How can you tell if someone is a quack?

Here’s someone who recommends Doctor Schwartz:

http://morgellonsgroup.proboards23.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1163652018&page=1

I found a Dr. Schwartz at book on morgellons at http://healingresearch.org/
I bought his book. I’ve been with Morg for about a year and have a low immune system because of kidney transplant.

He will work with you to find a doctor to follow his protocol. But, I couldn’t wait and followed his book (broke the law and took horse dewormer I bought at the feed store and made my own eye drops with sulfa-liquid for cattle water, also at the feed store) Also, using the dermatexrx sprays and daitomacious earth mud packs) My doctor told Dr. Schwartz she would follow it and then later changed her mind. So we need another doctor. This is why I did what I did.

I had hundreds comming out each day. In just a few days I’ve gone from hundreds comming out each day to just a few today maybe 2. After the first “treatment” I was able to sleep without any creepy crawling… My sores are almost healing.

I have had some of the worms come out in my stool and the larval migrans are evacuating my skin.

Of course I’m vacuming like crazy, wash everything immediately after I wear it, mop the floors each day, wipe down the counters and even spray the walls. I bought some Neem oil, plant mite spray and use that on the walls as a mist and even on myself.

This can be beaten. Dr. Schwartz book has accounts of others he has treated who are healed of this parasite. Don’t live with it. It eventually will kill you!!! His consult fee was worth every penny.

Now, there are ways of discerning is someone is a quack. But really a quack is just someone who makes money from dubious medical practices. Someone who takes your money with no evidence that they are doing the right thing, and often much evidence that they are not.

179 Responses to “Is Schwartz a Quack?”

  1. “Oh dear, what a mess” – best way to describe it I think.

    This person had a kidney transplant and then took horse dewormer – this is so tragic.

    What can I say, it is almost like someone has flicked a switch in my brain (I know they haven’t! – figure of speech)and I am no longer seeing the world through “foggy glasses”.

    It is very sad that Dr Schwartz has a problem/addiction with narcotics. I believe Dr Schwartz would probably benefit from a good physical and mental health assessment. I am not a doctor nor do I pretend to know what I am talking about when it comes to medicine and science, I know enough to get by, like any lay person.

    I had hundreds comming out each day. In just a few days I’ve gone from hundreds comming out each day to just a few today maybe 2. After the first “treatment” I was able to sleep without any creepy crawling… My sores are almost healing.

    I have had some of the worms come out in my stool and the larval migrans are evacuating my skin.

    Of course I’m vacuming like crazy, wash everything immediately after I wear it, mop the floors each day, wipe down the counters and even spray the walls. I bought some Neem oil, plant mite spray and use that on the walls as a mist and even on myself.

    Would the above person be suffering maybe OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) and DOP? Given the fact they had a kidney transplant I would guess that there is a heck of a lot more going on also ie. underlying illness/disease??

    As for the “larval migrans” I have no clue what this is, and don’t really want to know.

  2. http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/41621.html

    This is one I appreciate particularly. March 2006.

    “But on April 7, it will come to a crashing halt because of narcotics. The New Mexico Medical Board voted Thursday to permanently revoke the Santa Fe doctor’s license to practice medicine in this state — and a national database will circulate the ruling all over the country.”

  3. To clarify, I don’t think that a doctor making one bad decision or one mistake makes them an overall bad person. But, at the same time, I think the far-reaching corruption of his practice may suggest that his doctor’s practice was quack-like.

  4. What about being listed in “Who’s Who”, and being named as one of the “2000 Outstanding Scientists of the 20th Century”.

    Wikipedia says of “Who’s Who”:

    Citations of “Who’s Who” directories should be viewed critically as evidence of notability. These registries’ criteria for listing are, as a rule, over-inclusive and may be nonexistent; some are vanity publishers and offer listing for a fee. The inclusion of a name in such a publication is therefore not sufficient to guarantee notability.

    And the “2000 scientists” award is a similar vanity awards from the “International Biographical Institute”, that they will give to any scientist who asks, then make more money by selling them certificates, medals and an official “sash of office”.

    http://snailstales.blogspot.com/2005/08/open-letter-to-wise-guys-at.html

    Fluffing of resumes seems to be another clue to quackery.

  5. Hey, here, we had a doctor botching up people in surgeries a couple of years ago. It turned out he wasn’t even a doctor, let alone a surgeon. The hospital administration had not EVEN checked him out before they hired him, saying only that his resume had looked impressive, he was very personable, and that they’d had no reason to think that they needed to verify anything He went on the run, and was luckily arrested in a southern state a few weeks later. People need to always look out for themselves. There are plenty of freaks around.

    Anyway, is Schwartz a quack? Well, is the pope catholic?

    I remember reading, among other things, that Doc Schwartz had prescribed large amounts of narcotics for five patients with the same surname; I remember reading that one patient paid more than $6,500 in cash over a six month period; I remember reading that he even sometimes wrote checks, himself, to cover those prescriptions; but I either overlooked the below, or it just didn’t register with me at the time.

    One patient, a woman who often picked up the medications for herself, her mother and brother, was once engaged to marry Schwartz.

    This guy might not just be using morgie people, but he could really be deluded and hallucinating morgie varmits too, considering.

    Schwartz’s intentions were always easy as heck to read, just like the MRF, and other “professionals” associated with stringing these innocent people along. Even after having it brought to light, it just doesn’t matter in the least to many. They continue to uphold the founder of “morgellons disease”, this twisted crack-pot quack, and really think that such types are deserving of respect. It is so sad that they’re so like babes in the woods, because of their illnesses. The general consensus of these patients is that legitimate physicians are quacks. So much of their thinking is just backwards from how things really are.

    http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/41621.html

  6. Oh, I posted a link to the same story as Sarah. Sorry, On one morgie message board, there was an apology concerning a Dr. Curti, last year, with the person saying, “I am truly sorry I did not know of his ways before I recommended him to people. Some got some help so I guess my goal was reached”. This person, as so many of them do, directs morgie people to quacks. I don’t know how that Dr. Curti was determined by this person to be one, and yet they’re so blind about Schwartz and all the others. If I recall correctly, Schwartz treats them out of Florida now.

  7. Is Dr. Schwartz a quack?

    I think the answer to that question is obvious. My immediate reaction when I heard about his claim to have isolated the Morgellons pathogen was that the man is full of it. That opinion has changed. He claimed that the pathogen is Stenotrophomonas maltophilia, a bacteria that sometimes colonizes hospital cathaters. It’s certainly not a pathogen that can do all the tricks that is reported of the so-called Morgellons pathogen. The truth of the matter, of course, is that the “Morgellons” sufferers are suffering from a wide variety of both physical and mental disorders.

    According to the first story that I heard, Dr. Schwartz had also received a phone call from a member of the French Underground who stated that he was involved in making genetically engineered changes to the organism. Dr. Schwartz allegedly claimed that the creepy crawley sensations that Morgellons sufferers were experiencing were caused by the movements of the bacteria’s flagella. I found that totally hilarious, due to their insignificant size, and I posted my opinions.

    Apparently my opinions reached the doctor because more was then added to the story. The engineering project allegedly modified the flagella. This would have been required in order for a person to feel their movement, but I never heard of this until after I had told everyone that it would be impossible to feel the movement of the flagella due to their size. It seemed to me that he added to his story after giving more thought to the matter. I later heard that it was the CIA, as opposed to the French Underground. But that’s neither here nor there. I think it’s obvious that the man was lying.

    Dr. Schwartz began treating “Morgies” in their motel rooms in Santa Fe, New Mexico. He prescribed Septra DS to kill the bacteria. As I understand it, the treatment didn’t work to eliminate the “Morgs”. The doctor put together a pamphlet with material that he obviously had gleaned from the message boards of the Morgellons Believers. It was ill prepared and filled with misspelled words. He called it a book and sold it for about twenty-five dollars. He later wrote a more comprehensive version, priced at one hundred twenty-five dollars.

    As I understand it, he is now treating patients with a mixture of daitomacious earth and crushed sea shells. He’s treating some patients for worms. I definitely believe he is exploiting them for their money?
    According to the story, a bio-engineered version of Stenotrophomonas maltophilia was acquired through French bottled water. Did it have worms in it too?

    All you have to do to fool a Morgie, is tell him that you believe what he says. You could march him off a cliff and hold his wallet while he fell. Dr. Schwartz may have been a good doctor at one time, but his license was revoked in New Mexico. Rumor has it that he’s addicted to narcotics. I don’t know if that’s true, but in my opinion, that’s what his appearance and behavior suggests.

    I heard that he is practicing medicine in Florida now. I suppose some of the Morgies will be taking a winter vacation. I hope the doctor leaves them with enough money to find their way back home. It’s a sad situation and it’s not getting better. So, is Dr. Schwartz a quack! Yeah, in my opinion, the man is definitely a quack!!

    Tall Cotton

  8. Excuse me. I meant to say that my opinion about Dr. Schwartz has NOT changed. I think you probably gathered that that was what I had meant to say. Sorry about that.

  9. “Schwartz said he prescribes narcotics mostly for Morgellons disease patients who suffer from severe pain syndromes, cancer, migraine headaches or injuries.”

    http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/36451.html

    I don’t know whether it’s legal for Dr. Schwartz to practice medicine in Florida after having had his license revoked in New Mexico, but in my opinion, if it is legal, it shouldn’t be.

    TC

  10. I’ve wondered about Florida licensing him, too, but not enough to look into it, because, either way, he’s going on. I think this guy’s more than proven that he hasn’t been concerned with legalities in recent years. As he’s been known to say, even when he had the audacity to go against the court order during his trial, and continued prescribing narcotics, alleviating patient suffering is all he’s concerned with. Um-hmm, yeah. That sounds so nice of the good doctor, now doesn’t it?!

  11. When I experienced my first bout of paranoia after taking Flagyl (200mg 3 times daily) I phoned my quack in a terrible state.

    I was hoping he would have told me to stop taking it, or reduce the dose – something like that.

    I said to him that I didn’t “trust” this “Morgellons” it didn’t feel right, I couldn’t understand “it” anymore and I was having terrible fearful thoughts.

    Well he responded with a few all over the place comments such as;

    “I seriously believe that what you have has an infectious agent/component to it”.

    “Oh I think you can trust the Morgellons Research Foundation, they seem like very nice people to me”.

    “Did you hear about Robert Beck he wrote “The Road Less Travelled”, well he was murdered recently and they belief the mafia did it”.

    “It has been said for a while that the mafia are involved in the pharmaceutical companies”.

    Verbatim and true. Do you think those comments calmed my mental state at all or just reinforced my delusions?

    So back to the conversation with him : NO mention of the Flagyl or the effect it was having on me, nothing. He had been warned via Mary Leitao that Flagyl could bring on anxiety/paranoia in this particular group of people. I had to take Tetrex 250mg 2 capsules 3 times daily at the same time also. After a week and half of sheer horror I phoned my pharmacist for help he said : “Well Gill after what you have just told me and if it were me I would never take the Flagyl again, and I guess you want someone to validate that for you, so Gill don’t take them”.

    The quack never really bothered when I told him, it was sort of brushed over.

    It was an awful experience to say the least, I had never run around in circles literally fearing for my life. I could not trust anyone, not even my own dad, and that is just so stupid. But I could not explain what was happening to me.

    I had my first “twilight zone” experience, nothing like pink poodles hanging off ceiling fans – mine was a simple tube of cream in a box “Antiparasitic cream” white box and green writing. But this tube of cream was in my bedroom at my parents place, I had never seen it before, I even picked it up. There were other strange things on the dressing table also, but I just don’t want to repeat them. This same tube/box of cream was at my Grandma’s bedside that very night when I visited her in hospital. I picked up that box also, I was so scared and paranoid I could barely talk. I hate to say this but my dad was really strange too, I tried to put this down to the fact that my mum was in hospital at the very same time (different hospital to my grandma though)and he was on his own missing mum, but it wasn’t that, he was strange/different.

    I tried to figure it out – What events had happened prior to this particular incident?

    My dad had recently been in hospital and had had more cancer lasered from his tongue.

    Also he had recently renovated his ensuite bathroom – as in a total rebuild, stripped the floors, walls, loo, shower, vanity, replaced the entire lot with all brand new fittings and then repainted the walls and ceiling. But my dad had done this his entire life, didn’t make sense.

    I was really concerned about him. He was like that for two days, and then bang – back to normal. He said weird things to me such as: “you need to read the adromeda (sp?) strain and prey by Michael Crichton”. He said “it will help you to understand things more”. Well I didn’t and I haven’t. This just wasn’t my dad, that is all I can say.

    Michael – I have done it again I know, please tell me to go away or shut up or whatever if you think I should. It’s just that sometimes I think I’m going to burst because as you know, this has been so awful for so many of us.

  12. Duragesic
    http://www.drugs.com/duragesic.html

    About July this year I had my last lot of IV clindamycin. The herx reaction was the worst I had had, I really believed I was dying. The pain was terrible, I felt as though I couldn’t breath properly, or get enough air in my lungs, well I couldn’t stand up straight for a start.

    I asked the quack for some pain relief “pleaseeee”. He prescribed Duragesic patch. His only warning was to be careful because it was highly addictive and to follow the dose instructions. So I did what he said.

    I have only ever had Pethidine in the past. For a tonsillectomy and when I was admitted to hospital with Salmonalla whilst away with my family in the country. (Oh sorry Smily I said before I had never been admitted to hospital, I forgot!!)

    Pethidine and me just don’t mix, runs in the family.

    Well those Duragesic patches were a horrible experience. I felt really “drugged” – never had this sensation before, as well as fitful sleep, nightmares etc.

  13. I think he helped invent this pscho fungus, lipid fibre mess. One thing is for sure…..he hit the nail on the head when he claimed Stenotrophomonas maltophilia….that’s a fact Jack!

    Now how in the hell did he know if it was not he and Mary in the doughnut shop in Oklahoma cooking it up…..probably had those skateboarding train riding angels right there with them too.

    Hey, I have not been here in about 2 or 3 months now. Michael, I thought you said people were not allowed to post anymore….

    Hmmm….maybe it was a while back that that happened, maybe it was just me…….

    Anyhoo, Yes, he sure did know that Stenotrophomonas maltophilia was involved…..

    Hey, is anyone else that is truly ill with fibres protruding from them also bein followed around by a helluva lot of white AT&T trucks? Just wandering…..and no, I’m not having delusions…..unless my photos of this and the one videotape I have of this taking place is delusional as well…cuz, it is happening…..

  14. Hi London. I just switched off comments on one post, as it was getting silly. Comments are now moderated, to prevent runaway flaming.

    Schwartz does not seem to believe in the S. Maltophilia theory any more, he’s just not updated his web site. He’s now pushing some worm parasite theory.

    Here’s a bit of his bulk email:

    The neurological MRI examinations are very disturbing as
    they
    show scattered areas in the peri-ventricular regions which we believe
    represents encystment of parasite. We have developed a network of
    treating
    physicians who will use our protocols. Right now, we charge a one-time
    consultation fee of $500.00 which includes help with management of the
    patient over a year or until full cure and consult or assistance in
    finding a
    treating physician. Anyone interested can send check or mo to Dr. G.
    Schwartz
    at 6574 North State Road#7 suite 404 Coconut Creek, Florida 33073.
    PLEASE
    no responses saying the fee is too much or too little or whatever. Our
    staff
    has to live also and the service is real, effective and guaranteed to
    offer
    major improvement and control, full cure in early cases.

    Great, so you send him $500, and he’ll tell you to take horse dewormer?

    Here’s his vanity “press release”, for which he paid $399:
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=50515

    Comparing the parasite’s production of fibers in one of its life stages to that of a silkworm, Dr. Schwartz noted that the reason for the fibers is still unknown, but it may represent a form of cocoon development or inter-parasite communication. He added, “The fiber production is often associated with electronic phenomena and the role of the fibers in nerve transmission needs to be investigated.”

    It’s sad that at least one person has paid his $500 fee, probably several people have. Very sad.

    Does he get referral fees from DermatechRX, and their wide range of insanely expensive diluted Benzalkonium chloride products?

  15. That must be one sneaky little parasite, since out of the thousands of Morgie pics, no one has photographed one yet. It does so many other tricks, I’ll bet it can make itself invisible. The bio-engineers probably made it a cloaking device. Yeah, that’s probably it. I think it might be a robotic spider, with a cloaking device, and it’s trying to wire everybody up into a world wide web. Yeah, and it emits optical fiber from its spinnerets. Oh, and I think it’s a jumping spider too. Of course, it is the source of the creepy-crawleys, while it’s cloaked. I’m glad I figured it out.

  16. Those scattered brain signals that Dr. Schwartz speaks of aren’t a result of Morgellons, but if they’re really present, they may be contributing to the delusions.

  17. When people this mixed up lay it all out here on the web (and seriously, I don’t think they even realize it), dag-gone-it, anyone who reads their posts can come along and screw around with them. The GDMFSOBs.

  18. Tallcotten, a cloaking device, just like in Star Trek, right? :)

  19. The GDMFSOBs.

    I am absolutely dying to know what that means Smiley!

    Well I think I have been a fine example of laying it all out on the Web, don’t you?!!

    And you’re right – I didn’t and sometimes still don’t realise I am doing it. Thank goodness we are on moderation and those little elvs are ever so helpful at times.

    And the “Bad People” have tried to screw around with me, well I said it before, and my OCD will say it again, “I am on my own”. Yes I have Delusions of Parasitosis and I am proud of it!!

    My little mate Al Pal said to me on the phone yesterday, “I don’t know why you bother with that lot at Morgellons Watch, have you read the latest at Morgellons Support Group?”

    I told Al I am not interested in reading about “cosmic waves” and “UFO’s”, I said it is dangerous stuff for my fragile mind, it will tip me over into paranoia if I allow it, and I WON’T.

    I said: “Al, you and me both have DOP, as well as an underlying illness of some type, we don’t have the same thing.”

    I come to this blog because it helps ME, and I hope it helps you guys. No you don’t lie, and you provide links to “real” diseases and illnesses, you have helped me realise this entire situation.

    I know I have driven you all to near insanity because I just did not understand the dynamics of DOP, and yes I was very embarrassed to even think I was DOP. But now I understand and I thank you.

    So if otber people in the Morgellons Believers Community think that I am a “brown noser” well good for you, I don’t care, because you all need to listen up and see the truth for what it is, we are all DOP and we all have our own individual diseases/illnesses.

  20. Sarah Bione-Dunn,

    Yeah, the Star Trek kind of cloaking device, the same kind our military is working on, and I think the optical transmissions are monitored from the AT&T vans. hehe.

    Gillian,

    Keep up the good work. It sounds like you are doing real good. Good Luck!

    Tall Cotton

  21. Bravo, Gillian. When I was a member of LB, a few times, when people brought up some really serious issues of the real diseases they’d said they had, I’d tried to steer them onto taking the matter seriously, and treating it through a real doctor. I didn’t allude to DOP, but I’d said, rather, to try to help them understand, that the underlying condition was what caused “morgellons” to manifest.

    But, nope, even though they knew what they had, lord have mercy, they didn’t know! Everybody is convinced that a mysterious new pathogen has caused everything that anyone’s got. It would be so nice if all morgie people were able to do their “research” into their real illnesses, and, then, into DOP, to see how it ties together, and how it came about for them to think such unusual things. Imagine how nice it would be.

    Well, back to reality now…

    You’re totally right about that far out kind of stuff being dangerous for fragile minds. Oh yeah. I suppose since they are seeing such inexplicable things, they think those weird discussions are going to lead them somewhere. It won’t, except to spiral them further into an abyss. It is a joyous thing to see that you know it’s unhealthy. That group think is never going to go anywhere. People need to stand on their own two feet and face the music. (And, dance, dance, dance.)

    Oh. That string of letters I put up there earlier stands for some bad things. I was overcome by emotion, and had a little hissy-fit. Hahaha!!! Sorry. But, actually, morgie people will call each other down and label each other as being crazy sounding, and say that if anyone would happen to look in on them, they’d make the entire lot look bad. Really, I didn’t have you in mind, at all, Gillian. I’d meant that on message boards they seem to think they’re in an obscured, secluded, place where nobody knows what they discuss. That’s what I’d meant about how they lay it all out there on the web. That’s exactly how come predators know how to play them so well!!!

  22. I didn’t clarify. The hissy-fit was towards my feelings concerning all the creeps, Gillian, not morgie people. I care about all morgie people.

  23. Smileykins Says:
    November 17th, 2006 at 11:01 pm
    I care about all morgie people.

    And that is the TRUTH and thanks guys I feel real chuffed.

  24. I gave myself the best therapy this evening. We watched a DVD “A Bear Named Winnie”. I highly recommend this to anyone. It has really cleaned out my pipes, I howled my heart out! and Tony had a bit of sob too.

    I am exhausted, but a nice exhausted. Thanks for today, goodnight.

  25. Very good. Just dig that “mainstream quackery” article (if ya can). Yeah. See, people with this malady were already persuaded into the wrong directions through the tricks their own senses have been playing on them. Not that something isn’t going on with them physically, because it is! They seem to have immense difficulty understanding that part. What I mean is, in their thinking that they stand accused of not having anything wrong other than inside of their heads. Wymore, as well as every “professional” caught up inside this whole scenario, included.

    Many patients had gone in to see real doctors, and did just like it was reported that Mary Leitao had done. They became insulted, said their doctors told them it was all inside their heads (their interpretation of what went down at their docs, I mean…we have never heard any of their doctors’ versions), and they have continued saying that real doctors should practice medicine differently. There is no way that anybody can think that way, unless they have something very distorted going on with their thinking processes.

    There are some major players in the morgie scene, and some have always had the lingering odor of a rat, to me. Schizophrenia or illicit drug abuse are suspect, yet, they may be truly be unable to control what they are doing to further damage the fragile minds of this group of people on line. Anyone can see, that the more bizarre their tales, the larger the following they develop. It has always made me wonder about the possibility of an ulterior motive to reel more of these sad patients in, for someone lurking back in the shadows to step forward with unsubstantiated claims of being able to assist them.

    I’m sorry for thinking that way, but I have been watching this for a while. That’s just the way it’s appeared. And, then, in swoop the vultures. (Oh, sorry. I mean, the quacks.) But these poor morgie people think the real doctors are the ones who are quacks. The excellent doctors who have known that they need to get their poor minds treated before they can get into a better state of health and understanding.

    There are just so many facets to this. There’s the “old-time morgies”, (hehe, sorry, but y’all know what I mean without my having to say it), and the “newbies”, who, with this advent of “morgellons disease”, I guess, quite innocently, go in to see doctors armed with assuming they have something legitimate to report. I don’t know, it’s just all a horrific mess.

    People are willing to pay attention to nothing that’s grounded in reality and let it completely destroy their lives, and, yet, they are surprised in their accounts that other people in their lives have called them crazy. If I didn’t want to be thought of in that way, I’d shut the hell up, and keep it to myself. If I couldn’t handle it, I’d trust someone in a real position of authority, like my doctor, to know what to do to help me get back on track. I wouldn’t have joined a movement like this and forced the government to get involved in it.

  26. Quackery has been around for a while, and is not going away.
    One sad problem is that anyone with a Ph.D. in any subject can call themselves “Doctor”, which has such an air of authority to most people. People like Hulda Clark and Trevor Marshal. They are not medical doctors, yet they essentially diagnose unproven diseases and prescribe very unusual treatments, and they make a living doing it.

  27. Smileykins Says:
    November 19th, 2006 at 5:16 pm
    It has always made me wonder about the possibility of an ulterior motive to reel more of these sad patients in, for someone lurking back in the shadows to step forward with unsubstantiated claims of being able to assist them.

    Yes, to this day I still scratch my head and ask myself – Why?

    What on earth did I do so wrong?

  28. My quack was dabbling big time in the “Marshall Protocol”. I know he was following Marshall’s vitamin D theory.

    He had my vitamin D levels checked. Funny thing though when I phoned the hospital pathology department to check my results, the gentleman told me that the tests my doctor had ordered were something the hospital did not recognise, therefore they weren’t going to have a bar of it.

    Anyway, my quack told me my vitamin D levels were elevated, but not evelated enough to cause all of the symptoms I had from A-Z, but enough to cause maybe the inflammation of the skin.

    So… he couldn’t give me the Benicar because my blood pressure was already 90/50, and he said the Benicar could possibly help the “bug” grow in me. He told me to avoid fish, eggs, milk, butter, etc. Wear my sunglasses in the house, avoid natural and artifical light and cover my body with clothes from head to toe.

    Just to bring things up to the present day. My current doctor tested my vitamin D levels after I told her my doctor said I was allergic to vitamin D.

    Well you guessed it! He was wrong, I am deficient in vitamin D and I now have to take a supplement.

    quack, quack…

  29. A hundred years ago, there were lots of “patent remedies”, a lot of them made the person taking them feel good. Sometimes REALLY good. It turns out they often contained cocaine or heroin.

    Read this, written in 1905, over a hundred years ago:

    http://www.mtn.org/quack/ephemera/oct7-01.htm

    There it is in a nutshell; the faith cure. Not the stimulant, but the faith inspired by the advertisement and encouraged by the stimulant does the work-or seems to do it. If the public drugger can convince his patron that she is well, she is well-for his purposes. In the case of such diseases as naturally tend to cure themselves, no greater harm is done than the parting of a fool and his money. With rheumatism, sciatica and that ilk, it means added pangs; with consumption, Bright’s disease and other serious disorders, perhaps needless death.

    That’s why you have that pesky FDA. But now the quacks just put disclaimers at the bottom of the page “Not intended to treat ….”, “Not evaluated by the FDA”, and sell their snake oil anyway, because it makes sick people feel better to think someone is taking their disease seriously, it gives them hope and validation.

    Quackery is the opium of the Morgies.

  30. I’m quite offended by the “anyone with a PhD” comment. Where do you think all drugs and treatments for legitimate diseases come from? Who is working on cures for cancer and numerous other diseases? For the most part it is PhD’s. Physicians (MD’s and DO’s) see patients and run the clinical side of research but the majority of them do not spend their days in a lab. Physiologists and other PhD’s are the people who do the hands on lab work. This board is here to tell patients to listen to their doctors, that most doctors are not quacks, etc. I agree. But it is also true that most people who go to school for 7+ years to receive their PhD do NOT spend that enormous expenditure of money or time to fool people into buying pretend cures.

  31. I wish I had never done a testimony for that quack about his NAET Allergy Elimination Technique.

    The awful thing about it is, he asked me to do the testimony when I was still feelling really unwell. My testimony was to go with some other papers that were to be submitted to the government. He (the quack) was trying to have NAET and other alternative medicine under the Medicare Health System.

    So he asked a very sick and vulnerable person like myself to write a letter stating how wonderful NAET was and how I felt it was helping me on my way to recovery.

    Well….I wish to retract that testimony (if I could). What a load of rubbish NAET is and what a big money spinner it is for that quack, he made plenty out of me.

  32. Jace, my point is that a PhD (in any subject, which can include math or archeology) does not qualify you to diagnose illnesses, nor to prescribe treatment. Sure lots of people with PhDs make valuable contribution in their fields – it just annoys me when quacks like Hulda use the “Doctor” honorific to justify their quackery.

  33. NAET – which can cure Acne, Addiction and “Computer Radiation” (and everything else).

    Gillian, you are so well shot of that quack. At least you’ll know how to spot one in the future.

  34. I don’t like it when a doctor of philosophy tells people that Morgellons is a real disease, and helps to reinforce the delusions of vulnerable people, i.e. Doctor Wacky Wymore.

    Tall Cotton

  35. Jace, here’s a bit more on Marshall, and why this annoys me:

    http://impnvestigator.chat.ru/

    Of particular concern to the authors of this site is Trevor Marshall’s use of the title “Dr.” on message boards on which he is providing medical advice to seriously ill patients. While he will readily explain that he has a Ph.D. and is not a medical doctor, this point is not made often, and many of his message board members may not realize that he is not a medical doctor.

    In fact, Trevor Marshall obtained a Bachelor of Electrical Engineering from the University of Adelaide in 1974. In 1978, he obtained a Master of Engineering (RF Digital Electronics). He holds a Ph.D. qualification issued by the University of Western Australia, Department of Electrical and Electronic Engineering

    This information is publicly available on his personal web site at http://www.trevormarshall.com/resume.htm

    A copy of Marshall’s thesis, entitled “Modelling and simulation in diabetes care” / by Trevor Gordon Marshall, can be found on the University of Western Australia’s Website, here.

    The authors found its primary content to be mathematical modelling and the use of computer simulations / programs to assist in understanding glucose in diabetes care, yet Marshall sometimes points to his thesis as evidence of his expertise in his current endeavours, in implied reference if not directly.

  36. Jace, my point is that a PhD does not qualify you to diagnose illnesses, nor to prescribe treatment.

    I couldn’t agree more. Trevor Marshall was qualified as an Electrical Engineer before he did his PhD. I have no idea how long a PhD takes to complete, before they can put “Dr” in front on their name.

    So..would I be wrong in saying that he had no medical background whatsoever?

    And quacks are buying Marshall’s theories via the internet and then treating patients?

    **************************************************

    A Biting Anger
    As they fight Lyme disease, its victims say they must also battle the attitudes of health-care providers. Health-care issues percolate under the Jefferson City dome

    By GREG MILLER of the Tribune’s staff
    Published Sunday, May 21, 2006
    http://www.columbiatribune.com/2006/May/20060521Show001.asp

  37. Gillian, you are so well shot of that quack. At least you’ll know how to spot one in the future.

    You better believe that one!! and run a mile!!

    Or…maybe I could do a SarahConnor and go blow them all up!!

  38. As you just said, Michael,

    …lots of people with PhDs make valuable contribution in their fields

    Key words: IN THEIR FIELDS

    Like I’d said, before,

    A scientist almost invariably winds up doing pseudoscience when he moves out of a field in which he is knowledgeable and competent, and plunges into another field of which he is quite ignorant. A physicist who claims to have found a new principle of biology…or a biologist who claims to have found a new principle of physics…is almost invariably doing pseudoscience. A scientist becomes a pseudoscientist when he defends an idea when all evidence and experiment is against it, because he is emotionally or ideologically committed to it. I give you any “professional” attached to “morgellons disease”. Mercy, especially Randy Wymore in with the NMO…The Morgellons Have Landed.

    A scientist who forges data, or suppresses data which doesn’t agree with his preconceptions, or refuses to let others see his data for independent evaluation, has become a pseudoscientist. Whether this is going on, or will, I don’t know. Science is a high peak of intellectual integrity, fairness, and rationality. To carry the analogy further, the peak is slippery and smooth. It requires a tremendous effort to remain near it. But any slacking of effort carries one away, and into pseudoscience.

    Being wrong or mistaken is unavoidable. We are all human, and we all commit errors and blunders. A scientist, however, is alert to the possibility that he might blunder, and is quick to correct mistakes, since these mistakes are fatal to future studies which he might undertake if they are not found and rooted out. A scientist, in short, when shown that he is mistaken by his associates, will abandon his mistaken ideas. A pseudoscientist will not. In fact, a short definition of pseudoscience is that it is a method for protecting and rationalizing obviously incorrect and mistaken concepts about man and nature…for excusing, defending and preserving errors.

    It is, unfortunately, vital for everyone to learn to distinguish carefully between science and pseudoscience. I know that the people I have familiarized myself with, who think that they have “morgellons disease”, have serious situations on their hands. They have made how they’ve gotten there public knowledge, as well as to have told where it often leads. There may be some people who aren’t “delusional”, but they’re not on the internet letting it be known that they think they’ve been overtaken by a new disease called “morgellons”, are they?

    My ability to discern what’s going on with these poor people is intact.

  39. Michael – I don’t know whether you know this or maybe I have already told you, but apparently Trevor Marshall said that Mary Leitao was a neurotic woman obsessed with skin lesions. He was forced to make a public apology and I think (don’t quote me here) remove something similar from his website.

    I think it was a very foolish thing he said.

  40. The following risks are believed to exist from doing the MarshallProtocol.com for persons with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Lyme, Gulf War Illness / Sickness [GWI / GWS], Fibromyalgia [FM], Irritable Bowel Disease [IBS IBD], Irritable Gut Syndrome [IGS]. Please follow link.
    http://lassesen.com/cfids/MarshallProtocolRisks.htm

  41. A QUACK, BY ANY TITLE, IS STILL A QUACK. If a person needs a specialist, it is a simple matter to check with the AMA to see if a doctor who is practicing medicine is credited in their field of specialty. Morgie people are all mixed up backwards with the ways they think, and have such a strong fixation on their skin conditions, and what they think is causing them, that it’s well known what they think about REAL DOCTORS. It’s no small wonder why they are running into all directions, like a chicken with its head cut off, scared out of their wits. These freakin’ quacks capitalize on people who are such easy marks as this. It’s like taking candy from a baby. They can keep on pacifying people, while not only are their real health matters going unattended, but, many times, quacks’ ridiculous “treatments” may possibly also harm them further, without their patients having a clue. The FDA? Well, look at all these mixed up people. Everything they think is all backwards!!!

  42. I like the way my Grandma doctored me. She’d tie a big white cloth around my big toe, leaving two big ears like a rabbit’s on top. And she’d douse it with something she called Annie Pain Oil. I hopped around like a one legged rabbit and it was really easy to see that I was wounded in action. I miss my Grandma.

  43. Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction
    http://www.roadback.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/education.display/display_id/186.html

    Now can anyone tell me is the Herx reaction real scientific medicine or just more quackery??

  44. I believe that article on the Herx Reaction and Antibiotic Therapy makes the whole thing sound rather like a picnic. How far it is from the truth!!

    Living in a herx reaction is nothing more than sheer hell. I know this only too well.

    I live in a constant herx, now is that normal?

  45. The Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction is a real thing, but the problem that fans have is they attribute any ill-feeling after self-medicating to an indication that the medication is working.

    Here’s the logic:

    1) I take medicine
    2) I feel really bad, worse than before.
    3) It must be herxing, so the medicine is working!!

    Of course, “feeling really bad” is not a good indication that your treatment is working. It could equally mean that the treatment is NOT working, or that it’s making your condition worse, or subjecting you to side-effects.

    Remember, just because a treatment makes you sick, does not mean it’s making you well.

    http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/lyme.html

    Many patients who believe they have chronic Lyme disease are willing to endure considerable discomfort in their effort to get rid of their symptoms. This behavior is fostered by the misguided belief that antibiotic therapies are not working unless they make the patient feel worse. These patients typically refer to this condition as “herxing,” a colloquial term for the Jarisch-Herxheimer (J-H) reaction.

  46. Gillian – what makes you think it’s herxing? Herxing is a temporary reaction that follows the initial doses of antibiotics, and does not last more than a few days.

    I know you are ill, but why do you attribute your pains to herxing rather than something like Toxoplasmosis?

  47. Michael – I am laughing here!!! Herxing a temporary reaction!!! I think not in my case, I would be bed bound for days and days. Yeah and I was told it was “just the herx”.

    And the herx nearly killed me a few months ago.

    The doctor decided not to administer the next dose of IV, due to the fact that I would have died 2 days later.

    I know you are ill, but why do you attribute your pains to herxing rather than something like Toxoplasmosis?

    Because I believed my doctor and I don’t really know/understand the full dynamics of Toxoplasmosis to be honest. I guess a better way to answer that really is; I feel the same I did whilst I was on the antibiotics, really friggin ill.

  48. Of course, “feeling really bad” is not a good indication that your treatment is working. It could equally mean that the treatment is NOT working, or that it’s making your condition worse, or subjecting you to side-effects.

    Remember, just because a treatment makes you sick, does not mean it’s making you well.

    oh dear…Michael would you like to repeat that to the “duck” down the road from me?

    Didn’t you know…”You’re meant to feel sicker before you feel better”….that was the moto I had drilled into my swollen head.

  49. Oh yeah… and if all else fails when the pain is just way too much…pray!! WTF!

  50. I do apologise I did not explain myself correctly; post 50 was not my idea, it was the ducks.

  51. Side Effects of Antibiotics:
    http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec17/ch192/ch192a.html
    * Hearing loss
    * Dizziness
    * Kidney damage
    * Seizures
    * Confusion
    * Gastrointestinal upset and diarrhea
    * Nausea
    * Allergic reactions
    * Jaundice
    * Nervousness, tremors, seizures
    * Inflammation or rupture of tendons
    * Crystals in urine (rare)
    * Decrease in white blood cell count
    * Sensitivity to sunlight
    * Staining of teeth
    * Red-orange saliva, sweat, tears, and urine
    * Flushing, itching

    Symptoms of “Herxing”
    * increased joint or muscle pain
    * headaches
    * chills
    * Heavy perspiration and night sweats
    * Nausea
    * Burning micturition
    * Bone pain
    * swollen glands
    * bloating
    * constipation or diarrhea
    * fever (usually low grade)
    * hypotension (low blood pressure)
    * Itching, hives and rash
    * heart palpitations, elevated heart rate, orthostatic

    Toxoplasmosis in immuncompromised patients
    http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/t/toxoplasmosis/symptoms.htm
    * Malaise
    * Muscle pains
    * Enlarged lymph nodes
    * Enlarged glands
    * Anemia
    * Liver symptoms
    * Low blood pressure
    * Eye inflammation
    * Fever
    * Chills
    * Skin rash
    * Lung symptoms
    * Heart symptoms
    * Kidney symptoms
    * Brain symptoms
    * Encephalitis
    * Headache
    * One-sided muscle weakness
    * Tremor
    * Vision problems
    * Hearing problems
    * Confusion
    * Coma

    Was this the quack giving you the IV?

  52. I know you are ill, but why do you attribute your pains to herxing rather than something like Toxoplasmosis?

    Okay flip side here:

    What little I know about Toxoplasmosis, I could attribute my symptoms to this, and if human to human transmission is possible, or has taken place, that could quite possibly explain the change in mental behaviour in people close to me.

    Keep in mind Michael I do have a vivid imagination so I really do “analyse” things at times, but to me it is a reasonable and logical explanation for this entire mystery so far.

  53. Was this the quack giving you the IV?

    Yes.

  54. I currently have these symptoms.

    * Malaise
    * Muscle pains
    * Enlarged lymph nodes
    * Enlarged glands
    * Anemia (**previous)
    * Low blood pressure
    * Eye inflammation
    * Fever – continually in the past
    * Chills – not recently
    * Skin rash – not really a rash, put pimple spot things.
    (Look similar to chicken pox at times)
    * Lung symptoms (tight chest,shortness of breath)
    * Heart symptoms (palpitations)
    * Kidney symptoms (frequency at times and stress/urge incontinence)
    * Brain symptoms – self explanatory I think.
    * Encephalitis – my head has changed shape many times?
    * Headache – yes
    * One-sided muscle weakness – right side, similar to a stroke at times
    * Tremor – had severely 2 years, appeared like a full blown “Parkinsons”
    * Vision problems
    * Hearing problems – severe ringing and humming
    * Confusion – oh really, I wouldn’t have thought that for a minute!!

  55. * Tremor – had severely 2 years, appeared like a full blown “Parkinsons”

    My apologies.

    Correction: I hadad a severe tremor 2 years ago, that appeared like full blown Parkinsons. This tremor would come and go at times. The tremor is not noticeable so much these days, but I do feel my whole body literally vibrating from within – the majority of the time. It is like an entire body neuralgia.

  56. Believe me, Marg I understand what you’re saying. I spend a lot of time simply explaining to people the difference between a physician and a PhD. Many people hear doctor and assume physician. But I don’t believe that simply because a researcher is working on something they’ve never worked on before that they are practicing “pseudoscience”. If no one ever endeavored to take on something new no progress would ever be made. It’s ludicrous to say that anyone who does research should only stick to one thing. Physiology covers a whole heck of a lot of ground (like every single body function), so if you have a background in physiology you know way more than what you wrote your thesis on because you are required to take a lot of classes, many of which are not thesis related. People who don’t understand how this whole process works should not be making their own assumptions. And Michael, while I understand what you’re saying I just felt you presented a very one sided view, and I wanted to explain there is more to research than that.

  57. Research is one thing, anyone can research anything they want, I have no problem with that, research is good

    It’s when people start effectively diagnosing and treating that I have a problem, especially when they use the “Doctor” moniker to bolster their “diagnosis”.

    I do not include Wymore in this. I really was just thinking of Clark and Marshall, but I’m sure there are many others.

  58. Gotcha. Actually I read your links and was just dumbfounded at what those two did. I just don’t want all PhD’s judged in the same manner that the morgies are judging their doctors. There bad physicians and bad PhD’s, but for the most part I think most people have good intentions.

  59. Michael hadn’t said it, anyway, I’d called what Wymore is doing “pseudoscience”. I haven’t included him as someone that’s treating patients, although some morgie people were of the mistaken opinion that, what was it(?), dewormer and uppers were being administered at OSU, quite a few months ago.

    I’d had my opinions already, but I believe it was in June, when Abac68 first made us aware of Wymore’s letter to physicians, that I’d commented that it appeared nothing like a professor of anything, to me, had authored it. It appealed to “morgellons patients”, speaking in their language. I’d said at the time, that with a strong background in physiology (as you’ve just reiterated, Jace), there is something wrong in him not grasping anything.

    Any physician that letter has been handed to, can see that the author is challenged in his understanding, speaking of “grains” and the like. I’ve always said, from the start, there is something the matter, in my very strong opinion, for a man of supposed intelligence to have involved himself in “morgellons disease”. His actions, since, have screamed it out louder.

    I’m all for research, when there is a reason for it. He’s got his reasons.

  60. You’re sounding so much better Gillian, and I am so thankful. It is hard as heck, I know. Ya gots guts, gal. Wowee.

    Back to the PhD in physiology, though. He is researching fibers that DOP patients have always (since DOP has been around), thought were something of a parasitic nature. Uh, the dude has collected fibers obsessively, himself, from all over, as reported in the news. His “research” is very detrimental, serving to take such patients deeper and deeper inside of their problem, causing them to continue to fail seeking treatment for what all ails them. There is something wrong with that, and with a professional person going public with all the comments that he’s made, such as saying that these patients are not delusional, and that there really are fibers that are visible to others in their skin. Good Lord, everyone knows that! The ill-conceived belief about the source of those fibers (as well as all the other components of internal and external wastes, infectious processes, as well as wound healing processes), plus, patients relating them to their other symptoms of being sick, which is exactly what is taking place in these patients…

    is the illness (of DOP), and the cause for that-illness-to-manifest, is due to various-underlying-ill-states-of-health that each separate patient has, as an individual.

    I could argue till the cows come home, but people have too much invested in their fixations and beliefs, and too much false hope attached to it all, thanks to the “morgellons movement”, they have fallen much further into the abyss. Remember the spider (people, in what looks like, to morgies, authoritative positions) and the fly (the morgie people, themselves).

  61. Any physician that letter has been handed to, can see that the author is challenged in his understanding, speaking of “grains” and the like.

    The quack I was seeing read Dr Wymore’s letter and then said; “well this is good for your cause dear”.

    At the time, I could not understand what on earth he was talking about. Now when I think about it, oh boy it makes me angry.

  62. Smileykins said:

    There are some major players in the morgie scene, and some have always had the lingering odor of a rat, to me.

    Anyone can see, that the more bizarre their tales, the larger the following they develop. It has always made me wonder about the possibility of an ulterior motive to reel more of these sad patients in, for someone lurking back in the shadows to step forward with unsubstantiated claims of being able to assist them.

    Morgellons: Mystery Disease, Delusion, or the Next Global Pandemic?
    http://www.morgellons-disease-information.com/

    This book is a fine example of the “swarms” which “prey” on the “morgies”.

    Do you know the book hasn’t been written yet?
    The author will however phone you once you have emailed all your details to her. She will even include you in her book.

    NO thanks lady, I can write my own.

  63. Smileykins Says:
    November 20th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
    You’re sounding so much better Gillian, and I am so thankful. It is hard as heck, I know. Ya gots guts, gal. Wowee.

    Thank you and my pleasure. My mind is feeling tip top, I just wish my body would follow through, but it seems to be going in the other direction. Yes it is extremely hard.

    I was born with guts, I got nothing to loose here, apart from my life, and that’s worth fighting for.

  64. P.S. I will be glad to get that scan over and done with tonight.

  65. P.P.S. I can’t decide between “Mozart” and “Puccini” to listen to whilst I have the scan, such big decisions hey?!!!

  66. I haven’t included him as someone that’s treating patients, although some morgie people were of the mistaken opinion that, what was it(?), dewormer and uppers were being administered at OSU, quite a few months ago.

    Fenbendazole (Panacur)
    http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=301&A=1596&S=1

    Ritalin
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate

    These were the drugs being used, but I have no idea who was administering them. I was told to keep my mouth shut about this, whoops I’m sorry it just fell open!

  67. I believe the Ritalin was being used for the “brain fog” symptoms and “chronic fatigue”.

    Personally I think taking Ritalin for DOP seems really bizarre. I reckon I would self combust if I took that stuff and then no doubt my liver and kidneys could possibly collapse from ingesting Fenbendazole.

    Look I don’t have any proof myself if Fenbendazlone would do that to my liver or kidneys, but my gut just tells me that you don’t take this sort of medication, it is for animals, and a doctor wouldn’t/shouldn’t prescribe to a patient.

  68. The “Bottled Water Of France” Myth
    According to Jim Mortellaro bottled water from France is the reason for the outbreak of Morgellons
    http://www.morgellons.eu/news-2-the-bottled-water-of-france-myth.html

    This is good! I have only just stumbled across it. I guess that sums up Schwartz being a quack.

  69. You’re welcome, Gillian. Focus on that spirit of yours. That is who we all really are, not these bodies that work against us.

  70. Jace Says:
    November 20th, 2006 at 8:19 am
    Believe me, Marg I understand what you’re saying. I spend a lot of time simply explaining to people the difference between a physician and a PhD. Many people hear doctor and assume physician. But I don’t believe that simply because a researcher is working on something they’ve never worked on before that they are practicing “pseudoscience”.

    Cloning of a mammalian elk potassium channel gene and EAG mRNA distribution in rat sympathetic ganglia
    http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7793.1998.675bg.x/full/

    Would you call “cloning” pseudoscience?

  71. I don’t think Wymore is a quack, nor do I think he’s practicing pseudoscience. I think though that he’s made two major mistakes, which push him towards “bad” science.

    Firstly he’s investigating the fibers without checking to see if there is a disease related to the fibers. Are these people actually sicker that other similar people? Do they actually have more fibers under their skin than people who suffered from neurotic excoriations? By failing to quantify this situation, he’s really got no idea what it is he’s actually investigating.

    Secondly, he’s participated willingly in massive media campaign promoting a disease for which there is no evidence beyond anecdotes. By identifying so strongly with the “believers”, he casts his scientific impartiality into question.

    I think in time he will recognize this to a small degree, and modify his position.

  72. I think in time he will recognize this to a small degree, and modify his position.

    Oh, I sure hope so. I think if he weren’t so swept up in fibers, that maybe he could have been able to recognize that “callus” thingys, too, are what the rest of the world calls “scabs”, and that they need to be left in place, and can be expected to be uncomfortable, and itch, sometimes, as patients’ skin is healing. (hehe) He used that “world is not flat” talk too, in an article, and said that getting people to believe in this was about like expecting someone to change their religion. (I sorry. He seems “unwell” to me.)

  73. He used that “world is not flat” talk too, in an article, and said that getting people to believe in this was about like expecting someone to change their religion. (I sorry. He seems “unwell” to me.)

    I couldn’t agree more.

  74. Hi Gill-

    I do not agree with the DOP prognosis. There is more to this. (what causes DOP?) It is uncommon.

    Regards

  75. Starlink,

    Delusiona aren’t what most people think. It doesn’t necessarily mean that a person is “seeing things” that aren’t there. It means that they believe things that aren’t based on the evidence. I doesn’t mean that a person is hallucinating. It means that their beliefs are wrong, and not based on the facts at hand.

    Delusions of Parasitosis is the false belief that parasites are infecting one’s body. A parasite is considered to be organisms that don’t belong in us. For example, we don’t consider E. coli to be a parasite when it’s inhabiting our digestive tract and aiding digestion.

    There’s different 3 types of DOP, and Smileykins has posted them several times. But one type is for people that are really sick, and it can be that they really have skin problems. It’s just that they have some beliefs about their condition that isn’t based on reality. Everyone that believes that they have Morgellons Disease has DOP.

    Please study all three types. A lot of times a person will need to take medication so that their strage beliefs will come into line with reality. Their brain chemistry is imbalanced. For some people, counselling may be all that is necessary.

    Tall Cotton

  76. Hello, Norman. DOP has come out of obscurity now. That’s all. The majority of “morgellons” patients (perhaps, minus some of the newcomers) have made no secret that they have received numerous, repeated, diagnoses of DOP.

    Have you not been reading anything here? Please do. A woman misinterpretted her child’s eczema and thought that fibers in his skin was a new disease. She has continued picking at her child to this day, and has admitted that she was told by doctors that she is mentally ill with Munchausen By Proxy Syndrome.

    She found a name of ancient misunderstanding about clogged skin pores. She adopted the name and started a web site. Other people who could identify with what she said on her site, joined up to her belief. Most all of them had been to many doctors, and were told they had DOP, scared to pieces that they had something else. Well, yeah they had skin symptoms with stuff in them. The very hallmark of DOP is denial. Why? Because it’s impossible for a person to know when their mind is messing with them like that. Doctors have been following the correct protocol. The uncooperative patients have resisted addressing this condition.

    They registered on her site, specifying their pre-existing, concurrent, medical conditions as part of the registration process. She deliberately cultivated her movement, on a mission to raise awareness of what she has thought was a new disease, receiving reinforcement, herself, along the way. The case definition was composed from the list of previously diagnosed illnesses that people registered to become members of the Morgellons Research Foundation. As a result of the entire, ongoing, scenario, more vulnerably susceptible people have fallen under the belief, and continue having it dangerously reinforced. Thanks to the fervor of one woman, her movement has resulted in raising the world’s awareness of a set of terribly misled people, with DOP, from many different causes, begging the government, no, forcing the government, to step in to help them.

    Norman, I have posted it so many times. Nobody wants to learn what DOP is about, because they have all been offended at the diagnosis. They should not be, my gosh. Look at what not treating it has been doing to people.

    Their underlying conditions are what causes DOP to happen. A doctor can’t very well treat a patient, for anything, when all they are fixated on is what they have found coming out of their skin.

    1. Primary Psychotic DOP is the sole psychological disturbance, and patients otherwise behave normally, and reason in a rational manner

    2. Secondary Functional DOP has an underlying psychiatric condition causing it, including: depression, anxiety disorders, paranoia, OCD, schizophrenia

    3. Secondary Organic DOP is caused from an underlying physical illness,including: neurological disorders, cerebrovascular disease, cancer, tuberculosis, hypothyroidism, diabetes, drug/alcohol abuse, nutritional deficiencies such as vitamin B12, thiamine, or niacin, and a whole lot of conditions

    People can’t take care of their underlying problem(s) until they treat the DOP, first, to realign their brain chemistry so they can perceive things correctly.

    This story is so similar to what people have done with “morgellons disease”. Please, I beg you to just read it, and you will see for yourself.

    http://www.ahealthyme.com/topic/parasitosis

  77. Hi Starlink – Do you not mean DOP diagnosis?? not prognosis?

    is the illness (of DOP), and the cause for that-illness-to-manifest, is due to various-underlying-ill-states-of-health that each separate patient has, as an individual.

    I hope re-reading the above statement helps you out Starlink.

    As for DOP being uncommon, well you know you could very well be right. I had never heard of it before, it is very new to me. That is why the CDC are involved Starlink, they obviously do realise that we have a lot of very sick people in this world, especially young people.

    Take care please.

  78. DOP is uncommon, but still thousands of people have it. It’s been recognized for over a hundred years. It often has a physical trigger.

    The CDC is investigating why there seems to be an increase in the number of people reporting symptoms that look like DOP. Maybe there is an actual increase in cases due to some environmental cause (like pollution or fiberglass) or infectious agent (like MRSA), or it’s just a demographic shift with baby boomers hitting menopause, or maybe it’s an illusory increase, focussed by the media’s coverage of Morgellons, or maybe it’s magnified by the internet’s villagification of the world. Maybe a combination.

  79. There are a lot of misconceptions at play with people who are ill and think that it’s all due to “morgellons disease”. One such misguided notion is, that it would be that difficult a process for a new disease to be detected. Of course, one of the main players, Dr. Stricker, has been instrumental in reinforcing that fear, citing his past experience of witnessing when AIDs patients were first seen. The history of Lyme disease becoming recognized, also, of course, has been applied in this process.

    A very complex problem has been in existence with many of the patients who think they have “morgellons disease”. The CDC responded to patients’ pleas, by instructing them to see their local health care providers. No one would think that the CDC’s directions should be ignored, but due to so many patients’ difficulties with doctors in their past, it was, in many cases. There may have been more behind the CDC’s recommendation, than such distrustful patients were able to realize. They’d had the matter brought to their attention, so how better to address it than through the local levels of the health care system? Believing themselves to be carriers of new disease, reporting it, then, was a crucial step, chosen to be ignored by many.

    Thousands can seem to be a really large number, but, looking at the bigger picture, it isn’t. Some patients, as we’ve known to expect, believe that “morgellons disease” has been something unleashed upon them by the CDC itself. It appears that quite a few may not be able to come to terms with the possibility that they could be mistaken about a lot of the things they believe. Now, one could argue that I have a lot of preconceived notions, too, and, yes, I know that I’m opinionated. I’m not very ill, and risking further harm to myself, not knowing what is the matter with me, though, and crying for help from my government. I pray that these patients develop a real strength, like none they have ever known.

  80. The CDC is investigating why there seems to be an increase in the number of people reporting symptoms that look like DOP. Maybe there is an actual increase in cases due to some environmental cause (like pollution or fiberglass) or infectious agent (like MRSA), or it’s just a demographic shift with baby boomers hitting menopause, or maybe it’s an illusory increase, focussed by the media’s coverage of Morgellons, or maybe it’s magnified by the internet’s villagification of the world. Maybe a combination.

    Oh, that is SO well worth repeating.

  81. Excuse me, I wanted my preceding comment in bold print, but I neglected to attribute the quote to Michael.

  82. Michael – Do you know that my family and I see this “delusional” behaviour in my Grandma’s doctor.

    My Gran has COAD, Rheumatoid arthritis, and osteoporosis, probably some other things, but I have given up trying to remember!

    Anyway, her chest and breathing can get bad at times. My Gran is so self consumed with her own health and panics over the smallest symptoms. Her doctor keeps giving her antibiotics when her chest gets a bit bad. So she is on yet another course of them.

    Her doctor said after the second course if there is no improvement, he wants her to have a chest x-ray. Well my mum is just so over this, she said he did this last time, and the time before that. Mum said the x-rays just show that she has COAD and some heart problems due to her age. We believe my Gran’s doctor is just reinforcing her own “delusion”.

    My Gran is not what you would consider senile in anyway, she will be 91 in a couple of months, and we know she can’t wait!! She has always been one to be very self consumed, and very selfish. She has compared her health with mine for a long time now, and as you can understand this drives my parents crazy!!

    The doctor that treats my Gran is the very same doctor that turned down treating my condition when the Psychiatric Hospital contacted him after my inpatient stay. He said that taking on my case was “too complicated”. I was really shocked to be honest. I used to see this guy when I was 17yrs. At the time he was trialling some new theory he had on penicillin treating severe cold sores. He used to give me injections in my backside every month, to try to reduce the size and frequency of the cold sores.

    The lengths this doctor has gone to with my Grandma’s health is totally obsurd. She is as fit as a fiddle and still lives alone, and her home is immaculate. My dad gets so damn angry with him. The tests that my Grandma has had in the past ie.CT scans,x-rays you name it, as well as lots of inpatient hospital stays, and the entire time she is treated like a queen. The very same hospital I could not get past the ER without them bringing in the psych.team, and this was on 3 occasions you know, and the last time I was showing signs of a stroke!

    My parents say that it seems a lot of doctors today really take care of the elderly, maybe it is good practice for them or something, because they certainly can not figure out WHY their daughter can not get any willing doctor to perform a bunch of tests and nail down what is wrong with her, when it is so obvious how sick I am.

    Anyway Michael, the scan was done last night, and I am off to have an EEG this morning. Oh and of course I am driving myself, the crazy behaviour in people around me just continues. When I stand up my legs just want to buckle beneath me, and then I have to struggle with the overwhelming nausea, meanwhile I am swaying because my balance is so bad.

    I am not feeling sorry for myself or whinging, I just want to point out the insanity of this entire situation. I blame the quack with his misleading information, and his damn theory that Rickettsia causes “everything”! Well I just don’t know about that. You know I told him 8 months ago that I have had a collapsed right nostril for over 2 years, he said “Oh Rickettsia can cause that”! And not to mention his theory of “you must feel sicker before you feel better”. He gave me a prognosis of a 70% chance of a full recovery in 18 months to 2 years (that was July 2005).

    I have explained DOP to my parents, but you know I think maybe it is just too late for them to understand anymore. My mum makes me feel like I am just not helping myself. She doesn’t visit me (nothing new really, she never has), she doesn’t treat me like I am ill is what I am trying to say. It really hurts me.

  83. Michael – please don’t get me wrong, I love my mum to pieces, and I know she feels the same. I could not ask for better parents. They have always been there for me.

  84. I can’t remember whether or not one of us already posted this link. It’s to an Oklahoma Gazette article on Morgellons. It also has a place to comment. There’s some comments there that were made by a couple of people we all know.

    http://www.okgazette.com/news/templates/news.asp?articleid=925&zoneid=3

  85. Thanks TC I remember that article. I just found it to be more dribble really.

    And the comments section, OMG!! People are going NUTS aren’t they?

    Chemtrails, bioterror, an escaped experiment; dangerous stuff for folks to be stressing their sick little minds over, and I am serious about that too, very unhealthy.

    I should know, I’ve been there…

  86. Well I couldn’t keep my mouth shut once again, I just made a comment on the okgazette website.

    People have got to stop playing with such fragile minds, these people are really sick and so vulnerable.

  87. I don’t know what the heck that hospital was up to 2 years ago, but it certainly wasn’t an EEG I had.

    This morning was an EEG. I told the technician about the supposed EEG I had 2 years back, she said; “doesn’t sound like one, if so, it was maybe a cheaper, or smaller version”!

    My head just spins you know, such confusion this entire thing brings about.

    By the way, the lady technician said I shouldn’t have been driving myself home. She was really worried about me, and fussed a little, telling me to go have something to eat before I drive, I was rather dizzy afterwards you see. She even walked me around and showed me the cafe.

    I did mention to her that I was very impressed with the Private section of the hospital, very efficient and caring.

  88. Gillian said…

    I said: “Al, you and me both have DOP, as well as an underlying illness of some type, we don’t have the same thing.”

    Gillian, if you know that you had DOP, you don’t have it now. It’s kinda like catch 22.

    Tall Cotton

  89. Jeepers Gillian, did you have a quack hospital as well?

    If you do a Google Image Search for EEG, you see they all look fairly similar:

    http://images.google.com/images?q=EEG

    A bunch of electrodes surround the brain, connected by a bunch of wires to a computer, which records the brain waves.

    What did your EEG machine look like two years ago?

    More importantly, when do you get results from your current round of tests?

  90. What did your EEG machine look like two years ago?

    Very hard to say really. The machine was across the other side of the room, and the guy was sat behind the machine thing. I was in a chair, but I didn’t wear the cap on my head. It was totally different than today.

    More importantly, when do you get results from your current round of tests?

    The test results will be given to the Neurologist, and he said he would phone me asap to let me know if he needs to see me again.

    Gillian, if you know that you had DOP, you don’t have it now. It’s kinda like catch 22.

    Wow! That is good news!

  91. Hello Michael – I was wondering if you had ever seen this? If you click on the link, and scroll down the page to find the heading;
    “MORPHBORGS WELCOME HERE – NEW NAME FOR OUR DISEASE”. Apparently Dr Wymore gave Morgellons this new scientific name of “Morphborgs”??
    http://morphborgs.blog.com/

  92. Just to clarify what Morphborgs are meant to be – “A Bioengineered Plague”.

  93. Michael – I just re-read that Morphborg article, sorry I was wrong about Dr Wymore calling Morgellons Morphborgs, it was Skytroll, my apologies for the mix up.

  94. I do have a real burning question that has nothing to do with the current topic, but I have to ask;

    What on earth has happened to Cliff Michelson?? Has he been abducted by Aliens?

  95. Wormwood
    http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/DVH/HerbsTake/0,3927,4064%7CWormwood,00.html

    Our little friend Al told me the other day to stop taking the medication I was on and to take Wormwood instead. And once again reminded me that “Morgellons” had many different stages and changes to go through.

    I told him “NO”, I said if I stop taking Prednisolone just like that, I am sure to drop dead.

    He is the second “male morgellons sufferer” to tell me to take Wormwood in the past 2 years.

  96. I don’t know where Cliff went, but I know that the man’s ideas about Morgellons are nothing but pure nonsense. The same is true for Jan’s ideas. They’ve both obviously lost touch with reality.

    TC

  97. So after reading that link on “wormwood” would you say that people have been trying to help me? or harm me?

    Not nice is it.

  98. Gillian,

    Do you have any lesions at the present time?

    TC

  99. Gillian, I think they were trying to help you. They were just going about it the wrong way, with half baked theories and unproven remedies. Had you followed their advice you probably would be worse off, but they probably meant well.

    We need to take responsibility for our own health, and that includes making wise decisions about who we trust for medical advice – regardless of their well-meaning intentions.

  100. Do you have any lesions at the present time?

    No, not one.

  101. MyFox Cleveland | Medical Mystery: Morgellons Syndrome
    http://www.myfoxcleveland.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=1549984&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId =3.2.1

    Michael – I found this link, it is meant to be on “Morgellons Syndrome”, the link doesn’t appear to work for me, can you take a look please, thanks.

  102. Do you have any lesions at the present time?

    No, not one.

    Just to clarify for you – my skin is not the major issue here at all.

  103. We need to take responsibility for our own health, and that includes making wise decisions about who we trust for medical advice – regardless of their well-meaning intentions.

    I agree Michael, BUT (I always have a “but”) what is one meant to do when it appears that half or more than half of the medical community are deluded, and even delusional?

    I have paid these morons the majority of my disability pension to get to the state I am in now, this is so unforgiving.

  104. I agree Michael, BUT (I always have a “but”) what is one meant to do when it appears that half or more than half of the medical community are deluded, and even delusional?

    As Al would say; “They stand out like dogs gonads”.

  105. Maybe half the ones that you have been in contact with. But is that typical? Most people have quite reasonable experiences with health professionals.

    If everyone who had a bad experience with a doctor got together, then it would seem to them that everyone was having a bad experience. Personally I’ve been to the doctor several times, and they seemed quite professional to me.

    Gillian, please don’t tar everyone with the same brush. You seem to have had extraordinary bad luck with both your doctors and your health. Hopefully things are improving.

  106. You’ve said that you have a good doctor now, Gillian, which that is a relief to know. I don’t know what kind of doctors you’ve been to. One delusional-acting doctor is too many, but over half that you’ve seen, is mind boggling. If they were licensed and accredited by the medical board that could not, or should not, be happening. If they haven’t been, and they’ve been quacks, instead, well, that’s altogether different.

    I know that we are oftentimes weakened by injury and illness, but NEVER allow a doctor, if anyone finds themselves in the presence of one whose behavior is questionable, to subject us to anything we are in the least bit weary of. Gosh, I mean, I know that the conditions we’re there for can render us quite powerless at times, but still, if a doctor seems strange, I hope there would be something left inside a person to know better than to subject themselves to anything unusual.

    I am aware of some rare sicko doctors, having heard reports of female patients being somehow developmentally challenged in their thinking that they had to subject themselves to criminal behavior. Such women, as the ones I am aware of, have brought national attention to this from banding together, as fellow patients, and suing these types of doctors. However, they were rarely even weakened by illness, and were active participants in the act of violation, all because, they’d claimed, they looked upon doctors as figures of authority and thought they had to subject themselves to something they knew was dead wrong!! Go figure.

    If past bad experiences have occurred, to anyone, like that, and nothing can be done now about it now, take another person along to appointments, or, if nobody else is present, yell for a nurse if they are acting weird. Get out, never go back, and report them.

    I have dealt with a lot of doctors over many years. I came across two or three with less than impeccable bedside manners, but I have no complaints, at all, concerning their professionalism. I think our doctors do an excellent job assisting us. Sometimes, we also have to assist them, because they can’t read our minds. (Hehe, that was a personal note, cuz some people I know in my life, seem to think that they can.)

  107. Gillian, please don’t tar everyone with the same brush. You seem to have had extraordinary bad luck with both your doctors and your health. Hopefully things are improving.

    I don’t normally tar everyone with the same brush Michael. But this so called health system of ours in Australia has had me thinking otherwise for a long time now.

    I have always been a very healthy woman. This is not bad luck that I have been having. A diagnosis of Fibromyalgia 10 years ago, and we still don’t really know what that is, or what causes it. Maybe the “end stage” of Fibro. is DOP, and then ya die.

    So..things are not improving and just for the record “they all pee in the same pot”!

  108. BIG PROMISES FROM THE MAIN POLITICAL PARTIES ON VICTORIA’S TROUBLED HEALTH SYSTEM (Stateline Victoria: 17/11/2006)
    http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/vic/content/2006/s1791434.htm
    http://www.abc.net.au/stateline/vic/content/2006/s1791436.htm

    See..it’s not just me complaining.

  109. Gillian, fibromyalgia is disabling to many, but that’s all. There have been a lot of ongoing studies on it, and they’ve linked it to things such as pain signals being heightened in our brains, cervical spine injuries, the chiari malformation, IBS, and I don’t recall everything that’s been written. It’s something I take in stride and chose to believe what my rheumatologist said about it, in that it’s exactly the same thing that our elders always referred to as rheumatism. I’m well used to it, after getting diagnosed over twenty one years ago with it, when they called it fibrositis, and luckily, it’s the least of my health problems.

    But, as far as the health care system is concerned, the United States is far from being perfect, also. Reading the links you provided, well, I could cry someone a river over the bureaucratic messes I’ve been in, too. Many of us have outrageous stories.

    I’m real sorry things are the ways that they are, too, but that bureaucracy has nothing to do with “morgellons disease”, though. As the story has it, people, over here, have apparently had no trouble being seen by doctors, and a very large number of doctors, too.

  110. Thanks Smileykins for that info. Well I have learnt something new about Fibromyalgia, I wasn’t aware that the chiari malformation came into. I had researched chiari a while back which seemed quite fitting for some of my symptoms.

    Fibromyalgia seems to get brushed under the table in this country, maybe because it seems to be mainly women suffering.

    So if your a homosexual male in this country, ya get the best help and medical treatment, I have witnessed it with my own eyes.

  111. I’m real sorry things are the ways that they are, too, but that bureaucracy has nothing to do with “morgellons disease”, though. As the story has it, people, over here, have apparently had no trouble being seen by doctors, and a very large number of doctors, too.

    So what the hell is wrong with the medical community in Australia then?

    Bureaucracy has nothing to do with “morgellons disease”? Do I laugh or cry?

  112. You’re welcome, Gillian. There truly are tons of health problems that are far more serious than fibromyalgia. If you have the chiari malformation it will show up on the MRI you had, and can be addressed. But fibromyalgia is basically just a non-threatening chronic pain and fatigue condition of connective tissues. There’s nothing infectious involved, and no risks to our major organs or anything like that. Some people are depressed with it, and the treatment for fibromyalgia is through antidepressants. They supposedly help a few people with both of those conditions. My rheumatologist insisted I that I try klonopin for restorative sleep, and I had a go at it for a month or two. Weighing the risks, I chose to not refill the prescription. Plus, I’d already been living with fibromyalgia for over twenty years, so I was pretty used to it by the time it was detected in a second, routine, diagnosis.

  113. Correction: The second time around, that fibromyalgia was found in a routine exam, was fourteen years later, not twenty. Sorry.

  114. # Gillian Says:
    November 23rd, 2006 at 2:53 pm

    (Smileykins’ quote) I’m real sorry things are the ways that they are, too, but that bureaucracy has nothing to do with “morgellons disease”, though. As the story has it, people, over here, have apparently had no trouble being seen by doctors, and a very large number of doctors, too.

    So what the hell is wrong with the medical community in Australia then?

    Bureaucracy has nothing to do with “morgellons disease”? Do I laugh or cry?

    I certainly have no idea, Gillian. But, on the average, MRF says that patients have seen as many as ten to forty doctors. That happens to be a stupendous amount (not to mention an unthinkable waste of money), considering the facts of the matter. Most people can’t imagine anybody going to that many physicians, receiving the same diagnosis, and thinking there’s no trace of a hint to the patient what’s up. For most people, when in doubt, a second opinion is all that is necessary. For certain matters, I think a third opinion is not unreasonable.

    You seem to have a whole lot of health problems, and speak as though you have seen a lot of doctors, too. Still, though, whether you’ve had trouble in getting a doctor, or whether you’ve had to wait for extended periods of time on bureaucrats to authorize a procedure, I’m sorry, but either way, that has nothing to do with anything known as “morgellons disease”. That is why I’d said that it doesn’t apply.

  115. You seem to have a whole lot of health problems, and speak as though you have seen a lot of doctors, too.

    My health problem started 10 years ago when I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia. I was at my “peak” in my life, only 28yrs old, extremely fit, healthy, vibrant, loved life, worked hard in my new career, ran a home, walked an hour everyday, lifted weights, practiced yoga, dance – all those normal things (and I wanted to have a baby too)!! Six months following the fibromylagia diagnosis I was put on Antidepressants. 18 months later I had a “supposed” nervous breakdown, had to quit my job, and go on sickness benefits. THEN I was put on Xanax.

    I was put on Rivotril(Klonopin) by a Hospital here in Melbourne, and took it for many years. I haven’t taken Rivotril for 2 years exactly now.

    Please read the symptom list below. These withdrawal symptoms can last from weeks, to months to years.

    BENZODIAZEPINE – WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS

    DOUBLE VISION

    TIRED EYES

    BLURRED VISION

    SCREWING UP OF THE EYES

    TENSION BETWEEN THE EYES

    RAPID BLINKING OF THE EYES

    DIZZINESS

    AGITATED SIGHT-LOSS OF CONTROL OF THE MOVEMENT OF THE EYES

    PUPILS IN THE EYES BECOME MINUTE

    IRIS IN THE EYES CHANGE COLORS

    WAVES, SPARKS AND FLASHES OF LIGHT

    HYPERSENITIVITY TO LIGHT AND
    SOUND AND SMELL

    SEEING SPOTS

    TOTAL LOSS OF CONFIDENCE

    FEAR OF BEING ALONE

    THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS THAT YOU ARE DYING

    RAPID MOOD CHANGES

    INSOMNIA

    LOSS OF CONCENTRATION

    LOSS OF INTEREST IN PEOPLE AND THINGS

    INABILITY TO READ

    DYSPHORIA

    FEELING OF VULNERABILITY

    REPETITIVE THOUGHTS

    A FEAR OF INSANITY

    A FEELING OF IMPENDING DOOM

    DEMENTED AND MURDEROUS THOUGHTS

    IRRATIONAL RAGE

    LOSS OF SELF RESPECT

    DEPRESSION

    ANXIETY

    PARANOIA

    UNUSUALLY DISTURBED AND SENSITIVE

    PHOBIAS

    FEAR OF LOSING CONTROL

    DE-REALISATION

    SPEECH DIFFICULTIES

    DIFFICULTY IN WRITING SLOWLY

    INABILITY TO WRITE

    DISORIENTATION

    INABILITY TO COMPHREHEND THE SIMPLEST OF THINGS

    OBSESSIVE BEHAVIOUR

    FEAR OF WATER

    HYSTERICAL AND INNAPPROPRIATE LAUGHTER

    NIGHTMARES

    LOSS OF MEMORY

    FEELINGS OF THE SPIRIT BEING OUT
    OF SYNCHRONISATION WITH THE BODY

    SUICIDAL FEELINGS

    AGORAPHOBIA

    DEPERSONALISATION

    BRAIN MOVING WITHIN THE SKULL

    INABILITY TO COPE WITH A LOT OF INFORMATION

    HALLUCINATIONS

    VERTIGO

    TIREDNESS

    LEGS, ARMS AND HEAD VERY HEAVY

    PARESTHESIA

    EXERCISE INTOLERANCE

    SEVERE MUSCULAR RIDGIDITY ALL OVER

    MUSCULAR WEAKNESS

    MUSCLE WASTAGE

    ACHING JOINTS AND MUSCLES

    RESTLESSNESS

    RESTLESS LEGS IN BED AT NIGHT

    SEVERE CRAMPING IN THE STOMACH

    ELECTRIC SHOCK AND MUSCULAR SPASMS

    UNABLE TO WALK

    ARMS AND LEGS FEEL DETACHED FROM BODY

    GRINDING TEETH

    INTENSE JAW PAIN

    JAWS CLAMPED TOGETHER

    NEURALGIA

    PAINS IN THE NECK TO THE SHOULDER BLADES

    TICKLING AND ITCHING FEELING OVER THE WHOLE BODY

    NUMBNESS, PAIN, PINS AND NEEDLES

    SHARP THROBBING PAIN IN THE WRISTS

    CLUMSINESS

    LACK OF CO-ORDINATION

    BUILDINGS APPEAR TO BE LEANING

    LEGS FEEL LIKE JELLY

    SWEATING

    FEELING OF EXTREME COLD

    NAUSEA

    FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS

    TIGHT BAND AROUND THE HEAD

    INTENSE FUZZY FEELING IN THE HEAD

    TINNITUS

    EARACHE

    SINUS PROBLEMS

    TWITCHING OF THE HEAD

    FEELINGS OF WORMS UNDER THE SCALP

    SEIZURES

    PAINS IN THE TEMPLE

    SEVERE HEADACHES

    EXTREMELY NERVOUS AND JUMPY

    HYPERACTVITY

    PANIC ATTACKS

    FEELINGS OF SHAKING INSIDE AND OUT

    HEAVY POUNDING OF THE HEART WHEN CLIMBING STAIRS

    BREATHLESSNESS

    OVER BREATHING

    HEARTBURN

    PAINS IN THE LUNGS

    MISSED HEARTBEATS

    MILD HYPERTENSION

    PAINS IN THE CHEST

    IMPOTENCY

    HAIR LOSS

    PROBLEMS OF DECAYING TEETH AND GUMS

    CRACKED AND SORE LIPS

    ALLERGIES TO FOOD

    SENSITIVE TO CHEMICALS AND ODORS

    METALLIC TASTE IN MOUTH

    EXTREME THIRST

    SWALLOWING DIFFICULTIES

    DRY MOUTH

    FEELING BLOATED

    DIAHORREA

    CONSTIPATION

    RASHES,BLOTCHES AND
    BURNING SENSATIONS ON THE SKIN

    TOE AND FINGERNAILS CHANGE COLOR
    FROM PINK TO GREY

    SALIVA RUNNING FROM MOUTH WHILE SLEEPING

    CUTS AND ABRASIONS TAKE WEEKS TO HEAL

    SPEECH APPEARS TO BE TWO FEET IN FRONT
    OF YOU WHEN SPEAKING

    FLASHBACKS

    BURNING SPINE

  116. Ashton H.
    Protracted Withdrawal Syndromes from Benzodiazepines.
    Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment 1991; 8: 19-28.
    ” Even with long-acting benzodiazepines such as diazepam, there is usually a history in long-term users of steadily increasing anxiety, with the development over the years of new symptoms such as agoraphobia, often with perceptual distortions and depersonalisation, despite continued usage of these supposedly anxiolytic drugs. ” [p. 22]

    ” Depression can be caused or aggravated by chronic benzodiazepine use, yet it also appears to be a feature of the withdrawal syndrome. It may be severe enough to qualify as a major depressive disorder and may persist for some months. (—) It is not clear whether protracted depressive symptoms are more common in patients with a previous history of depression or whether it recurs in subsequent years after withdrawal. [p. 25]

    ” Tinnitus is a common symptom of benzodiazepine withdrawal and may initially result from the characteristic general hypersensitivity to sensory stimuli. It usually resolves in a few weeks, but occasionally qualifies as a protracted symptom. Busto et al. (1988) describe two cases in which tinnitus persisted for 6 and 12 months after withdrawal and mention a third patient who was unable to withdraw from benzodiazepines because of severe tinnitus at each attempt. Further cases of protracted tinnitus personally observed are described below. ” [p. 25]

    ” Tinnitus is fairly common in the general population, and the apparent relation to benzodiazepine use may be incidental, but these cases raise the suspicion that benzodiazepines may occasionally cause permanent or only slowly reversible brain damage. ” [p. 25]

    ” Formication is also common during benzodiazepine withdrawal, and many patients temporarily complain of a feeling of insects crawling on the skin or of lice or nits in the hair. Occasionally, more bizarre sensations are reported, such as a feeling of slime or water running over the body, a sense of inner vibration, or a feeling of “trembling inside”, and these symptoms may be protracted. [p. 26]

    ” Occasionally muscle jerking persist for a year or more after withdrawal and the clinical picture may suggest myoclonus, tics, or exaggerated startle reactions. (—) Restless legs syndrome may also be protracted. [p. 26]

    ” Gastrointestinal symptoms are extremely common during chronic benzodiazepine use and in withdrawal. Many chronic benzodiazepine users have been investigated by gastroenterologists and found to have “irritable bowel syndrome.” [p. 26]

    [Key words Valium, diazepam, withdrawal, anxiety, depression, tinnitus, depersonalization, long-term effects]

  117. Klonopin (Rivotril) Tablets
    http://www.rocheusa.com/products/klonopin/pi.pdf

    Brain-Disabling Effects
    of Benzodiazepines
    Peter R. Breggin, M.D
    http://www.benzo.org.uk/breggin.htm

    Withdrawal reactions from Benzodiazepines
    Excerpt from a Report
    by Peter R. Breggin M.D.
    2002
    http://www.benzo.org.uk/breggin3.htm

    I guess that wraps up my “Morgellons Witch Hunt”!!

  118. Medical research is advancing with leaps and bounds, but the medical community doesn’t have all the answers. They never will. Sometimes we have to learn to live with medical problems until cures and treatments are discovered. Most Morgies, however, have been told what’s wrong with them, but they reject their diagnoses and blame all of their problems on an imaginary disease. They then go farther and blame the imaginary disease on the government, the pharmacheutical industry, or technology. They never consider anything to be their own fault.

    TC

  119. They never consider anything to be their own fault.

    That’s because it isn’t darling.

  120. Gillian,

    Who’s fault is it when someone has it in their head that they have a disease that doesn’t exist? Who’s fault is it when they won’t listen to reason? Who’s fault is it when they repeat the same behavior, over and over, expecting different results? Who’s fault is it that they throw away new clothes and burn their couches? It’s certainly not the fault of the medical community, the pharmacheutical industry, or the government. It may not be the Morgie’s fault that they are mentally incompetent, but they blame other people for their own shortcomings. And they do that while they’re refusing to take their damned medicine. What are you supposed to do with people that are harming themselves, each other, their children, and their pets?

    TC

  121. I’ll tell you the solution. You lock their asses up. While they’re locked up, you give them medication and therapy. When you release them, if they continue to be a threat to themselves, or others, you lock them up again.

    TC

  122. When are people with mental illnesses responsible for symptomatic behavior?

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mental-illness/#3

  123. Well, but, Gillian, there is a difference in being on medication that’s prescribed and monitored by a physician, as opposed to becoming addicted, and abusing benzodiazepine. If you had such a problem, were you treated for withdrawal?

    Most benzodiazepines produce drowsiness, loss of concentration, loss of motor skills or slurred speech. Generally, these symptoms dissipate after several days. As with other prescription medications, people tend to “chase” the feeling of calm that is produced. Their thinking is if one pill produced this feeling of calm, then two pills will produce an even greater feeling of calm. This type of thinking is flawed. With an increase in medication, comes a tolerance, an increase in the consumption of medication causing prescriptions to run out prematurely. This action places the person in a position of finding additional medication. At this point of abuse, the person may begin to see more than one doctor or psychiatrist, visit multiple pharmacies, forge prescriptions or even steal the drug from other people. Basically, they will do whatever is necessary to avoid the symptoms associated with withdrawal.

    At some point in their addiction, the addict might be taking between 20 – 30 pills a day. Even before this point, it is extremely dangerous to try and discontinue benzodiazepine use on your own. Discontinuing use without medical supervision can produce seizures and convulsions, which can be life threatening.

  124. Chemtrails, Nanotech, and Morgellons
    Chemtrails, Nano-Tech and Morgellons – Warning this information can change whirled views. You thought you’d seen it all?
    http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=119374778&blogID=197142828

    Berkeley considering need for nano safety
    Rick DelVecchio, Chronicle Staff Writer
    Friday, November 24, 2006
    http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/11/24/MNGP9MJ4KI1.DTL

  125. When I got to the bottom of one of the links you provided, Gillian, and read that quote from the doctor who authored the page, Peter R. Breggin, M.D.

    “Going to a psychiatrist has become one of the most dangerous things a person can do”

    I strongly disagree!!! Upon further reading there…

    For thirty years Dr. Breggin has served as a medical expert in many civil and criminal suits including individual malpractice cases and product liability suits against the manufacturers of psychiatric drugs. His work provided the scientific basis for the original combined Prozac suits, for the more recent Ritalin class action suits, and for label changes in many psychiatric drugs.

    His opinions should not dissuade, or deter, anyone who needs mental health assistance. There are many good psychiatrists who closely monitor their patients. Patients have to report side effects. Some will subside, in time, just as it is with many prescription medications. If they don’t, and the side effects are bothersome, the patient has to say so, and a good doctor will try something else.

    Drugs, alone, aren’t always the answer, and for morgie people who don’t want to be on meds, yet they want a doctor that can empathize with them, I’ve said, before, a psychologist is who they need. The problem is….well, the hell if I know what it is.

  126. Irresponsible Article In Discover: Vital Signs: Bugs Are Crawling In My Skin
    http://discover.com/issues/dec-06/departments/vital-signs-sore-mystery/

  127. I encourage everyone to read the above link, from discover.com, “Vital Signs: Bugs Are Crawling In My Skin”

    Of course, web sites & media broadcasts on the topic of the mysteries of the unknown, weird science, and conspiracies of all sorts, appeal to some morgie people. That type of stuff is just a form of entertainment
    to some members of the general population, but when people who are ill pay attention to it, it is a crying shame how it interferes with their well being.

    If morgie people could only not worry so much about things they can’t do anything about. Most people do what they can, and let the rest go. If morgie people can’t realize that fear is an option that they’re choosing, they should realize that they are, at least, ill with anxiety/paranoia. That doesn’t seem like it would feel too good, to me. Seriously, it is not that the rest of us need enlightened to the dangers of the world we live in. Here are some friendlier nanotech sites. We can choose not to worry, or allow it to consume us. If not, that needs to be appropriately addressed.

    http://www.nano.gov/

    http://www.fda.gov/nanotechnology/

  128. His opinions should not dissuade, or deter, anyone who needs mental health assistance. There are many good psychiatrists who closely monitor their patients. Patients have to report side effects. Some will subside, in time, just as it is with many prescription medications. If they don’t, and the side effects are bothersome, the patient has to say so, and a good doctor will try something else.

    Very true.

    But in all honesty,it is not the treating Psychiatrist who is at fault, if the prescribed pharmaceutical drug doesn’t work?

    Especially if one has tried about 10 different brands, and still suffered terrible side effects.

  129. Sleeping giant of drug abuse
    http://www.theage.com.au/news/depression/sleeping-giant-of-drug-abuse/2006/06/14/1149964602277.html

    Excerpt:

    “We tend to think of drug addicts as being gaunt, homeless heroin users. But addicts are just as likely to be ordinary people in suburban homes. Two of every 100 Australians have been taking prescription tranquillisers known as benzodiazepines for more than six months, long enough to be addicted. Benzodiazepines, or benzos, include drugs such as Valium, Xanax and Temazepam. Most people don’t get their drugs from street corners or even the internet: they get prescriptions from their GPs.”

  130. Posted this on another thread, not sure if I am doing this correct but anyway

    Hello my name is James In Austin Texas

    Janruary of 2006 I was in vegas for 2 days, after drinking wine for
    several days and nights and sleeping little and then walking to the
    airport my heartrate went to 180 bps where it stayed there for 6
    hours, I was taken by ambulance to the hospital where they checked me
    for cardiac problems which showed to be “grossly negotive” but found
    leisons on my liver. I returned to Austin and started flushing, or
    puritus that would not stop, or would only happen when I drank
    alcohol. Does anyone have such a problem with Alcohol???

    Scans of the liver again showed 3 leisons in Feb 2006. I started
    support for liver and checked into carciniod cancer info and then
    mastocytosis information.

    The flushing would usually only happen after a little wine, In March
    no more wine or alcohol, but still puritus and the creepy crawly
    felling, almost and electrical sensation on my skin, itching etc. I
    fasted 2 times did liver cleanses, colon cleanses and by June the
    liver spots had resolved were gone.

    When I use valium I have no flushing or puritus at all. Now a small
    red spot on my lower left side, doctor said it was H Zoster, that was
    4 months ago, it never itched, but hurt at first. Still red, a couple
    of other smaller ones, but no sensation at all, no fibers at all.

    Biggest problem is with the rapid heartbeat after eating, or with heat
    this I had before the valium.

    Allergist put me on testosterone cream, then I found small white fatty
    like globules on my scalp, which he said was subasus debris from the
    testosterone,,, Hmmm

    Looking for Virginia Savel, but cannot find her. Dr Swartz says he can
    cure me, but how can he know for sure what this is. I was thinking
    Mastocytosis before, and some call him a quack, and to me that means a
    doctor that is willing to thinkoutside the box and not fall in line
    with big pharma/

    Also pain in left shoulder, left ear itching contantly inside sometimes more than other times, sometimes unbearable

    Anyway, got to take out the dog for a walk, need a doctor in Austin
    asap. Any one can help?? Thanks,

    James in Austin

  131. Tallcotton said:

    Who’s fault is it when someone has it in their head that they have a disease that doesn’t exist?

    Don’t know TC, maybe you could tell me?

    Who’s fault is it when they won’t listen to reason?

    Very funny!

    Who’s fault is it when they repeat the same behavior, over and over, expecting different results?

    You have got to be speaking from your experience alone there TC?

    Who’s fault is it that they throw away new clothes and burn their couches?

    I dunno the answer to that one. Christ almighty clothes and couches are not cheap to buy, so beats me???

    It’s certainly not the fault of the medical community, the pharmacheutical industry, or the government.

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    It may not be the Morgie’s fault that they are mentally incompetent, but they blame other people for their own
    shortcomings.

    Hang on now, belly laugh coming up – HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

    And they do that while they’re refusing to take their damned medicine.

    Naughty Noddy!

    What are you supposed to do with people that are harming themselves, each other, their children, and their pets?

    Hmmm, I’d say definitely not contact you TC for advice.

    Just build a rubber room and we’ll all jump in it!

  132. Smileykins Says:
    November 24th, 2006 at 9:07 pm
    Well, but, Gillian, there is a difference in being on medication that’s prescribed and monitored by a physician, as opposed to becoming addicted, and abusing benzodiazepine. If you had such a problem, were you treated for withdrawal?

    Now just back up a bit please, I never had an addiction to benzodiazepines neither did I abuse them. I absolutely hated Xanax when I was first put on them. I’ve never been a pill popper.

    I took the smallest dose they could give me, and it made me feel awful, to the point, I took an overdose of Xanax about 6 months after I had been put on them.

    And guess what….

    I was taken to the local “quack” hospital, and they never pumped my stomach, and they never gave me charcoal, and they even let me discharge myself in the middle of the night in a totally delerious state.

    When I arrived at my apartment I realised I had no keys to get in, I had really no memory of what had happened, and to be honest I had no idea who I was, or what I was doing.

    So I got a lift back to the hospital and asked if I could please “go back to bed” in the ER, because I couldn’t get in my own home.

    They said; No, on ya way. Bye.

    I recall they didn’t even remove my clothes nor did they put me in a hospital gown, they just cut holes in the sleeves of my shirt to get an IV line in. God only nows what the hospital staff said to my parents, because the only feed back I got from my folks via the medical staff was “she is very dehydrated”. My family know me very well, better than that damn hospital. All I have ever really drunk in my life is water, and lots of it, I was brought up that way.

    Don’t believe me???? Ha – you’d want to because it was all very true. The story don’t stop there, it just gets worse.

    I was not treated for withdrawals from Xanax after that overdose. The female doctor who prescribed them in the first place just acted like nothing had happened and the Xanax was never mentioned again.

    Following this horrific event I started with the most severe anxiety attacks, I had never suffered one in my life before.

  133. It was the same “quack” hospital who put me on Rivotril, the CAT Team (Crisis Care Assessment Team).

    The name suits them, they ARE a damn crisis.

    And I took an overdose of Rivotril too.

    I will not bore you with the full run down, I really don’t like to remember it. Put it this way, the CEO of the hospital got a visit from my Dad after this little incident.

    But you know my Dad has worked the majority of his career in hospitals in Melbourne. He was not the least bit surprised by the reception he received from this man, which was nothing more than unco-operation and excuses. We never did track down what happened to all my medication which was held by the hospital, which should have been returned to me.

    No explanation was given either why I was woken up and discharged at 4am in the morning. The doctor who attended to me on arrival at the ER had promised my dad that I would be monitored through the night due to severe low blood pressure (my bed was tilted, head to the floor, feet in the air) and I would be discharged around 10am given I was ok.

    But no didn’t happen. The grumpy old cow of a nurse told me to go call a taxi, pointing out to me the “taxi” phone on the wall and to wait outside for the cab.

    I remember making that phone call to the cab company. I said to the man; “tell the driver I will be waiting out the front of the ER, I’m the one with the swollen face and puffy eyes – which I can hardly see through, and yes I am crying too”.

  134. To James – I am sorry, but what the heck are you talking about?

    To answer your question on Alcohol – NO!!! I don’t drink the stuff, and if I ran this damn country I would ban Alcohol completely.

    Is it just me, or did his post not make any sense at all?

    Maybe I’m just sick of reading tripe.

  135. James,

    I’m sorry you’re having problems with your health. I don’t know any doctors in the Austin area. Dr. Schwartz was in Florida, the last I heard, and Ginger Savely was in San Francisco. I wouldn’t recommend either one of these people. In my opinion, they ar both quacks. I think the same thing is true for any doctor or nurse that claims to treat Morgellons.

    By the sounds of your letter, you’re looking for a “Morgellons” doctor. Do you think you have Morgellons? If so, may I ask, Why? There’s no such thing as Morgellons, and to search for such a doctor you’d be wasting time and putting your health in greater jeopardy. I think you should stick with a mainstream doctor and not have any dealings with those on the fringe.

    I hope you know that your drinking machine is broken. As you search for a good doctor you need to quit drinking. Your drinking days are over, or should be. It’s a life or death matter. Don’t be surprized at what you see coming out of your skin. Get your mind off of fibers and get into a clinic. Good luck to you, James.

    Tall Cotton

  136. James, I’m glad you’re here. Please abandon thinking you have “morgellons disease”, if you want to survive. If a doctor diagnosed you with herpes zoster, did this doctor also know of your liver condition? I hope you know that you have to centralize your care with one primary care physician, and not jump from one doctor to another, like so many of the “morgellons” patients do.

    Do you have your liver enzymes monitored regularly? Also, do you know whether you’re diabetic, and do you know your blood pressure, cholesterol and trigylceride levels? If not, request testing.

    When testosterone cream is applied, there are some side effects that can occur. In most cases the side effects are mild; yet they can grow more severe if untreated. These side effects can include:

    * Depression, anxiety, and possible mood disorders.
    * Indigestion and other stomach disorders.
    * High blood pressure due to fluid retention.
    * Headaches and dizziness.
    * Prostate problems. (Keep in mind that men who already have prostate problems won’t be able to use testosterone cream or any other type of testosterone therapy.) Note: If you are a male, ask for a PSA blood test
    * Skin irritation where the testosterone cream is applied.

    Please read from the below links, James, and tell your primary care doctor to give you a referral to a cardio-vasucular specialist. This is your life, and not the time to be trapped within the throes of entertaining a fantasy disease. You really are ill with things that seriously need attended to properly. The left shoulder blade pain could very easily be referred pain from your heart. I think your heart is where your MAIN focus should be.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiovascular_disease

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachycardia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angina_pectoris

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrhosis

    http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_mellitus

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles

    You definitely DO NOT NEED Ginger Savely, and, as you also said, “Dr Schwartz says he can cure me, but how can he know for sure what this is?” Forget this “morgellons disease”, James. There is no such thing!!!

    But, if you could pass some important things onto others, since they’ll listen to you, one of the persons you have communicated with on a morgellons message board, awakens with bluish tinted finger nails. Please try persuading this person to read that it is due to cyanosis. They may also need a cardio-vascular referral.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanosis

    Someone mentioned that the symptoms of mastocytosis were nearly identical to “morgellons disease”. NO, there is no “morgellons disease”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastocytosis

    Many people have no understanding of their bodies, whatsoever, including what our liver is for. A non-existing “morgellons disease” has not made the ones with liver problems ill.

    http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver

    And last, but not least, many such patients discuss, and display, feelings of rage. Please pass this along.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mood_disorder

    Believers in “morgellons disease” need to read things of true value, like Michael’ blog topics, and they all need to look into the conditions they have really been diagnosed with, and/or symptoms that can account for lots of things known to mankind, and discuss it with their doctors. If people have to hang onto the false belief of “morgellons disease”, I would like to know what, exactly, they are hoping for. I would love to see a “patients’ wish list” started somewhere on line.

    To answer Gillian’s,

    But in all honesty,it is not the treating Psychiatrist who is at fault, if the prescribed pharmaceutical drug doesn’t work? Especially if one has tried about 10 different brands, and still suffered terrible side effects.

    I’m sorry, but I have said, numerous times, that if a patient is unable to be responsible for themselves, which includes effectively communicating with their physician(s), that they need a health care advocate who can do it for them.

    I also think that people who don’t know any better are the “we”, in the excerpt you provided, who stereotype drug addiction. There are good doctors, and there are bad doctors. If a patient is not savvy enough to know the difference, for whatever reason, yes, sometimes they will end up suffering consequences. Everything falls back to personal responsibility for ourselves. It is truly misfortunate that living in the world presents so many difficulties for some people, especially when they are vulnerable, and have no one watching out for them. It’s extremely sad.

    Drug abuse is one of the causes for secondary organic delusional parasitosis, as I have stated them all, many times. Read this man’s double-edged sword, if you think differently. There is NO “morgellons disease”. It is much more appealing to toss blame everywhere, here, there , and yon, for those unable to deal with themselves. That still won’t make a non-existing disease become real to the rest of society.

    http://www.rense.com/general72/crug.htm

    People are ill, from a variety of causes, all, creating similar experiences for them.

  137. Gillian,

    When I referred to Morgies, I wasn’t including you in that group. Afterall, you admitted, yourself, that there is no Morgellons Disease. That would make you an ex-morgie, like me. But, of course, your posts on another forum indicate that you’ve been talking out both sides of your mouth. Do you think we’re blind?

    Tall Cotton

  138. P. S. Belly laugh that, Gillian!!

    TC

  139. Gillian, you’d said that you were in withdrawal and had solved your mystery, or so I’d thought. You’ve listed far too many confusing health matters, all along, for any stranger on the web to sort out. Strangers aren’t responsible for you, anyway, but we really have painstakingly sifted through it, and tried to sort anything out that could be. There is no need to become hostile or defensive towards anyone who’s trying to understand any of your comments. It’s impossible, and James shouldn’t be discouraged from doing something of a similar nature, if he wants to try to understand what is going on with his health. You need a licensed & accredited doctor, and an advocate to bridge the communication gap. The past is done with. Maybe these links can direct you to someone that can help.

    http://www.sane.org/Action/Action/Mental_illness_can_be_confusing._Getting_help_isn%92t._1800_18_SANE..html

    http://www.mhca.org.au/help.html

  140. Gillian said…

    To James – I am sorry, but what the heck are you talking about?

    To answer your question on Alcohol – NO!!! I don’t drink the stuff, and if I ran this damn country I would ban Alcohol completely.

    Is it just me, or did his post not make any sense at all?

    Maybe I’m just sick of reading tripe.

    Yes, Gillian, it’s just you. His post made perfect sense. Why is James’ health information tripe, and your’s not tripe? Havn’t we talked enough about Gillian to suit you?

    I don’t guess you remember prohibition, but surely you’ve read about it. If you were to outlaw alcohol, you would have very big problems with bootlegging, lots of violence, gang wars, deaths, and still , people would be getting drunk, just like always.

    Tall Cotton

  141. Tallcotton & Smileykins – I do not know who you are. One thing I do know is that YOU both seem to have something to hide. I do NOT.

    What did you TWO get yourselves involved with hey???

    Do you think I am complete idiot? I am NOT.

    Funny how NO ONE ie. Mary Leitao or my shrink will contact ME.

    What on earth are you Tallcotton and Smileykins trying to do to ME?

    Of course I go to another group I have told you that. And what is wrong with playing both sides of the fence. No one has helped me, I will repeat that for you NO ONE.

    I have nothing to lose by posting nothing BUT the truth on this blog site, and the people who have done wrong will go DOWN.

    You betta believe it, and I want to see it happen before I depart this insane world.

    Three blind mice see how they run!!

    I could have both of you completely wrong with who you are or your purpose for being here, but the timing of your blog site “The Lie of Morgellons” HAHAHAHA What a damn joke YOU both are.

    I am extremely ill and my head hurts like hell, and it is thanks to idiots like you two, who obviously have something to hide.

    So what do you say about that?

  142. Gillian,

    You told us that Morgellons is not a disease. You tell the people a different story on the Morgellons Believer’s forum. What’s wrong with playing both sides of the fence. That’s called being two-faced.

    We have nothing to hide, and our story, entitled, “The Lie of Morgellons”, is nothing but the truth. It’s our experience, Gillian. It’s not supposed to be anyone else’s experience but ours. If it doesn’t help you in any way, ignore it. I think you need to read up on hypochondriasis. That’s obviously the problem you have.

    Tall Cotton

  143. I say that you have had center stage airing what is wrong with you on Michael’ blog, and that you have tugged at my heartstrings, and played me long enough, abac68 aka sarach conner, aka gillian.

  144. Gillian,

    You don’t make one lick of sense. There is no Morgellons. There is no Morgellons pathogen. There is no conspiracy. These truths are a good place to begin with your recovery. But you are bouncing back and forth from believing these things, to believing the opposite. No one is going to pay for anything. There’s nothing to be paid for. If doctors have wronged you, that’s a personal problem. It doesn’t have anything to do with Morgellons. There is no Morgellons, period!

    TC

  145. See I told ya’ll I was a NUT!!!

  146. well smiley and Gillian, I do not know who you are, you are one of those persons that simply say that all are delusional I suppose. New developement after cutting my finger blue fibers were growing out of the wound within 24 hours this was new for me, same as what I found when I cut myself shaving. I am not sure who on this board are here to help and who are here to hurt, but I have a good idea. I am not delusional, I am not sure what this board is, with so many of you guys calling others delusional, I think it is clear where some of you are coming from and it really makes me a bit sick.

  147. Topic: Morgellons-and-Neurotic-Excoriations

    Excerpt from johnboy’s comment #14:

    July 22nd, 2006 at 10:58 pm

    I would like to quote from an article I just read which I think pertains to the seemingly futile efforts of some of our more compassionate bloggers to try and help the sufferers: “you can’t reason people out of something that they didn’t arrive at reasonably in the first place”.

  148. When I referred to Morgies, I wasn’t including you in that group. Afterall, you admitted, yourself, that there is no Morgellons Disease. That would make you an ex-morgie, like me. But, of course, your posts on another forum indicate that you’ve been talking out both sides of your mouth. Do you think we’re blind?

    Tall Cotton

    I am nothing like you TC and as for whatever Morgellons Disease is or was, that final decision will be made by the CDC, not by YOU.

    Havn’t we talked enough about Gillian to suit you?

    I was hoping that by putting myself forward, it would in turn help anyone else claiming to have Morgellons. And besides I am still being treated like crap by every single person around me, including the medical profession. I still have NO ONE to talk to. So I start thinking to myself this entire journey has been a waste of time.

    And then I start to tell myself that Morgellons has to be nothing other than a criminal act and experiment.

    So shut ya trap TC, you make me sick.

  149. P. S. Belly laugh that, Gillian!!

    TC

    I will don’t worry. Since when have you been Saint TC hmmm?

  150. Smileykins Says:
    November 28th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
    Gillian, you’d said that you were in withdrawal and had solved your mystery, or so I’d thought.

    I am not in withdrawal. I was merely pointing out that my symptoms could well be related to useless psychiatric drugs I should never have been put on in the first place.

    I’m sorry, but I have said, numerous times, that if a patient is unable to be responsible for themselves, which includes effectively communicating with their physician(s), that they need a health care advocate who can do it for them.

    Here we go again. You love to dictate don’t ya Smiley. Stop sucking up the arses of the medical profession ok. Patients, including myself are not at fault. I have never had trouble communicating my needs to doctors. Tell me then, how do you teach a doctor to get his head from up his arse hey??

    I also think that people who don’t know any better are the “we”, in the excerpt you provided, who stereotype drug addiction. There are good doctors, and there are bad doctors. If a patient is not savvy enough to know the difference, for whatever reason, yes, sometimes they will end up suffering consequences. Everything falls back to personal responsibility for ourselves. It is truly misfortunate that living in the world presents so many difficulties for some people, especially when they are vulnerable, and have no one watching out for them. It’s extremely sad.

    Savvy??!! Smiley you make a doctors visit sound like going out to war! Do you think we are all as stupid as TC??

    And a complete “know all” like yourself??

    Let me think now hmmm, who would go to such great lengths to want to debunk Morgellons Disease??

    Maybe the person who invited it? Just a thought.

    Let me tell you right here and now, you ain’t going to make me look a fool on this side of the world.

    I have been USED and ABUSED since learning of Morgellons.

    Is that why you are so concerned with me “wanting to get even”??

    Don’t panic love, I am not that sort of person.

    People are ill, from a variety of causes, all, creating similar experiences for them.

    I could have told you that 2 years ago, but someone kept talking bloody fibers to me all the time.

    Smelly go back to the box you just crawled out of please. Yes I am defensive, and angry. You try living with a selfish alcoholic, and dealing with a deluded medical system. Not much left you know when one has lost just about everything thanks to the birth of Morgellons.

  151. This site is only set up to “debunk” morgellons and to ridicule those that have it.
    It is truly a waste of time for anyone looking for answers.

    Ohhh yes and Lyme disease does not exist either, agent orange was not toxic, and depleted uranium for our returning troops is Nutritious and healthy. Yes you debunkers have been heard over and over again.

    Nope nope, nothing at all to see here folks just move along polyethylene fibers growing out of your skin attached to some little wormlike creature is natural of course. Go take your meds and stop worrying about it is the message this board has.

    Who would benefit from the disinformation and or “debunking”, very easy, those that are responsible for its creation and release, either planned or by accident, they would benefit. Yes I agree, hey Smiley do you work for or are associatied with a nano tech/bio engineering company. Just wondering.

  152. I know, we can have a trials & tribulations contest!!! If you can’t grow up, stop complaining.

  153. James, I’m sorry I gave you sound advice.

  154. Gillian,

    No one is making you look like a fool, but you, and that’s because you are a fool. You’re also mentally ill. Everyone but Morgies can see that, and that’s because they are mentally ill too. You people are totally transparent to everyone from the CDC on down. You had better reinforce your delusions some more. If you don’t, the CDC’s report will bring your world of fantasy crashing to the ground.

    TC

  155. Smileykins

    Taking a gun to my head and blowing my brains out is better advice than you gave myself or could give anyone else with this. You people are transparent by covering this up as delusional. You cannot be human. My wife, my children, and even my household pets, have this. Sores, fibers, the works. So we are all delusional?
    I am a scientist and I can do research and it is not difficult to see this disease for what it is, and it is not difficult to see what you are.
    You are an abomination to mankind and you sir have no morals and no soul. Where you are going to end up when you pass by this life and lifetime to somewhere else good luck because you are going to need it. You are fooling not one person that has this and you never will.

  156. James,

    If you’re whole household is delusional, I’m very sorry. That must be rough on the neighbors.

    You said that you are a scientist, and yet, you indicate that you are also a Morgie. Don’t you realize that it is impossible to be both Morgie and “Morgellons” scientist. The two are mutually exclusive.

    Scientists form logical conclusions based on evidence. Morgies do not! Anyone can be a Morgie, simply by believing they have Morgellons. A Morgie that thinks he’s a scientist is delusional.

    Of course, Morgies are already delusional about a lot of things. Well, so much for the here and now.

    As far as the hereafter is concerned, I suggest that you worry about how you fare on Judgement Day, and not be concerned about how things turn out for Smileykins.

    You may depend on luck, but she isn’t. By the way, she’ a Miss, not a Mister. She’s also one heck of a fine woman.

    Good luck with your problems.

    Tall Cotton

  157. James, I don’t know what you’re talking about. After reading comment #131, that you’d posted on November 26th, I had said that I was glad you’d come here, and, in comment #137, I had also said:

    Do you have your liver enzymes monitored regularly? Also, do you know whether you’re diabetic, and do you know your blood pressure, cholesterol and trigylceride levels? If not, request testing.

    I addressed what you’d said about having shingles. I addressed what you’d said about the testosterone cream you’re using. I’d also said:

    Please read from the below links, James, and tell your primary care doctor to give you a referral to a cardio-vasucular specialist. This is your life, and not the time to be trapped within the throes of entertaining a fantasy disease. You really are ill with things that seriously need attended to properly. The left shoulder blade pain could very easily be referred pain from your heart. I think your heart is where your MAIN focus should be.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiovascular_disease

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachycardia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angina_pectoris

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrhosis

    http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_mellitus

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles

    You definitely DO NOT NEED Ginger Savely, and, as you also said, “Dr Schwartz says he can cure me, but how can he know for sure what this is?” Forget this “morgellons disease”, James. There is no such thing!!!

    James. Do you understand that you posted your information, and that you’e mad at me for interpretting it the way I did? Is this a normal reaction when you ask for help and someone does their best to give you a little advice, the only way they can?

    Just look at what you said, next, in comment #148…

    james Says:
    December 1st, 2006 at 10:25 pm

    well smiley and Gillian, I do not know who you are, you are one of those persons that simply say that all are delusional I suppose. New developement after cutting my finger blue fibers were growing out of the wound within 24 hours this was new for me, same as what I found when I cut myself shaving. I am not sure who on this board are here to help and who are here to hurt, but I have a good idea. I am not delusional, I am not sure what this board is, with so many of you guys calling others delusional, I think it is clear where some of you are coming from and it really makes me a bit sick.

    Gillian didn’t understand a word you’d said, all caught up in posting her own problems, and referred to yours as “tripe”. I didn’t mean to say anything disrespectful.

    Then, in comment #154…

    Well, just scroll back up there and look at it, James.

    So, I told you I was sorry, in comment #156.

    And, now, look at how you’re talking. After seeing what condition your mind is in, by all means, go on, have a heart attack if you want to, you silly little lady, you.

  158. Oh, James, I’m sorry. That wise crack up there about the trials & tribulations contest was not aimed at you. Rather than being someone who has a need to share my life history, on here, I’d said that in response to:

    Smelly go back to the box you just crawled out of please. Yes I am defensive, and angry. You try living with a selfish alcoholic, and dealing with a deluded medical system. Not much left you know when one has lost just about everything thanks to the birth of Morgellons.

  159. Well, what can I say Smelly and Small you really are excellent “disinformation” specialists.

    You have been extremely successful in adding further confusion to the Morgellons situation.

    I find it quite amusing,Tallcotton will state time and time again “there is NO Morgellons Disease and that is FACT”.

    If it were FACT, the CDC would not be investigating.

    I don’t believe WE ALL have the same illness or disease. It is the skin manisfestation which we are calling MORGELLONS which has brought this community of people around the world together.

    Go ahead by all means and call me crazy, call me mentally ill, call me whatever the hell you want to, doesn’t bother me in the slighest! (just don’t call me late for dinner).

    I know what I know….and you DON’T.

  160. The CDC is not investigating the Morgellons issue because it’s a disease. They are investigating it in an attempt to put the Morgellons nonsense to rest, once and for all. The members of the CDC didn’t just fall off the pumpkin wagon. They know exactly what is going on. I’m done trying to get anything into that hard head of your’s, Gillian. You don’t want to get well, and that’s obvious. Anything else you hear from me is for the benefit of others.

    TC

  161. A certain group of patients have drawn attention to themselves and put it in front of the world. People aren’t acting in any ways, on line, at least, that are considered to be normal, and it’s no secret. Everybody can read their “uniqueness”, plus, a lot of them state that they’re crazy, or going crazy, and that the people in their day to day lives think that they are. This is a movement of misled, disturbed, patients who followed a self-admitted, suspected by doctors, MSBP mother (she later came forth, stating) to force the CDC into investigating why these particularly “unique” patients are the ways they are. It could have all been prevented, if anyone had the capacity to know better.

  162. Tallcotton said: Yes, Gillian, it’s just you. His post made perfect sense. Why is James’ health information tripe, and your’s not tripe? Havn’t we talked enough about Gillian to suit you?

    Dear James, upon going back and reading your post #131, I would like to apologise for saying that your health information was “tripe”. Bottom line to be honest, reading about the alcohol is what set me off and made me angry, and as I read on through your post I could not absorb anything. I could not help but think about my own frustration upon living with an alcoholic. James I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, I did not mean any harm to you whatsoever, and I do hope your health improves. Good luck.

  163. Smileykins said:

    This is a movement of misled, disturbed, patients who followed a self-admitted, suspected by doctors, MSBP mother (she later came forth, stating) to force the CDC into investigating why these particularly “unique” patients are the ways they are. It could have all been prevented, if anyone had the capacity to know better.

    Yes, and thank goodness fot the CDC. The report about Hulda Clark is a very shocking read. The autorities are the only people that can sort this mess out once and fall all. I’m so glad the CDC stepped in.

  164. Anyone who bothers to spend this much time nitpicking about this disease is so obviously disinfo I’m tempted to laugh outloud. This disease is for real and is a biological UN/NATO weapon that is sanctioned by NASA, the EPA, the AF, FBI, etc. With all those agencies making such a strong effort to attack any and all activists who attempt to shed light on this subject, it’s pretty easy to see through the fog. I myself have had my CPU hacked numerous times by all of the agencies listed above. I have router and firewall proof.

  165. “Disinfo” is a useful tool for one who relies on conspiracy theories to support their world view. It allows you to dismiss any fact that hurts your belief as simply a lie, which then strengthens your belief.

    How sad it must be, to live in a world where there are no facts, where nobody is to be trusted, where every little thing is suspicious, where millions of people are conspiring against you, and where there is nothing you can do about it.

    What’s saddest is that after living like that for years, how can you possibly admit you were wrong? Are you doomed to be a conspiracy theorist forever? I can see young people growing out of it as they become more aware of the world – but older people? They will live in irrational fear forever, wasting their lives.

  166. And anyone who reads that (or this), and feels it tugging at the rational center of their brain will fearfully lable it as cunningly constructed psyops, and push it away.

  167. Liz said:

    This disease is for real and is a biological UN/NATO weapon that is sanctioned by NASA, the EPA, the AF, FBI, etc. With all those agencies making such a strong effort to attack any and all activists who attempt to shed light on this subject, it’s pretty easy to see through the fog.

    Hello Liz,
    I am sorry to hear that you see things the way you do. I hope things improve for you. Take care.

    Gillian

  168. Amen. Unfortunately, once, a victim of schizophrenia was in my life for several years. Many of them can appear as seemingly normal, functioning, members of society with an extraordinary amount of interest in conspiracy theories.
    Based on what I learned from my personal experience, that “interest” can be a warning sign. Not everyone is the same, of course, but it is a common trait. I was younger than this person, and, unaware, I trivialized the increasing interest, called it hogwash, and tried to carry on with things. It turned out to have been a “longstanding interest”, and got progressively worse. That was a very trying chapter of my life. Michael is so right, conspiracy theories can be something that some young adults choose to explore, and progress away from, as they mature.

  169. Liz said…

    Anyone who bothers to spend this much time nitpicking about this disease is so obviously disinfo I’m tempted to laugh outloud.

    I’m glad that you realize that the information put out by the Morgellons Believers is bogus. Yes, they do spend a lot of time obsessing over a disease that really doesn’t exist.

    I’m soory that you having trouble with your computer’s security logs. The Morgies go to great lengths to keep the truth from being known. I’m glad that you realize that the disease isn’t real.

    Tall Cotton

  170. Liz said…

    This disease is for real and is a biological UN/NATO weapon that is sanctioned by NASA, the EPA, the AF, FBI, etc.

    Liz, none of those agencies have ever even heard of Morgellons. That’s plumb crazy!

    TC

  171. Dan Rutz shouldn’t be able to recall anyone named Tam-tam, either. Not in the real world we all live in.

  172. As many Morg’s as have called him complaining, it’s a wonder Dan Rutz hasn’t pulled all his hair out. Yet the man keeps a very level head.

    TC

  173. I wholeheartedly agree. And, the fact that so many fell for, and have shared, the carefully devised videos, too, and believe that this man should recall them, is even more proof of the severity of some of the cognitive deficits morgies have. The real world can’t be a world of science fiction just due to their beliefs, and firmly protesting that it is.

  174. All you morgellons disease doubters and cynics go and have a look at the firs captured images of a living organism moving that is the cause of this disease. You are welcome to contact me if you want to hear about my seven-year suffering with this disease. I live in London and did not even know there was a disease listed as morgellons until 2006, or that it was the same as the disease I had been suffering from for the last seven-years documented.

    All-comers doubters welcome to view on youtube at

    youtube.com/watch?v=g1MPArQLsLI

    Also

    youtube.com/watch?v=NKW0bCcfvPE

  175. Something moving. Is that your proof? The video is so out of focus, I’m not even sure if I was looking at the right thing. I’d be embarassed to show that video to anyone, much less use it as evidence of anything.

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