 100% with their outlandish theories.</p>
<p> I have noticed the same thing. Many Morgellons sufferers ALSO suffer from quite obvious mental conditions, probably brought upon them by their extreme obsession with proving they, and every single person &amp; animal around them, have a nonexistent disease.</p>
<p> It&#8217;s a very sad situation, especially considering the fact that the people who claim they have the disease, have completely shut themselves off from any type of outside diagnoses, help, or treatment.</p>
<p> Bill&#8230;&#8230;I hope that you DO have some hard, scientifically studyable evidence like you claim you might. I hope that what you have doesn&#8217;t resemble the hundreds of pieces of &#8220;evidence&#8221; that the Morgellons community has already distributed.</p>
<p> But I visited that site &amp; there is currently NOTHING there except advertisements. So until I see something new &amp; convincing there, I&#8217;ll have to file it under the normal excuse given by the Morgellons community when asked to present good evidence&#8230;&#8230;&#8221;Trust me, it&#8217;s real. I saw critters crawling out of my friends skin. But she wouldn&#8217;t let me take any pictures. So just trust me.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Merc</title>
		<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/#comment-22306</link>
		<dc:creator>Merc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 22:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgellonswatch.com/?p=289#comment-22306</guid>
		<description>Hi. I recently read an article on Morgellons in Self magazine. I have a morbid interest in bizarre diseases, but this was the first I&#039;d heard of Morgellons. The Self article leaned towards the view that it is indeed a new disease, and I wanted to know more. 

I&#039;ve spent the past few days looking at &quot;official&quot; Morgellons websites, photos of fibers, videos taken by sufferers, and most disturbingly, online support forums.

It is very clear that even if Morgellons is a true skin condition, many people who believe they suffer from it are mentally ill. I hate to say this, but I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve yet seen anyone who claims to suffer from the disease who sounds rational. People post that these fibers crawl out of their ears and dance on their pillows, keeping them up all night; that the fibers are nano-robots created by the government; that they are being innoculated by alients; etc.

Given the mental state of many sufferers, I find it shocking and revealing that none of these forums give any support to those who might be delusional. This seems incredibly irresponsible to me, *especially* if you really believe in Morgellons. Wouldn&#039;t you want to differentiate between people who actually suffer from the disease and those falsely believe they do? Presumably the people who are mentally ill should be urged to get appropriate treatment.

I&#039;m also stunned at how much uncritical attention this disease has gotten from the media. It&#039;s heartbreaking to read about people who believe it&#039;s spread to their pets and children. Presumably at least some of these people are abrading the skin of these innocent victims.

So, first I&#039;d like to suggest to people who believe they have Morgellons: perhaps you do have a currently unrecognized disease. However, given that so many people who think they have it suffer from mental illness, perhaps you can be open to the idea that you might suffer similarly? There are uncaring, arrogant doctors out there, no question. But if a doctor has said you have a delusion, why not at least try the idea on for size? A doctor who believes you have a delusion should still have a treatment program. Perhaps this treatment will bring you the relief you need. If not, you&#039;re not likely to be any worse off than you are now.

Second: I don&#039;t think this has been mentioned on this site before, so I&#039;m going to bring this up: when tissues HEAL, they often ITCH. So if you have open lesions, they will probably itch regardless of what else is going on. If you are picking at lesions / extracting fibers / bleaching them, etc, why don&#039;t you try leaving some section of your skin alone, or covering them with any kind of sterilized bandage. See if these heal normally.

Finally, I really hope that everyone who suffers or believes that they suffer from this disease is helped. It sounds incredibly distressing. My heart goes out to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi. I recently read an article on Morgellons in Self magazine. I have a morbid interest in bizarre diseases, but this was the first I&#8217;d heard of Morgellons. The Self article leaned towards the view that it is indeed a new disease, and I wanted to know more. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve spent the past few days looking at &#8220;official&#8221; Morgellons websites, photos of fibers, videos taken by sufferers, and most disturbingly, online support forums.</p>
<p>It is very clear that even if Morgellons is a true skin condition, many people who believe they suffer from it are mentally ill. I hate to say this, but I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve yet seen anyone who claims to suffer from the disease who sounds rational. People post that these fibers crawl out of their ears and dance on their pillows, keeping them up all night; that the fibers are nano-robots created by the government; that they are being innoculated by alients; etc.</p>
<p>Given the mental state of many sufferers, I find it shocking and revealing that none of these forums give any support to those who might be delusional. This seems incredibly irresponsible to me, *especially* if you really believe in Morgellons. Wouldn&#8217;t you want to differentiate between people who actually suffer from the disease and those falsely believe they do? Presumably the people who are mentally ill should be urged to get appropriate treatment.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also stunned at how much uncritical attention this disease has gotten from the media. It&#8217;s heartbreaking to read about people who believe it&#8217;s spread to their pets and children. Presumably at least some of these people are abrading the skin of these innocent victims.</p>
<p>So, first I&#8217;d like to suggest to people who believe they have Morgellons: perhaps you do have a currently unrecognized disease. However, given that so many people who think they have it suffer from mental illness, perhaps you can be open to the idea that you might suffer similarly? There are uncaring, arrogant doctors out there, no question. But if a doctor has said you have a delusion, why not at least try the idea on for size? A doctor who believes you have a delusion should still have a treatment program. Perhaps this treatment will bring you the relief you need. If not, you&#8217;re not likely to be any worse off than you are now.</p>
<p>Second: I don&#8217;t think this has been mentioned on this site before, so I&#8217;m going to bring this up: when tissues HEAL, they often ITCH. So if you have open lesions, they will probably itch regardless of what else is going on. If you are picking at lesions / extracting fibers / bleaching them, etc, why don&#8217;t you try leaving some section of your skin alone, or covering them with any kind of sterilized bandage. See if these heal normally.</p>
<p>Finally, I really hope that everyone who suffers or believes that they suffer from this disease is helped. It sounds incredibly distressing. My heart goes out to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://morgellonswatch.com/2008/08/21/delusional-disorders-in-dermatology-a-brief-review/#comment-22284</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 03:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://morgellonswatch.com/?p=289#comment-22284</guid>
		<description>Gillian,

No, it is real.  Every symptom you have described I have documented in digital photos and videos, and digital microscopic photos and videos.  So much of Morgellons has not been researched or documented that I guess that gives credence to this site and its unfathomable motivation.

I will have many photos, videos, theories and conclusions published on www.morgellonsrevealed.com in the next few weeks.  I am hopeful that what I have documented will be the start we need to get some professionals to take it to the next level and get some help.

Hold fast.

NashBill</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gillian,</p>
<p>No, it is real.  Every symptom you have described I have documented in digital photos and videos, and digital microscopic photos and videos.  So much of Morgellons has not been researched or documented that I guess that gives credence to this site and its unfathomable motivation.</p>
<p>I will have many photos, videos, theories and conclusions published on <a href="http://www.morgellonsrevealed.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.morgellonsrevealed.com</a> in the next few weeks.  I am hopeful that what I have documented will be the start we need to get some professionals to take it to the next level and get some help.</p>
<p>Hold fast.</p>
<p>NashBill</p>
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