I sometimes compare Morgellons with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, since they share many of the same symptoms.
CFS took a while to be recognized as a disease (and there is still much debate), since it’s just a collection of common symptoms that the sufferers feel. There is no real physical manifestation of the disease, which makes it hard to test for, since you just have to rely on verbal reports from the patient.
In this respect, Morgellons has a vast advantage over CFS when it comes to being recognized as a disease. Not only do sufferers have lesions on their skin, but most importantly, they have something entirely new to science, something so unusual that finding it immediately settles the diagnosis, since only Morgellons has this symptom.
It’s the fibers.
That’s really all that makes this proposed disease special. The fibers are the key to the whole matter. That is ALL that is needed to establish this as a new disease – you can work out the details of the other symptoms later, but if you simply establish that people are producing fibers, then you’ve proven your case.
The OSU team claim they could see fibers under the skin within 45 seconds. What exactly is the problem here. Can’t they just take a video and show us what they see? Why did they not do this when CNN was there for two days?
It’s very easy. All this talk about Morgellons vs. Delusions is a red herring. Fibers are real objective evidence, nothing to do with delusions. Just show the fibers coming out of the skin and you’ve made your case.
Wymore says he’s personally convinced, but he can’t get enough interest to persue it effectivly as other people think the patients are delusional.
Well, there’s a very simple way of proving that something new to science is going on, which is sure to get people excited.
It’s the fibers, stupid!
The Morgellons Research Foundation
That’s an excellent article, Smileykins. And, as you know, if an individual is “seeing” parasites that aren’t really there, the name of their medical condition isn’t Delusions of Parasitosis. It then becomes Illusions of Parasitosis.
I agree with the information on Michael new topic, as long as the fibers they are seeing aren’t really muscle fibers, nerve fibers, fibroblasts, or some other normal part of the body. Of course we know that most of them look just like clothing fibers.
You strike me as being intelligent and a member of the medical community. Your postings make a lot of sense. But when you call people who disagree with you, “stupid,” it speaks to your blind arrogance. This does not surprise me in an era when physician-patient relationships have been reduced to two-minute provider-client spots in the name of saving money on health-care costs.
Michael has said, a number of times, that he’s not a member of the medical community.
It’s obvious that your reading comprehension isn’t very good. Michael states that the Morgellons Case Definition is similar to that of CFS. And the implied question is, what makes the alleged Morgellons Disease different? It’s the fibers, stupid! Now, that doesn’t seem to me to be directed at a Morgie. If it were directed at anyone, it would be directed at someone that doesn’t know about the alleged “growing” Morgellons Fibers. I don’t think that would be a “Morgellons” patient. Get a grip!
Now, let’s not take Michael’ topic title out of context. Cutmeabreak, your views of the medical community are tainted. They aren’t the gods morgie people think they should be. They’re people with jobs, just like everyone else.
This is plain STUPID though. Unless you have something the matter with you and can’t face it.
In that article Michael posted the link to yesterday…
“See, the people who don’t want to discuss this, they just say, ‘We don’t grow red and blue fibers.’ To a certain extent, it’s a little bit of that Earth-is-flat mentality,” Dr. Wymore said. “But how many people are open to self-change? [Morgellons] is almost as difficult to wrap your mind around as trying to convince someone to change religious views. Think about it: How often does that work?”
Unless a person is really screwed in the head, they should not be obsessing over fibers on, or in, the skin. I don’t care where they are, what color they are, where they came from, what size they are, if they’re in lesions, if they’re “sprouting”, or whether they’re embedded in the stratem corneu…there is nothing wrong with that.
That PhD who’s working on it and the entire rest of the MRF is a messed up, mixed up, crew!!!
People’s states of mental health are exploited and this is making them a lot worse.
Whoops. I had a sentence saying to add that lone “m” up there to the above typo, with an arrow pointing to it, and the sentence disappeared just like magic.
Cutmeabreak, I’m sorry you misunderstood. In American vernacular, there is a usage referred to as “comma stupid”, which is not actually intended to call someone stupid, but instead to draw attention to the obviousness of what should be the sole focus of attention. This usage was popularized by Bill Clinton in 1992 with his famous “It’s the economy, stupid!” slogan, and has recently been revived by his wife with “It’s the American dream, stupid”.
So, I’m not calling anyone stupid, it’s just a figure of speech.
I’m not a member of the medical community either. I’m a retired computer programmer.
Really, though, Cutmeabreak?
“This does not surprise me in an era when physician-patient relationships have been reduced to two-minute provider-client spots in the name of saving money on health-care costs.”
Are you exaggerating that, “two-minutes”? I’m on Medicare, myself.
I asked a question of logic, and the section called “this” where I posted was dropped. This means that the blogger does not want to deal with questions that demonstrate his stupidity. The next step is that I will be barred from this blog. they will say that they don’t want disparaging comments in these threads. Yet the whole blog disparages uwe victims, because it accuses us of effectively making this disease up.
David, you misunderstand how the blog works. The front page only shows the most recent 10 posts, the others drop off the bottom and can be found in the archives (see left sidebar).
The “this” post you refer too is still there, with your question answered, at:
If you click on the title of a post you can get a direct link to it. Otherwise you can find it via search, or by looking in the archives. There are currently 62 posts, and 2,395 comments.
You also don’t have to post the same thing in multiple places. I will see it wherever you post.
David, you are mistaken. No on-topic posts have been deleted from this blog, they are all available to anyone who cares to look for them. There was a spate of personal attacks (involving people on both sides of the issue) which was deleted, but that was quite long ago and was irrelevant to the topic of this site.
Further, to my knowledge, no one has ever been banned from this blog, not even for the deliberate deception of using multiple ID’s to stage a “debate”.
This usage was popularized by Bill Clinton in 1992 with his famous “It’s the economy, stupid!” slogan
Just to expand on that …
George H. Bush was stumping on everything BUT the economy, in one so-called Town Hall meetings, when he was directly asked by a woman in the audience about the poor people in this country, he replied (paraphrased) “I don’t understand the question.”
That was when Clinton started using the “It’s the economy, stupid!” slogan.
It has since become part of the American vernacular, meaning “Let’s focus on what matters”.
In that context, which was how Michael intended it to be taken, it is perfectly applicable here.
Michael has been incredibly even-handed and patient managing this site. If you do not believe that, then please have a look at all the archived threads with all the irrational attacks on his character, none of which have been deleted.
July 25th, 2006 at 9:05 pm
Whoops. I had a sentence saying to add that lone “m” up there to the above typo, with an arrow pointing to it, and the sentence disappeared just like magic.
Don’t use arrows. I have just figured that out myself 😉
David, I’ve deleted the eight or so duplicate comments you added to other threads, since this is the only really active thread, and I understand you just did it in anger, thinking your post had been deleted.
I do not delete comments, unless they are spam, unintentional duplicates, or contain unusually violent personal attacks.
I’ve never banned anyone.
David, a while back someone on Lymebusters message board said that Michael had deleted a couple of their posts. That wasn’t true. They’re intact, right where they were, as well as re-posted on Lymebusters
If you click on the title of a post you can get a direct link to it. Otherwise you can find it via search, or by looking in the archives. There are currently 62 posts, and 2,395 comments.
Just for the record, it’s quite easy to find the original blog posts, but I don’t think the search function indexes the comments. I have tried a few times to search for specific phrases that I know I have posted, and got no results. However, if I take the time to look for the post I commented under, it is there.
So anyone searching for a specific comment needs to start first at the originating blog post. Don’t assume a comment has been deleted just because you can’t find it.
Morgies tend to jump to conclusions, and believe other Morgies who have done the same thing. When one false belief is rejected, several others often fall with it.
That is a generalization about morgies, TC, and an accurate one, based on all the written evidence on the internet. (I just added that, given the fact that some of them take generalizations personally.) Other than looking at their situations as to how it all started, you’ve just given another piece of excelllent advice to anyone that doesn’t have a total errosion in their thinking processes. That won’t help a die-hard morgie, as you well know.
There is no such thing as “morgellons disease”, but the manifestations of people’s other physical illnesses make it seem like their bodies are invaded. Their “specimens” look similar because all those waste materials are, in reality, similar.
It’s too obvious that the very essence of morgies’ existence is to accept everything wrong and reject everything else. There is a lot more going on with such people other than just believing in our topic of discussion What got them to the point that they’re trapped inside this horrifically false belief of “morgellons disease” is an idividual matter for each one of them, regardless of all the strong similarities to other people. They ought to know that, but they don’t know it on the right level of thinking that can help them. Fear, pain, hatred, lies, rejection, and all sorts of negativity reigns supreme in their lives. Whether they even realize it, they have to put the blame for all of that somewhere. They’re only looking at this on a superficial level and running off into the wrong directions with wild ideas. Listen to how many say they’d like to know what they did to deserve this. Notice how many say that they’re owed so much, from others, due to it.
That’s delusional thinking, right there, not to mention obsessive-compulsive.
And that’s an observation of my obsession with it, and not a diagnosis. Hehehe.
Sometimes people who disagree with us are stupid! Sometimes they’re just confused.
Anyone know of any published spectroscopy? A Raman spectrum would be pretty nice, and could likely be done with little sample prep, even in situ in a patient. The “fingerprint” spectra of any common industrial fibers would be pretty well conclusive. Also, chemical signatures of biological molecules would stand out in the spectra if the fibers were biological.
Regarding spectroscopy: the old news is:
pre 2006 Morgellons.org, and on current “symptoms” page.
Slightly more recent:
Science Update April 17 2006
And the latest news:
Sunday July 23rd, 2006, Chico Harlan, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Extra, Extra, Read ALL About It
Red and blue ones, too, and not industrial ones.
Well, maybe Blue Legs Aherah will enjoy hearing about that. They only turn blue when I rub them. Well… Quit rubbing them.
I’ve mentioned Morphea’s association with Late-Stage Lyme Disease before, too, but have a look at this woman, and read the entire article. I have seen quite a few morgie photos that look just her.
Whoops, “like” her.
Did you read the editorial note – interesting the different diagnoses between different doctors.
Oh yes. Hey, “Doc” Buckner was just on Coast To Coast. Did you notice in the “…Read ALL About It”?…..
Reactive perforating collagenosis is a rare genodermatosis with lesions appearing early in life after trauma, arthropod bites, folliculitis, or cold exposure. Acquired reactive perforating collagenosis occurs in adults and was first described in association with the renal disease of diabetic nephropathy. All forms of reactive perforating collagenosis share severe pruritus as a feature, and it is possible that the transepidermal elimination of collagen is simply a reaction pattern due to chronic rubbing or scratching in a subset of pruritic patients. Lesions have resolved when the pruritus was controlled.
Our patient is interesting in that he had a pruritic, erythematous eruption that predated the development of lesions consistent with acquired reactive perforating collagenosis, and there were numerous eosinophils in the biopsy specimen. His current medications are unlikely culprits. The pruritus and scratching may have lead to the acquired reactive perforating collagenosis.
Excerpt from one of Smileykin’s posts.
Acquired reactive perforating collagenosis has been seen in association with multiple disorders, which include diabetes mellitus, renal failure, hyperparathyroidism, liver disease, neurodermatitis, IgA nephropathy, periampullary carcinoma with jaundice, adenocarcinoma, and liver neoplasms. It is unclear whether acquired reactive perforating collagenosis is primary in these cases or is a reaction to scratching. Transepidermal elimination of collagen also has been reported in granuloma annulare, pseudoxanthoma elasticum, and chondrodermatitis nodularis helicis.
“Acquired” Reactive Perforating Collagenosis (not the rare genetic form), sounds like THE ONLY ALREADY KNOWN ABOUT DISEASE that this thing Wacky-Wymore and everyone is obsessing over and calling “morgellons disease”.
“The underlying cause is not known with certainty, but it is thought to be an abnormal response to superficial trauma, such as scratching. Papules have been reported following scratches, acne spots, and insect bites. Lesions of reactive perforating collagenosis have been experimentally induced in susceptible skin by scratching.”
“The childhood form is inherited. A number of affected families have been reported. The mode of inheritance is not clear. Reports of affected families reveal autosomal dominant and autosomal recessive inheritance as well as sporadic cases.”
Medical Care: Treatment of the lesions is often unsatisfactory; in many cases the lesions are self-healing, but usually recurrent.
* Anecdotal reports describe successful therapy with isotretinoin, allopurinol, doxycycline, UVB, and psoralen ultraviolet light A. Phototherapy is a good choice in patients with coexistent renal disease and associated pruritus.
* Topical steroids are usually not helpful.
* Emollients and systemic antihistamines seem helpful in controlling pruritus.
* The inherited form is not associated with any systemic complications.
* The acquired form occurs in patients with multiple medical problems, but whether the development of the lesions implies a poorer prognosis is unclear.
We all know that there is no link to the various skin disorders that caused a bunch of people to receive DOP diagnoses, to that dumb case definition Mary Leitao constructed and made her disease get larger with. (Did I say that right? Oh, ya’ll know what I mean.) All right, how long can “PhD” Wymore obsess over these red and blue collagen bundles (that he, and all the rest of MRF just don’t know about, for some odd reason), I wonder, before he finally figures them out? Then what? He’s going to move into researching an “already known skin disease”, Acquired Reactive Perforating Collagenosis?
I am sorry, Michael, I know you’d cautioned the other day when I’d posted a comment on EPS, which is another collagenosis, but if any person could be receptive to this, and to the fact that they aren’t carrying a ridiculous, made-up disease, I think it could only serve to help by knowing about it, and that there are red and blue fibers. The black ones are collagen also, of course. The people who have their minds made up, I know can’t give this any thouight, anyway.
I think it’s important that the Morgies understand that there are alternate explanations for what is taking place in their bodies. If they will open up to the possibilities, maybe they will give credence to what their doctors say, and understand that no one disease has to cover all of their symptoms. There are also alternate explanations to the presence of colored fibers besides theories that implicate these as pathogens.
Hey stupid, It’s your loving Ex poster here. Do not Fret; Do not be scared. For I have not come to do this. Behold what I quest for…..
What I really want to say is that I’m so stupid I can’t find on the MRF website the new and comment by Dr. wymore….can you please give me the hyperlink stupids?
Love you too.
I’m dubious about the ‘sulfur signal’ if they claim it is detected by FTIR. Maybe, but S would be more readily detected otherwise. But after having looked, I am interested to see more data. My scientific ‘spidey sense’ gets set off when there are more claims than data. Plenty of anecdotes exist, but at this point, a lot is claimed that isn’t carefully documented or measured.
Probably a cat’s whisker… Or, maybe sulfur that was used as a pesticide.It shouldn’t be hard to find sulfur in a Morgie’s skin.
A good question in the context of spectroscopy is “what contaminants has this sample been in contact with”.
The most common clothing fiber is cotton. Cotton is made of cellulose. The most common cotton dye is a sulfur dye.
So, the tests so far point to the fibers being sulfur dyed cotton.
Sulfur dyes are also used for cellulose based fabrics like linen and jute.
Many fibers can be quite absorbent, particularly cellulose based fibers such as kleenex tissue, and natural fibers like cotton. Artificial fibers like polyester can easily get coated in contaminants such as lotions, salts, antiseptics, or serus fluid.
And where do these fibers come from? Wymore says a lot of people send him fibers through the mail. Who knows what they have been through before getting to him.
I’m not against testing fibers, and the the results may well be indicative of something (like sulfur dyed cotton), but the contamination problem makes any results suspect.
Really what needs to be established first is: are these fibers coming out of the body? Then: are they being generated inside the body? That just needs some controlled observation.
Those observations would prove Wymore wrong, so he isn’t likely to make them. He isn’t trying to conduct scientific research. He’s trying to prove a ridiculous point. That can only be done with half-truths and lies. Deception is what this whole movement is about.
Exactamundo!!! Think how long PhD Wymore can keep obsessing and looking at fibers. I thought I’d fall out in the floor, when CNN showed him in that thrift shop collecting them with tape. Morgies think he’s the man, though.
The CDC has spoken, how many times, already, and told people who think they have such a thing, to go to their local health care providers? It seems problematic, to me, at least, that without patient data, the task force has nothing to go on. Again, just as morgies ignored their doctors, they’re also ignoring those instructions directly from the CDC, aren’t they?
Maybe, like with everything else, they need it spelled out more clearly? If the CDC is still in the organizing stages of an investigation, of course, I don’t know how they do such things, but it would seem that the best route to take would be through epidemiological studies through the believers’ local health departments. Wouldn’t they have to go to their doctors first, though, as instructed? We bascially know what such studies would yield, if such a step were to be taken, unnecessarily, not to mention the waste of money that is lacking to begin with throughout the country.
What am I missing? This hurts my head.
I know what I’m missing……”imagination”.
Well, buddy, you said a mouthful just then, didn’t ya.
If these are collagen fibers, why don’t they burn? Stick a butane torch to these fibers for several minutes and they do not burn, or even change color.
Greta, applying heat to fibers is a good test, one commonly used to get some gross metrics regarding a sample.
So those fibers you heated with a butane torch are not human matter of any kind, since a butane torch (even a cook’s torch) burns at at least 1000 degrees F, and can be up to 2800 F, (500-1500 celsius).
What fibers could withstand that? Asbestos. Some fiberglass. Carbon fiber. Silica fibers, some metals wires, ceramic fibers.
I don;t think there is a natural fiber (or any organically produced substance) that could withstand 1000 degrees for three minutes without change. This suggests it’s a man-made fiber of some kind.
Again – the real challenge is to prove that it came from inside your body. Its chemical composition is open to interpretation. Emerging from your body would be much more convincing and specific evidence.
Carbon would burn.
Diatoms make silica shells. Some scientist believe there is a possibility that there are even silica-based life forms in outer-space. Maybe some have landed.
My doctor recently found fibers partially embeded in my skin and removed them himself. He is saving them for the testing. He also will have be go to the lab for on-site fiber removal and testing. So the chain of evidence will be very tight.
Carbon fiber would not burn, nor would a ceramic fiber like Nextel.
Sounds like you got a bunch of fiber embedded in your skin, and transfered some to the doctor.
Fiberglass is likely. Nextel also has similar irritant properties.
What length, diameter, color were they?
Greta, from the written report of the fiber analyis you’d had done a couple of months ago, you’d had:
black wool fibers, red wool fibers, blue wool fibers, colorless wool fibers
colorless polyester fibers, a blue polyester fiber
colorless cotton fibers, blue cotton fibers
a pink acrylic fiber, and a green acrylic fiber
Do you have some other kind of fiber, now?
If what you’d tried to ignite was wool, it wouldn’t burn. Wool is a natural protein fiber that grows from the follicles of the sheep’s skin. It’s like human hair in that it’s composed of keratin-type protein. Chemically these proteins contain 5 elements: carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, and sulfur. These 5 elements are combined into 19 amino acids linked together in ladder-like polypeptide chains. Because wool contains moisture in each fiber, it resists flame without chemical treatment. Instead of burning freely when touched by flame, wool chars and stops burning when it is removed from the source of fire. Wool is self-extinguishing. It will not support combustion; this is why wool blankets are recommended for use in extinguishing small fires.
I’m sorry, Greta. I had missed that you’d kept the flame to it for several minutes with no change.
The fiber “analysis” was a visual identification only. These fibers were returned to me. I have not opened the package containing them. I could try to burn those exact fibers which were identified as: black wool fibers, red wool fibers, blue wool fibers, colorless wool fibers
colorless polyester fibers, a blue polyester fiber
colorless cotton fibers, blue cotton fibers
a pink acrylic fiber, and a green acrylic fiber.
Just because one person identified them visually, does not mean that is conclusivley what they are.
The thing that would rule out fiberglass and nextel fibers is the fact that the fibers under my skin DID NOT cause ANY inflammatory response! At all! Even after being in the same place for five days. If it was a forgien body, my body would have reacted with an inflammatory response. This was the most astonishing feature to my doctor. He kept saying, “this just makes no sense.” Do some research – any forgien body causes an inflammatory response. The fibers growing in my skin do not!
He said this both times he viewed the fibers growing in my skin:
“growing” was my doctor’s word. He said this because: he found some fibers under my unbroken skin on my thumb; he examined them with a 20x and 40x microscope lens; he made detailed notes and drawings of the fibers; carefully examined the area around the twisted bunch of fibers; then he taped up my whole thumb securely with many layers; had me return a couple of days later; removed the tape; examined the area and found several more fibers under the skin, in the area around the initial bunch, which was also still there, but appeared to be bigger. So, unless the fibers penetrated the many layers of tape, and my skin, without leaving a puncture wound, my doctor concluded that the fibers certainly appeared to be growing in my skin. He looked at me seriously and for the first time said, “Well, Greta, you do have fibers growing in your skin.”
This scared me because up to this point he had always said he had no reason to believe that the fibers were growing in my skin, he had always suspected that they were environmental fibers. I had always found comfort in his prior insistance that this was an illusion that the fibrs were coming out of me.
That’s certainly not a good thing to hear, that a psychiatrist alarmed their very own patient. I’m sorry he did that. Do you have any symptoms other than fibers embedded in your skin, Greta? Are the fibers in your epidermis, or are they in your dermis?
I was not really alarmed, as I had been telling him this since the begining. I was just taken aback that he confirmed it.
They appear to be just under the the very top layer of the skin.
I said the fibers do not burn, based on what other people said and posted pictures of. This was a mistake, as I know it inferred that I had personal knowledge of this. I did not say that I held a torch to the the fibers, but I let you believe I did by neglecting to quickly correct Smileykins statement that i had, “kept the flame to it for several minutes with no change.”
Tonight, I experimented with my own fibers, and contrary to my prior statement, they do seem to burn.
I apologize for misleading.
Greta, check out this site:
In order to get some kind of clue as to what your fiber might be composed of, you could see what it most closely matches in the first table there, note the: Action,Color,Special Note and Odor as in the table, and see what fiber is closest. That will tell you something out the underlying chemistry of the fiber.
Thank you, Greta, and not that it matters, now, but you’d neglected to “quickly correct” my statement?
Well, you totally missed that Michael had replied right underneath what you’d said about the burning of the fibers, or you would have corrected him quickly, and, then, I would have avoided having said anything at all.
Greta, applying heat to fibers is a good test, one commonly used to get some gross metrics regarding a sample.
So those fibers you heated with a butane torch…
It’s cool, and cleared up now, though, and that’s what communication’s all about.
Apparently there are a lot of theories circulating about this disease.
I have this disease and am very familiar with it.
I have examined these extracted fibers for years.
I can tell you my theory is very reasonable as to who caused this problem.
Its not lyme disease.
It has to do with the Textile industry. Although these fibers are non textile in origin.
They are comprised of cellulose, they are highly genetically modified fibers. They have genetically manipulated e-coli bacteria, nemotodes, chemicals, proteins and plant DNA and have developed ways to incorporate large amounts of these “high performance” bio active fibers into clothing and genetically modified the cotton plant many times over.
This research done at a handful of Universities then sold the technology to textile manufacturers here and abroad. These textiles can then be sold back to the United States from countries like China etc.
What you will read in this article is shocking to know what they were doing in the textile business. This was all done by consent of the Government via the National Textile Center, part of the United States Department of Agriculture.
Article#1 “Developement of bioactive fabric” use search box. http://www.ntcresearch.or/pdfrpts/AnRp00/m00-d03pdf
University of Dartmouth
Article#2 “Cotton fiber groth in Planta and in vitro. Models for plant cell elongationand cell wall biogenisis”. Hee jin kim and Barbara Triplet.
View second image box toward bottom in this article. View picture of fiber root in picture “A” and Trichrome picture “E”. Return to morgellons and compare fiber images. The trichrome is interesting as this is the same odd structure with three prongs protuding that is also removed from the body.
Between morgellons and what you will read in reference material you notice the following:
Both fibers from morgellons and from the agricultural labs have striking simalarities.
Both fibers are comprised of cellulose.
Both fibers have a helical coil type tendencies, this is a genetically modified trait that they admit to.
Both fibers autoflouresce as can easily be seen on both the morgellons site and on picture box #2 from the usda referrence image given. The autoflourescence is a genetically modified trait as well and can be seen in several colors.
This is due to genetically altered e-coli bacteria with flourescent componets spliced from nemotodes and other creatures that autoflouresce.
You read how GFP, (green flourescent protiens) were genetically spliced to accomplish this. As well as other autoflourescent colors.
The usda referrence article states clearly the fuzz ball growth problems in engineering as well as their lack of understanding how these fibers stop growing at certain lengths.
My theory is that this is a bio engineering mistake that has gone wrong and the full impact was not realized before sold to textile manufacturers.
These people had no idea what they were creating in these labs and the impact of those consequences on the public.
In my reading from the documents from the University of Dartmouth I found absolutly no trial testing of these fabrics on humans. The goal seemed to be to obtain funding, develope technology and then provide this technology to manufacturers.
I theorize the mode of transmission is via micro abrasion of clothing articles, particularly cotton to innoculate these bio active fibers into the body or via protien and oil digestive bacteria that were altered to perform that function, yet may be able to use this protien and oil breakdown to gain access passed the defences of the skin.
In my case I have noticed the majority of lesions are concentrated around the stitching on the inside of the fabrics like cotton t-shirts where the pieces are sewn together, that rope-like stitching. Also on clothing “wear points” like the shoulder blades and shoulders.
That is how I noticed the abrasion effect and the resulting innoculation of these fibers. Yet these lesions are not limited to the stitching ropes as sitting back in a chair can abrade these into the skin without you feeling it. Tight fitting levis do the same thing to the outer thighs.
Since they have admitted engineering lysine deficient e-coli bacteria for the purpose of controlling its growth once embedded in textiles and clothing this does not stop these bacteria/fibers from taking advantage of a non-stop supply of lysine in the human body if innoculated by abrasion or protien breakdown. Lysine is an essential amino acid of the body.
Here is just one shocking quote you will read:
Bio lab, University of Dartmouth.
“Clothing materials are generally biofriendly and sources of heat, moisture and even NUTRIENTS for cellular microdevices and all ARE AVAILABLE FROM THE HUMAN BODY”.
“Our goal is to develope fabrics that contain micro fabricated bio environments and biologically activated fibers”
I can go on and on with this. It will shock you no doubt.
I hearby name:
The National Textile Center, a division of the United States Department of Agriculture.
The Universities listed on the National Textile Center website involved with bio active fabrics, particularly the University of Dartmouth bio lab, year 2000 team group. As well as other Universities sharing this technology before and after this date.
AS THE ONES WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CREATION OF THIS BIO ENGINEERED MISTAKE AND ITS RECKLESS MARKETING INTO THE PUBLIC WHICH HAS NOW CREATED THE DISEASE CALLED MORGELLONS.
Contact your state Senator.
That is shocking. Thank you for not going any further with it. Now that we’ve all be warned, is it your hope that we can live in the same kind of fear that has you engulfed? Is that the message we are to receive from your comments?
I am sixty one years old and I believe it is quite simple to PROVE Morgellons IS alive in some sense of the word at least. How to prove it?
ALL Speed or Cocaine freaks know about this stuff. It has a name in the drug addict world – it’s called “Speed or Cokebugs.” Everyone who takes stimulants has either experienced or knows someone who experienced morgellons attacks.
But anyway – to PROVE it once and for all that morgellons is alive – simply take a stereotactic microscope – focus it on a lesion – then let the person shoot Speed and watch what happens. You won’t believe it.
I will warn you – when someone is loaded on speed, sometimes the fibers move so quickly they cannot be seen but what you WILL see is EVIDENCE OF THEIR EXISTENCE. Like when a mole tunnels under the ground – you don’t see the mole but you sure do see the earth being disturbed. I have watched lesions start to peel and sink in the middle and swell around the sides after I took Speed or Cocaine.
William Burroughs (Naked Lunch) wrote about it as his wife Anne suffered with it. Herbert Hunke (Guilty of Everything) wrote about it too. He didn’t call it morgellons but he describes it perfectly.
I am astonished to learn that straight people who are not addicts suffer with this also. I always believed it was an addict problem and that was why I couldn’t get anybody to care about it.
By the way – to the best of my knowledge – it appears that these things can’t even be burned. They will curl up in flame and turn into a dot of black – then later, unravel back to a hair.
Anyway, I have so much to say and think about all this. I guess this will do for now.
As for being crazy and imagining all this? I assure you – I would never be so lucky as to discover this was simply my imagination.
I only wish.
Take a video while you are on speed, and watch it later, that will provide the evidence you need.
oh by the way – just thought I’d mention that I’ve been clean twelve years now and rarely have an outbreak although I find about one or two lesions every couple of months. They seen to be mainly around my ankles. But anyway, compared to how I used to suffer – this is mild and I can deal with it.
One other very odd thing. I noticed that for some reason, the more one pays attention to these critters, the more active they become.
Perhaps it is the result of a small amount of adrenalin being released by the body or some other chemical messages that perhaps contain something that also effects the morgellons.
Don’t waste your time on morgellonswatch.com. This website is being paid for by the people responsible for spreading this disease/parasite/bacteria, whatever it is.
Factual information can be found at:
http://biology-online.org/biology-forum/about1958-3324.html (note that you scroll through the posts on the biology website by using the “GoTo Page…” in the upper right hand corner.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol9no2/02-0222.htm and here is more:
I just found out it is from the tobacco hornworm! This is the insect that the parasitoid wasp does a number on!!
I have been trying to tell you guys about the ricsettsia diseases, in which they now call all of them the Bartonellas:
Lice Join Ticks As Possible Disease Carriers
Scarred4life, congratulations, on your 12 year sobriety! You’d mentioned…
If you’re tuned into it, you’ll see that there’s an overabundance of prejudices existing within this group of “straight people” sufferers. I’ve yet to encounter any, in the past, who aren’t consumed with negativity, despite their efforts to deny it. How it all happened, to each, only they know. Would you mind viewing this link I’m providing, please (other than the fact that the things you have are “active”), and seeing whether any of it seems, at all, related to what you have? Thank you.
Michael, how did you initially become familliar with Morgellons?
I was just browsing through Wikipedia, and found the Morgellons page, which had a link to the MRF page.
How about you?
My son, then three, had been having stomach issues (black watery diarrhea, stopped eating dinner said “can’t feel good” often, pallor w/dark circles under eyes, lethargic, behavior problems in preschool). He looked and acted very sick. I had been back and forth to the pediatrician. Doc did a parasite test–neg. I thought maybe he was having food allergies???? I gave him an enzyme supplement made for kids (kidzyme). That night he broke out in an itchy rash all over his body. He was having an allergic reaction to something (enzyme?). Days later his rash had become bumpy. He would wake me at 3 – 4 am to “scratch his itchy back.” Hydrocortisone did not help. Then, I tried applying oil so that I did not damage his skin. As I scratched his back, the oil turned blue, and I was collecting blue fuzz under my nails. I freaked-out, but I never let him or anyone else know. I feverishly searched the Internet. When I Googled “fibers” and “parasites,” I found NUSPA. More searching and I found the MRF. My blue-fuzz legs incident occurred months later, but it was just like what I saw on his back. Judging from the manner in which my son presented this illness, it certainly looks as if it could actually be a parasite.
Wow, all this interest in a disease you only ever learned of from an incidental browsing of Wikipedia. And you, a “computer scientist” with all this interest in other people’s medical conditions, found debunking this illness 24/7 a productive and rewarding hobby. Now that’s weird.
Yes, it’s very suspicious. Obviously I must be working for someone, or perhaps I’m a dermatologist with a grudge? It’s quite inconceivable that some retired guy with leet googling skills and nothing better to do might happen to fall into doing this as a hobby for a few months.
I didn’t say “suspicious,” I said weird. One would think that you’d adopt a hobby in your area of expertise. Perhaps you’re not just a computer scientist? You are intentionally vague.
I’m a retired computer programmer. I’ve been programming computers for decades. I like investigating Morgellons in part because it’s different. I am vague only in areas involving my privacy, in all other areas I strive to be accurate and precise. I welcome corrections or request for clarification.
When I retire, the LAST thing I’ll want is a hobby related to my area of expertise.
I come in peace Marige. I just know that skeptics aren’t neutral. You have to “believe” something to be a skeptic. For one, you would have to believe any number of things other than the possibility that my son and I have some strange fiber-producing illness. You have to “believe” that I am one of those things that I said I am not. In this way, your beliefs are insulting to me. You believe in things of which you have no proof either. You just choose to believe in the lunacy of people rather than the adaptiveness of infectious organisms.
Aherah, as I’ve said many times, I’ve no idea what is wrong with you (or your son).
I believe in evidence based medicine. I believe in the science method. I believe that people should get appropriate health care.
I would be delighted if someone discovered a strange new fiber-causing disease, since it would mean the people who had that disease could be treated, and science would have something incredibly interesting to study. I’ve just not seen any evidence for the existence of such a disease. I’ve also seen a lot of evidence that suggests most people who claim to have “this” disease, actually have a variety of other problems.
At this time, science can’t answer all of the questions or else the Theory of Evolution would be known as the Fact of Evolution.
Many of us beleive that behind “the variety of other problems” lies the culprit, Morgellons, much in the way that they now know HHV6 causes cervical cancer. Among a number of authors, bioevolutionist Paul Ewald has written on this subject. In Sacramento, I know of one doctor who is successfully treating his arthritus patients with antibiotics.
But HHV6 does not cause ALL cervical cancer.
Absolutely Lousie, it does not. For those of us who know that Morgellons is real, how can we know that our other illnesses are not somehow being caused by it? This is a type of paranoia that accompanies the fear of the unknown. We know we have something; we just don’t know what it is doing to us. We feel as if it is behind the other medical conditions that our doctors are equally perplexed about.
Aherah, you believe that Morgellons (a new disease that produces) is the culprit behind a wide variety of symptoms, the problem is there is no evidence that supports this belief.
Aherah, did you apply oil and scratch your son’s back before he complained of itching?
If not, then what suggests the emerging fibers were in any way connected with his itching or other symptoms?
Michael, we’ve talked about this before too. Why is there no evidence? Because there has been NO RESEARCH.
No Michael, I absolutly cross-my-heart did NOT APPLY OIL BEFORE THE ITCHING. Rashes and itching came first, desparate attempts to relieve him came second. Over the course of two weeks, they helped. As I stated before, I’m not stupid. Stomach issues—diarrhea—rashes—fibers emerging. Gosh Michael, when you actually get your hands dirty, the evidence is pretty compelling. I have to go to Chuck E Cheese now or my kids will behead me for talking to you any longer.
I was not suggesting that the oil caused the itching. I was suggesting that the oil and the scratching were what produced the fibers.
I’m suggesting that the fibers may be benign, and would have emerged if you applied oil and scratched the same, even if your son was not sick.
I got interested in Morgellons from the Today Show and have been researching it. To those who are interested in learning things (like Michael) than why would this be a weird thing to turn into a hobby. I spend lots of time browsing the web pages of this blog. I have a full time job, internship, and school work to get done, yet it is fun to investigage new things. Especially a new “disease” cause by chemtrails, Evian water, and robotic wasps.
“Growing was my doctor’s word. He said this because: he found some fibers under my unbroken skin on my thumb; he examined them with a 20x and 40x microscope lens; he made detailed notes and drawings of the fibers; carefully examined the area around the twisted bunch of fibers; then he taped up my whole thumb securely with many layers; had me return a couple of days later; removed the tape; examined the area and found several more fibers under the skin, in the area around the initial bunch, which was also still there, but appeared to be bigger. So, unless the fibers penetrated the many layers of tape, and my skin, without leaving a puncture wound, my doctor concluded that the fibers certainly appeared to be growing in my skin. He looked at me seriously and for the first time said, “Well, Greta, you do have fibers growing in your skin.”
Michael, what’s your opinion on this. Do you believe that the professional that examined Greta was incorrect when he told her that she had ‘fibers growing in her skin’, or is it that Greta is lying to you?
That was Greta’s pro-bono psychiatrist speaking. Who knows what he saw, or what he intended by saying that?
People do have fibers growing in their skin, all kinds of them:
– Fungal hyphae
Greta also mentions in an earlier post that the doctor seemed baffled by the symptoms.
I didn’t notice her actually qualify that he was a psychiatrist, but if so, it is interesting that he did not draw an immediate conclusion of delusional parasitosis, given that this is his speciality.
Your point about fibers is taken -yet I don’t have fibers of the sort these sufferers are describing in MY skin. I’ll reserve judgement until the CDC conclude their investigation, rather than label these people outright deluded or self-harming. The news reports I have seen suggest something rather more substantial is going on here.
Yes, the news reports do suggest something more substantial is going on, and I think that’s part of the problem. People see those reports, and they self-diagnose, and they self-treat. All the while there is no evidence that “this” is what is causing their problems, and their real physical and mental problems go untreated.
If Greemas psychiatrist was a good psychiatrist, and he thought she had delusions, then he may have decided it was not the best approach to confront her with that diagnosis, perscribe meds, and send her on her way.
“While one should not say anything to confirm the delusion, it is usually not helpful to forcefully confront patients with DP.”
“It is pointless to argue with the sufferer as there is no way to sway them.”
You seem to be implying that if the doctor says it is delusional, then it actually is, but if the doctor says it isn’t delusional, then it actually is anyway.
I’m not implying anything. I’m saying things.
I’m saying that if her doctor thought she was delusional, then he might not tell her.
That does not imply anything else. I’ve no idea what is wrong with Greta.
I’ll say this, and I’ll say it without any reservation, that if a patient goes to a doctor presenting in such a way that the doctor’s diagnosis has been delusiona of parasitosis, and they’d thought the doctor was wrong….
They have delusions of parasitosis.
I base my opinion on the facts of the matter, and from reading too many accounts of such patients, as these, who think they have “morgellons disease”, I’d had a completely unbiased mind when I first delved into it, too, and have continued to be stunned. I became aware of something very much wrong in their thinking, long “before” ever learning the words “delusions of parasitosis” and seeing so many of them repeating the diagnoses they’d been given, and were angered by, all repeating the initials “DOP”.
If I am offensive, I’m sorry.
A lot of the Morgies have additional mental problems besides DOP. Some have DOP, BDD, OCD, MBP, ADD, ADHD, Schizophrenia, Depression, Anxiety, and/or various other letters of the alphabet. In addition to that, many of the Morgies have a heaping portion of the dumb ass.
In all fairness, I think due to the state-of-mind they’re in, that it “seems” as though they’re less than average in their cognitive abilities (but that, and such already previously-diagnosed-illnesses, which are relevant, has always been part of the made up “case definition”). This illness, the same as any other one, does not discriminate. It can happen to anyone, regardless of their level of intelligence. The things they believe, and their defense of so many of the hazardous customs they regularly engage in, and all the rest that we’re acutely aware of, all stemming from thinking that they’ve been “abandoned” by the medical community, is evidential to the condition they have in common.
“…many of the Morgies have a heaping portion of the dumb ass.”
Tallcotton, a lot of what you post here is right on the mark, but when you say stuff like this it totally blows any credibility you might have. How is it any different from our lovely friend MAF or any of the other offensive things “believers” say?
I realize you’ve had your “issues” with various Morgies and “morgellons” in general, so there’s a history there. However, if you toned down some of your insults a bit (or better, omitted them altogether) your words would have a hell of a lot more meaning.
Well, it happens to be true. I didn’t come here to be liked, and I didn’t say all Morgies are dumb asses. I did say many, and in my opinion that’s the truth. If the shoe doesn’t fit, leave it for someone else.
MHKS, with your having said that you didn’t know to describe dizziness to a doctor, stuggling with thinking you’d need to word it in some way that a doctor would understand, stating that you were certain that a lot of specific tests would be done if you mentioned it, may speak to some as a credibilty challenging comment on your behalf, as well
If it isn’t apparent that there are definitive deficits in the cognition of these patients, spend time on their many message boards and try to communicate with them.
It’s not about being liked, it’s about getting your message across. Why waste that message (which is a good one, in my opinion) by throwing in phrases like “dumb ass” which automatically cause people (both believers *and* non-believers) to close their minds?
But hey, it’s your message, not mine. Feel free to waste it.
“MHKS, with your having said that you didn’t know to describe dizziness to a doctor, stuggling with thinking you’d need to word it in some way that a doctor would understand, stating that you were certain that a lot of specific tests would be done if you mentioned it, may speak to some as a credibilty challenging comment on your behalf, as well”
I suppose it comes down to communication styles. My preference in trying to get stuff across to people is to not offend them by calling them names and maybe even adding in a little empathy. Furthermore, the dizziness post was an example I used to explain that sometimes people lack the words to describe their symptoms and subsequently feel frustration when they feel they’re not “listened” to. I know that a lot of these people have a history with their doctor(s) that speaks to the fact that much more is going on than just lack of the correct words, but that doesn’t change the validity of the post (especially since it was just one small point in reference to one of your posts). Sometimes it *is* hard to describe how one is feeling, both physically and mentally and in some cases, that might be *part* of the problem.
Hell, my credibility is certainly in question. I’m not a doctor, nor have I ever met anyone with “morgellons disease” in person (and that would be impossible, wouldn’t it, because I don’t believe it exists). That doesn’t preclude me from posting about what I observe here, and believe me, I can see the cognitive problems and “mental blocks” that exist here…on *both* sides of the issue.
Your bossiness upset me, MHKS, and then my dial up service got disconnected. Who gives a care about credibility issues, and calling anyone down on them, other than you? Opinions are opinions, and as far
as credibility goes, anyone believing that harmless little fibers pose a worldwide threat sort of says it all. Minds ought to be closed to that, but look at how they aren’t. It’s not very funny having this crisis on our hands, caring about people on such a downward spiral from not doing as their doctors advised. Many get so absorbed with it that they lose everything they ever held near and dear, as well as their own lives. They get on message boards and do outrageous things to their children, making them much worse, and don’t take them to a doctor. Michael’ credibility is well established on his blog, and anything said by anyone else is nothing more than their opinions.
I meant “definite”, not “definitive”, in that above comment.
Everyone is free to express themselves however they see fit. But you might want to consider what you are posting here for in the first place. Personally I’m trying to get balanced information out to people, and to raise reasonable questions about Morgellons. I want to help people, both sick people, and the people who live with them or care for them.
I think the best way of conveying this information, and raising these questions, is to be polite. It’s always possible to get an opinion accross without insulting people.
Politeness is the lubricant of dialogue.
Hey Smileykins, 9 times out of 10 I agree with both you and Tallcotton, regardless of your or my credibility. And that 10th time I don’t agree with you I would never dream of calling you a name and most of the time I wouldn’t even post unless it was something I felt important to point out.
But if everything you say about how awful morgellons is for people is true (and I really believe it is) then credibility (maybe for lack of a better word) *is* an issue. All it takes is a quick browse through this blog to see that morgellons sufferers are just looking for a chance to discredit the “non-morgellons” camp. And they are the ones we want to help, right? If the overall message is “go see your doctor and listen to what he says” (I’m simplifying it for the sake of time)and we say “go see your doctor, DUMB ASS, and listen to what he says” then aren’t we tarnishing the real, important message by risking someone writing us all off as at best mean and at worst, ignorant and mean-spirited? I’m sorry, but I think it does.
If I came off as bossy that wasn’t my intention but I can see why it might’ve sounded that way. And that isn’t a way to get my *own* message across.
No, I definitely didn’t come here to help any morgies. We’ve been there, we’ve done that, and we were overly sensitive to them. TC and I were very sickeningly sweet mannerly, handling them with kid gloves because you had to, to try reaching any possible way of communicating. Many such people will jump you without any provocation whatsoever. We went out of our ways to try being assistive, and Patti, one of the moderators from Lymebusters, unless time has gotten to her, could vouch for that. She often thanked us. I recently learned that another moderator, Ant, while being wonderful to me online, suspected that I was a drug user. I’m disabled, nearly paralyzed, and spend a lot of sleepless nights, in pain. They’ll make you lose your own mind after awhile, like the one that came here shortly after we did just to stir things up. That one, I’d really tried to help, once upon a time, mother-tp-mother. It all fell on deaf ears, blind eyes, whatever. When I first arrived in here in April, morgies weren’t the intended audience, and trying to change their minds was understood. I posted here hoping to reach those in a decisional stage, only. Things have evolved since then. Excuse me, immensely.
TC had said, ” many have heaping portion of the dumb ass”.
You translated into “your own thing”, MHKS, of “go see your doctor, DUMB ASS, and listen to what he says.” and say you weren’t bossy, too, if that makes you feel better.
“They’ll make you lose your own mind after awhile, like the one that came here shortly after we did just to stir things up. That one, I’d really tried to help, once upon a time, mother-tp-mother. It all fell on deaf ears, blind eyes, whatever.”
Smiles, are you talking about me? If so, I think you should manage your memories better. I once respected you, but I never sought-out your advice. If you look back at the lymebusters’ old posts, you’ll notice that I refrained from becoming involved where you were. You see, I knew early on that you really wanted people to do what/believe all you said, and, as I stated before, I follow no one, never have. I suspect that the problem you really had with lymebusters was the fact that eveyone wasn’t deferring to you as the sort of queen matriarch you so wanted to be. I can see you don’t take thoughtful, respectful, criticism here well either. That’s too bad. I did try to help you understand.
I’m sorry you “lost your mind.”
They know who they are, anyway. the ones reading here, “with the heaping portions”. This is more important to them than maintaining loving relationships, and I think TC and I have counseled way too many of them on it, too. The very idea, being so resistant, so consumed, so driven, that the “only” thing that matters is
getting someone to believe they’re infested with fibers & morgie creatures. If their spouses try to suggest getting help, oftentimes, well, there goes the marriage, right down the tubes. Kids are removed from the home, jobs are lost, pets are neglected to the point of death, and then, they bemoan about “morgellons disease” having caused those poor animals’ deaths. It causes everything. Many of these people lose it all, according to them, because of “morgellons disease”. I’ve never said anything here, as I don’t think TC has, either, looking for any recognition of our credibility. It’s been those morgies that have not wanted “their disease” exposed, that have come here to try to attack us, after we’d left that cult. We’d tried to help, there, and that was the only reason for our membership. These horror stories are all available for viewing, at anyone’s leisure. I don’t need anyone to take my word for it.
I’m not playing with you anymore.
Antidepressants as antimorgellons
« Thread Started on Jun 6, 2005, 1:03am »
« Reply #14 on Jun 9, 2005, 11:26am »
Anyone else that you can get to can.
I think it is important for the people who are still on the fence with respect to believing in Morgellons, to have a clear understanding that the Morgies have lost it. I think everyone knows what “lost it” means, and I don’t say things I can’t back up. I was told when I came here that the confirmed Morgellons believers were not the designated target, due to the fact that it’s next to impossible to talk one out of his foolish beliefs. If someone decided to change the mission statement of this blog, I’m just now hearing about it. People usually don’t like to be a part of a group of people that are Considered to be dumb or crazy. I think the prospective Morgellons believers have a right to the unvarnished truth, and it is true. For the most part Morgellons believers are both dumb and crazy. If they don’t like for people to believe it, then they need to get their shit together. Please don’t misunderstand me. If there are rules or administration policies, I’ll try to abide by them, and if I get tired of it, I’ll take my smart ass somewhere else. And Aherah, you’re not telling the truth. You’re pretty bad about that.
There are no rules here, you can say whatever you like. But name calling is not “the unvarnished truth”. It’s a simplification that can easily be misunderstood as rancor.
“And Aherah, you’re not telling the truth.”
Look here, Smiles said:
“We’d tried to help, there, and that was the only reason for our membership.”
Bugs Alive (tall cotton) was an avid member of NUSPA and lymebusters posting frequently over the course of years. It always looked to me as if he was seeking the help, not providing it. Whom did you attempt to help TC?
I guess we all have our own interpretations of “truth.” I happen to believe that I’m not the one lying here. Actually, you have never explained what you think I am lying about. It’s just easier to call people names and make blanket accusations and then run away, isn’t it?
Right here, Aherah. Thee following statements, in quotes are lies.
“I never sought-out your advice. If you look back at the lymebusters’ old posts, you’ll notice that I refrained from becoming involved where you were.”
Another thing, I “never” thought I had Morgellons while I was a member of Lymebusters. I havn’t believed that in almost four years. I tried to understand what I had experienced, but I certainly didn’t think it was Morgellons.
How did I try to help people? I’ll tell you exactly how I tried. I tried to encourage them to boost their immune systems, and I outlined the steps to follow, over and over and over.
I also tried to help them understand that Morgellons IS NOT a disease. I never once asked for any help from any one of them concerning Morgellons. But I encouraged them to quit abusing their skin with harsh chemicals.
I also attempted to supply them with a bit of humor, to lighten the load. I’ve received letters from people testifying about how my words helped them.
But, as you well know, or should, Morgies do not want to hear about how to take proper care of their skins immunity, or their health in general. So, no, I didn’t very far with any practical advice to them.
People started claiming that Smileykins and I couldn’t have had what they have, or else we wouldn’t have gotten well. Well, very few of us had the same thing wrong with us, but we were sick and near dying, and we made it back.
You can have the last word, but I don’t care to communicate with you any more. There isn’t a single thing about you that I like, or can respect, and I suppose the feeling is mutual.
I had specifically said nothing about when TC was ill and on NUSPA’s message board. People with this “thing” are living in an “Alice In Wonderland” existence, so to speak. Sure, of course it “is reality”….”to them”. Nobody can change that, and furthermore, they don’t want to. They just do not want to.
“Mental Block”? Yes, MHKS, and one can read (and only imagine) what their families must go through with them. One would have to give up and go along, and just try finding a way of living with it. What would the alternative be? One may read plenty enough about those various alternatives, too, all the while, with the “vicitim” of “morgellons disease” clinging tightly to their beliefs, and losing everything they used to care about.
“You can have the last word, but I don’t care to communicate with you any more. There isn’t a single thing about you that I like, or can respect, and I suppose the feeling is mutual.”
You annoy me, but I don’t hate so easily. I don’t really care what you or anyone else thinks of me on this board; I can’t say I hold all of you in high ethical regard either. Still, you think you know me, but you don’t. In this respect, you are absolutely 100% delusional. What you have gleaned from my personality was a reaction to your silly, poorly thought-out ploys at mischaracterizing a group a legitimately ill people. I’m only Aherah when I need to be; the rest of the time I’m just Linda, the loving mother, the veteran (like you), the writer, the teacher, the good friend, the hopeful agnostic searching for meaning in life. You don’t know her because you’re incapable of knowing her.
What is sad it that you say you are so glad to be rid of “Morgellons,” then you write about it incessantly here. You’ll never be rid of it even if you aren’t physically sick. You’ve put yourself in a Sartrian hell a la Morgellons. Now that’s a situation I would never wish on anybody. Honestly, I hope you manage to find peace in life, but it won’t happen as long as you’re here.
We know the definition of peace, and you don’t fit into it, for either of us. You came to this forum, speaking of your plans ahead of time, as though lymebusters’ forum had you shrouded behind a cloak of secrecy, setting out on a mission to be nothing but a purposeful menace to us here. Congratulations, on that. Abac68 confessed what caused it in her, and she is doing better as a result. London is an absolute dear. All morgies have to know what the big words at the top of the page, “Morgellons Watch Resources for Morgellons investigators. Skeptical analysis and debunking.”, mean, I would think. So, since you’re here, that means you want help. If not, play the game however it brings satisfaction to you.
Out of Dr. Stricker’s own mouth, in June:
“There really are physical symptoms that occur in people who are not crazy, although once they have it, it usually makes them pretty crazy.”
Some people might be debunking here, but you are not.
n 1: light informal conversation for social occasions [syn: chitchat,
small talk, gab, gabfest, tittle-tattle, chin-wag,
2: a report (often malicious) about the behavior of other
people; “the divorce caused much gossip” [syn: comment,
3: a person given to gossiping and divulging personal
information about others [syn: gossiper, rumormonger,
v 1: wag one’s tongue; speak about others and reveal secrets or
2: chew the fat; shoot the breeze [syn: chat, confabulate,
confab, chitchat, chatter, chaffer, natter, jaw,
That definition suits your behavior to a T, and TC.
This IS the internet, TC, hehe, but I’d thought I was keeping pretty good tabs on you, on this blog. Aside from speaking out against Mary Leitao (although, not as badly as me), and others who are associated with this “morgellons” scam, why not just save me the energy and come clean, so I don’t have to do a search to see where you gosspied, and violated someone’s privacy. All this time, I thought you were doing the same as me, stating your opinions in the form of generalizations about “morgellons victims”, which can be readily viewed on their message boards.
Of course, then somebody, forgetting that this IS the internet, and that they weren’t secluded in secrecy, made plans to come to this blog to defend herself. That person was not even being spoken about, but she certainly needed some attention, and I obliged her. I don’t think this one is working for Mary Leitao, like the one who’d confessed was, though, but nevertheless, it just doesn’t quite add up. Maybe they all work for her, since it doesn’t add up.
To anyone with children, please, never scratch a child when they have any skin problems that cause them to itch; ringworm, eczema, or otherwise. Until you can get them to a doctor for treatment, look on line at good advice, and please stay away from hazardous message board tips.
I apologize, TC, I am accused also. I misread.
I have fibers within the first layer of my skin. They seem to be just underneath or around my hair folicles. What happens usually is a hair folicle becomes agitated like an ingrown hair or a pimple after I pop it or agitate it. Then I would rip out the little white head which has hair coming out of it. I think the white head which is round is the hair folicle. Then underneath that is where the fibers are on my skin. After I dig out the white head their becomes a small crater in my skin that the fibers can be picked out with a needle and tweezers. My fibers seem to lay in a horizontal strand that cross the crater. I can pick out single fibers in different colors (red,White,blue) only after dig the needle into the center of the strand and pull almost as hard as i can (very painfull) to break a fiber in half out of the buch thats stranded together. Then I use the tweezers to try and pull the fiber on both sides of the crater. This almost always leaves a scar in a crater like fashion. I always thought that it was just small ingrown hairs. Until I dug deep and saw them with my own eyes. You can bareley just see them without a microscope.
I also have very sensitive skin that results in itchy hives, at random, everyday. Antihistamines hardly help. I need do see and allergist when I can afford it to run a series of tests. I’ve alrealdy tried diet changes to eliminate some of the possibilities for the cause of my hives. But the fibers are different.
I am curious if other people have hives or sensitive skin like me, who also have fibers in their skin. Maybe there is a corralation. A controlled environment is needed to test whether or not the human body, the nervous system, parasites, pollution, cotton, or new-age genetic engineering, is causing this phenomenon.
Kirby, I hope you can see an allergist soon. I have eczema, which has been in remission for nearly 20 years. I have many skin allergies, and have, my entire life. Allergists are helpful to some people, but rather than having the one I saw mix me up a special set of shots to administer to myself on a daily basis, I opted for learning to live my life through restricting exposures to triggers.
They’re all around, but I manage real well. It hasn’t been an easy journey, and it is something I encounter, and deal with, every day. That’s just the way someone with skin sensitivities lives. Yes, there are environmental fibers in our air, which are unavoidable of coming into contact with. That’s just a simple fact of our existence. Please try to refrain from bothering your skin as much as you possibly can. Until you get that appointment with an allergist, rather than letting “morgellons disease” poison your mind, please, read about the our skin’s anatomy, and its innate immune properties, and learn all that you can about skin allergies. Good luck.
Thankyou. I will not let “morgellons disease” effect me negatively. This is not a life threatening disease. Its just a pain in the ass or if you will ” an itch of the skin”. However, I’m willing to “donate” my fiber samples if someone knew what to do with them. I know the fibers are different and unusual and I fear that maybe more people have it than we think. I am another person coming out of the blue today on record with my condition. Tally me up. I would also agree that drugs from past experience tends to affect or speed up the process of the fibers or just make them worse. Maybe we could electricute the fibers or use a dipilitory to disolve them. Burning them is out of the question (apparently}. Anyways thankyou for the post and responce. Good luck to you too and everyone else.
You say “I would also agree that drugs from past experience tends to affect or speed up the process of the fibers or just make them worse.”
Questions: Were the drugs topical? Did they stop or improve the itch even though as you say, the “fiber production” got worse? Did you continue picking or itching while taking or applying these drugs?
I understand that if you have an itch, it can become unbearable not to scratch it–which is part of the problem with lesions not healing. But for god’s sake, quit digging into them with needles. I guarantee that’s not going to help!
Thanks for your time.
Kirby, you’re welcome, and thank you for the good luck wishes. I appreciate that. Having endured bouts with eczema, and heatrash, as a tiny child, as well as later in life, I was accustomed to fibers becoming adhered to my skin when it was oozing. I never thought that people having fibers in, or on, their skin was ever anything to be concerned about. However, I encountered a different situation with fibers about four years ago. Is there a way that you can describe for us how you know that these particular fibers you’re referring to are different and unusual? Thank you.
I never noticed the fibers at first. It was only after I saw a t.v program, I think (20/20), that i explored my infected follicles or in-grown hairs and discovered the fibers underneath. I found tiny red white and blue fibers like the ones the people in the program described. I knew they were unusual because they were smaller than hair strands. Almost microscopic but still visible with the naked eye. Also I noticed the integrity of the fibers. Unbelievably strong. They were stronger and smaller than hair fibers and were different colors than any hair that grew on my body. This is how I know that these fibers were of foreign nature or just new and hardly discovered in the medical world as explained in the (20/20) television program. The program also stated that only around 1000 people have this condition. Is that true? Does anybody know? Can any body tell me the name, or if they saw the special too?
Kirby, how did you determine that the fibers were “unbelievably strong”?
How do they compare to cotton?
I assume you are referring to the ABC Primetime Medical Mysteries show, not 20/20. It was about Morgellons. Nobody has ever been diagnosed with Morgellons, nor is it recognized as a “condition”. Lots of people claim to have it though.
What I meant about the fibers being strong was that they were strongly attached to my body. The fibers were hard to get a hold of, but when I did they would only break off in smaller pieces. The longest one I got was about 1/8 of an inch. I think they go down into the deepest layers of my skin. Thats where I stopped digging. But like I said before there seemed to be a major strand of the red white and blue fibers woven together in a bigger strand, wich I would have to pick open first with the needle. I did this so I could seperate each fiber, and thats when I really noticed the different colors of the fibers. They seemed to be stronger than cotton because I took two pairs of tweezers and ripped one of the fibers in half with the tweezers at each end of the 1/8 fiber. I’ve done that with cotton, hair, wool, silk, spider webs,ect. For there size in diameter they seem to be really strong. I
I’m sorry. You suffer from a condition known as delusions of parasitosis. Never mind what you saw on T.V.; it’s just a show trying to wow people so that they can get sponsors to fatten their wallets. You can’t possibly be seeing what you think you see. It’s just not logical. You must be confusing these fibers in your flesh with ordinary dust. You do have dust in your environment I assume? If you could videotape the fibers in your skin, then we could better demonstrate how wrong you are.
BTW one of the goals of this blog is to enlighten people like you to your foolish naiveté so you don’t ever begin to believe in the non-existent illness some refer to as Morgellons.
Oh yea, Michael, I’m way overdue for a raise, don’t you think?
Aherah, I wonder why you are back to using your “Pumpkin” persona? Don’t you feel that’s a tad deceptive?
No. It’s not as if ya’ll don’t know me. Around here, it’s kind of nice to be referred to with a term of endearment. So call me Pumpkin, OK? I’m going to guess you use a name other than Jeezelouise at home. Today I feel like Pumpkin. Tomorrow Aherah. When I resume my quest for eternal life, I’ll be Upnapishtim. I play how I want to play. I mean no offense Louise, I’m just being honest.
As far as I know (I’m sure Michael can clarify) you are the only person posting to this blog under multiple identities. I have to wonder what your motivation is?
Jeezelouise, who were you at Lymebusters? Thunderations? No, that was TC. Concerned? Concerned2? Had we corresponded before and you just never wanted to admit to it? Now you be honest.
Well, yes, *we* know you, but newcomers to this site do not know that you use at least three identities here. And since you are addressing newcomers using multiple identities, again, I wonder why.
Louise, my motivation is to participate in the discussion. That’s all. Perhaps my different personas have different opinions.
If nothing else, at least Pumpkin is forthright about the opinions and agendas of this blog, and she didn’t even have to resort to name calling. I say she deserves a BIG raise.
Again, don’t you think it a tad deceptive, using multiple identities?
Oh, sorry, I just saw this …
Jeezelouise, who were you at Lymebusters? Thunderations? No, that was TC. Concerned? Concerned2? Had we corresponded before and you just never wanted to admit to it? Now you be honest.
No, I have never posted to Lymebusters.
Pumpkin, you know I’m against the summary DOP dismissal. I’ve don’t know what is wrong with you, or with Kirby. Sure, there might besome new fiber producing disease that you have, the evidence just does not seem very strong for it.
You can feel free to believe what you see on TV, but you might want to exercise a little caution, especially regarding health news.
Want to see my fibers? Like I said, I am still willing to “dig out” some samples if I knew where and to whom they were going to. I try hard not to mess with them, but if it’s in the name of “science” for research, I’ll give you some. Whether its fiber or dust or genetically modified cotton worms, I dont care. There is obviuosly a physical problem that needs to be addressed and not overlooked. Maybe someone will take the matter professionaly, provide microscopic slide materials for samples, for everyone, and test all the samples to see how similar or different they are. Then at least maybe we could all vote on a mame if you contributed what you thought was your sample, to further understandment and acceptance of this, “E.T. cotton worm” phenominon, if you will… Just kidding…. E.T. would have never brought the cotton worm to Earth. O.k now Its getting crazy. Lets just keep it simple.
Kirby, Wymore is studying fibers, you should talk to him.
I just have to say this – If Wymore is studying fibers that tells me RED FLAG!!! WHY study the fibers??
My fibers look like my hair – I only see the obvious ones. I never digged coloured fibers out. Oh sure I saw some colours on the occasion.
I am sorry victim Kirby – BUT I just can not read your post – when you started to talk about needles and tweezers and digging in your skin – I had to STOP. If you want my personal opinion – YOU HAVE to STOP also, please go see a good doctor, that is all I can say, DON’T send your hair/fibers to Wymore. I do hope you feel better, please take care of YOU, forget about Morgellons please and of course MARY LEITAO.
I was thrown enough lines many times to send samples, BUT it did not make sense to me. ?? Infectious Disease — send your sample in the MAIL!!! to MARY LEITAO!
Ken Cowles even bailed me up on the phone about it – “Oh yes you can assist Dr Wymore with his reseatch, send him samples”, so I write to Wymore, how do I do it???? etc etc etc – ONCE again sent on yet another wild goose chase. My god if this is meant to be an infectious disease and PANDEMIC in CA (mary!) you would think that the authorities CDC would have done something and of course the World Health Organisation.
BUT Mary – you just did it so nicely – YOU THOUGHT – you kept feeding me registrations when my health was on the UP – and what did that do to me – SENT ME DOWN!!! WHY – Because the whole damn thing made NO sense AT all and I am NOT A DOCTOR (thank god!) – BUT I am bloody smart woman – and you obviously thought I wasn’t.
morgellons is realated to sarcoidosis..the truth lies in the middle.. The patient is having symptoms that are very real that apprear and feel like a parasite. And this is where all the trouble starts. Where a very real condidtion can get piegon holed into a diagnosis of delusions. Yes there are no parasites, and yes this a real hyperimmune condition with no know cause..Similiar to sarcoidosis. The fibers are real and are likely being produced by the suffers own body..When they pick or try to extract the fibers the condition exsarerbates..For every one fiber they remove 3 more are produced by the body..Its is definatly a hyper immune reaction.
I think you are absolutely right concerning some of the Morgies. Both you and Randy Yaskel has been diagnosed with sarcoidosis, and I think there are probably some others. I also think that fibroblasts encapsulate granulomas. But I don’t believe that all Morgies have Sarcoidosis, nor do I think that they all have macro fibers. I’d say that everyone with lesions have micro fibers sometimes, because the float in the air that we breath. I think fibers can also come from the environment.
I really feel that the whole “They just want to say we’re crazy” is a straw man.
Look I may have been exposed to CLM that somehow reactivated my sarc..I was in mexico and my wife was feeding a very sick looking donkey potato chips. On my beach towel..The sob was standing on my beach towell when I got out of the water surfing..But of course this was pre-morgs so I just grabbed the towell and dried off..The next day I got this rash..The dreaded morgs rash..That progressed to little red bumps and track marks all over my body within a month..This preceded the fibers by 3 months. Now either the major sun exposure I got in mex..cuase a realapse.. Or a for real parasite caused it.. But I do have to realate with the new poeple on the board..I can completely understand why they think they have a parasite.. And I can help but think they are 4 years behind me…My guess is a very very high number of them have a out of control immune response going on…Yes there a few meth head lunies…but most of them dont even know how to get on line..so I think the percentage of drug addidicts on the MRF boards would be less than the general population as a whole…I will go out on a limb. 7% addictes…15 % crazy chicks with dop. 60 % legit sick poeple with no clue as to what they have. & 18 % long terms that are figuring it out…
YES!! They will set up any argument that they “think” they can defeat. They do that as a diversionary tactic, hoping we will throw out the baby with the dishwater. We aren’t trying to convince them of anything. But the reason they are so interested in us is because we are working to hinder their recruiting, and change public opinion. That does have the potential weaken their movement, but their cause isn’t worthy. In fact, their beliefs are taking a terrible toll. Some battles never end, and this is one of them. All we can possibly do is help convince some people not to participate.
Hi, Jeff. Before I’d seen the full gravity of the situation with “morgellons disease” patients, I used to wonder, based on quite a few of the things I’d read in some of their comments, how many of them had sarcoidosis and didn’t know it. Being an avid surfer, have you noticed whether having contact with sand brings on any extra problems with granulomas? I have read that something as benign as using talc powder can trigger it. I feel confident that you’ll succeed in diligently pursuing this as what has been causing your problems, all along. Model/actress, Karen Duffy, “Duff”, formerly of MTV, has sarcoidosis. Before she went public with her illness, I knew very little about it.
As you know, there are many, many things that can cause an immune reaction, or cause a flare up of an immune disease. You very well may have picked up a parasite from that Mexican donkey, expecially since the donkey was sick. Of course, that doesn’t make that hypothetical parasite a Morgellons pathogen. The next person to develop symptoms like your’s may have caused their immune response, or overresponse, with an entirely different stimulus. As luck would have it, neither stimuli may have been present by the time that either of you got in to see a doctor. Also, there are many things that can cause the response, besides parasites.
Jeff, by the definition of Delusions of Parasitosis, a person with DOP has an unwarranted although unshakable belief that they have parasites. By the sounds of it, you do not have DOP. Once I got well, and I think you’ll recall, I started advising people to do what they could to boost their immune system, and I told them some of the ways to do it. I also told them to follow the instructions of their doctors. As you might imagine, that went over like a lead balloon. They believe that Morgellons is a new, emerging, or an old, reemerging disease, and that it has pathogen, a pathogen that they are spending a fortume, and making every effort to kill. All they are doing is going broke, and killing themselves in the process.
I don’t know how many of the Morgies have Sarcoidosis, but as you know, it’s nothing new, and it has no pathogen, if the mainstream scientists are correct. What you are supposed to do, is treat the sarcoidosis, and if the trigger is present, try to eliminate it, if it can be done safely. Without the medicine, however, something else is going to come along and trigger it.
The body produces fibers to encapsulate foreign objects that it cannot otherwise neutralize. These fibers wrap the object up like a mummy, and seal it off, so it can’t have any effect on a person. One problem, however, is that it also attempts to encapsulate things that it “perceives” to be threats, even if that perception is invalid. I’ve also told people, treat what you’ve got. The Sarcoid medicine makes much needed adjustments to the immune system.
I don’t know, but I believe that “various” immune disorders can cause excessive production of fibroblasts, and some fibroblasts are going to be produced when it’s doing its job properly.
Jeff, when people get caught up in the “insanity” at Lymebusters, what do they learn? They learn not to trust their doctors. They learn not to say with any doctor that they disagree with. A doctor can’t help people with that attitude. The self-diagnose, incorrectly, and start trying to kill a wide range of parasites that are NOT present, at least not now. They are not in the micrographs, which are nothing but scabs, hairs, fibers, blood, dried sebum, serum, and ecllular debris, etc.
They think that the crud that comes out of their bodies is pathogenic. Some of it was alive, for a short time. It’s their own immune cells. Some is also the confused natural flora, that’s been driven out by pesticides and other poisona. But they burn or discard their furniture and clothes, and run from themselves.
They develop all kinds of conspiracy theories, and do some really strange things, like petition the government, that they expressly distust, for help in identifying their “disease”. You know, as well as I do, that they are not going to believe the government if it doesn’t agree with their beliefs. They lose custody of their children, they let their pets die, they lose their friends, and they lose their property, all because of their obcession with Morgellons.
My point is this. The forums of the Believers are extremely harmful. If we can’t stop the forums, we must do what we can to slow down their recruitment. Innocent people are walking blindly into a trap that is all consuming and totally unforgiving.
You sound like you are making a lot of progress in your thinking. Get your past medical records and get your ducks all in a row. I don’t know about the others, but you’re gonna make it. Don’t let them pull you back in. You can come over here any time you want to.
I would like to know why those at this site spend so much time trying to disprove morgellons ? I mean, any sites having anything to do with morgellons you can find posts from you both , it seems an enormous amount of your time and energy is spent completely obsessing with this thing called morgellons , Do any of you realize that this itself is a serious disorder? have any of you considered the fact that you may be the ones incorrectly giving information, and the harm this would cause? how are you so certain? I’ve read your posts, so don’t answer by saying something funny like “you are highly educated in this matter.” get some help for yourselves and let the health agencies do their jobs without the doubt you are creating.
You’re wasting your time by coming here giving us orders. You take care of Fred and let us take care of ourselves. Okay? Good!! Your questions have already been addressed elsewhere on this blog. If you’ve read the blog, I suggest that you spend some time developing your reading comprehension skills.
Fred, if you read here, even just at the top, you’d know the purpose of this blog. Now, here you are, again, exaggerating about the amount of sites someone posts on. Do you always try to control people? I mean, is that one of your common personality traits?
I see that you are a controlling personality. Well, like I’d said in another reply to you, Fred, my gosh, just chill out. The CDC is working on it for y’all. Look at how many of you there is, if that troubles you. Now, come on, and get real. A few people talking is nothing to stand in the way of anything.
Fred, you’re plain funny. Our telling people to follow their doctors’ advice is harmful?
Forgive me. I lied, so bad. Fred, you’re not the least bit funny. Jeff, I guess you have to do like Fred wants, now.
This is worth doing again:
NO!!! NEVER, EVER, EVER, FRED!!!
“One other very odd thing. I noticed that for some reason, the more one pays attention to these critters, the more active they become.”
Now, that is strange. Almost like it requires the afflicted to know it’s there in the first place, right?
Think on that for a minute…
Like Tall Cotton just hollered out at me, “Tell ’em if they’ll quit believing it’s a bear, it’ll become a stump again”. That’s about the size of it, too.
Any tangible link to Chemtrails will be reidicules or silenced. This is how it works.
It’s the fascism stupid.
welcome to club stupid
I’m fairly certain that Mr. Thompson will not return, but I still would like to know in what ways people are “silenced.”
i rank this up there with tesla’s death ray, chemtrails, ergone energy, and holy hand grenades…
show me the fibers crawling around, and i’ll be less skeptical…
However I dont think it is prudent for the medical community to be dismisive to something that could potentially be “new”.
what about the first people to have a strange cough, only later to find that asbestos was causing cancer? – i’m sure they were paranoid and delusional too.
How about bees? Its a fact they are disappearing, but the cause is unknown. Does this mean that since there is no “known” cause, the bees need a psychological evaluation?
ahh the CDC…
oh, how I have complete faith in you… 🙂
I’m sure the government always behaves responsibly when it comes to viral outbreaks.
The medical community has not been dismissive. Prior to the introduction of “morgellons disease”, a sizable amount of the patients in this movement were the ones being dismissive. They’d received, as many continue to, a sizeable amount of repeated diagnoses of the same thing. Another commonality shared by patients in this movement, is the false expectation of the role of a doctor, too.
With all due respect, I heartily disagree with your opinion on mesothelioma patients, and honey bees have been diminishing for about fifty years, due to a whole lot of reasons. If you’re really worried, then you should learn about things from credible sources, not fear mongering ones. The CDC does more than you’ll ever know to protect us.
Insufficient, and incorrect, sources of information are dangerous when they play directly into a person’s fears.
I’m sorry, it thought most intelligent people could digest sarcasm, with a twist of reality…
On the other hand, you are absolutely right…
The medical community (Doctors, specialists, surgeons, nurses etc.) couldn’t be dismissive, cause if they were, people would get misdiagnosed. Of course well all know that never happens.
Hey bunghole – what sort of name is that?
Anyway… I am a case of “misdiagnosis”, it does happen, even in todays society.
Thank god I’m over the DOP.
I really feel for the elderly who suffer from DOP.
People with Alzheimer’s get DOP, anyone can get DOP. My Nanny had Alzheimer’s and I bet she had DOP too, before she died she was like a baby, it was horrible, didn’t recognise any of her family, not even my dad, her own son.
I spoke to a lady last year an Aussie Registrant for Morgellons, she told me her dad had been diagnosed with DOP, he was in a nursing home, and was deaf. She asked if I could help her to help her dad, but I couldn’t. I felt terrible that day, and unfortunately I had my first experience of paranoia, I got scared and told the lady I had to go. I do hope her dad is ok.
sorry typos, I got smileykins disease I think.
I meant to say my “Nana”.
Does anyone know how to turn this thing off?
Maybe I just put the computer in the bin, good idea!
“The medical community (Doctors, specialists, surgeons, nurses etc.) couldn’t be dismissive, cause if they were, people would get misdiagnosed. Of course well all know that never happens.”
That’s a false dichotomy. You’re saying doctors are either dismissive and people are misdiagnosed, or they are vigilant and diagnosed properly.
I do believe most of our doctors are vigilant and diagnosed properly, but unfortunately with this condition I think they are scared, because they know the truth.
And how do you surmise yor conclusion? If they were scared, would they even agree to see you in their office? I don’t understand.
There isn’t just one truth to come out about Morgellons Sarah, there is many truths to be exposed.
I am not saying Doctors were scared of me because they thought I was contagious. I can understand a doctor not wanting to take on my condition. The controversy, the insurance, and the risks of either party being sued.
I don’t intend to sue anyone, I just want clarification from someone that a crime was committed.
wow you gave us definitions of delusion. Big freaking deal? that doesnt mean anything. i know what delusion is and i know that i am not delusional.
Huh? Maybe you need to rethink this. Where did I do that, and what’s up with the “us” business? Are you the same “Chris” who I posed a question to, in the comments’ section of the “Brandi Koch” topic?
Here is another physician to add to your incorrect and possibly defamatory, list of “quacks”.
By the way, I am sure you know what a medical centers of excellence represents. What I do not believe you aware of is One is being currently being organized.
Also, I looked into my crystal ball and have seen many legal issues in our futures, Are you ready? Or maybe, through your choice of words and actions, you may avoid these kinds of headaches. At least from myself anyway.
It also appears that the pace of things is picking up, and the foundations for legal recourse are being cast. Your time to change your positions is closing. Are you going to actually defame this physician also? http://www.mentalhealthandillness.com/index.html Twist that. So, as you have said to me, I now say to you, do the right thing.
Morgellons Disease — Bransfield 42 (11): 24 — Psychiatric News http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/42/11/24-b?etoc Psychiatr News June 1, 2007Volume 42, Number 11, page 24© 2007 American Psychiatric Association Letters to the Editor
Robert C. Bransfield, M.D. Red Bank, N.J.
I am pleased to see that in the December 15, 2006, issue, Psychiatric News drew attention to Morgellons disease and that the excellent article gave sound advice on communicating with delusional parasitosis patients. However, I would like to add comments about the distinction between Morgellons disease and delusional parasitosis. I’ve evaluated and treated Morgellons patients, spoken with researchers and other clinicians who work with these patients, read the limited literature on the subject, and reviewed a database of 3,000 Morgellons patients. The Morgellons patients I have seen had surprisingly similar symptoms, with an abrupt onset, often following a toxic exposure. Before the onset of their illness, these patients’ mental status appeared to be quite representative of the general population, and some (including physicians) were high-functioning professionals. The condition appears more common in nurses, teachers, and in family members in the same household, which suggests a con tagious component. After the onset of the illness, these patients report surprisingly similar symptoms. They have a combination of bizarre dermatological sy mptoms, cognit ive impairments, mood disturbances, and sometimes paranoia and suicide attempts in later stages of the illness. Their symptoms are not compatible with schizophrenia, bipolar illness, substance abuse, or other recognized causes of delusions. When patients complain of fibers protruding from their skin, examination with a low-power digital microscope can visualize and photograph the presence or absence of these fibers. In addition, many Morgellons patients test positive for Lyme disease. The mental symptoms seen in Morgellons are similar to those of other chronic general medical illnesses with psychiatric manifestations, since the mental symptoms fluctuate in a pattern similar to that of the general medical symptoms; and this suggests that the mental symptoms are probably associated with immune and/or toxic effects upon the brain. When these patients are treated with modest courses of antibiotics, their dermatological and psychiatric symptoms often show significant improvement. Without a thorough assessment, Morgellons patients are commonly given a diagnosis of delusional parasitosis, resulting in a delay in proper treatment. Whatever Morgellons is, it is something very different and unique and should be considered as a condition needing further study and possibly listed in the next edition of the DSM. In summary, Morgellons disease and delusional parasitosis are two distinct clinical entities. Morgellons does not appear to be an imaginary or delusional illness and merits the research effort that we see with any other emerging and serious illness. ###
Oh, I’d have to be delusional to think that I could be sued, South, and I’m not. We’ve always had a communication barrier. I don’t understand you, any more than you understand me.
Okay, months ago, when I’d looked up Robert C. Bransfield, M.D., DFAPA, PC, another one of the members of the MRF’s Medical Advisory Board, I just couldn’t fully understand the reason why, since he’s written so much about the neuropsychiatric effects of lyme disease, that the MRF failed making any of that very pertinent information available for patients on their web site. I couldn’t discern, at the time, what, exactly, that particular board member’s motivation was for joining up as an advisor to them. He’d sort of sounded like an almost okay guy, back when I’d read a few of the things he’d written (like this link below), and I’d hoped, and even tried to entertain the assumption, that he may have involved himself to attempt to get everyone derailed by this deception back on track.
He’s cleared it up for me, now, after reading that letter to the editor.
South, if you aren’t concerned enough about doing the right thing in getting Sad2Say the help she needs over that pituitary adenoma, that’s probably grown, and is possibly pressing on her brain, as well as messing up her hormones (and so much more, since she stopped taking dosinex for it, and prozac, too, so long ago), that’s such a crying shame. She’d publicly posted that it was after stopping those meds, that she got “morgellons disease” symptoms. It’s hard to accept that so many “morgellons disease” patients know, and yet, at the same time, none of you know, all the clear leads as to what’s the matter with you.
You’re all just so plain lost, without any hope of ever recovering, as far as I can tell. False hope, yeah, and that leads to much worse things.
Oh, wait. What is the right thing you told me to do, South?
Just a comment about the fibers that make you itch…..has anyone tested them for Endobacteria….a chemical in little nematode worms used for Agruculture….thats how they kill bugs the bacteria is toxic….after the worm injectes the host (Hopefully a bug and not a person or pet)
This comes in a few brands of Biological insecticide…..they could probally be carried by flooding birds and other animals to places they shouldnt be… I am trying to get them tested with a Manufactur who makes the product or similar products for an ID and or Fix….because they also make or should make specialized chemicals to kill them also…
People have been having what they call Morgellons symptoms many years before this technology was begun. This also applies to the modern nano technologies and the use of chemtrails.
I believe that morgellons is related to the
(bacterial bug methicillin res staph aureus)
I tested positive for the that from cotton swabs from skin lesions from my penis. are there other morgellons sufferers that have lesions on their penis? I was also checked for stds and i have none of them. PLEASE WRITE BACK IF YOU HAVE HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR BACTERIA.
Chris, I’m very sorry to hear that news. There are some other patients, among those who think that they have “morgellons disease”, who have stated that they have MRSA infections. Please follow what your doctor says.
Smileykins, I dont think i have morgellons….I know i do. that is fact number 1
Fact number 2 is that i have had weird lesions on my penis then inflamed pimple like round bumbs on my penis.
THE DOCTOR DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE.
I was checked for every std in the book and nothing came up.
I am now going to a dermatologist and infectious disease doctor
Also besides the fibers that grow out of my body at any time. i have heard of other people that have morgellons that are describing every symptom to the smallest detail and i know what they are talking about.
There are other men out there who have these same morgellons related problem that i do so fuck off. I wish you had what i had then you would know what i have to go through every day of my life
Chris, in comment number #175, you’d said, “PLEASE WRITE BACK IF YOU HAVE HEARD ANYTHING ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR BACTERIA”.
Look at it…
I am cursing all of you because i am frustrated beyond any understanding you could imagine.
yes i have talked to brandi koch and exchanged notes about our experiences.
it assured me that i am not alone is describing these weird things growing from my body.
It is strange that all these peole are describing these things growing from their body and also testing positive for MSRA. I think it is related to it.
I am not cursing myself. I am cursing the inteligent design of our planet for ruining my life.
Its gonna be hard for me to find a wife who will accept these strange occurences on my body and including my penis. its sad knowing that at 22 i will probably not have a normal life like you non afflicted people.
The only thing i wanted out of life is a marriage and children. I might never get to have that gift.
I’m terribly sorry to hear that Chris but being alone isn’t too bad. I’ve lived much of my life with no one. You can still have your normal life if you don’t let this problem you have ruin it. There are people out there with AIDS and cancer and Tuberculosis who may have short lives but they still make the best of it.
Also I’m sorry to hear that you curse the planet’s intelligent design for ruining you life. At least you have a life for it to ruin.
Chris, MRSA is nasty thing to have. It can be treated, but you really need to work with your doctors. It’s VERY IMPORTANT that you continue to talk to your doctors about your infection, and follow their recommendations. You are still very young, and you still have to lot of time to focus on getting well before you have to worry about getting married.
Listen to your doctors. They are your best bet right now. Good luck.
i do listen to my doctors. they both are skeptical if morgellons even exists. the first time i went to him and introduced him to the word morgellons he said he had never heard of it but he believed me that black specs and fibers come from my skin.
There are scientists and doctors that have gone on tv saying this is real and many are suffering from this.
I don’t understand something. Why would physicians not address the fact of the fibers that can be examined under a microscope, in addition to other symptoms? Even if they want to argue that it is psychologically induced, how can they ignore the fibers?
The fibers ain’t nuttin’. What the patient THINKS about ’em, is e-v-e-r-y-t-h-i-n-g.
In response to “…how can they ignore the fibers?…” the main reason is that some of these fibers resemble hair. Although a person examining the hairlike fibers could easily mistake them for hair, the person on which they are growing knows the difference between the normal hairs the “hairs” that are not normal. The other fibers are often very small and are difficult to “show”. If a patient comes into a doctor with samples they have found in lesions, the doctors will say things like, “how do I know where that came from” implying the patient is lying about where the fibers came from. So you have to get an already skeptical doctor to dig around in lesions and look for something they already don’t believe is going to be there.
I also believe that 9/11 was an inside job, but that’s a no-brainer.
Wow what a read – the whole 186 posts of this thread, no pun intended.
After reading a very interesting article in New Scientist, “The Itch that won’t be scratched” Daniel Elkan (13th Sep. 2007) I went online to read more.
Many of the theories mentioned in this thread that try to explain what is happening were also mentioned in this article and more.
I was initially surprised that alot of time is spent with insulting each other, secretly I found it entertaining and got the distinct impression that the people who engaged in this banter were possibly also enjoying it.
I promise I don’t want to get into a word scrap with anyone, but if you are interested do have a read of the article I mentioned (you can probably get it on-line http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health ) as I won’t be typing any part of it into this blog.
I wonder if we really do know very little about the nature of things.
Isthis4REAL, I don’t want to pay to read the article at:
Would you summarize what it said, causing you to “wonder if we do know very little about the nature of things”? Thank you.
Oh, dear. Concerning that article in NewScientist, I came across this terrible spin on Lymebusters’ message board.
The stuff Staninger is snowing them with was scheduled to be on Rense radio. “MORGELLONS – NANO 911 A FOREIGN INVADER”.
The Wall Street Journal’s “The Informed Reader” blog includes comments from some patients.
This is all so wrong, and so sad.
Hi Smileykins, my comment about the nature of things was just very general, honestly I was somewhere between ammused and shocked after reading some of the more fiesty post’s – so that’s were that came from.
As for the article – again after reading more of yours and TC’s post’s I think that you probably know preety much what there is to know currently on the subject so I don’t think that I will be enlightening you any further by summarizing.
I have been an avid reader of new scientist for many years and they like any other are sometimes swayed this way and that depending of course on various agendas, but I seem to have managed to be able to spot and filter this by now. In any case the article gives, in my opinion a balanced and sensible report of the current issues regarding morgellons. I do think the article would have “Morgellon sufferers” on the defensive because it does in my opinion give a faithfull account of the delusional process, however while leaving the back door wide open for speculation (protecting it’s readership maybe).
Before reading the article I only knew of a psychiatric syndrome called “Dermatitis artifacta” meaning that the condition was an artifact of psychopathology, so I was intrigued that there was a whole movement.
I wonder if there are some similarities with the “Morgellon movement” to another that I won’t name. It was a self help organisation for people with schizaphrenia and other psychotic illness’s, it was in my opinion the very paranoia so common with that illness that motivated these people to establish support that was independant from mainstream psychiatry and intent on “finding those alien’s and dispelling the myth about the need for medication”.
Then I was a young and eager pschiatric nurse and I couldn’t understand how the “mainstream” could let such a movement flurish, built on lies and delusion, how could this be helpfull for these people that really neaded professional help. I still don’t know what was good for some or not, but one thing I learned was that the more I engaged these people in dialouge with the intent to persued them into some common sense then the more fixed and encapsulated became thier delusions, a principle that I found time and time again over the rest of my career to be sound. It is tragic, sad and all the rest, but the more it is wrestled with the more it flurishes.
I havn’t read the bulk of this site only a few of the more recent blogs so I understand that I may not be in “the groove” completely, and honestly I couldn’t tell you what I understand your agenda to be other than I empathize with your staement about having without success to reach some of these people.
I read a little of your own story and thank you for that. Really it is not for me to say how kind, rude or blatently honest you or anyone should be, and again I will do my thing, maybe check back from time to time to see whats being discussed and who’s getting the love or not.
Thank you, Isthis4REAL. I don’t have an agenda. I’m appalled, and have very strong opinions about this pathetic matter, which I consider to be health fraud, of the worst sort. Vulnerable people of all types have fallen prey to Mary Leitao’s concocted and carefully orchestrated “disease”, having roots before she united them for “her” agenda. All of “their” agendas continue to pave the way for more and more, something different for each one, none of which I see anything good coming from.
Thanks to the internet, the coercion of such patients as this is unprecedented, and the “morgellons disease movement”, along with the “chronic” lyme movement, is helping to set society up for real epidemics through their antibiotic experimentations. Some of these patients almost even seem to know they’re revolting against treating their mental health, but, with their “leading experts in their movement” (the ones with the agenda), telling them that they aren’t delusional, and that “morgellons disease” is making them seem to be mentally ill, or causing it, I’m sure that a lot of them don’t understand, only all too willing to trust someone who seems to validate all their fears, and promise them a cure.
Now, really, I respect a person’s right to not treat a mental illness, except when it interferes with them so badly, they lack insight into what’s causing their problems, harm themselves, and others, and get used. As some patients openly give horrific accounts of the innocent children and animals under their care, many of them tell of committing crimes that are punishable by law, blaming everything on something other than what is, thinking that they, too, the children and pets, have “morgellons disease”. Pets are dying at the hands of their owners, and children will, eventually, if nothing is done to take care of these people. I think it’s likely that some of them may snap and carry out the threats they’ve made towards others, before their plight is really heard clearly. A lot of them say that “morgellons disease” is an evil entity. I agree with that much about it.
Good points, Smileykins. Doctors prescribing anti-biotics indescriminately, and of course the harm that comes to those around these unwell people.
I discovered long ago to my great dismay that a stupid and careless and sometimes dangerous individual can hold an authority to practice as a doctor.
I agree that the medical profession should take responsibility for it’s own and stop foolish widespread missus of antibiotic agents before it affects us all, if it’s not already too late.
i still like cats
On the topic of the fibers… http://members.cox.net/llyee/ncs_overview/overview_neuro-cutaneous_syndrome_revA.html
The fibers found off the open sores are of two types, textile and non-textile fibers. The textile fibers are of clothing or bedding sources and are often used by arthropod opportunistic infections as nesting material. The non-textile fibers are usually the mycelia of such opportunistic Mycetome fungi infections as Madurella spp. with the “black specks” being possibly their mycelial masses. The healing of some patients’ sores was observed to be correlated with the exit of remaining fibers from the lesions.5 Other fungi and bacterial infections indentified from swabs taken from patients’ open sores included Staphylocci, e.g., Staphylococcus aureus and S. haemolytica; Actinomycetes, e.g., Streptomyces spp., yeast, e.g., Candida albicans, and Enterobacteriaceae, e.g., Klebsiella sp.2,4 opportunistic infections with these organisms have been shown to aggravate the cutaneous symptoms of NCS patients.3
If someone told me that they had blisters or lesions with textiles emanating from them… and that they wouldn’t heal or how they had seen multiple doctors that dismissed their complaints as the ravings of a lunatic. First I would run as fast as I could to my liquor cabinet… lock it. Then… with the threat of losing my alcohol diminished I would tell them that they ought to listen to their doctor(s) or purchase a spinning wheel and go into business making bed sheets for their fellow sufferers. The name it self … MORGELLONS, sounds like something you would find at Macys. Morgellons 100 ct. glow in the dark fitted sheets. Come on!!
I am a cynic and this disease description is a bit hard to swallow. I would still be chuckling if I hadn’t come down with the insane symptoms myself. My story is almost indistinguishable from most of the story’s I have read to date. I first noticed the biting and itching… told my doctor that I thought I had scabies as they were no-see-ums. She reluctantly gave me a script for PERMETHRIN because the “bites” did not look like scabies to her. I used the stuff and got about 3 days relief. I got a refill 2 weeks later and tried again thinking “I missed a spot”. No dice… my “bites” had now become these deep lesions that defy description and had spread to my scalp.
Being a scab picker since childhood I went right to work on these. What I pulled out of my skin freaked me out. First I noticed that they had a cocktail shrimp sort of shape no matter what size or “stage of development” they’re in. They don’t bleed… at least until you get just about every last bit of it out, they just ooze a clearish fluid. They seem to be indiscriminate about what orifice they attack… I have pulled them out of my ears and nose. They seem to like residing in (not on) my eyebrows and whatever they are, constantly drop out and I am incessantly pulling them out of the corner of my eyes. I told my doc that I thought that I could have a parasite like hookworm because I could see these clear amoeba things come out of the lesions that had just been compromised. Cutaneous Larva Migrans seemed like the only answer for the crawling itch that is ruining my life.
She (my Doc) sent me to a dermatologist who was as helpful as gasoline in a fire extinguisher… I left with a topical Itch cream and was sent to the Infectious Disease Clinic at San Francisco’s UCSF Medical Center. Well my story is so similar to most, I won’t go into anymore depth other than to say… to date I have seen nine doctors and have not had treatment one. I have been made to feel like I am out of my mind… I have been called a methamphetamine addict with formication. All except for my family doctor… ALL have been rude and condescending at best… and uninterested seems to be the norm.
For the record, I was born in the 50’s and have enjoyed like most of my peers … occasionally getting out of my head and would NOT… for pride, the law or any other reason withhold information about the use of illicit drugs from my doctor as it would only impede my chances for a diagnoses and ultimately treatment. I honestly would rather get ass raped by a syphilitic monkey than continue with this malady, but the more I read the more disheartened I become. Until the medical community gets off their educated ass and trusts that their patients truly have only their own best interest at heart and are not suddenly coming forth en’mass for some demented, group sympathy or drama ploy we will continued to suffer.
Quite by accident I sprayed an areosal can of “air” for cleaning your laptop keyboard which is as cold as liquid nitrogen on one of the unbroken lesions or blisters. It froze the skin and after a few days just like a burn it started coming apart and inside was a perfectly preserved specimen of whatever these things are. Perhaps a doctor or clinician can use this as a tool…. just a thought.
The doctors that so many have seen should just do the right thing. Prescribe medicines to help prevent the injuries and make referrals.
The endless referrals seem to be “the right thing” to a terrible fault. What do you think happens when a patient walks into a “referral” Docs office? I can tell you that there is already an insurmountable bias to overcome and a sleep deprived, tortured patient is probably not the best person to convey the necessary information needed for an accurate diagnosis. They are waiting for the dreaded hammer (DOP) to drop and if the Dr. knows he is the #? referral? forget it.
I won’t even attempt to convince another cynic that this is the real deal because I know myself to well and have had people pass out in front of me to trying to convince ME of this or that. But would remind anyone trying to wrap their head around this that; medicine is not physics or boolean logic. It is not an exact science, there are no perfect patients or doctors. Investigators need open, compassionate, methodical minds in order to figure this thing out. What we don’t need is passive aggressive morons pretending to care while they dish out their jabs. Believe me it does not go unnoticed.
Any one in the SF bay area that would like to see what this “Delusion” does… can meet me. I will pay your bus, gas fare (to a point) lunch whatever. Seeing this is the only way you will ever believe that fibers are not planted or that the person is sane or whatever your criteria is. You can not “delude” gelatinous skin, blue fibers that appear out of nowhere, the blah blah blah… I really want to show a cynic what this is… in the hope (however slim) that their voice will be even louder when they see what a terrible (and real) malady this is. You have no idea the despair you feel when you are told over and over that what you KNOW is happening to you is all in your head or you did it to yourself.
You describe yourself as “being a scab picker since childhood”. Is it any wonder that your “bites” have “become these deep lesions that defy description”? What you describe as a “clearish fluid” is blood serum. It’s a normal part of the healing process, but the scabs are there to protect the wound, and need to be left alone so the lesion can heal.
You state that you have “seen nine doctors and have not had treatment one”, yet you say that “she reluctantly gave me a script for PERMETHRIN”. Those two statements seem to contradict one another.
You said that you have enjoyed “occasionally getting out of my head”, and that you wouldn’t “withold information about the use of illicit drugs from your doctor”. Did you tell your doctor that you had used methamphetamine? Is that why she called you a “methamphetamine addict”? Are any of your beliefs based on what you experienced while under the influence of drugs? Why do you consider your symptoms “insane”?
G Ras, lots of people HAVE seen you, and they have seen your fibers. The problem is they disagree with you as to where these fibers are coming from.
Have you ever considered that you might be wrong, and that the fibers might be clothing fibers? What does your dermatologist tell you the fibers are? What have ALL the doctors told you? Would it hurt to at least try to accept their diagnosis?
G Ras, you said:
Everyone who’s following this unprecedented phenomenon has a general idea of the power of resistance involved in this dilemma due to the numerous patient accounts. I, personally, don’t like having learned what the outcomes are of allowing such illnesses (as those falling under the “morgellons disease” umbrella), to remain untreated. The pay-off patients get from it doesn’t add up.
Being so inclined as to forfeit everything in hopes that someone will eventually see things as such patients do, quack doctors and nurses have, NATURALLY, seen things as ALL “morgellons” patients wish them to. Each one has designed something to fit every patient unable to escape from being under their various beliefs of what’s wrong.
People are allowed to not treat such illnesses as those falling under the “morgellons disease” umbrella, and that’s just fine, but to do it, while at the same time begging and pleading for recognition and help from it, while talking out the other sides of your mouths that you’ve refused help, interested ONLY in getting someone to see things as you do…
well, excuse me, that adds up to one thing, and one thing only. As a result, according to patient accounts, lots of innocent children, and innocent pets, are having their lives destroyed at the hands of those who are not capable of being responsible for their lives.
This is, all, so wrong…brought to our attention by the patients, of the patients, and for the patients, deceived by their own senses, first and foremost, and deceived by their predators, secondarily.
The world is an ugly place for some people, and I’m so sorry.
I am not writing this to prove a point or have y’all see things my way…. I am writing for the fellow sufferers… I truly believe that some “patients” are delusinal, that only makes sense. The people that recognize the symptoms I have put forth can be bolstered and the delusinal ones will have new symptoms to run to their Dr’s with…. I can not help that. As far as refusing treatment… I have had no offers.
I will play this new fish on the line once and will try to be as succinct as possible. First, as I refuse to let any situation… medical or otherwise get me down.. I try to inject a little humor whenever possible. I firmly believe that laughter is the best medicine.
Thus the “Being a scab picker since childhood” simply meant that I went straight into investigative mode. I am surprised that a learned person would miss the levity and take it at face value… typical. I value my looks and these lesions leave horrifying scars. If I were to continually pick the scabs, I would look like I walked face first into a wood-chipper
Wow!! With a vague description like “clearish fluid” you know that its blood serum…. This is what is so troubling to me, it‘s this kind of knee jerk, shotgun type of diagnosis (or lack of) that has us walking into walls, talking to ourselves.
The clearish fluid in question comes out of the what I describe as the gelatinous skin and a lot of it from the lesion when it is in it’s (for lack of better words) beginning, blister stage… before the lesion is broken. It is an oily substance that does not exhibit any clotting action as you might expect from blood serum. As my scalp is covered with the blisters and the itching is enough to make you contemplate suicide, I have just let loose and scratched (my now shaved noggin) with the abandon of a tick infested, six-legged dog. I noticed an interesting smell on the gunk that I removed from under my fingernails. To my surprise and dismay, it had the odor of “machine oil”, but not quite as strong. “The gunk” is comprised of as near as I can tell… the fibers (in my case black and clear), the opaque gelatinous substance and the oily liquid. Trying to gather as much information as I can between Dr. visits, I rolled the gunk into a BB sized ball and lit it on the end of a large sewing needle. Once lit… it burned by itself until it was a clump of charcoal 1 tenth the original size. I tend to believe that this oil base is what keeps the lesions from healing, but of course I can’t be sure. One thing that I don’t agree with is the fiber in a scab…. they are certainly there… but anything can get into a scab while it is forming and I think it is counter productive to concentrate on that when there are far more interesting and unbelievable things to investigate.
I did not count the “Permethrin” prescription as a treatment because my Doctor thought right from the gate that it was questionable course of action. She told me up front that she had never seen bites like these and doubted what I had was caused by an insect. I guess I sort of forced her to prescribe it because when you feel like your getting chewed up alive and something is crawling on you… you assume it an insect of some sort. She was right… but so far has been only able to tell me what has NOT been happening to me.
Again, shotgun, grabbing at something and blindly running with it… Jeheezuzz…What about this statement “Occasionally getting out of my head” suggests that I take methamphetamine? Or that I am an addict? If you “Occasionally” have a beer are you an alcoholic? Come on now!
This stemmed from an ER Dr. that was convinced that my rapid heartbeat, high blood pressure and lesions were from “meth” use (which I understand now). I begged him to give me a blood test and was refused because he would not administer frivolous tests to prove a point. This man was so sure he was right, he gave my friend (whom I brought for moral support) a print out describing the signs of “meth” abuse and formication. My friend, who now suffers from MY delusion, was incensed at the Dr’s attitude.
It was also a response to something I read here about methamphetamine being the cause for this disease. I don’t agree, but searching back I remembered taking what we used to call “Beans or white crosses” in college. They seemed harmless (at the time) and would allow you to get a lot of studying done and made me sound smarter than I actually was. Yes, I told my Dr. because I don’t know if there are mechanisms that hold the substance in your body… like some cortisones. That was over 30 yrs. ago and although I will admit to trying just about every substance under the sun, have not even put so much as glass of wine in my system for over 20 yrs.
To stop you from running away with another description, please allow me to exchange the word “insane” for “unusual”.
Michael, to answer your Q. I think I may own 3 or 4 black T-shirts and have not worn them in a long time…. Where I would be picking up these oily fibers from is beyond me. The fact that they are inside under the skin tends to make me not want to accept such a simplistic answer… when that answer does not explain the “biting”, “itching’ and “crawling”.
It should be obvious to you by now that sufferers of this disease are having one hell of a time getting an accurate diagnosis… if they can even get a physician to listen to them. Do you guys honestly believe that the sufferers are all delusional and now are suddenly coming forth because they have a common name to attach to this? I suggest you read up on what delusions are in the first place and re-examine the chain of evidence that leads to their diagnosis (DOP or Morgellons). How many have complained about biting, itching and fibers first, before they even heard the term Morgellons? Most, I suspect if my experience is any barometer. Why is this “delusion” more common here in San Francisco than say…. Milwaukee? Being a cynic is healthy, questioning everything and not accepting everything at face value keeps things honest. But blind cynicism is destructive and says a lot more about who you are than you imagine.
I don’t fault you for being cynical, but I guess what pisses me off the most is that one day, when this horrible malady has a medical name and hopefully a cure… and sufferers are exonerated and deemed sane … you and your cute names that you hide behind will disappear into the ether and will never have to face the people you have made feel even smaller for turning to what they thought at the time was the only place left to get help or compassion. You will just move on to the next cause celeb, change your cute names and start in on your next bashing.
I know you will have more to say and there is NO WAY I could get the final word in… so have at it. I have said all I am going to say here. Thank you (my own P.A. jab) for listening.
No. I believe, as you do, that some people have delusions as part of their medical problems. I think most people who self diagnose with Morgellons have very real sensations of itching – but that the causes of that sensation are highly varied, and include physical and environmental factors.
Morgellons is a long list of symptoms, without any evidence of a common cause.
Have you considered that they are not getting an accurate diagnosis because the doctors don’t know what is wrong with them? I know that sounds a bit odd. But unfortunately not all symptoms can have their cause tracked down and solved. Medicine is not that advanced. Itching is not fully understood and as many as one third of cases of itching never have a cause identified.
Different people have different reactions when told the doctor cannot figure out what is wrong with them. Some would prefer a quack’s “diagnosis” of Morgellons over “we don’t know”, when actually the latter is much more accurate, and will lead to better treatment.
Well… I am sure they don’t know, that much is obvious. But my concern is that in the same breath as “I don’t know what is wrong with you” (which is terrifying enough) comes “therefore it’s not happening to you…. therefore you are delusional”. History is full of cases of unshakable beliefs and people have suffered immensely for touting new ideas. With all the gene splicing, new chemicals being made and experimentation going on, it seems perfectly plausible for there to be a new emerging disease on the horizon. There are a lot of malady’s that were unheard of 100 years ago and emerged as a result of our changing lifestyles and I would bet that the initial sufferers were “Delusional” also.
I can’t help but feel that the Doctors that see this (fibers and all) are afraid of being ostracized just like the patients. The real danger as I see it is that by calling it a “quacks’ diagnosis and the patients “delusional”… there will be no attempt to seriously investigate what this is… I mean why bother?
Lets break it into two things: the itching, and the fibers.
You go to the doctor, you tell him you are itching, he’ll do some tests, and tell you he does not know why, but here’s some anti-itch medicine you can try.
You go to the doctor, you tell him there are moving fibers in your skin, he look at them and says they are just moving due to air currents and static electricity and they look like lint.
Where does the delusional part come in? What exactly is this new idea? What exactly does the patient need to do to be diagnosed as delusional, rather than just itching, and making a mistake about where the fibers came from? Can you show me a patient’s account that demonstrates this.
Either there are fibers growing out of your skin, or there are not. 10,000 patients see 100,000 doctors, and all 100,000 doctors are simply “afraid of being ostracized”? Really? Nobody looked at the fibers, they just told the patients they were delusional and did not even treat their itching?
The fibers are growing under my skin… my Doctor has seem them and does not have clue one. My Doctor has not gone on NPR to tell the world she believes, Why? It does not take a rocket scientist to understand why.
Don’t be silly of course not, things are just not that cut and dry. That would assume that 100,000 doctors believe… wouldn’t it? We know that is just not true. But some accounts I have read of Doctors, nurses and medical personnel that have come forward (some of them sufferers) have (you just did it yourself in your last post) been called “Quacks”. That would, it seems to me, stop a percentage from coming forth, would it not?
Look… I can not explain why dermatologists are behaving this way or why the FBI can’t find the fiber in its vast library or any number of the behaviors surrounding this. So I have put my faith and my body in the hands of the Kaiser Permenente Norcal research facility where I will NOT receive treatment, but will do my part in the hope that one may be available after the research is done. Why not take me up on my offer and see this disease for yourself? I can afford it. We could use your voice. I promised myself I would not get into a fruitless dialog here so I am done…. I just wanted to weigh in and get my voice heard. I will however monitor this site to see if there is any brave souls willing to take me up on my offer. Dinners on me!!
So are you part of the CDC study? Anything happen yet?
When was your doctor on NPR?
I am signed up and waiting for my turn. One big benefit will be the psychological tests, we will be given the results of those from what I have heard…. I know I am OK, but nowadays you need a clean bill of mental health certificate in order to seen by your dermatologist. Unfortunately I won’t be privy to any of the research data…. I’ll know when everyone else does.
Read the comment on my Doctor and NPR again… It was an example of a Doctor that has seen what I have described and NOT stepped forward (I firmly believe) because of the fear of criticism. Thinking about that I take it back… she may be leaning toward DOP and is afraid I’ll ostracize her for not giving me the diagnosis I crave.
Found out I won’t be able to participate because I am not a “member” of kaiser….. oh well, I guess I will have to do something else.
I have suffered fir as many as 3 years but at least two and a half wilth detailed point by poin symptoms of Morgellon’s. I thinks it’s outrageous that a condition with unique and physical manifestations can be pushed off as delusional. This is a cover up by the CDC until they can figure out what to do. delusion – A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness, as in schizophrenia. Hmmm, a number if websites and several thousand case studies that all are saying almost identical systems. Specimens may be collected. The fibers are there. This condition seems to attack your weekest link. My brother has it and it was his lungs, mainly. I had it and it was my abdomen. Two stomach surgeries and ulcers and there’s my week spot. I have been in the hospital 8 times since Christmas Eve. & times I was admitted. My wife of almost 20 years and 3 kids are no longer living with me because of the abrupt psychological changes. I lived in NW Florida and lost faith in the hospitals there. Came here to Dallas for better healthcare. I had been on Cephalexin and Amoxicillin. My doctor, reallu because he couldn’t stand to here me complain any more prescribed 500mg/Day 3x a day for 7 days of Metronidazole. At the end of the 6th day, at night, I was in a store and all the twisted up muscle and tissue that contained these black fibrous but fragile material. It was normally encased in a clear gel. I had a lesion on my back since May of 2000. It just healed within the last month. I am aure there are people with psychological delusions they are infested with parasites. Pay attention to physical manifestations and don’t just say I don’t know. Often times physicans think patients have had to “pick” at it for the lesions to stay so long. Nope. It’s going to be there as long as it will. I took all kinds of antiparasitic drugs. Often giving me false hope after feeling better for a week or so. It alsways came back. As I said, when my doctor gave me 500mg Metronidazole, 3x a day for a week. I was about 155lbs then. The end of the 6th night it was like “it” died. I’m sure there are many entities causing this. They seem to act as one combined force. If you’ve never had parasites, you don’t understand the state of just knowing if their is something foreign and not human growing and trying to attack your body. At the end of the 6th night on the medication, everything in my back just let loose. Primary place it got me was my lower lumbar and straight through to organs in my abdomen. I did also end up with a hookworm unfection. I believe that was the problem in the interstinal area and very easy to get rid of.
Just though I’d offer some hope and confirm what others have said, that Metronidazole does work. Just make sure it’s the correct dosage and take at least with one other antibiotic and don’t miss taking these. This is not a forgiving organism.
By the way, I do have a microscope here. Although my brother was hit in the lungs and I was mainly in the small intestine, I had an open lesion on my back for over a year. I’d look at these fibers under a microscope. When I recently checked what my brother has been caughing up, it’s the same fibers. We’ve been living in different states (Florida, and TX) for 7 years.
Both of us believe we’ve had the problems for two to three years with physical manifestations for one to two years.
Metronidazole will take care of it. If you have a reluctant doctor, order from CA. Very cheap there and no prescription required.
This condition does habe mental consequences. If you have this it’s difficult to trust your own thoughts and psychs will be telling you you’re bi-polar, depressed, border-line-personality disorder, obsessive compulsive, ADD type symptoms.
Hey, wait until you’re in a conditiona you KNOW there are parasites roaming your body and everone is labeling you as crazy. Hell, after this I’ll have to go through treatment for post tramatic sress disorder.