The recent CNN story on Morgellons (text version) was interesting as it focused on Randy Wymore’s examination of fibers, and actually showed his colleges removing fibers from a patient, and looking at them under a microscope.

In absence of any epidemiological studies, the only thing that makes the claims of Morgellons at all notable are the “fibers” that sufferers claim to have emerging from their skin. Now I’ve written quite a lot about this before, basically showing that fibers are everywhere, and that many of the photos of fibers shown can easily be identified as Kleenex, or clothing fibers.

The whole Morgellons case hinges around these fibers, which was the thing that originally got me interested – I think it’s high time that I get back to examining the fiber evidence, starting with the CNN video.

First of all, we have Dr Wymore in a thrift store, collecting fiber specimens from clothing with some scotch tape. The reporter then asks him if the fibers he found from Morgellons patients resemble clothing fibers. He responds “No, not at all, totally different”.

wymore-thrift-store.jpg
Here’s what Dr Wymore told me, on May 22, 2006:
You see, we do indeed find environmental contaminants in samples from Morgellons sufferers. Definitely cotton, likely from bandages and cellulose fibers, probably from tissue. But, we are not interested in the contaminants that are everywhere. We take the time to sort through the known fibers to examine in more detail the ones that look unusual.”

So what he’s saying here is that he ignores that fibers he can identify, and keeps looking until he finds fibers he cannot identify. I asked him if he did not think that in any sufficiently large sample of household fibers (laundry lint, for example), there would not be some fibers that he would be unable to identify – but so far he has declined to answer.

Later we have some footage of the Morgellons group examining patients, plucking fibers off them, and looking at them through a microscope. Dr Rhonda Casey, DO, points at a small blue fiber and says “That is definitely not a hair, the blue thing there”.

blue-fiber-on-skin.jpg

The fiber she points at looks exactly like standard tiny lint fiber. Probably blue cotton. She carefully take it off, and makes a slide.

This is what they saw”, the reporter says, and shows this picture:
microscope-blue-and-red.jpg
There’s a blue fiber in the middle that looks like a cotton fiber. For some reasons there are a bunch of other fibers that were not next to the blue fiber before. The clear ones in the middle look like cotton or paper, the large brown ones look like human hairs (at about 80 microns they are the correct size). The very dark lines look like the edge of a large air bubble.

We then see several other images, one of which is clearly a damaged human hair – you can even see the scales.
broken-hair-3-50.jpg

So what’s going on here? Randy Wymore is finding fibers that look different (to him) from clothing fibers. Well, notwithstanding that it’s almost inevitable that you will find unidentified fibers wherever you look, what might make ordinary fibers turn into the Morgellons fibers?

Let’s take a simplistic explanation. Say someone suffers from something that has symptoms of neurotic excoriations (they pick at their own skin, consciously or unconsciously). They are going to have many open lesions on their skin (forearms and faces being common areas). Now lesions are wet and sticky, so naturally they will have several tiny fibers stuck in them. Lesions also heal, so the tiny fibers become embedding in the new skin.

A few months later, just like a splinter, the fiber works its way to the surface of the skin. It may emerge at the original lesion site, or it may have migrated a few inches over. Is it surprising that a small blue piece of cotton that has spent many months under the skin, now looks nothing like clothing fibers plucked with scotch tape at the local thrift store?

That’s just a theory – but it’s a nice simple theory that explains things without introducing a mysterious pathogen. Occam’s Razor: “entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity”. Before claiming that because he cannot identify some fibers, then a new disease exists, Professor Wymore must explain how he has fully discounted the multitude of far simple explanations.

I’ll simplify this to two questions:

1) In any large sample of household fibers, will there not always be some that are unidentified?
2) If a clothing fiber were embedded in the skin for a long period of time, and then emerged, would you be able to identify it as a clothing fiber?

162 Responses to “Fibers on CNN”

  1. Bottom line… he too, is a man with an illness. “They” were on Coast-To-Coast radio, again, last night. My AM radio reception was too poor for me to hear it, but I got periodic feedback from my daughter on it, mostly, “OMG, mom, you can tell from listening to them, that they’re….”

    You know, the illness they have in common has quite a few causes behind it, but we, here, (and I hate saying this, but it isn’t something entirely not feasible), could be inadvertently placing ourselves in danger.

    Here we are, wanting to provide nothing more than a service to counteract any readers’ ideas , who hear about the spread of this lunacy named “morgellons disease” and fall suseptible to the suggestion.

    Look at the interference it has stirred in the community of victims of this particular illness. We aren’t even addressing them, we aren’t reinforcing their delusions, (like all the literature advises), and yet, they are here.

    We don’t know what their particular states of mental health are, that has caused them to have such problems as they do, but it’s clear that they want to force their delusions onto us.

    None of us have handbooks on how to deal with such people, and it freaks me out!!! Our society has never seen such a thing as this phenomenon, unfolding, and unravelling, right before our very eyes, so out in the forefront of things. I hate it, and I don’t know what can be done to stop it, but I think our Surgeon General and Animal Rights Groups need to step in before it gets any worse, though. It’s gone on too long.

    They think there is lack of research into the one illness they all have in common, and we all know that isn’t so. More can be done, yes, but treat it in the meantime. Lord, what a mess. What a crisis!!!

  2. Twenty years ago, I had a VERY close encounter with a windshield. Quite a lot of glass was picked out of my face in the ER, of course, but quite a lot of smaller bits remained to work out on their own, and most did before the skin healed over. The relatively few shards that didn’t surface before being trapped beneath scar tissue, however, to this day continue to seek paths of lesser resistance, and occasionally emerge – quite a distance from where they went in, out of skin that was NEVER BROKEN.

    When that happens, they appear first as an itchy little bump, develop into what looks like a whitehead with a very solid center which can last for several weeks if I leave it alone, and I usually do. Finally, what emerges looks nothing like a piece of windshield glass. The glass has, over the years, been encased in tissue and frankly, could be mistaken for some of the “parasite / seed pods” so often described over at Lymebusters.

    So, yes, it is absolutely possible for foreign objects to become trapped under healed skin, migrate around over time and finally emerge looking nothing at all like they did going in.

    regards

  3. I’ll simplify this to two questions:

    1) In any large sample of household fibers, will there not always be some that are unidentified?
    2) If a clothing fiber were embedded in the skin for a long period of time, and then emerged, would you be able to identify it as a clothing fiber?

    answer ( in my opinion )
    1.yes
    2.yes, with chem. analisis and a few other simple lab tests. probably.

  4. What you’ve both said is so relevant. When I was ill a few years ago, everywhere I’d had sutures (some dating back to nearly 40 years ago), migrated and came out.

    Why is the MRF team of experts, those “highy respectable, renowned physicians”, as morgie folk refer to them as, obsessing over this, though? Doctors get sick too, is the “simplest answer”, and the “nicest answer”.

    I don’t have a strong background in chemistry, but consider all the biochemical events involved in our bodies’ immunological processes. I can’t rule out that certain environmental fibers “would be” that easy to analyze after going through those processes.

    Haha, but why the hell do it in the first place?!!!

  5. I’m only suggesting the “environmental fibers migrating through the skin” theory as a possible explanation of a few Morgellons cases.

    I’m sure some fibers could be identified after going through that, given the right battery of tests.

    But suppose it were cotton – what exactly would it look like after coming out? I don’t think then you would so easily recognise it. Cotton would also absorb a lot of stuff from the body – antibodies, all kinds of bodily fluids. Then when emerging from the skin, it would pick up all kinds of stuff – sebum, dermal cells, etc – how exactly are you going to determine what it is? In fact, it will have so much biological material attached, you might assume it’s something created inside the body.

    Again though, that’s only going to account for a fraction of Morgellons fibers.

    But consider all the stuff Morgellons suffers put on their skin – all kinds of ointments, salt rubs, bactrin, even bleach. They soak for hours in tubs of enzymes, they zap themselves with electricity, they shine ultraviolet light on their skin, they subject their clothes to a batter of abuse, bleach, borax, boiling, insecticides. It is quite possible that their once normal cotton fibers have become unrecognizable after being abused in this manner. They won’t resemble the fibers Professor Wymore collected from the thrift store.

  6. “But consider all the stuff Morgellons suffers put on their skin – all kinds of ointments, salt rubs, bactrin, even bleach. They soak for hours in tubs of enzymes, they zap themselves with electricity, they shine ultraviolet light on their skin, they subject their clothes to a batter of abuse, bleach, borax, boiling, insecticides. It is quite possible that their once normal cotton fibers have become unrecognizable after being abused in this manner. They won’t resemble the fibers Professor Wymore collected from the thrift store.”

    Funny, I didn’t do any of this back in 1992, and yet I still had fibers arising from my intact (I don’t have lesions to “shove fibers into”) skin. Remember, I hoped it would just go away on its own. Again, you portray all those who suffer with Morgellons through the words of a few on Lymebusters. Do they speak for me? No. You embellish a lot too.

    “all kinds of ointments, salt rubs, bactrin, even bleach.”

    Hmmm…ever been to a spa? They sit in mud baths. Ya know, any person who ever cleans his/her dwelling has probably come into contact with bleach, also in the water, also in the pools. Unless you’re the wicked witch of the west, you probably won’t melt. I don’t believe anybody is dousing themselves, or we’d of heard about that.

    “They soak for hours in tubs of enzymes”

    So, if I toss a little papaya/pineapple to my bath, you’d disapprove? Who has the time or desire to soak for “hours” anyway? Maybe you, certainly your posse, but I don’t.

    “they zap themselves with electricity”

    It is my understanding that the zappers are battery operated, and work on radio frequencies. I don’t believe the zappers can do anywhere near the harm the military zappers (ultrahigh frequency radios) can do. I used to work with those. Those you should be concerned about, whereas the little battery operated ones not so much.

    “they shine ultraviolet light on their skin”

    What? Are those Morgies tanning again? You’d think they knew better. As much as I try to avoid the sun, it always seems to be there. Go figure?

    “they subject their clothes to a batter of abuse, bleach, borax, boiling, insecticides.”

    You don’t do laundry now Michael? Got someone to do it for you? Ask them how they do laundry. Most laundry is abused by bleach, borax, and very, very hot water (especially if you have kids!!!) Perhaps they put insecticide on their laundry, or their body, I don’t know. I do know that insecticide gets on my clothes when they start spraying the farms nearby, or when they do aerial spraying to kill off the virus carrying mosquitoes. In Ca., it might actually be a good idea to toss in a little insecticide to keep the westnile buggers away if that’s what it takes.

    “It is quite possible that their once normal cotton fibers have become unrecognizable after being abused in this manner.”

    Sorry, but, are you premeditating excuses for when they determine that the fibers are not textile? Sounds like it. Don’t wet your pants just yet.

    You never address my questions Michael. Why is that?

    Aherah

  7. My god of all people, it seems you are the one in denial. I understand this is a frightening illness, but to deny all proof and grasp at straws like you are, WOW. take a deep breath and try to understand that you are incorrect in this case. As more time goes on this will only be made clearer, so if I may offer a suggestion. Please put your critical thinking ability to good usage. Help those that are suffering instead of placing up a wall. Not only would this be a good thing as far as your karma is concerned, but when all the facts are ironed out, you will feel a whole lot better about yourself.

  8. Southcity, I couldn’t agree more. Yet, it is as if they need to believe that this disease isn’t real. For them, it’s more than, shall we say, skin deep. It is scary for us, but worse for them. Who knows what psychological processes are interrupting their ability to reason.

  9. Two simple questions…
    1. Have either of you ever had the suggestion, from a doctor, that you need something for anxiety?

    2. Have either of you ever been diagnosed as having delusional parasitosis?

    I think neither of you should worry about us, here, thinking that we are going to be stricken with anything. I certainly am not concerned with military zappers, either, and, haha, if I am a part of “Michael’ posse”, I do know how to take of my skin, and my overall health.

    Y’all, really now…what are you all about, that you think doesn’t show so blatantly?

  10. Frankly, I think my ability to reason is just fine. However, one thing I simply cannot figure out is why YOU care what I think? Is my skepticism harming you in some way? Do you suppose that if we just all start believing in Morgellons, our combined belief will cause a white light to appear and cure you?

    This is not a high traffic blog. The few people posting here are not keeping your doctors from seeing what you say you see. The people posting here are not preventing the CDC from investigating your complaints. Convincing me will change nothing for you, regardless of whether Morgellons is real or not.

    And yet you still come here to argue the matter, and to tell us how much we are damaging our karma. It’s probably my impaired ‘critical thinking skills’ but I don’t get it.

    Why do you care what I think?

  11. This post has been removed by the author.

  12. Um, uh, well, as far as “premeditating excuses for when they determine that the fibers are not textile”….

    Gee whiz, they could just be people’s own connective tissue fibers. The point is, nobody in their right mind, especially a Phd in Physiology, should be in an obsessive pursuit of something that is not mysterious.

    A woman with delusions formed a “foundation” based on a 400 year old “disease”…

    Hello? A bunch of people with the same problem, DOP, heard about “her made up disease”, based on nothing more than her own delusion. There’s no disease. There never has been.

    The only one is DOP, and she formed a case definiton to try linking together what all the DOP patients have in common, making “that” all part of her made-up disease.

    Now, can any people suffering from it realize that is the reality of the situation? Why, hell, no. Not even with the rest of society knowing it.

    Why? Well, I ain’t splainin’.

  13. Something else I want to share concerning fibers…
    Back when I was ill in 2002, all the broken spider veins in my thighs even came out of my skin. That was a nice thing, too, because they’d been unsightly. I didn’t pick, I didn’t probe, nor pull them out. I was gentle to my skin when all that happened to me back then, as I was accustomed to being all my life, due to skin allergies.

  14. Dammit. I want my spider veins to go away! ;)

  15. Some more truth about “Morgellons Disease”
    - Scalp ‘hair’ will grow into facial tissue
    - Into eye brows
    - Ear canals
    - Fibers will emerge from eyes, nasal passages, mouth, ear canals
    and every other orifice in the human body
    - Fibers will emerge from fully intact skin (no lesions)
    - Fibers (ie. Size, colour) will be very visible to the eye and anyone watching
    - Fibers enter the human skin via the lymphatic system (immune system)
    - Growing literally like a plant via all lymph glands, lymph nodes, lymph vessels etc etc

  16. >>- Fibers (ie. Size, colour) will be very visible to the eye and anyone watching

  17. “If this is true, then why is the greatest complaint among Morgies that their doctors can’t see it? ”

    It depends on how severe, or how long one has had this disease. Things change, but not for the better. Remember I am in Australia. We are tired of waiting on the CDC.

  18. >>Remember I am in Australia. We are tired of waiting on the CDC.

  19. abac68,

    Sorry you’re so down and under. If you aren’t satisfied with the CDC, why don’t you petition your own government, and quit worrying about ours?

    Tall Cotton

  20. Some more truth about “Morgellons Disease”
    - skin and lymph glands literally become one
    - skin sticks like glue to lymph glands
    - one can literally pull skin out of joints, skin rolls, moves, slides all these things are noticed by all observers.
    - Changes of the outside facial tissue can be noted by looking inside ones mouth
    - Skin is taken for a ride twisting and turning, upside down, inside out, side to side
    - Eyes swell, so will face and neck.
    - Hair line on scalp changes
    - Hair line appears to grow half way down forward
    - Head will change shape

  21. Why don’t you ask the CDC themselves (since somebody on this blog seems to have some good connections) how many countries worldwide have given them a phone call about “Morgellons Disease”? We weren’t all born stupid.

  22. Well, Jeezlouise, I sure wouldn’t wish anyone to lose spider veins through that method, haha, but I also lost my freckled face, too, which I can’t say I miss either.

    Abac68, how have you arrived at calling something a “truth about morgellons”? Would it be a correct assumption that you’re basing it on the truth of your personal experience? For everyone who thinks they have this thing called “morgellons disease”, yes, I suppose it would be nice if they could get what they expect from the CDC. I don’t recommend that route, but nobody appears to trust the knowledge of their doctors, which is what brought them all this far to begin with.

    Barbara Boughton is a health and medical writer based in the San Francisco Bay Area, and this is the BEST article I’ve yet to read on the topic, as it relates to a similar scenario as this situation of “morgellons disease” and the so-called victims of it.

    http://tinyurl.com/ehwyh

    Excerpt…

    Fajardo and his colleague David Relman, learned about delusions of parasitosis the hard way. In 1996 the two physicians published a paper in Lancet reporting the discovery of a brand new parasite, which had been found in the liver and in other intra-abdominal tissues of a man with AIDS.

    People with delusions of parasitosis read of the discovery and wasted no time contacting the researchers by phone, mail, or email. All of the calls and correspondence — 20 or 30 each time the study was published — were the same: cries for help. The writers claimed to have long been acquainted with the parasite the researchers had discovered. In fact, their bodies were teeming with it.

    “Often they were hysterical. Some people thought they were about to die,” says Relman, an assistant professor of medicine (infectious diseases) and of microbiology and immunology at Stanford. “Others even told me they would donate an organ to science if we could find out what parasite was attacking them.”

    (It’s a worthwhile read)

  23. >>Why don’t you ask the CDC themselves (since somebody on this blog seems to have some good connections) how many countries worldwide have given them a phone call about “Morgellons Disease”?

  24. Well, rats. I can’t afford the plastic surgery route for those veins, Smiley, because I am an American taxpayer and … oh, never mind, not going there.

    As for this –

    “People with delusions of parasitosis read of the discovery and wasted no time contacting the researchers by phone, mail, or email. All of the calls and correspondence — 20 or 30 each time the study was published — were the same: cries for help. The writers claimed to have long been acquainted with the parasite the researchers had discovered. In fact, their bodies were teeming with it.”

    I notice Lymebusters has a whole lot of new members tonight. But I’m sure it’s just coincidental to the CNN bit.

    regards

  25. Aherah:

    Hmmm…ever been to a spa?
    No. But the general point is that fibers collected from a Morgelons patient are not going to be the same as fibers collected directly from clothing. Since being on the body, and being subject to the various things we do to our bodies (like applying moisturizer, or taking a mud bath) will physically and chemically alter cotton fibers.

    So, if I toss a little papaya/pineapple to my bath, you’d disapprove?
    No, feel free. But don’t be surprised if some papaya genes show up in your biopsy. It’s not horizontal gene transfer – it’s your choice of soak.

    Who has the time or desire to soak for “hours” anyway?
    Not me, that’s for sure – but even a brief shower could have an effect. What does cotton look like after being showered?
    What? Are those Morgies tanning again?
    Light therapy is used for a bunch of skin conditions. Radiation can alter the physical and chemical appearance of things slightly.

    Go figure?
    Yes.

    You don’t do laundry now Michael? Got someone to do it for you?
    I stick some “All” in the machine, and let it go. But even that will have some effect on fibers over time. Other people, such as yourself, do a lot more. I wonder what kind of laundry Prof. Wymore’s sample fibers had gone through?

    Sorry, but, are you premeditating excuses for when they determine that the fibers are not textile?
    No, that would be kind of pointless really. I’m suggesting right now, that Wymore’d determination that the fibers are not environmental is based on wishful thinking, and not any hard evidence. “They don’t look environmental to me” is not a good basis for a new disease. Some epidemiological study might me. Something that actually has some statistical validity.

    You never address my questions Michael. Why is that?
    Would you care to ask some questions? I’ll give them my best shot.

  26. Abac68, here is a link to the US 2006 Federal tax table. When you have remitted your share, feel free to complain about the CDC.

    http://tinyurl.com/9bkvw

  27. The CDC is responding – but their wheels grind exceedingly fine.

    In the meantime, here’s their position:

    “Not a day passes when I don’t talk to somebody who claims to have this,” said CDC spokesman Dan Rutz. “In the absence of any objective review, people have jumped to conclusions and found each other on the Internet and formed their own belief structure. We really need to debunk this if there isn’t anything to it or identify if there is indeed a new, unrecognized disease that needs attention.”

    Seems very reasonable to me.

  28. >>Seems very reasonable to me.

  29. Excuse me for interrupting, but, abac68, I’ve read that Mary Leitao instructs followers who contact her, to:

    1. Buy microscopes
    2. Buy ultraviolet lamps
    3. Contact all their government and health authorities, even providing names, addresses, and telephone numbers, worldwide, to them
    4. Oh, yes, and also, she instructs them to go to Lymebusters’ message board to share

    I think that the CDC has bent over backwards handling this as respectfully as possible, all the while persisting, in their sound recommendation, that people need to go to their local healthcare providers.

    If that recommendation cannot be understood by the population of people it is directed to, therein lies a pretty big problem, yes?

  30. Concerning the CNN film clip, if I were a “Morgie”, I would be quite disappointed. Despite the fact that the Morgellons story was aired on national television, which is a hugh accomplishment from their point of view, I don’t think the story did much for their cause. You could tell that the whold bunch were nuts, so how much could it have helped them.

    Even though I would put very little past a Morgie, I thought that the doctor’s suggestion that these people have been pressing fibers into their lesions sounded ridiculous. It’s not unusual, however, for plant fiber to be found in a wound. Ordinary house dust contains a high percentage of plant debris.

    Tall Cotton

  31. Yeah, that doctor did not come accross very well. I don’t think he spent much time looking into the situation – and so fell into the trap of painting them all with the same brush.

    He did not actually say that they pushed fibers deliberately into their lesions – but that’s what they made it sound like.

    I think superficially the report is a boost for the Morgellons belivers. But ultimately, more publicity means more scrutiny, and the sooner we arrive at some actual statistics.

  32. I don’t have the same interpretation of “pressing fibers into lesions”, or however it’s been stated…”pressing”, “injecting”, or whatever. Having been a person with “symptoms of this”, just through the process of bathing and drying off, particulates can be inadvertently pressed into skin.

  33. I guess I misunderstood. I thought he meant deliberately. I agree that plant particulate is everywhere. It floats into our houses every time a door is opened. It’s in the air we breath and on everything we touch.

    Tall Cotton

  34. Jeesselouise “If this is true, then why is the greatest complaint among Morgies that their doctors can’t see it?”

    When they look, they DO see it.

    Michael’s cdc quote “We really need to debunk this if there isn’t anything to it or identify if there is indeed a new, unrecognized disease that needs attention.”

    “Seems very reasonable to me.”

    To me as well. I’d love to see them debunk this, really.

    Bugs (because I liked him better) “The human immune system produces fibers to encapsulate everything it can’t push out of the body quickly or consume. Why red and blue? I don’t know, but I know that a ruby is made of aluminum oxide, an if you add a little bit of chromium in the formation process, what to you get. Yes, a blue sapphire. Am I saying that this is what’s happening. No. I’m just saying that there are a lot of processes that could be taking place.”

    Thank you. An admission that the FIBERS EXIST in our flesh, and they are not dust. I don’t disagree with you bugs. As I have always said, I don’t know what this is, but it is something. I have also speculated that this could be an immune response in the manner that you describe. I did get a sense that this may have been the direction of Dr. Martin’s thinking (remember him?) since he seemed to view the fibers as a good thing. Even if this is the case, don’t we deserve respectful attention to find out why our immune systems are acting in this manner? Don’t we deserve real explanations?

    I believe somewhere deep in all that cotton, you’re still there.

    I apologize for all of my poor editing skills lately…been in a rush.

    Take Care unfriendly friends,
    Aherah

  35. “I don’t think he spent much time looking into the situation”

    Few do–it’s too much work.

    ” – and so fell into the trap of painting them all with the same brush.”

    You mean generalizing? Like the type of generalizing you do here? Right?

    ah

  36. “I don’t have the same interpretation of “pressing fibers into lesions”, or however it’s been stated…”pressing”, “injecting”, or whatever. Having been a person with “symptoms of this”, just through the process of bathing and drying off, particulates can be inadvertently pressed into skin.”

    Respectfully Mary, you’re reaching. I don’t have lesions. How is this stuff getting into my skin…by pressing it in? How can I press fibers into my flesh? That’s magic.

    ah

  37. Generalizing is the problem here. I try to qualify everything I say so it’s clear who or what I’m specifically applying my statements to. But invariably it gets taken as a generalization. I’m not generalizing – I’m very specific that the situation is very complex and there at lot of things going on. You will see I rail against the simplistic DOP diagnosis in several of my posts.

    The real generalization here is lumping all these people with disparate symptoms together and allowing them to believe they all have the same new disease that somehow the doctors are overlooking.

    They don’t all have the same thing – they all have different things, and need to be treated on an individual basis.

    If you still feel I generalise, feel free to point out where, and I will attempt to be more specific.

  38. Michael, I felt that, in your defense, you had changed the essence of the blasmospos tidbits you had said about Morgies. Changing an argument in order to make it easier to defend just makes you appear confused about what you are talking about. We’re all a least mildly literate here, but good try.

    ah

  39. Ok Michael,

    Do you think that I have fibers coming out of my flesh as I have stated?

    I’m hoping for a direct answer here.

    ah

  40. oops…blasmopos = blasphemous (tired)

  41. “But invariably it gets taken as a generalization. I’m not generalizing”

    Everytime you say “Morgies do this” you are constructing a group of people and applying characteristics to them. Some characteristics may not suit them all (i.e. I don’t bathe in bleach). Some characteristics may not apply to any, but because you refer to them in a manner similar to that used in bigotry, you are generalizing. People of___________ skin color do this. People of ___________religion do this. ___________s act like this.
    Get it?

    ah

  42. Aherah, I don’t think I’ve really changed my argument – perhaps clarified it as I’ve both discovered more, and observed how my exposition had been misinterpreted.

    My earliest posts are still here on the Blog. Sure I did not know a lot back then, but the basis of my argument is the same: the evidence is lacking.

    And as for if you have fibers coming out of your skin – I have no idea. I don’t know what disease(s) you have. I don’t know if the fibers come out of your skin, or if you are mistaken, or delusional. I don’t know anything about your particular case.

    No disrespect to the reality of your situation – but to my overall argument, your situation is irrelevant. Since you are unable to demonstrate your condition to a doctor, then it might as well not exist. I know from your point of view, it’s all too real, but from the point of view of establishing the existence of a new disease, it’s anecdotal at best.

    Maybe you some newly described disease that causes fibers to emerge from the skin. I’d be delighted for some clarity in this situation – regardless of the outcome.

    My argument is that there is no evidence of a common disease, or that the fibers are anything unusual. Suggesting otherwise is damaging the health of several patients.

    Real statistic are what is needed.

  43. In science and medicine, the person is not longer a subject (a unique individual person) he/she is an object (a patient, a diagnosis, etc). The problem with treating people like objects instead of subjects is that they tend to be far more complex than a “thing.” Men objectify women when they see an attractive woman and interpret it as a “hot bod.” Medical science has been doing the same to us, only we have been objectified as “sick minds.” It’s too simplistic.

    ah

  44. The number of Morgellons sufferers who use whatever home remedy is irrelevant to this point. The point is that fibers are changed by various things such as lotion and bleach, and that needs to be accounted for when attempting to identify fibers.

    And since I’m trying to address the claims made on the CNN report – at least two of the patients shown were Lymebusters regulars. So reflecting the predilections of Lymebusters does not seem unreasonable.

  45. I agree, that is too simplistic.

    The situation is not simple at all.

  46. I thank you for your frank, respectful reply.

    “Since you are unable to demonstrate your condition to a doctor.”

    I am not really unable. I hadn’t found a doctor willing to look when I was able; they would literally look away as if they might turn into a pillar of salt is they saw something (very strange). I have figured out how to keep the fibers to a minimum, which means I have less “to show.” I suppose I could allow my health to fall by the wayside again resulting in more fibers, but the fear of getting that ill is too great. Nonetheless, my present doctor believes that I have this condition, but she does not know what to do.

    The “no evidence” argument is odd because there has been no attempt at establishing any evidence. Research to debunk or research to find a course of treatment, I don’t really care. I’d just like to know what the hell is going on.

    Take caution in your blogs. There always lies the possiblity that you could be wrong.

    BTW, are you a Brit? I noticed a British variation in some of your spellings.

    ah

  47. I’m in favor of evidence. My point was that the claims that are being made are claims that demand evidence. They are not saying “we suspect there might be some new disease that has these symptoms”, it’s more like “THIS THING IS REAL!” when the claim seems to be based on a subjective correlation of a subset of the sufferer’s symptoms with a subset of the laundry list of symptoms that the MRF came up with.

    Statistics should include some numbers. I’m glad Wymore is having a grad student do some Morgellons analysis as part of her PhD, hopefully some statistics will emerge. But until then, some precision is required on your part if you wish to make extraordinary claims.

  48. I would like to know who was personally accused by their doctor of injecting fibers with a hypodermic needle. I know perceptions are off, and I realize how many people say things that just aren’t accurate when they’re angry over not being believed. I just can’t quite fathom that a doctor would say that and mean it. Being at their wit’s end, maybe, due to pressure from a patient’s insistence, I guess, while only being human, they could have spoken out of turn.

    To Aherah…Yes, I suppose that when doctors look at patients’ “specimens”, as well as seeing their concerns over fibers and other debris actually in their skin, “they DO see it”.

    If you took whatever advice you’d received from your doctor, then you probably would see your personal situation debunked.

    Then, you could address your real health matters, such as your legs swelling and your chest pains, so you could deal with any other existing, as well as future, concerns for yourself and your family.

    But of course you liked Bugs Alive better than Tall Cotton Aherah…he is the SAME person though. You know that although Bugs Alive was open about everything at lymebusters, as well as on another message board after that, admitting DOP is an intolerable, insufferable, thing to you, as well as to all morgellons believers.

    Poor Jeff can’t succumb to his own enlightment, due to the others…hell, even a lyme specialist, who is, of all things, a doctor of accupuncture…trying to pull Jeff back into “their delusion”.

    “I believe somewhere deep in all that cotton, you’re still there.” Oh, Aherah, please.

    Now, by incorrectly employing the word, “respectfully”, as well as inferring you know me well enough to call me by my name, you’re wishing to convey what?

    Among the vast array of issues you reveal through just the very essence of your writings, I wish you could only pay as much attention to your own words when they’ve been re-posted to you, but attributing your condition to magic is the most sensible thing I’ve seen you utter so far.

    Who doesn’t know that fibers exist in our flesh? Great day in the morning.

    Speaking from a background of experience through having made generalized comments in the past, on morgie message boards, and now, having to deal with those of you who have chosen to take offense here, ah…forget about it.

    In my very strong opinion, when it comes to diagnosing delusional parasitosis, doctors arent generalizing whatsoever in the least.

    If a patient goes in with “their particular skin concerns”, as they do, being first and foremost out of any other health complaints during an office call, resulting in a DOP diagnosis…how much farther do they advance with telling the rest of their health concerns after that occurs?

    Look at the numbers of other doctors many patients consecutively go to…that’s plenty of opportunities to bring up all the other health issues, from A to Z. What’s the one dwelt upon, though?

    I hope you didn’t actually read any of this. The End.

  49. If anyone wants to know “why our immune systems are acting like this”, go to either a lyme specialist, a rheumatologist,
    or an immunologist, for crying out loud.

  50. Dr. Gregory V. Smith is a member of the Morgellons Research Foundation’s Medical Advisory Board. According to the foundations website, he suffers from Morgellons Disease, as does his wife, Judy, who is a nurse.

    According to the website, Dr. Smith stated, “Reports that suggest this disorder may progress and cause autoimmune disorders and psychiatric disorders are frightening.” That sounds a lot like Lyme Disease, doesn’t it?

    I prefer to turn that statement around and say it like this. An autoimmune disorder can progress into a set of symptoms that cause one to believe they have a mysterious disease. It still sounds like Lyme Disease, but now it could be Lyme Disease for some, and Sarcoidosis for others. It could also be any number of other diseases.

    It doesn’t help matters for the Morgellons Research Foundation, or message boards such as Lymebusters, to initiate and/or reinforce the idea that Morgellons is an unidentified emerging disease. There’s other, officially recognized diseases and disorders, and they can also account for the various symptoms.

    Another doctor, Dr. Doug Buckner, is the Associate Director of the same foundation. According to the MRF, he has an extensive background in biology and has suffered with Morgellons Disease for over fours years. What is it about these people that keeps them from accepting one of the already recognized diseases? Is it that they don’t believe that any of these recognized diseases can account for the symptoms? This man should, if he has an extensive background in biology.

    Could it be that they cannot accept a disease that takes as long to cure as Lyme Disease? Maybe they can’t accept the thought that they have one that is incurable. Do they think that a new disease would be any different?

    It is not the Scientific Method to begin with a hypothesis and set out to gather all the possible evidence in support one’s preconceived notions, while rejecting all evidence to the contrary. Yet, this is what is happening with the Morgellons Research Foundation.

    Mary M. Leitao is the foundation’s Executive Director. The foundation was founded by her. According to the MRF website, it was founded “for” her son Drew and all Morgellons sufferers. According to Leitao, Drew has had Morgellons Disease since he was two years old. He is now seven.

    The child was diagnosed with Eczema, another immune disorder, but Leitao, apparently believing she knew more than his doctor, set out to prove that he had a disease she calls Morgellons. By now she probably has the child thoroughly convinced that he has a disease, even more strange than Eczema, one of unknown etiology.

    Out of all these people it appears that only one has all of his mental faculties intact, and that is Drew, a seven year old child. But what is this doing to this child’s psyche? After studying what led up to the founding of the Morgellons Research Foundation it seems obvious that it was not created for Drew, but rather for the child’s mother.

    It shouldn’t take but a single visit to the Lymebusters website to figure out that most of the people that regularly post on the website have mental disorders. Although there’s a variety of physical disorders, many of which have already been diagnosed and ignored, it will probably take years to sort out the mental problems.

    Should we think any differently about the members of the Morgellons Research Foundation? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, chances are pretty good that it’s a duck.

    Tall Cotton

  51. “But until then, some precision is required on your part if you wish to make extraordinary claims.”

    I’m not a scientist. I don’t know how to conduct valid research on myself. I don’t really want to…I want the experts to do that. All I can claim to KNOW is that fibers and various crap come out of my skin. That’s all. The other symptoms I believe are related, as does my doctor. What’s a girl to do? What type of precision would you like. You’ve already see a plethora of video documentation of other Morgies, yet you still cling to this dust theory. Wow, your denial is deep and firm. The research will be done. Then we’ll be able to talk.

    “The point is that fibers are changed by various things such as lotion and bleach, and that needs to be accounted for when attempting to identify fibers.”

    Why isn’t every cloth-wearing person in the world getting these cloth particles in their skin? Why isn’t the world itching and ulcerating like the Morgies? Why are the fibers only blue/black, red, teal/green, white, and clear? Why not yellow? Why not purple? People do wear yellow and purple clothes you know. THINK!

  52. “Or Pinocchio!!” Oh yes your name-calling is so effective. Your points come across so much clearer when you attempt to misrepresent your opponent through name calling. Again, you all are so big on proof here. Where’s your proof that I lie? Is this a political campaign because you sound like a politician. Can you actually say something of substance?

    ah

  53. “Unless” someone is suffering with an illness they truly don’t know they have, deluding themselves into thinking they’re more in-the-know about what is wrong with them than the doctors who have repeatedly told them…then, humankind happens to have a big problem on our hands…which we DO.

    Believers in morgellons disease vehemently criticizing Michael, defending their behaviors, attempting to tear people down, issuing warnings that we’ll all be sorry someday, and we should be preparing to take measures to prevent our own victimizations of their “disease”, fantasizing that we all need to receive a hug from them, are more indicators of delusive thoughts.

    The notion that generalizations made about the group of people at lymebusters doing harmful things to themselves is exaggerated, is another part of the picture. Even the founder has finally issued a mild warning.

    A delusional illness, by any other name, is still a delusional illness.

  54. If Tall Cotton were to waste his time copying and pasting your specific untruths here, Aherah, you would be just as blind to them now, as you have always been when I have tried to get you to realize anything you’ve asked for in the past. You are not our job to fix, here, anymore than you’ve ever been, but I think you are deserving of a special column where people can respond to you with futile suggestions.

  55. Pinocchio,

    You said that there would be no more interruptions from you. You said farewell. That’s just one of the “many” lies you’ve told. I don’t know if you realize it, but one of your “mental” problems is that you are a pathological liar. Do you really want me to prove it?

    Tall Cotton

  56. Did I say it was farwell forever? Can you prove that was my intention? That would be too easy for you. There continues to be a tremendous amount of irony (if not humor) when drug addicts and schzophrenics call other people crazy liars. Yeah, right…

    Smileykins/adapted/Mary, why do you continue to believe that all the doctors think us delusional after you had just seen the piece on CNN? My doctor doesn’t think I’m delusional. Dr. Stricker doesn’t think people are delusional. The number of rational doctors who have begun to accept the reality of this disease is growing. Get your head out of the sand already!

    Michael, because there is no evidence that Morgellons exists doesn’t mean that it does not exist either. It simiply means there is no evidence either way. Obviously, I know that they will find evidence when they look.

    Michael, what did you think of the preliminary findings of Dr. Vitaly Citovsky? Don’t start with the “cotton has plant genes too” business.

    ah

  57. Pinocchio,

    I didn’t say that you said it would be farewell forever. I said that you said farewell. You conveniently left out any mention of the fact that you said that there would be no more interruptions from you. This isn’t about your intentions. I knew you couldn’t stay away. It’s about what you say and how you contradict yourself. And it’s not just occasionally!!

    Tall Cotton

  58. Now, I know the answer to this, Aherah, but for the sake of all those concerned in your life, I wish you had the ability to examine it for yourself. No, I’m not even going to waste time saying it. However, the transparent pathology of your mind shows in everything you say. “Everything you say”, not just a little here and there.

  59. Why isn’t every cloth-wearing person in the world getting these cloth particles in their skin? Why isn’t the world itching and ulcerating like the Morgies? Why are the fibers only blue/black, red, teal/green, white, and clear? Why not yellow? Why not purple? People do wear yellow and purple clothes you know. THINK!

    Good questions. Firstly everyone is getting fibers ON their skin. Everyone with lesions will have fibers in their lesions. Fibers are everyhwere.

    As to why not everyone has fibers emerging from unbroken skin – well it’s not really clear that this happens at all – it’s never been captured on video (although I’d be happy to follow any links you have there). It seems like it would be easy to capture on video, based on the various descriptions.

    The world is not itching and ulcerating like the Morgies, because fibers generally don’t cause disease.

    Why not yellow or purple? I did not find any yellow or purple fibers on my skin, but those are fairly uncommon colors (based on our closet here). Yellow fibers look white under many lights. When I get my microscope up and running again I might answer that one better.

    Still, if you look at morgellonsusa you will see fibers of all colors, including purple and yellow. I’m sure there are other examples of all colors.

  60. What are we to make of this:

    “Dr. Vitaly Citovsky, a Suny Stoney Brook Biologist, says he might have the answer. He says he found a gene that only exists in plants in the skin of the morgellons patients.”

    Sounds fascinating. Is this ALL the morgellons patients? How many? Was there a non-morgellons control group of equal size? It looked from the film clip like he was just holding up one sample and indicating that “this was the one with plant genes”.

    What “gene that only exists in plants” was this? When he says “plants”, does this mean just the plantae kingdom, or does that include fungi?. How were the skin samples cleaned of plant based emollients which are absorbed by the skin?

    That little tidbit of information was interesting – but without details it’s useless.

  61. My mother had it. I’ll recount her story, since she’s not too good on the computer. She had the itching and lesions and crawly feeling for over 2 years. She thought the problem may be parasites; her doctor said it was in her head. She is now with a different doctor. She changed from powder to liquid laundry soap, got rid of a wooden table, and changed the AC filter more often. I don’t know if that helped, but her symptoms gradually went away. She said she had kept samples of skin for a while and that they continued to grow fibers (some red) even when in the jar. She said she tried everything to stop itching, but the only thing that worked was topical clear iodine. But even that was only temporary.

  62. “Still, if you look at morgellonsusa you will see fibers of all colors, including purple and yellow. ”

    That is interesting. I hadn’t paid much attention to that site before. I’ve never seen colors other than the ones I mentioned, and I have clothing in yellow, purple, brown, etc. I don’t ever see fibers those colors coming from my INTACT SKIN.

    Thanks for sharing your story Linda. I’m sorry for your mother’s torment. You won’t find much love and understanding from this bunch though.

    ah

  63. To address “a” plant gene presence…

    http://tinyurl.com/fcwrr

    Morgellons Fiber Study Summary

    Jenny Haverty, Clinical Microbiologist Scientist

    Excerpt:

    In addition, I found rare spore-like structures that were football
    shaped, 12.8 microns long, some of which had a septate-like division across the center.
    Also found were very rare structures slightly resembling the asymmetrical spores of
    Alternaria species (a fungus)…these were 48.64 microns long
    (Alternaria spores are 7 to 10 microns wide and 23-34 microns long).
    These structures were both amber colored.
    I also observed needle-like structures resembling crystals in this sample.

    Alternia Species:

    http://tinyurl.com/hlp7b

    It causes Phaeohyphomycosis:

    http://tinyurl.com/ekx96

    Way back when, Tall Cotton identified Wangiella, and informed Mary Leitao…no reply.

    Read and look at the differentials:

    http://tinyurl.com/eehoc

    (Haha, this is making me feel like I’m back on a morgie message board.)

    There is no such thing as “morgellons disease”.

  64. “That little tidbit of information was interesting – but without details it’s useless.”

    Good questions Michael. Since you claim to be interested in the “T”ruth, why don’t you question the good doctor yourself? His info is public. Ask him to elaborate. Question him hard. I’d like to know how he arrived at this conclusion as well.

    ah

  65. Geeze, why can YOU not ask? When a person seeks their own answers, why try enlisting someone else speak on your behalf? To receive the love you’re after, treat your behavioral issues. Seek things for yourself, and you’ll find all your answers, right there within yourself.

  66. “It causes Phaeohyphomycosis…way back when, Tall Cotton identified Wangiella…There is no such thing as ‘morgellons disease’”

    So he believed himself to be infected with this fungi, but now he and you feel you were delusional. Again, I am totally confused by you. I also am willing to speculate fungi, but I am not willing to say that it is NOTHING. How you two go from one extreme to the other is beyond me, unless you’re still wrapped-up in your “it’s a curse” theory. Curses may go away if your ignore them, whereas fungi infections won’t go away as easily.

    ah

  67. I didn’t say I wouldn’t inquire. But also, I didn’t start a blog on the topic of Morgellons. If Michael is truly interested in getting to the “T”ruth, he should investigate all avenues, not just the ones that confirm what you and he want to believe.

    ah

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  69. Pinocchio,

    I didn’t identify Wangiella from my own specimens. I identified it in one of the MRF’s SEMS micrographs. It’s very obvious that this micrograph displayed a Wangiella hypha. Other MRF micrographs did not.

    I never once said that I didn’t have real lesions. I did, and they were quite grotesque. Neither have I said that the Morgies don’t either. I said that they, you included, are DOP. There is a big difference.

    Tall Cotton

  70. Tall Cotton did not have
    Phaeohyphomycosis. I tried answering your mass confusion over the presence of plant genes in some of the ______ who believe they have morgellons disease.

    You would not be so confused all of the time, if you treated your problems and if you read those links, as well, that I put there, just for you, little babe in the woods, damsel in distress.

    Can you not consider creating a “Help Linda Blog” of your own? That way you could receive all the attention you need, and not inflict your problems onto others. I might even visit there, but this is not a place to “fix” you.

  71. Tall Fuzz, I repeat, you don’t know what we are or are not. You can only know that you have been diagnosed with severe mental/drug problems, and I HAVE NOT. You keep telling me to listen to my doc, why don’t you? Crazy, bug popping (smileykins) drug addicts shouldn’t be attempting to diagnose anybody, much less people they don’t know. You certainly do nothing to boost the credibility of this blog either.

    You may not like what I say, but your attempts to derail my arguments under the guise that I’m not understanding you is transparent. Name calling only makes you appear unable to maintain an argument without resorting to childish tactics, which you are.

    Namaste

    Until next time
    ah

  72. This post has been removed by the author.

  73. Pinocchio,

    Nothing you say bothers me. Nothing you say is on track. How could anyone derail your arguments? I don’t know what makes you think I need to be in someone’s physical presence in order to know they have mental problems. You are a narcissist with a borderline personality. You are also delusional. Your mental disorders are quite severe. Go see a psychiatrist. Ask him if I’m not correct. Just because you don’t know who you are doesn’t mean that others can’t see through your masks. You are so transparent it’s pathetic. And if you don’t like the name, Pinocchio, then quit lying. It’s that simple. Your presence here doesn’t bother me, but don’t you realize it would be better for your own sanity to go somewhere where people like what you represent. I don’t know where that would be, except with the nuts at lymebusters, but I don’t think you’ll find it on this blog.

    Tall Cotton

  74. Aherah, you said a few minutes ago, “Again, I am totally confused by you.”

    Now, you’ve said, “You may not like what I say, but your attempts to derail my arguments under the guise that I’m not understanding you is transparent.”

    “Name calling”? But you just recently mentioned playing this blog like a video game, pushing people’s hot-buttons.

    It’s sad that you think we’ve derailed you, and weird that you harbor so much venom for both of us, past and present.

    Now, if you were really all that confused by Tall Cotton’s and my histories, which you claim on such a regular basis haunts you, causing you to be unable to think straight, you would read our blog, so that you could understand, or have someone translate it to you.

    You’ve made too many predjudiced assumptions leading your little girl side of that pretty obvious appearing borderline personality disorder (for one thing) of yours to make you lash out, when I’ve tried appealing to the adult in you through invitations to read our summaries.

    Before you came onto Michael blog, you had said on lymebusters message board that when you had the time, you were coming here to “defend yourself”.

    “Defend yourself”?…..Nobody had ever said anything about you, but then here you showed up, in full attack mode. Look at what you’ve done, ever since. Go on, look at your behaviors here, look at all the chaos in your comments….anything to get attention, negative or positive, it doesn’t matter, just as long as you get a spotlight on yourself.

    And that was quite an analogy you gave here, on your opinions of men and women/doctors and patients.

    You appear to have serious conceptional problems because of your lowered cognitive skills. I noticed that all along, but you want so hard to be viewed as a “critical thinker”. Actually, you just want to be viewed as an adult, but you lack the skills. I don’t know what else to tell you, other than recommending that you be treated for it.

    I can’t diagnose you, but I am offering suggestions in hopes of you thinking about it. I know you’re miserable.

  75. This post has been removed by the author.

  76. OMG! Look what I pulled out of my lesion!

    CLICK

  77. Smileykins, I am confused about what you do or do not believe because I think you are confused by what you do or do not believe.

    Tall Fuzz, perhaps you are delusional about those lesions too.

  78. “I know you’re miserable.”

    Uhhh…no I’m not. Again, you don’t know shit about me. I’ve got three gorgeous kids whom I adore. I’ve been happily married for many years now. I thoroughly enjoy my career. I’ll be forty in couple of months, and I still get carded when I order a drink. I make plans for a happy future filled with goals. I just get pissed when this disease interferes with my happiness–it doesn’t make me miserable unless the symptoms get bad, or my kids’ symptoms get bad. A year and a half ago (when we met on Lymebusters), I was miserable; I’m not now. Please don’t make assumptions about me based upon your bigoted view of people who have this disease.

    ah

  79. “You appear to have serious conceptional problems because of your lowered cognitive skills.”

    Oh really? Aren’t you a silly little woman. It’ll take more than that to shake my self-confidence, but feel free to keep trying. It’s funny.

    ah

  80. Well, if that isn’t one of the strangest things I believe I’ve ever heard. Really, you’re dead serious? Total strangers are seriously an important concern in your life? If you’re dwelling on us, for whatever your causes are, well, you need to share that with a doctor. Will this help you any(?), because you apparently do not read much to satisfy your worries and concerns…

    We both had:
    Secondary Organic Delusional Parasitosis where there is an Underlying Physical Illness present. I don’t know anything else to try assisting you, I swear to God, I don’t, and I never have. You’ve got a block…a mental b-l-o-c-k, for one major thing. Please, talk to a doctor.

  81. Johnboy? Gimme a comment! Michael, I am so sorry. Aherah, I’m afraid I’ve already known far more than I’ve ever wanted to know about you. You’re here with your “thing” you have for Tall Cotton and me. I don’t know what you want from us. I don’t know what you want from anyone, without crossing over into the topic of mental health. Can you elucidate on our blog, please, as I’ve pleaded with you to so many times to already?

  82. You refuse to grasp the purpose of Michael’s blog and he’s been polite in telling you…

    “And as for if you have fibers coming out of your skin – I have no idea. I don’t know what disease(s) you have. I don’t know if the fibers come out of your skin, or if you are mistaken, or delusional. I don’t know anything about your particular case.
    No disrespect to the reality of your situation – but to my overall argument, your situation is irrelevant.”

    My posts, nor anyone else’s were EVER “geared towards you” to begin with. You have extremely serious issues and you either can’t accept it, or you delight in it. Heavens!! I’m not meaning to play any games.
    You’re a major disruption, I’m sure, wherever you happen to be.

  83. Aherah wrote:

    Since you claim to be interested in the “T”ruth, why don’t you question the good doctor yourself? His info is public. Ask him to elaborate. Question him hard. I’d like to know how he arrived at this conclusion as well.”

    I already did. This is what I wrote this morning:

    Professor Citovsky,

    I maintain a web site dedicated to investigating the Morgellons phenomenon, from a skeptical point of view.

    http://morgellonswatch.blogspot.com/

    I was very interested to hear that you had detected a plant-specific gene in the skin of Morgellons patients. I was wondering if you have any more information on these finding that you are prepared to release? Can you give me any information on the scope of your current findings – how many samples were taken? Were there control samples, etc.

    Regards,

    I try to follow up any source of information. I was having quite extensive exchange with Wymore, but he cut it off. Probably too busy.

  84. Smilykins – To assist you with your allergy problems I suggest you give NAET Oriental Medicine a try. It really does work, but unfortunately doesn’t get rid of Morgellons.

    Dr Nambudripad Allergy Elimination Techniques http://www.naet.com/

  85. I appreciate that, abac68, but I don’t have any problems with skin allergies. Having had them a large part of my life, I know my triggers, and avoid them as much as possible. I’ve been in remission from eczema for approximately 20 years, as well.

    I’m so sorry that the advice you recommended to me can’t assist you any, and I sure hope that there is something that can very soon.

  86. You keep coming back to me and then you whine for assistance because you say I have a “thing” for you. If you don’t want to get into it with me, shut up (I doubt you’re capable of that). I recall you became a lymebusters “ultimate member” in a matter of weeks due to all of your incessant dribble-posting. You’ve said your fair share of lies here too. I read some old blogs today. Did you actually say this?

    “Morgellons, in the minds of most morgellonites posting on message boards they are paranoid about everything, including the food and clothing industry.”

    You are the person who announced on lymebusters that we shouldn’t consume canola oil because something about it comes from the same mustard plant that is used in the production of toxic gases. Boy, did one Morgie put you in your place for that paranoid bit of misinformation. I’ve come to realize that when you and Tall Fuzz talk about the crazy Morgies, you are talking about yourselves, your experiences, and your illness. You continue to transfer your sick experiences/perceptions onto the rest of us. That said, I wonder if when you tell these silly anecdotal stories, if you are actually revealing something about your own troubled soul:

    “I used to work for many years with a woman who had a lot of things going on with her state of mental health. One, was that she had an inferiority complex which caused her to pretend to understand bizarre things that no one else could. In her mind, it elevated her above all those whom she knew couldn’t possibly understand. It was very sad to witness the embarrassment she’d create for herself, never suspecting that she’d ever be asked to enlighten the rest of us. She was compelled to repeat the behavior, never learning from the previous events.”

    This is a confession, isn’t it.

    And now,

    “Who, that has ever worn blue-denim jeans, has not done this and never thought anything about it?”

    Have you seen me wearing blue jeans? You couldn’t have–I rarely wear them. I wear feminine little dresses most of the time, no nylons. In any case, it was about 110 degrees outside; nobody was wearing jeans.

    Among the things I’ve realized by reading some previous posts, is that you and Fuzz do have a hard time forgetting your little Morgellons nightmare:

    “I’ve watched many of these “so-called” hairs jettison out of my skin. They shot several inches out of the skin in an instant, and remained attached at one end, as if they were hairs.

    This occurred at times when I was highly toxic, and when a gelatinous material was pooled beneath or within the layers of skin.

    The pore served as the orfice so that the hair-like filament could be extruded. The filament dried as it contacted the air.

    These “hairs” were usually transparent. I don’t know with a certainty, but I believe that these filaments were statically charged as they formed.”

    Now, why doesn’t Fuzz just say he was delusional about the whole thing? He didn’t say delusional when Michael asked him if anyone else saw it–he said they did. Yes, trying to sort out what you believe from what you don’t believe is somewhat of tangled task.

    You are like a little girl who must close her eyes tight and tell herself that ghosts to not exist, Morgellons do not exist. Close your eyes tight Mary, and maybe the boggie fiberman will go away if you will it away hard enough.

    In any case, Mary, I don’t dislike you, hard as you may try, but I don’t hold much credence in what you think or say either. You see, I don’t think I’m the one who needs help.

    Now you can continue to rant about how crazy I AM.

    ————————————

    On another note, I think I got a better sense of you as well Michael. I know we’ve met before, only now you do a better job of maintaining a cool exterior. Still, I think, all in all, I like you better than before I had read everything. It’s too bad your fungi blogs didn’t go anywhere. There we might have been able to get somewhere that would have been truly helpful to the Morgies. If it weren’t for your two simley fuzzy buddies, I might actually appreciate some of your work. They just get in the way of productive conversation.

    Respectfully yours,
    Aherah

  87. Thanks Aherah. But I’m not sure where we might have “met” before though.

    With the fungi comment, did you mean some of my early posts here, or some other blog? This has been my only blog that mentioned fungi. If it’s another blog, can I get a link – sounds interesting.

  88. Michael, I thought we might have chatted on lymebusters, maybe not.

    Here’s your blog:

    Sunday, April 09, 2006
    Maybe Fungus

    Maybe some suffers have fungus?

    http://www.doctorfungus.org/mycoses/human/human_index.htm

    Seems reasonable

    Tinea actually has hyphae and spores and is very common

    Less common is T. pulvinata.

    There are 20 species of dermatophytes

    posted by Michael @ 11:32 PM

  89. Right. I still stand by that post. Although I’m less inclined to think any significant portion of the cases have fibers from fungus. They simply look at lot more like fabric or cellulose fibers than fungus.

    I have seen at least one photo album of a Morgellons beliver who clearly had Tinea. I have it myself and it can be quite gnarly, itchy and chronic. He had a lot of photos of flaking skin and pustules – tinea symptoms.

  90. Linda,

    Smileykins is right. Canola oil is harmful. No one put her in her place. The Morgie was wrong, just as morgies are usually wrong. No one is transferring anything to you. You’re as easy to read as a book. You are a very sick person, mentally. I hope you find help, but you aren’t going to get much better until you quit pretending. You aren’t a smart person, like you try to project. I don’t care how how educated you are, you don’t have a lick of common sense.

    Now I know you will undoubtedly have something to say about my former drug use. No, it wasn’t smart. But I havn’t used drugs in two years. So say whatever you want. Think whatever you want. But don’t think for one second that you are going to change any minds around here of anything. You have nothing to offer us, and we have nothing you want. If you would try half as hard to get well as you do trying to hang on to the disease you love, you would get well. You’re real problems are mental.

    Now, please go away. We don’t like anything that you represent. You are a narcissist with a borderline personality. You are here to get the attention that you are so starved for, but we don’t like you, and you don’t like us. You are looking for respect and love, but you are neither respectable or loving. You could change if you would, but you’ll never get well until you come down off that self-made pedistal and realize that you are sick, and I don’t mean physical.

    We are all well here, and we have the mental faculties and the education to help others. You are standing in the way, like a court jester, a nonsensical moron. And you are preventing others from getting help. You are obcessed with this group, and that’s one of your many hang-ups, but you come here, not to build, but to tear down. You don’t come to offer anyone healing. You come to sicken. You are also evil, but you know that. Your Father is Satan, whether you believe he exists or not.

    Tall Cotton

  91. “Respectfully”, hmm?

    I would like for you to be well, so that everyone you’re in contact with can also benefit.

    Yesterday…..

    “Please don’t make assumptions about me based upon your bigoted view of people who have this disease.”

    My opinion of you, which I don’t base on assumptions, is way worse than others with your disease, to be frank about it. Since last year, after revealing so much of yourself, as well as here, when you said…

    “Tall Fuzz, I repeat, you don’t know what we are or are not. You can only know that you have
    been diagnosed with severe mental/drug problems, and I HAVE NOT. You keep telling me to listen to my doc, why don’t you? Crazy, bug popping (smileykins) drug addicts shouldn’t be attempting to diagnose anybody, much less people they don’t know. You certainly do nothing to boost the
    credibility of this blog either.”?

    There you went, again, with your typical “we” (as well as with your “ME, ME, ME” thing again), saying…

    “There is no ‘we’ in
    ‘me’.”

    I meant, “we”, as in “Tall Cotton and I”.

    “I wonder why you can’t attack the argument instead of the person. Trying to distract from the topic perhaps?”

    I am not here to argue. Your persistent interference with blatantly false accusations and blaming us so often for your confusion.

    a. We never got diagnosed
    b. We aren’t drug addicts.
    c. We aren’t crazy.
    d. We’re Christians too, like it or not.

    You’re almost enough to make a preacher curse. Haha.

    You got carded ordering a drink? OMG, you’re an alcoholic, Aherah.

    Now, do you see how ridiculous I would be to play on “your level”? Why is it that you “want to play”? Think hard about that.

    P.S. I believe the Canadian was Fighorfly, and Patti had also thought I’d fallen for a little Canola Oil hoax. I believe the FDA over them, but should I have argued? I haven’t the same nature as you.

    You’re always declaring your confusion, well, you’ve done nothing but show more of it. I am tired of telling you to take all of your grievances against me to Tall Cotton’s and my blog. Keep personally attacking me, I’ll keep setting you straight. You came here doing it. While you claim no to read my lengthy comments, if you would, perhaps you would quit making the same mistakes. It’s doubtful though.

    “ME”….whine?

  92. When my oldest son was three, he had some fungus covering his entire back and some of his front. Doctor said ringworm, but on his whole back? How? It sparkled with a blue tint when he played in the backyard shritless. He was placed on nystatin for about two months. When the stuff dried up, his skin shed like snowflakes flying. I did not see fibers on him at this time, and I did not believe that my issue was his…until much later. I wonder about the fungus thing, as do others.

  93. “We’re Christians too, like it or not.”

    I won’t ever claim an allegiance to something I can’t follow; you should do the same. Have you been acting Christian? Really? I guess that makes you a hypocrite then. Or, perhaps, you are Christian like those child molesters Dateline NBC keeps airing. They all claim to be Christians too. I remember a song from when I used to attend church; it went, “they will know we are Christians by our love…by our love…” How much love you puttin’ out these days Mary? (not talking about the kind of love you do with Tall Fuzz either). I just don’t think many of us are feeling it, but you can always “turn the other cheek” and “love thy neighbor as thyself.” Maybe you have been and that’s the problem. You don’t even love yourself. Christian isn’t a belonging, it’s a way of life. Stop stoning the Morgies and act Christian then.

    What time is it in Virginia? Shouldn’t you be in bed. Take a pill.

    ah

  94. You STILL cannot grasp what the purpose of Tall Cotton’s and Smileykins’ mission is, Aherah. But we have none for you….
    YOU are a morgie. We have told our experiences to assist “other people” in the hopes they don’t fall for the confusion that having such symptoms as those that are associated with “morgellons disease” can bring. You are a true-blue morgie…
    personifying it beautifully.

  95. “Now, please go away.”

    You dare to call lymebusters an exclusionist cult?

    I’ll make a deal. If Michael wants me to leave, if he asks me to leave, I will. Easy as that.

    The ball is in your court.

    ah

  96. And what do you know of how a Christian should act? Your little high school dopehead friend is your point of reference.
    I am saved, and you aren’t. And I can save no morgies from themselves. I can tell the truth, and that is all I can do.

  97. “And what do you know of how a Christian should act? Your little high school dopehead friend is your point of reference.
    I am saved, and you aren’t. And I can save no morgies from themselves. I can tell the truth, and that is all I can do.”

    Even I am astounded by how right I was! You’re trying to save us from A CURSE!

  98. Michael said from the beginning that his blog’s mission was not to change the minds’ of your crowd. You said what your purpose of coming here was for, however, you keep attacking Tall Cotton and me, without reading our background on our blog, and keep blaming us for all your bewilderment. I repeat for you to take your grievances to our blog, and you can’t grasp that anymore than you can grasp anything else. You’re an asshole, and then refer to us here as “unfriendly friends”.

  99. Michael, you do know that your two biggest fans believe that Morgellons is a curse cast on us by…what’s that guys name again…SATAN. I guess that makes Morgies Satanists by virtue of being ill. So, where does that place AIDS victims then? This is way more juicy than any of the ridiculous stuff posted on Lymebusters. What a hoot!

    Yep, I’m going to hell in a fibery handbasket. FYI Smiles and Tall Fuzz, that’s my problem.

    AHERAH!

  100. Smilykins & Tall Cotton – I agree with aherah you are not acting Christian like at all.

    This is the way I see it ….. You two and Michael up against 4512 registered Morgellons sufferers worldwide.

    I don’t think so….

  101. Dip. I’m only hoping to do as Michael said…to prevent others from falling down the slippery slope. Most morgie people truly “like” having their disease, even though they aren’t even aware of it, and I know that. Categories 1 and 2. Tall Cotton and I were in category 3, and we didn’t need a doctor to diagnose it.

  102. Well, why don’t you lost souls lay it right out here, and tell me how a Christian is supposed to be. Please do.

  103. I know I haven’t told both of you enough times, already, “take it to OUR blog” where your complaints with us, belong.
    “Tall Cotton and Smileykins”

    “Religious Undertones?”

    “Forsaken by God?”

  104. Aberha…. people with this condition DO soak in bleach, zap themselves with electricity(there is thread upon thread about “zappers”) and use Rife machines, more and more and more. Just because you don’t use these things doesn’t mean the majority doesn’t either.

    It annoys me when people say “Why don’t the doctors LOOK and SEE!!!!!” Though, my quote is spelled much better than I usually see this. Doctors look, and doctors see. They see people hurting themselves, and abusing chemicals, and absorbed in the delusions that what they have is not an ordinary condition such as eczema, but a mysterious government plot.

  105. In my one flurry of deleting comments a while ago, it was just this kind of pointless personal argument I was trying to prune out. However I was uncomfortable with the role of censor, so I resolved to delete no more.

    I don’t really have a big problem with it – as few people will read this far anyway. But it’s still a pointless argument – both sides call the other crazy and mean, both sides fuel the fire.

    I personally don’t give a hoot if you are crazy, mean, or Christian. Individual situations have no weight here. I’m looking at the evidence. Just because someone is crazy does not mean they can’t get sick.

    What I’m interested in is determining what the real evidence is behind Morgellons. Individual data points are individually meaningless. You’ve got to look at the big picture.

    If you want someone to stop arguing with you, then stop arguing with them. Insults should be ignored. Potentially damaging lies need only a brief factual rebuttal. Factual claims need checking.

  106. “If you want someone to stop arguing with you, then stop arguing with them.”

    I believe that was my suggestion too:

    “You keep coming back to me and then you whine for assistance because you say I have a “thing” for you. If you don’t want to get into it with me, shut up (I doubt you’re capable of that).”

    Michael said, “Individual situations have no weight here.”

    Not completely true. It helps me understand Simles and Tall Fuzz’s perspective much better now that I know they believe they are on a mission from God to save the world from Morgies. If they were the scientists involved in trying to understand the disease/syndrome, I’d be very concerned. Personal motivations always play a part.

    In any case, I attempted at a civil discussion with you until it was infiltrated by smiles, again.

    ah

  107. “If you want someone to stop arguing with you, then stop arguing with them.”

    I believe that was my suggestion too:

    “You keep coming back to me and then you whine for assistance because you say I have a “thing” for you. If you don’t want to get into it with me, shut up (I doubt you’re capable of that).”

    Michael said, “Individual situations have no weight here.”

    Not completely true. It helps me understand Simles and Tall Fuzz’s perspective much better now that I know they believe they are on a mission from God to save the world from Morgies. If they were the scientists involved in trying to understand the disease/syndrome, I’d be very concerned. Personal motivations always play a part.

    In any case, I attempted at a civil discussion with you until it was infiltrated by smiles, again.

    ah

  108. Queensbugb,

    Let’s pretend all of the self-inflicted damage is true. Why would people do such things to themseleves?

    ah

  109. “Sometimes skin-picking is preceded by a high level of tension and a strong “itch” or “urge”. Likewise, skin-picking may be followed by a feeling of relief or pleasure. A CSP episode may be a conscious response to anxiety or depression, but is frequently done as an unconscious habit.”

    COMPULSIVE SKIN PICKING

  110. “Individual situations have no weight here. I’m looking at the evidence.” “Individual data points are individually meaningless.” Michael, I understand, and I’m sorry for misinterpreting and
    interfering with the goal of your efforts. I also apologize for inappropriately responding to harrassments that have ensued.

    Upon early viewings of comments from morgie people on your blog, I’d interjected that they couldn’t grasp the reality of the situation. When you’d replied that it wasn’t your intention to try changing any such minds, but to hopefully reach people who may just be hearing of “morgellons disease” for the first time and be assistive towards preventing them from falling for it, I’d felt that by contributing my individual experience, it could possibly lend a helping hand.

    I also have strong opinions, that given the history of how such a thing even came about, and with as many diagnoses involved, repeatedly, for the bulk of people believing they have this, that their physicians were all correct.

    Not that they aren’t terrribly ill, and not that other things aren’t being medically addressed and attended to. First things, first, though. One cannot get to point B through complete avoidance of point A. They interpret what they consider fear in their doctors, (valid, to a point), but it serves to further solidify their delusion, unfortnately.

    I appreciate your intentions, and whatever direction your blog evolves into I wish you success in your endeavors. I’m so sorry, and I know that you’re very busy, but please feel free, if you do have time, to delete where I’ve caused interference in your goal and I’ll refrain in the future with any references to my past individual experience with symptoms of this.

    For the record, to clear up the recent falsehood attributed to me, I have never said morgies have a curse. The 2nd and 3rd links I provided in my last post do show a personal concern of that, but I have never been on any such mission as to save, nor to exorcise, anyone. I gave sound health advice to people on morgie message boards, and, before I knew any better, tried guiding them away from hurting themselves.

    I’m not associated with any group, that when a generalization is made about them, it makes me to go into a bad place and do bad things. I stated here, that this phenomenon is indeed strange territory and I certainly don’t have a handbook on how to deal with morgie people.

  111. CNN

    OSU, Tulsa Doctors Examine Unknown ‘Strings’

    Friday, June 23, 2006; Posted: 9:25 AM(CDT)

    The text version of the CNN news story begins by stating, “It sounds like something from the Twilight Zone. People claiming to have strings, not hairs, growing out of their skin.” I’ve heard several “Morgies” claim that their experience seemed like something out of the Twilight Zone. I remember when I thought the same thing, but that was before I got a better understanding of what was happening.

    The article states, “Doctors and nurses say even they can’t believe what they’re seeing.” Is this more sensationalism on the part of the news reporter and/or the attending medical practitioner. If these people “can’t believe what they are seeing, why on earth would they believe they are seeing it.

    Dr. Raphael Stricker, who treats morgellon’s patients, says it’s really very bizarre to see the strings. Nurse savely, a nurse practitioner who works with morgellon’s patients, says, “This didn’t seem like anything I’d ever seen that was coming out of the human body.” Maybe they need their heads examined, ya’ reckon?

    Time for more sensationalism. “So what are these ‘strings’ and why are they lurking under people’s skin? Disease detectives around the country are baffled.” The term, “lurking”, presupposes that thes fibers are alive, and even have intent. That’s certainly not been extablished. And what, exactly, are “disease detectives”?

    Carol Arledge’s dermatologist told her patient, “If it doesn’t get better, you need to find a psychiatrist.’” I can’t help but wonder if she did, but I think I know the answer to that one. She’s a morgie.

    Doctors at OSU have seen about 25 patients, and say they are convinced morgellon’s is real. But, symptoms can be real, and still not be the result of a new disease. But the medical establishment says that the OSU doctors are wrong, and OSU is by far outnumbered.

    Dr. Noah Scheinfeld, from Columbia University, says morgellon’s is not real. He says it’s all in the patients head. I think “partly” in their heads would be a closer to the truth. But, to insure that I don’t offend anyone, I admit that even this may not apply to all “Morgies”.

    The the news commentator states, “Delusion or disease, the threads of this argument continue on.” Clearly this is being treated as a black or white issue, by doctors and laypersons alike, but it’s obvious that this is not the case. Many of the physical symptoms are real, but it’s also very obvious that many Morgies, if not all, have very serious mental disorders.

    Tall Cotton

  112. Update from Vitaly Citovsky, (the scientist on the CNN report). He says he did not find a plant gene, but a gene that belongs to a bacterium that normally
    infects plants. Something similar to Agrobacterium tumefaciens which should please certain theorists, since it’s “quorum sensing”.

    Still, he’s not in a position to release any details, which means his initial findings cannot really be used to draw any conclusion – especially as we’ve no idea as to the scope or rigor of his study.

  113. Thanks for the information. That gene, in my opinion, could have come from practically anywhere since an open lesion is such a junk pile of material. As you know, however, this bacterium is used in bioengineering.

  114. Agrobacterium tumefaciens

    Sounds like a great title for a new blog entry, don’t you think?

    ah

  115. The fibers entry the skin via the lymphatic system.

  116. abac68, could you explain the process for us, please?

  117. “Let’s pretend all of the self-inflicted damage is true. Why would people do such things to themseleves?

    ah”

    Anorexia, bulemia, obsessive-compulsive tendencies, why do people do these things to themselves?

    Or are all mental health conditions merely the product of “the government” out to get you?

  118. “Anorexia, bulemia, obsessive-compulsive tendencies, why do people do these things to themselves?”

    So, the Morgies on the Lymebusters site have these disorders? You know this? How? Do all Morgies have these disorders or only those on Lymebusters?

    ah

  119. It was quite clear to me that QueenB cited “anorexia, bulemia, obsessive-compulsive tendencies” as other examples of self-destructive behaviour. I didn’t think s/he was suggesting that Morgies also have those conditions, but rather was responding to your question “why would people do such things to themselves” with evidence that a lot of people do a lot of harmful things for reasons the rest of us can’t quite understand.

    It’s not always all about you.

    By the way, thanks for your advice about Diet Coke. However, you avoid diet sodas and have “Morgellons”. I drink a couple Diet Cokes every day and do NOT have Morgellons. Now, I’m sure there’s no link whatsoever, but I usually decline lifestyle advice from folks in worse shape than I. Thanks anyway.

  120. They do the self-multilations to try and “kill their morgies”

  121. ” with evidence that a lot of people do a lot of harmful things for reasons the rest of us can’t quite understand.”

    Perhaps the answer is as simple as they are physically sick and are desparately seeking help in any form. Is it possible that they are willing to try ANYTHING to feel better? I think I read that Travis died from a toxic condition due an overconsuption of pain killers. It must be really awful feeling that kind of pain with no answers or solutions in site, eh? It might even drive you to do things to yourself that you would never have considered before, hoping to find some relief.

    I wouldn’t have commented about the diet coke had you not been acting in such a presuptuous manner yourself. You see, you do pollute your body in a manner that I would not.

    ah

  122. Before I knew what was really going on at Lymebusters, I actually used to try to send a message to stop the self-mutilations, though, ladies.

    I pleaded to not use blow-torches, to not use caustic liquids. I was told to leave them alone because they all knew exactly what they were doing, and I should not allow it to upset me. I told them they were making their skin do what it was!

    They see cells from their own bodies and think they are something they need to KILL. Some even drink bleach.

    Michael cited a mere sampling on the topic, underneath the one concerning MRF’s association with Lymebusters, on this blog.

  123. Aherah said,

    “Perhaps the answer is as simple as they are physically sick and are desparately seeking help in any form. Is it possible that they are willing to try ANYTHING to feel better? I think I read that Travis died from a toxic condition due an overconsuption of pain killers. It must be really awful feeling that kind of pain with no answers or solutions in site, eh? It might even drive you to do things to yourself that you would never have considered before, hoping to find some relief.”

    No simple answers with such situations– when some-one is ill, and desperate, they’re not in the best position to treat themselves. Desperation would be dangerous, don’t you agree? You can see this on Lymebusters everyday. My problem with Lymebusters is that it adds to people’s desperation.

    When people look hard for signs of disease, they’ll find not only those which exist, but some that do not. In desperation, they’ll assume they must treat for this condition or that; they’ll follow hunches. They can’t tell if some eruption is the delayed effect of an extreme treatment in the past, or a sign of disease. They’re complicating whatever disease they have.

    Eventually, yes, they may begin to have delusions. People who are told (repeatedly by different providers) that they have delusional parasitosis have nothing to lose by trying the treatment. If they try bleach and insecticide to kill infectious parasites, why not try anti-psychotics? This would ensure that stress has not contributed to a delusion, in addition to a physical condition.

    Instead, they’re embroiled in Lymebuster’s hostility toward doctors and apparent contempt for the mentally ill. Why can’t they imagine that they could suffer a delusion? No-one can be sure they don’t, because these things can begin and progress with subtlety and arise from reasonable concerns. If doctors advise that you have cause for concern about your mental health, you should treat that, as you would a physical disorder. I believe Lymebusters instills such contempt among its members for psychiatric care that board members considering suicide– desperate people– would probably hesitate to seek help.

    Some members of the board do discuss talk therapy for their stress and depression, but the overwhelming message is that somatization never happens, not to people with Morgellons. The board community denies that self-inflicted lesions could be a major cause of any board member’s skin problems.

    Don’t you want appropriate advice to be offered to all suffering people at Lymebusters? Haven’t some of them experienced situations in which it would be reasonable to explore psychiatric treatment beyond talk therapy or anti-depressives or anti-anxiety drugs? I’m not talking about pointing fingers at individuals. A sticky thread in which it is acknowledged that sometimes it’s necessary to treat the mind as well as the body would be a good start. You never see a positive thread about treatment for obsessions, compulsions, or delusions at Lymebusters. Why do you support a board that denies that side of the issue?

    We don’t want people to join Lymebusters and grow worse.

    By the way, do stay. I will be civil, and I do not have any “knowledge” of your condition. I will not deny, but I won’t assume there is a new disease from anecdotal evidence. My interest in this is that people are informed of the aspects that Lymebusters denies– all the physical diseases which could account for Michael symptoms, AND the psychiatric ones that could develop from the stress of physical illness.

  124. >>You see, you do pollute your body in a manner that I would not.

  125. Jeezelouise, who said she was carded for ordering a drink? Same person who was injured when taking the trash out, by a broken martini glass. I’m sorry, but please. Your diet coke is rather benign.

  126. And the NICOTINE PATCHES Abhorah!!! Remember how sick you made yourself, and wouldn’t listen to me???

  127. Perhaps Aherah’s time would be better spent keeping folks off antspray and sleeping pills, rather than presuming to tell me how I am polluting my body.

    At least I am reasonably certain that Diet Coke doesn’t cause fibers to emerge from a person’s skin. I think I’ll have another!

  128. “My interest in this is that people are informed of the aspects that Lymebusters denies– all the physical diseases which could account for Michael symptoms, AND the psychiatric ones that could develop from the stress of physical illness.”

    Why do you think we are not in agreement on this? Do you miss the repeated attempts on Lymebusters of people trying to understand this illness from established medical situations? I think it is quite possible that there are many real physical illnesses being pushed under the umbrella called “Morgellons,” but that doesn’t change the fact that no one can tell me why there are fibers coming out of my skin. Fibers that others can see and also find it unusual. If someone can explain, or, at the very least, acknowledge it, Lymebusters would be a whole different sort of board. When good people with medical conditions become ostrasized to the extent that the Morgies have, the world no longer looks very friendly. Fear takes over.

    I’m not always in agreement with everything posted on Lymebusters, but hey, I’m not in agreement about a lot of things that go on in the world. How much pull do I have?

    I have to go. I don’t have time to play right now.

    ah

  129. Can you stand by your words when they’re shown back to you, like I “tried” getting through to you on your first day of attack on this blog?

    Abhorah/Upnapishtim said…

    “Mary–I don’t own a microscope, sorry. I’ll be sure to get some help; I’ll just turn on my tv and tune into…what’s the name of that holy roller you watch?”

    Re: KTVU Update Story
    « Reply #8 on May 24, 2006, 2:35pm »

    Small steps Glenn. First, we have to straighten out the delusion thing. The best way to do that is to focus on what we know we know, that we are sick and fibers in our skin seem to be involved. Once we can establish that in the mainstream, then we can talk about what might be causing it. Also, keep in mind that we are not all in agreement about the worm thing. I have seen the things you call worms too. At one time, I thought it was s. mancini. I’ve never seen anything move. When looking under a microscope, I’ve not seen anything that I could positively identify as a worm. I do know that this thing looks wormish, but just because it looks that way doesn’t prove that it is in fact a worm. This is not the time to posit theories about what it might be. Stick to what we know and agree on–that we have something that appears to be infectious.

    Take Care,
    Aherah

  130. Hey, Abhorah, I’m “whining” back at you. In your long list, I missed a couple the other night.
    Here’s the tail end of the one about that poor woman I used to work with, “….She was compelled to repeat the behavior, never learning from the previous events.”

    You said….
    “This is a confession, isn’t it.”

    No. I didn’t go into any more of the woman’s problems, but she was a mess. I was illustrating how peculiar of some morgies to pretend to understand the schizophrenic ones’ theories.

    The only thing I can think of being fearful of is:

    1. a vicious dog
    2. a loaded gun

    Time for recess!!

  131. I’m back.

    I’d like to say thank you here-to-comment for addressing the real issues at hand and being respectful. Now…

    No simple answers with such situations– when some-one is ill, and desperate, they’re not in the best position to treat themselves. Desperation would be dangerous, don’t you agree?

    I absolutely agree, but when no one will treat you with what you know is wrong what is one to do? The big roadblock here is that I know this thing is real. I KNOW THAT. I also know how frustrating and scary it is when you must deal with it alone. I’ve read some posters to this forum talk about how the Morgies are abusing their children. That does piss me off. I cherish my children. I know that they have this, but I don’t let them know it. They have to believe that nothing is wrong. So why is it that, while I practice my denial is full view of the world, my three year old son says “I have bugs in my body” and then proceeds to change his shirt every five minutes because of the “bugs.” I swear I would never let him believe that, and I didn’t allow him to believe that when he said it. I DID NOT IN ANY WAY PLACE THAT IDEA IN MY SON’S HEAD!!! And yet, he said it because he feels it. How can a loving mother who has gone to the lengths that I have, giving-up all of my own professional goals to raise my children myself, deal with a mess like this? How can I help them? Ya know, these are the little people I love more than anything else in the world, but my hands are tied. I just don’t know what to do. Thus, I understand desperation. I understand anger. I understand frustration. I’m living it.

    If they try bleach and insecticide to kill infectious parasites, why not try anti-psychotics?

    Shall we place my mother on them as well? My husband? My girlfriend? My three-year-old son? I don’t recall ever condoning the use of straight bleach, and I’m not convinced Morgies are doing this. Nonetheless, if I know I have one type of condition, why should I allow any doctor to give me a drug for another type of condition? Why can’t we just work on figuring out the initial problem, as some doctors are. It is also my understanding that the antipsychotics have not been successful for Morgies (Dr. Wymore states this in his letter.).

    Maybe they can’t accept the thought that they have one that is incurable.

    I could live with that response, but it involves an acknowledgement that there is something there.

    Why can’t they imagine that they could suffer a delusion?

    I have this expectation that if I were suffering a delusion, it wouldn’t be happening as I calmly listen to my mother talk…and then she sees my delusion. I have this expectation that it wouldn’t be as I casually dry myself off with a towel, and marvel and the two cotton-balls I was just able to rub from my hands. For me, delusions involve some sort of freak-out. I’m used to the fiber/fuzz. I don’t “trip” on it; I just see it, plain and simple.

    If doctors advise that you have cause for concern about your mental health, you should treat that, as you would a physical disorder.

    I don’t disagree with what you say, but I do disagree with the one doctor who gave me this “diagnosis.” I spend about three minutes in the room. I told him I had fibers coming out of my skin. He glanced at them and said dop. Wow. Did I really need to go to a doctor for that one? I guess I expect a little more examination, at the very least. I suppose I don’t respect lazy people who do not consider the consequences of their laziness. Nonetheless, my issues with doctors started when I was in the Army…some strange blood tests. Bugs/tall cotton remembers.

    Some members of the board do discuss talk therapy for their stress and depression, but the overwhelming message is that somatization never happens, not to people with Morgellons.

    I had been one to talk about tinkering with the idea of antidepressants. When you can’t help your kids or yourself with a strange illness, you’re bound to get depressed. I recall that Adapted/Smileykins and Jeff cautioned against it. I recall that others suggested I do what is best for me. I chose not to. I’m not depressed today, but we’re not as sick with fibers and rashes either. It has also been a TREMENDOUS help that my new doctor doesn’t say “dop”–she just says “I don’t know what to do.” I can live with that, although it’s not my favorite response.

    The board community denies that self-inflicted lesions could be a major cause of any board member’s skin problems.

    I don’t have lesions. I don’t believe the majority of people with Morgellons cause their own lesions. I believe there are people with disorders in which they scratch holes into their skin, but I don’t believe that this is what happening in the majority of Morgellons patients. They have been mislabeled, again.

    Why do you support a board that denies that side of the issue?

    I don’t believe that they do. When I said that I needed help, people of different opinions responded–that’s all. I’m still the adult that must make the ultimate decision. I choose not to. I don’t believe anyone should place all of the weight of their decisions on the opinions of a few on any message board. I think the majority of posters to Lymebusters understand this as well.

    But the medical establishment says that the OSU doctors are wrong,

    It’s easy to dismiss what you refuse to look at, just as my doctor did. The medical establishment is firmly established in their long-held unestablished beliefs. They do what they have always done because calling someone dop “works.” Yeah, they won’t go to any more doctors after experiencing enough of that humiliation. It is the fallacy of Ancient Wisdom personified as Delusions of Parasitosis.

    but I won’t assume there is a new disease from anecdotal evidence.

    I don’t know that it is a new disease either. All I have ever claimed to know is that strange stuff is coming out of my flesh. I believe that I have other odd symptoms that are related, but I don’t know that because I can’t see it. Seeing is believing.

    I’m almost inclined to let my health go and get really sick again. Then I can attempt to take some of those videos you suggest Michael. But what if I can’t make it back? You may not know this, but I know that is a scary thought.

    Thank you for what appears to be a bit of compassion.

  132. “Mary–I don’t own a microscope”

    I used to own a 5 dollar little thing from radio shack. I bought it after my son said that there were bugs in his body. I wanted to be sure he wasn’t right. It lasted about a month. I never saw bugs. My older son found it and made it his. He does look at bugs with it, along with a wide variety of other things that he finds in the backyard–he’s curious and smart. It didn’t take long for the thing to get lost in his care. If I don’t own a microscope now, that doesn’t mean I never did. Keep it up though. I enjoy reading some of my old comments.

    You just can’t find a more productive hobby Mary? How about reading a little of that good book you wave around.

    ah

  133. Michael said….
    .
    Excerpt from the other night:

    “I don’t really have a big problem with it – as few people will read this far anyway. But it’s still a pointless argument…..”

    Oh, Abhorah I don’t know what to do, I don’t know what to do. You are just so terrible for confusing me. What is it that you mean by telling me this!!??…..

    “Keep it up though. I enjoy reading some of my old comments.”

    You wanted any lies that you’ve told to be put up here, RIGHT? You DID say that.

    I have a whole long ways yet to go….saved them all in my spare time, after you requested that.

  134. I didn’t have time to read any of your boring, self-serving comments, but the word “bugs” caught my eye. Did you see the new topic here tonight that Michael added? Oh, it’s excellent.

    Anyway, here’s a good one from someone you know, from last month, on Lymebusters…..

    ____, I understand your confusion and you are asking very relevant questions that often have complicated answers but mostly, the answers have not been found yet. I think that when people
    mention the bugs, they aren’t talking in a pathogen-type of bug…..they are saying if we
    consistently speak of insects as the cause of this, we might not get the attention required
    that will offer help in the way of research and monetary assistance. We know there are very few true cases of DOP but outsiders reading here don’t know that. They just equate DOP with bugs,
    plain and simple. Many of us have had real insect infestations in our bodies. I will admit that I am one of these people and I may be a little slow thesedays but I’m surely not delusional. I just don’t think that Morgellons equals bugs (insects) where the cause of the disease is concerned. Something in
    us is attracting them to us but it could be a fungal infection, possibly not even directly
    related to Morgellons as much as it is our messed up immune systems. Maybe Morgellons is
    draining the immune systems, maybe it’s not….but the “bugs” are still the effect, not the
    cause. So if we leave that part out for now and concentrate on the actual pathogen, we will
    eventually discover why the bugs have even become a factor here. It’s just best that we not focus too much on them right now, as we all know how much worse it makes us look…..I think every person here has experienced that humiliation from just the
    disbelief of the fibers. Think how much worse we would appear if we mentioned bugs along with the fibers in these media spots. Thirty years ago if I saw a person on TV talking about bugs coming out of their skin, I would have compassion for that person but I doubt I would have
    believed him. It’s just another of our issues that needs to come out in its own time and I’m sure it will…..we just need to concentrate more on the actual pathogen right now. As for the Septra, it’s not been recognized as a conventional treatment for Lyme (though it is used). But then we’re talking acute Lyme and I doubt any of us has borrelia in the acute stages
    anyway. The Septra did help me with my Lyme symptoms as well as the Morgs symptoms…..over and over we have seen various types of products with the same properties that are helping with symptoms. I don’t know why but I’m sure the research will investigate this at some point. I hope maybe this will answer some of your questions and you will see that the others weren’t throwing stones so much as trying to say something without really saying it (which is probably
    a good thing). I hated to use the “b” word so much here myself but maybe after reading it, everyone will understand what we are trying to say and we won’t have to mention the word so much anymore. Whether it’s true or not isn’t the issue, it’s the fact that we don’t want to get
    into that part while we are getting so much outside attention. We need all the help we can get.

    Hugs,

    Weird bunch. Can’t tell y’all nuttin’.

  135. abac68…ya make your bed, you lie in it.

  136. Aherah said:

    “I cherish my children. I know that they have this, but I don’t let them know it. They have to believe that nothing is wrong. So why is it that, while I practice my denial is full view of the world, my three year old son says “I have bugs in my body” and then proceeds to change his shirt every five minutes because of the “bugs.” I swear I would never let him believe that, and I didn’t allow him to believe that when he said it. I DID NOT IN ANY WAY PLACE THAT IDEA IN MY SON’S HEAD!!! And yet, he said it because he feels it.”

    That is sad. There are other possibilities though. As Smiley suggests, your son could easily be describing the sensations of a known, readily treatable skin condition. Alternately, your son is in tune with your hidden emotions. He does not intend to manipulate you, but children like being the center of attention. Perhaps he doesn’t understands how terrible it feels for you to be worried about his health. He says these things repeatedly because he got a reaction the first time. Maybe he knows that you’re concerned with your own skin health, and he’s copying that behavior in a child-like way. Aherah, there are so many possible explanations. Regardless, your decision to keep your son confident in his own health is a good one.

    So far as anti-psychotics go, if they can eliminate a possible component of a person’s health problems, don’t be quick to dismiss them. Your family members know you’re a rational person, so they doubt that your interpretation of your fibers could be wrong. They listen to you. You may be right about your fibers, Aherah, but does that mean everyone is right about theirs?

    People with psychiatric conditions can be generally rational but have some irrational beliefs. The beliefs could coincide with a skin disease or follow a scabies/lice infestation. They could exaggerate symptoms in the person’s mind. There’s no reason for people on Lymebusters to resort to insecticide or regularly re-opening their wounds BEFORE treating themselves for possible psychiatric conditions. The board moderators and members should not stand by and watch this happen.

    So far as Lymebusters is concerned, I am convinced that people there are making lesions out of minor skin eruptions. They speak of removing scabs and the material beneath to ensure that wounds are “clean.” They state that they often must repeat the process. This includes more than a few board members, and it’s an unhealthy idea. A stressed, depressed, or frightened person can’t be expected to resist such ideas as easily as they would when they’re at their best. The people who come to Lymebusters, we agree, are desperate people. Lymebusters is not a good place for them.

  137. I have removed a bunch of comments from this thread that were simply personal attacks and hearsay. The comments can still be found back at the blogspot version, but were simply cluttering things up here.

  138. have made the following offer to the MRF:

    My name is Russell Altman. I am a lay-person with a business that exports a product all over the world for nearly ten years that makes non-palatable water drinkable. Our customers are mostly governments such as China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Mexico and many other countries in Africa.

    When tested by the Pasteur Institute in France, lab tests (attached) prove that all bacteria are killed within 30 minutes (99.9%). We have many other lab results from foreign governments. Since we have never sold this product in the USA, there has never been a need for testing in this country.

    My friend, Connie, has Morgellons (at least 10 years). Since the product kills bacteria, I put some of it on her arms and since she has a very bad infection in her nose, I placed the product in her sinuses. Within 2 hours she was breathing almost normally. Within 5 hours, most of the redness and swelling had gone. By the end of the 7th day, about 90% of all lesions had healed normally.

    Our product is completely non-toxic, so we began to give it to her orally. This really made the Morgellons mad; Connie’s body began to expel ‘debris’ from her skin. We began hot 30-minute baths with apple-cider vinegar, then applied the product and we saw an immediate reaction; existing scabs fell off, sores oozed and new scabs (normal) began to form.

    Although she still suffers from ‘brain fog’ and chronic fatigue, we says she feel better overall.

    I would like to provide the MRF with sufficient samples to conduct clinical trials at no cost. We only ask that you share your results with us. Also, I propose to donate 10% of all profits from the sale of the product to the MRF. This is a horrible disease and I am most interested in alleviating the suffering from the children.

    Won’t you please reply to me? My telephone numbers are listed below. Thank you.

  139. Russell, your product is “SilverDyne”, a highly dubious colloidal silver product, with no proven health benefits, and many dangers.

    http://nccam.nih.gov/health/alerts/silver/index.htm

    Since I have nothing to do with the MRF, I fail to see why you are posting this here. Try http://morgellons.org

  140. Dear Russell:

    While everyone suffering from delusional parasitosis basically has very similar symptoms, each individual case has its own specific etiologies.

    Your product is, therefore, pure hogwash.

  141. Michael wrote:
    “They don’t all have the same thing – they all have different things, and need to be treated on an individual basis.

    If you still feel I generalise, feel free to point out where, and I will attempt to be more specific.”

    You make a broad statement about all morgellans sufferers and then deny that you generalize.
    Hilarious.
    But since you asked, would you mind showing us your reseach with ALL of the morgellons claimants?

  142. Here you go:

    http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/05/09/we-all-have-the-same-symptoms/

    http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/05/17/morgellons-theories-are-varied/

    And – you say I’m generalizing by saying everyone needs to be treated on an individual basis? Can you explain this?

  143. tall cotton wrote:
    “Your Father is Satan, whether you believe he exists or not.”

    ….uhhh you can’t be serious. And whatever would you poor lifless folks do w/o Aherah. You keep saying leave tall cotton, but you don’t post any other comments except responses to Aherah, lol. I happened upon this site today, and I am fully amused. I won’t be back, don’t worry cotton, I won’t waste much of my precious time in this armpit of a blog, but I have to just laugh and laugh and laugh, at all you losers. BAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  144. damn you really ARE a no lifer…..you reponded already!!! rofl.

  145. >>Whatever Says:
    July 25th, 2006 at 1:08 pm

    >>Whatever Says:
    July 25th, 2006 at 1:10 pm

    damn you really ARE a no lifer…..you reponded already!!! rofl.

    Two minutes. Wow. Who are you talking to?

  146. I dont remember asking your dumb ass jezabel :P now go play frizbee, or shoot some hoops or read a book.

  147. Michael, is Pumpkin back?

  148. I saw no response to you either, Whatever. Can you please point out the post you are responding to in your post #149?

  149. I don’t think Whatever is Pumpkin/Aherah.

  150. Thanks, Michael. The discontinuity between post 148 and 149 on this thread had me wondering if someone was arguing with him/herself again and “replied” before he/she posted an argument.

    kindest

  151. Oh, time for a shoulder harness to be added to the lap belt and helmet, ya’ll.

  152. I had the symptoms of Morgellons including the parasites seen with a 100x microscope and the painful itching.My doctor prescribed Clobetsol Propionate Ointment 0.05% and Hydroxyzine HCL 10 MG. tablets.The symptoms disappeared on May 25,2006 and have not returned.I keep the meds handy in case.
    M.

  153. patient heal thyself

    I am all for it. I wonder how many folks actually use these. I built a small store that grew into over 100 thousands items. Its crazy how fast it grows!. Anyway. I agree!

  154. The Mayo Clinic Is not so skeptical
    For those of you who believe this is all paranoia and neurosis, please consult the new article by the Mayo Clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/morgellons-disease/SN00043
    This is frightening.

  155. I saw this, on another blog, from someone who just heard of “morgellons disease” for the first time.

    ok so this disease sounds really scary but I’m a teacher and i just found out about this disease and i was wondering if there are any other interesting facts a bout this just put it online.

    I replied:

    “This disease” it is a very sad situation. There are a lot of reinforcement forums on the web, and the patients don’t appreciate differing opinions. I hope this can be of some assistance. http://morgellonswatch.com/

    “Facts”? Briefly (I can’t list my sources, right now, but this is all on the web, from over the years)…

    It is not “a” disease, but its victims are very ill. A mother who refused evaluation for Munchasen Syndrome By Proxy launched a web site in 2002 because she was convinced her little boy had more than eczema, His skin itched, and, as many toddlers do, he’d described it by saying, “bugs”. She took it literally, and due to fibers and fuzz adhering to his raw skin, she expected that doctors were supposed to show an interest in researching her newfound disease.

    Patients who date back 13 years ago, originating with a group who flooded the National Pediculosis Association, with concerns of lindane poisionings, after a 1994 article in The Ladies Home Journal, were the beginning of the main bulk of the patients who found her web site and registered. Many others have since then, covering a lot of other psychogenic skin disorders.

    Ninety-five percent of them were diagnosed with delusional parasitosis and have been to an average of 10-40 doctors. The website claims, as you will see being said repeatedly, as you find out more about this, that everyone was “misdiagnosed” . That particular state is triggered by many different underlying causes, and they all share a delusional believe there’s a pathogen behind what induces a state of delusional parasitosis. Regardless, the patients, as is typical, were insulted, ignored THAT MANY doctors, and have left their health conditions untreated. Of course, they worsen. It’s widely reported by the patients that their doctors, instead, ignored them.

    This thing has evolved, due to a network of people assuring that it does, and well, if you’re interested, run an internet archives search on The Morgellons Research Foundation and look at the “still evolving case definition”. Anyone who wants to have it can. It covers everything known to mankind, all, already, in existence.

    There is a rapid growing network of crooks taking advantage of the most misfortunate members of our society, by telling them that they really have a new disease. They are ill, very ill, from various underlying conditions, and the charlatans who are screwing with them should be prosecuted for health fraud, and more. The patients are not justified in wanting to sue their real physicians, but there are solid cases with the quacks, if their families would pursue it. All the poor patients need to hear, as you will learn, is “I believe you”. They demand being believed, and researched, unable to treat what they have by virtue of it being what it is.

    The entire world hasn’t gone mad, yet, this is only the beginning of how it can spread.

  156. The “information” from the Mayo clinic is gotten from… where?

    Why, the MRF or the NMO, of course.

    And where did they get their statistics?

  157. Before you decide on this issue please watch !http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INI4PszEEy0

  158. Hello, jimmy. I’m decided on the issue and have been since first hearing of “morgellons disease” three years ago. I’m open-minded, though, so I took your advice and went to the link you gave. What I found there appears to be a twisted game of some sort and/or a whole lot of serious and untreated illness manifesting itself. Only the people behind such folly know the answer to which of the two it is, but I imagine it’s a bit of both, one feeding off of the other, and I don’t like people instilling and generating fear in each other. That’s exactly what this unfortunate mess is all about.

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