Here’s the best report I’ve seen so far on Morgellons:

http://www.kcet.org/lifeandtimes/blog/?p=131

It’s a seven minute video, and a refreshing change from the brief alarmist segments we’ve seen so far on local TV. It actually presents a very balanced look at the problem, and is well worth a view.

In the accompanying text there is a telling quote from Professor Wymore:

“I entered Morgellons research as a skeptic and have come to understand it as a multi-system disease of unknown cause. Morgellons is off-handedly discounted by many public-health officials and physicians who ignore physical and neurological symptoms — and, instead, label sufferers as delusional without looking at their skin.

If medical professionals would employ a simple diagnostic tool, such as a dermatoscope, they would see microscopic fibers under unbroken, non-scarred skin as my Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences colleagues and I have seen. OSU-CHS researchers have evaluated fibers and material collected by clinical faculty, healthcare providers and patients.”

Wymore seems stuck in a bit of a mental rut, saying the same thing over and over without really stopping to consider the implications of what he is saying.

Supposedly there are over 5000 people with “Morgellons”. They usually report having gone to many doctors, usually in double figures. That’s over 50,000 doctor visits.

What Wymore is saying that that out of those 50,000 visits, they have all been “off-handedly discounted … without looking at their skin”.

Just consider for a moment the implications here. Out of 50,000 docotor visits nobody has noticed that there are fibers growing under the skin? Out of 50,000 doctor visits, including thousands of dermatology visits, nobody looked at the skin of people with obvious skin problems?

Clearly these patients have had their skin examined several times by many doctors. The doctors diagnosed whatever the skin conditions were, and if they saw fibers they did not look suspicious, as it’s perfectly normal to have fibers in your lesions.

Wymore should put up or shut up. He claims to be 100% convinced, and has claimed this for many months. He is a scientist, so he must be basing this on observable evidence. So far all he has produced is a few anecdotes and a couple of unidentified inorganic fibers. If the evidence is as plain and convincing as he claims, then what exactly is the problem in producing this evidence?

Professor Wymore, what would be more productive: performing PCR on bits of lint for several months, or showing your evidence to a few dermatologists and getting the medical community on your side? I suspect that deep inside you really know the score. You are just more comfortable doing your meaningless tests, and being a hero to a sick community.

What would Barry Marshall do?

263 Responses to “KCET Life & Times on Morgellons”

  1. In my opinion, Wymore has sure always appeared to not be well, himself. Maybe whatever it is, really has him thinking he’ll actually win the nobel prize, also, and not have to go about it the right way. I mean that, seriously. . Morgie people have “different ways” of seeing things, than from the ways things really are, ya know.

  2. Whoa. I can’t believe what I just said. “In my opinion, Wymore has sure always appeared to not be well, himself.” Well, it has to appear that way to most anyone, though, doesn’t it? OSU administration has seemed, to me at least, to be asleep at the wheel, or something, allowing his research, and all the ridiculous stuff on the website for “morgellons disease”. This man’s behaviors have always mirrored well documented skills that are employed by people who practice pathological lying, ever since he jumped into this mess. Oh, but I’d tried giving him the benefit of doubt, as hard as I could, thinking, at first, that he’d rushed into it without any forethought, just wanting to do this as a graduate studies’ project. But, Jace set me straight on that, though. Leaping into it, head first, appearing to have done it with the innocence of a small child, not at all like that of a person in possession of all their faculties, to begin with, then, obsessing over collecting fibers, and all the rest of everything, that has ensued since, kind of seems to add up to something, doesn’t it?

  3. If you know Morgellons to be a psychosomatic / delusional disorder, you should be willing to be exposed to the fibers and other “non-biologic” materials. I would be glad to donate, and assist in this experiment…

  4. dont you get sick of it smelly?
    ya just go on and on
    blithely unaware of your
    perdition
    i think the thrust of this post
    is to look at the VIDEO
    i note that you sail, often,
    very close to defamation
    these are people whom you
    besmirch, not the muppets
    for your witty character
    assasinations
    but, as ever you go on

  5. Hi Smiley,

    I recently read this article and thought immediately of Wymore.

    One quote in particular:

    “He believes he’s taken up the cause of people who have been shut out by the scientific community. He’s lionized there. He’s worshipped. He walks on water. It’s embarrassing.”

  6. # cw Says:
    December 8th, 2006 at 1:58 pm e

    If you know Morgellons to be a psychosomatic / delusional disorder, you should be willing to be exposed to the fibers and other “non-biologic” materials. I would be glad to donate, and assist in this experiment…

    Obviously it’s not purely psychosomatic. Delusion is a factor in the varied conditions of various people, but many of them also suffer from related physical conditions.

    Maybe like the person in the link below you have an antibiotic resistant staph infection exacerbated by scratching?

    http://discover.com/issues/dec-06/departments/vital-signs-sore-mystery/?page=2

    If so, then the environmental fibers you happen to find in your lesions will be contaminated with the staph. You can’t really describe something you find in your seeping lesion as “non-biologic” unless you autoclave it first.

  7. If Wymore had a list of the fibers on the police department’s database, ahead of time, it wouldn’t take very long to locate some unidentifiable fibers. He searched for fibers 9 months, I was told. He could probably have even done it without the list, if he selected a new type of material. But then, again, we havn’t been shown his so-called mysterious fibers. They may not have ever existed.

    Oozingpus, how close to defamation of character do you think I am. Nevermind, because I really don’t care what either you or Wymore thinks. You are obviously both idiots. That goes for you too, cw. My God, you people are strange. If you don’t like what you read on this site, go the fuck somewhere else. Nobody is gonna miss you!

    Tall Cotton

  8. What would Barry Marshall do?

    Well, Marshall drank a petri-dish of the bacteria, Heliobacter pylori, to prove his hypothesis about the cause of stomach ulsers. He did that to get people to pay attention.

    He soon developed gastritis. His symptoms disappeared after two weeks, but he took antibiotics to kill the remaining bacteria at the urging of his wife, since halitosis is one of the symptoms of infection.

    So, what would Barry Marshall do? He would already have those fibers where the sun doesn’t shine. That’s way I suggest that Wymore does with his.

    Tall Cotton

  9. Hello there, Jeezelouise. I’ve missed you, and hope that you and your family are well. Whachoo doozin’, readin’ ’bout Big Foot?! Hahaha!!! Yes, seriously, I think there are some parallels in that article, too, and in the quote you cited. Whatever the true motivation for his involvement, and his purposeful reinforcement of dangerous thoughts and practices, it isn’t fair to interfere, further, with such people as this. I think there are only two types of “professional” people who get involved in this mess of “believing in” and “helping” such patients.

    I watched that sad video and yes, I get sick of it, Oozingpus. (If you are “oozing pus”, I hope you’re all right. Is that you, Al?) I believed in the evolution of mental health care reform, and the development of community-based outpatient services, but some of the sad consequences have always concerned me. “Morgellons disease” has proven, up close, how problematic it is to get some people to receive the help they need. They never will, as long as quacks exist.

  10. Another “Oh you’re so scared, you wouldn’t actually want to be in a room with me because you’re a liar.”

    *Sigh* I was exposed to so many “Morgellons” samples in my year and a half at UGA, I should have it growing all over the place. Maybe I’m not actually a hairy Italian womyn, but have been afflicted with Morgellons my whole life?

    Seriously. If you’re so contagious, it’d be like the flu. Everyone would have it who came in contact with you. Where is the evidence?

  11. That was my frustrated rant. I’m in the middle of finals, so I’m a short fuse these days.

    Back to the point I was GOING to make, is that research is a publish or perish industry. If you don’t start cranking out research papers and publishing in peer-reviewed journals, you’re kicked to the curb for someone else who can bring prestige to the institution. When shall we expect a peer-reviewed article from Dr. W? Surely he’s at least announce one or two were in progress or submitted for review.

  12. My reference to Marshall was not to suggest Wymore ingest fibers. I was just suggesting Marshall as a scientist who did real science, with meaningful experiments and actual statistics, letters and papers in peer reviewed publications, and worked with other scientists.

    Check this timeline.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_peptic_ulcer_disease_and_Helicobacter_pylori

    Science obviously takes time. But if Wymore is prepared to shout his 100% certainty from the pulpit of the national media, then he should at least be able to back it up with a little evidence, some experimental results, epidemiology, a number of two, anything?

  13. Michael States “Just consider for a moment the implications here. Out of 50,000 docotor visits nobody has noticed that there are fibers growing under the skin? Out of 50,000 doctor visits, including thousands of dermatology visits, nobody looked at the skin of people with obvious skin problems?”

    Indeed, I encourage everyone to consider this question. Personally, I have seen 6 different physicians, in this order- 2x general practice, derm, derms partner in same practice, psychologist who then referred me back to another dermatologist. The fact is, with exception to my current doctor, The psychologist asked the most pertinent questions and performed a more complete exam than 4 of the other physicians combined. My current physician is doing a good job but is admittedly stumped and does not have any definite answers. Thankfully he is interested and is doing what he can, and he does not doubt that myself or my girlfriends having some type of novel and very strange physical ailment.

    So yes, your question concerning all these visits and the lack of quality exams, should be a very big concern. Especially if one is unlucky enough to have aquired a rarely seen illness or something new and emerging, that is outside the box of everyday types of patient visits.

    Note: These treating physicians are the first line in our countries ability to detect any type of biological event. Both naturally occuring and bioterrorism events included. This supposedly includes a higher priority in watching for agents that disable(considered to be the most likely type of event to happen), as opposed to agents that kill quickly. With this in mind, consider exactly how big the threat of bioterrorism really is and how unprepared our medical industry and nation as a whole, truly is.

    Southcity

  14. I think that Wymore is destined to be an embarassment to Oklahoma State University and the State of Oklahoma. In my opinion, his beliefs about Morgellons are not only incorrect, but also illogical. If he wanted to get involved in this nonsense, he should have approached it on neutral ground, publishing the results of his research, yeah or nay. I think his best chance of getting out of this mess would have been when the CDC announced that it was going to investigate. But now it looks like he’s just going to get in deeper and deeper. What I said about him putting his fibers where the sun doesn’t shine is an expression of my opinion of the may. I don’t mean it literally, although he may be both dumb and twisted enough to do it.

    TC

  15. We were told, in May, that peer-reviewed studies and published papers on research into the fibers were something that Wymore was working on. I feel that would really be difficult, though, considering.

    His department is going through an institutional review process so that human subjects can participate in research. He also said his office is working with the Washington county in which Travis Wilson committed suicide, to obtain samples taken during an autopsy.

    This is December. It’d sure be cool if the dude had reported something about those samples.

    Wymore hopes his work for the Morgellons organization will help prevent future suicides by people suffering from the feeling they’re under attack by bugs.

    “I am very sad this happened. I hope we can try to make it so this never happens again,” he said.

    Wymore said the medical community should take another look at the illness.

    “Don’t simply assume a person is making something up, even if by chance they are a bit anxious, or their behavior is a bit odd,” he said. “They deserve to be treated like humans with dignity and respect and get a microscope and actually look at their skin.”

    Listening, only, to one-sided patients’ versions of things, and relating to them in their own language, does-not-cut-it when a “new disease” is suspected. Hearing from their doctors, but, first-and-foremost, understanding what DOP (and, of course, MSBP), is, sure would have been a darned nice thing for the OSU PhD to have gotten a handle on. Well, I mean, if compassion for these patients, and really wanting to help, was his only motivation. Going along with something this detrimental to people, especially when kids are involved, is such a shameful disgrace. Naturally, he’s not the only one, but he’s sure put himself out there and has a giant role in it.

    http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_051806_news_sweeps_strange_sickness_morgellons.53b2569a.html

  16. Thank you Michael for this new topic. Very good video.

    Tallcotton & Smileykins – Do us all a favour please – drink a cup of glyphosate and roundup.

  17. Southcity. I won’t say anything but one simple, tiny, little question.

    Why did ya fall for “per Daniel” aka Tam-tam???

  18. Southcity,

    He can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that Michael was expressing his disbelief that with so many doctor visits having been made by the Morgies, that their skin was not examined. Surely you don’t think we believe such nonsense.

    A very large percentage of the doctors know exactly what Morgellon is. It’s DOP. If your doctor believes that Morgellons is an emerging disease, causing fibers to sprout from your skin, he’s part of a very small delusional minority. Chances are very good that he’s just after your money. If a Morgie looks hard enough, he’s gonna find one willing to take it.

    Tall Cotton

  19. Wymore should put up or shut up. He claims to be 100% convinced, and has claimed this for many months. He is a scientist, so he must be basing this on observable evidence. So far all he has produced is a few anecdotes and a couple of unidentified inorganic fibers. If the evidence is as plain and convincing as he claims, then what exactly is the problem in producing this evidence?

    Professor Wymore, what would be more productive: performing PCR on bits of lint for several months, or showing your evidence to a few dermatologists and getting the medical community on your side? I suspect that deep inside you really know the score. You are just more comfortable doing your meaningless tests, and being a hero to a sick community.

    What would Barry Marshall do?

    Barry Marshall
    http://www.vianet.net.au/~bjmrshll/

    The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2005
    http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/2005/

    The Tall Poppy Campaign
    http://www.tallpoppies.net.au/cavalcade/marshall.htm

    Nobel for stomach ulcer discorvery
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4304290.stm

    Barry Marshall
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall

  20. Tall Poppy
    ARE YOU A LEGEND
    IN YOUR OWN MIND?
    By MadamSplash
    http://www.splash.net.au/articles/legend.html

    This article is an absolute MUST read, and so eloquently written, and (I believe) VERY relevant.

  21. He can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that Michael was expressing his disbelief that with so many doctor visits having been made by the Morgies, that their skin was not examined. Surely you don’t think we believe such nonsense.

    4 years back I saw the local GP for yet another lump ? cyst of my left breast. The GP popped his big light on his head which also had a magnifying glass. He plucked very fine clear hairs from this area, which he said where very deep.

    At the time the GP was aware that I had an appointment to see a Dermatologist with regards to persistent hyperpigmentation on my face and some areas of surface scarring (not deep) brought about from me picking my spots. The GP said to me “make sure you tell the Dermatologist about the hairs I plucked and please tell him how deep they are”.

    I did EXACTLY what he told me to do. The Derm. dismissed the information I gave him immediately, “Nahh nothing to worry about, I am going to put this sticky plaster on for you, which will help it heal, so I suggest you leave the sticky plaster on until it falls off, it will stay in place for sometime as the sticky plaster is waterproof, but your skin can still breath.” I must mention, my mum said to me prior to this appointment, please tell him about you having Erysipelas. I did just that, he said; “nothing to worry about no connection whatsoever”.

    Upon arriving home from the appointment, I undressed to change my clothes, the sticky plaster fell off immediately. The cyst just kept getting worse.

    All of the above happened on the very same day I had the test procedure on my face (see info. below). I had also just started with spots all over my lower legs, he diagnosed Folliculits at the time, and had his nurse dress all of the spots with the same sticky plaster to encourage healing. I was to leave all of these in place until they fell off. I ended up having to remove the sticky plasters. My entire lower legs became inflamed (resembled maybe an allergic reaction), the spots/lesions opened up to big wholes like a cave, the contents of which was green, I nearly passed out from the pain and how awful they looked. The same local GP swabbed one of the biggest wholes on my leg, it went off to pathology and it came back showing absolutely nothing. The “folliculitis” then travelled up my body and I was covered from head to toe.

    I never went through with the full procedure (as outlined below), too many other symptoms (not my skin) started to really set in. 12 months after that test procedure on my lower left cheek, my face looked absolutely terrible. I assumed then that the folliculits had taken to my face. Then the rolling balls and nodules started under my skin over my entire body. Once my folliculitis got to this stage the local GP “shut down” giving no explanation for the nodules or my suffering. He did however send me for swabs of my nose, under arm, and groin. It returned showing a staph.aureas (?) under my armpit, which he said was a staph that a lot of people carry and a course of antibiotics would fix it. Because my skin was not responding to treatment and worsening, he really shouted at me one day in a consultation, telling me I could not keep having antibiotics.

    *****************************************************
    Collagen Induction Therapy
    Collagen induction therapy, also called skin rolling, uses a roller embedded with dozens of thin needles that is literally rolled over the skin surface. The needles penetrate deeply enough and are dense enough to induce the skin to produce collagen. “This is quite painful to do without general anesthetic, but if you anesthetize a patient properly, the procedure can be nearly as effective as laser resurfacing without the side effects,” says Dr. Goodman. “You need to treat the area with topical anti-oxidants while the holes heal, but I have treated several patients with good results. It seems to be a very safe process.”

  22. Michael – I was wondering if you could have a look at something for me please. I want to bring this information to the blog ie. Rickettsia, as this is what I was diagnosed with. I hope you do not mind. If you think it is not appropriate please tell me so and/or delete. I am just trying to break this entire thing down, and keep is as REAL as possible.

    **********************************************************************

    Rickettsial infections (update April 2006)
    Includes scrub typhus and Queensland tick typhus (spotted fever
    http://www.health.vic.gov.au/ideas/bluebook/rickettsial.htm

    I have the information below in a word document – dated 21st May 2004
    (Apologise, I do not know where to find the link for this older document)

    Typhus (Epidemic louse-borne typhus) Infectious agent
    Rickettsia prowazekii, Rickettsia rickettsii, Rickettsia conorii, Rickettsia australis, Rickettsia tsutsugamushi
    Group A – Diseases require immediate notification to the Department of Human Services by telephone or fax upon initial diagnosis (presumptive or confirmed) with written notification to follow within five days.

    Victorian statutory requirement
    Group A notification.
    Infectious agent
    Rickettsia prowazekii, Rickettsia rickettsii, Rickettsia conorii, Rickettsia australis, Rickettsia tsutsugamushi.
    Clinical features
    It is an acute, severe febrile disease characterised by prolonged high fever, headache and a maculopapular rash.
    Fever may reach 40oC and remain at a high level for about two weeks.
    On the fourth to sixth day, small pink macules appear in the axillae and on the upper trunk. They rapidly cover the body.
    In severe cases, the rash becomes petechial and haemorrhagic.
    Splenomegaly occurs in some cases.
    The disease resolves after about two weeks.
    In untreated cases, the fatality rate increases with age and may reach 40 per cent.
    Public health significance & occurrence
    Occurrence is worldwide.
    It is associated with overcrowding and poor hygiene favouring infestation with body lice.
    Method of diagnosis
    It can be diagnosed by:
    • Serologic tests
    • Weil-Felix reaction with Proteus OX-19 (largely obsolete)
    • Complement fixation test with group-specific or type-specific antigen
    • The IFA test (most commonly used)
    • Toxin neutralisation test
    • Isolation and identification of rickettsiae by inoculation of guinea pigs with infected blood
    Reservoir
    Humans and, in the USA, flying squirrel.
    Mode of transmission
    R. prowazekii is found in faeces of the infected human body louse.
    Infection occurs when a puncture wound on the skin is contaminated by scratching.
    Inhalation of dry infective louse faeces may be responsible for some infections.
    Incubation period
    Usually seven to 14 days; commonly 12 days.
    Period of communicability
    The disease is not directly transmitted from person to person.
    The patient is infective for lice during the febrile illness and probably two to three days after the temperature returns to normal.
    The louse is infective for two to six days after the infected blood meal.
    Susceptibility & resistance
    Susceptibility is general.
    There is long-lasting Immunity following infection.
    Control of case
    Isolation is not required after proper delousing of patient, clothing, living quarters and household contacts.
    There should be concurrent disinfection of clothing and bedding of patient and contacts, and laundering of clothing and bedding of patient and contacts.
    Treatment
    It should be treated with tetracyclines or chloramphenicol orally until the patient becomes afebrile.
    Doxycycline in a single dose is also curative.
    Seriously ill patients should be treated without waiting for laboratory confirmation.
    Control of contacts
    • Investigate all contacts
    • Look for a source of infection
    • Keep all immediate contacts under surveillance for two weeks
    Preventive Measures
    • Apply an effective residual insecticide powder (Carbaryl) to population at risk
    • Improve living conditions and standard of hygiene
    • Immunise susceptible persons or groups of persons entering typhus area (two doses of 1 ml for children over 10 years of age and adults, with intervals of four weeks between doses)
    Epidemic measures
    Typhus can be rapidly controlled by applying an insecticide with residual effect to all contacts.
    In case of a widespread infection, systematic application of residual insecticide to all persons in the community is indicated.
    International measures
    Government should notify WHO and neighbouring countries of the occurrence of disease in an area previously free of the disease.
    Louse-borne typhus is a disease under surveillance by WHO that should be reported to the Communicable Diseases Network

    DIMETHYL PHTHALATE
    http://www.lakes-environmental.com/toxic/DIMETHYL_PHTHALATE.HTML

    Carbaryl
    http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/carbaryl.html

    ***********************************************************************************

    Michael – You and I have established (what I feel) a great relationship over these past few months, and you know all about my trials and tribulations, and your support for me alone has been so very much appreciated.

    The documents state “severe cases (Rickettsia) must be treated by an Infectious Disease Specialist”.

    I went to one 2 years ago, he got rid of me, sent me to Dermatology/Psychiatry (with a 3 day holiday in the psych.ward) I did not respond to two courses of Doxycycline. This particular Infectious Diseases Specialist said I ONLY had the R.Australis strain with a titre of 512. But on the list I also had positive titre 512 for; R.honei, R.conorrii,R.sibirica,R.rickettsii,R.akari.

    My goodness me I was exhibiting severe neurological dysfunction back then when I saw him. They investigated me for 6 months, during that time I had to shave my head due to intracranial pressure (I was kinda aware that I had had a stroke). Call me silly, but I’d say that my symptoms back then would have be classified as a “severe rickettsial infection”.

    Michael I think you know what I am trying to say here; Rickettsia – Morgellons – my current state of health – What, Where, When, Why, How? and my current treating physician seems to be rather “sarcastic with me” and asks me why I think my breasts are terribly sore!!! Oh please! What on earth does it take hey?

    **********************************************************************************

    Yes I have been very sick and very delusional – Michael I smell a rat.

  23. Tallcotton states: “He can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that Michael was expressing his disbelief that with so many doctor visits having been made by the Morgies, that their skin was not examined. Surely you don’t think we believe such nonsense.”

    My answer is. Michael seems like a reasonably intelligent person so perhaps he is able to understand what I am talking about.

    On the other hand, tallcotton and smileykins, I believe you both to be fairly ignorant and certainly close minded and arrogant. And seeing as how you are both “formerly infected” and your repeated arguements as to the reality of this infectious agent reeks of denial, and because of your admitted flip flopping in belief, only gives your words a very low level of credibility. I also believe all three of you are acting in colusion for some unstated reason.

    I might also add the the level of effort put forth by the three of you is truly having a minimal effect on the issue, but is providing some entertainment value as to just how far various industries will stoop to protect themselves. By all means, please, keep doing as you have been doing.

    for the avid reader, here is a tiny bit of the types of experimentation and research going on today. The sheer number of these types of examples, added with the human error element, is chilling in regards to the probability of this particular GMO’s release being one of the first of several others to come. http://www.whlib.ac.cn/dzzy/sjk/proquest/4.xls

    South

  24. Michael – I think you may enjoy a read of this document.

    REMOVE vitamins w/Codex Aliemtarius, KILL microbiologists, STEP UP mycoplasma/chemtrails
    author: Bush regime bastards watch
    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/01/309675.shtml

  25. South,

    We havn’t flip-flopped, unless you call being sick, then getting well, flip-flopping. You, on the other hand, have proven, beyond doubt, that you are a liar. We can easily prove it, too. Credibility is something that is totally foreign to you.

    What you think of Smileykins’ or my level of intelligence is immaterial. You’ve proven your lack of intelligence with your belief that Morgellons is a disease. You aren’t any competition for either one of us. That’s obvious. Your belief that any of the three of us are employed, by anyone, is another example of your delusions.

    You once said that you know where we work. That’s just example of your lying nature. Do I need to give everyone other examples. I can, if I need to. In my opinion, besides having DOP, you’re a schizophrenic. I say that because you also appear to be suffering from paranoid delusions.

    We aren’t trying to convince you of anything. We’re here so that people who are undecided about Morgellons have an opportunity to hear the truth. That’s something they aren’t going to get from a Morgellons believer. If you plan on overcoming your physical problems, I suggest you get help for your mental problems.

    Tall Cotton

  26. Good point South. Inquire about education in the matter also.

  27. Credentials in general.

  28. South, you never answer a question, no matter how simple it is. Yes, I agree that I’m arrogant, as well as ignorant, sometimes. I suppose I show it in excess, counteracting lies that there is a new disease called “morgellons”, when people like you bring your illness onto a blog that debunks it. Be thankful I know my boundaries and don’t stick my nose into morgie discussions. Not like anyone would allow it, though. “Close minded” is the epitome of what you and other believers are. When minds are so far removed from reality, full of fear, and so hardened by pride and prejudice, that is not, at all, the same as having an open mind. Things need to be shrunk down to a manageable size.

    Tall Cotton and I are not both “formerly infected”. Recovering from our experiences of DOP several years ago, which almost cost both of us our lives, South, is not what you called an “admitted flip flopping in belief”, that we’d had. In the fucked up state you’re obviously deriving pleasure from being in, I expect nothing less than for you to consider us as having a “very low level of credibility”. Everyone can see you’re hellbent on spreading panic to other vulnerable people, thinking that you’re doing the right thing.

    Hypothetically, if I were a paranoid schizophrenic, and, upon viewing your web site, saw that you were like me, and I contacted you and played into your all of your fears, telling you everything that you wanted to hear, to help you validate all your suspicions, you wouldn’t think a thing about my credibility or demand any proof of my credentials. You’d think I really knew what I was talking about and that I was whomever I told you I was, just due to the fact I said what you wanted to hear. Other morgie people would praise my out-of-the-box thinking skills, too.

    Why are people so ashamed of delusional parasitosis, anyway, and so suspicious, and ill-mannered towards others?
    Is “morgellons disease” just more fun to have, so you won’t treat it?

  29. THE OVERLOOKED RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN INFECTIOUS DISEASES AND MENTAL
    SYMPTOMS

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james16.htm

  30. “A valuable clue that a mental problem may be infectious rather than psychiatric is sudden onset in a previously stable individual. “

  31. Dr. Paul Fink, past president of the American Psychiatric
    Association, has acknowledged that every psychiatric disorder in the
    Psychiatric Diagnostic Symptoms Manual IV (DSM-!V) can be caused by
    Lyme Disease. This proves that every known psychiatric disorder can
    be caused by an infection (Borrelia burgdorfi Bb spirochete). So far
    all cases of Alzheimer’s disease tested for the Borrelia burgdorfi Bb
    spirochete, which causes Lyme Disease, have tested positive.

  32. So Starlink, is this infectious disease connectiong being covered up by someone? Or are scientists just not noticing it?

  33. NORMAN!!! That is the point, precisely. People should not be offended, just because they need to treat their minds, first, so they can heal their bodies, afterwards. EXCELLENT!!!

  34. I don’t know about what I read in the link you provided, though, Norman. But, as I have been saying, all along, I think it is disgraceful that Stricker & Savely are supposedly EXPERTS on Lyme Disease, and TOTALLY IGNORANT of its associated neuropsychiatric effects, as well as the cutaneous ones. A few other professionals associated with “morgellons disease” are too. So, why is that?

  35. Hello Starlink,

    Those are excellent posts you made. How have things been going lately? You’re right about infectious diseases causing sometimes causing mental problems, and lyme disease is certainly one of them. There’s also some others that cause problems of a similar nature.

    We know about lyme disease, and we know about many other diseases. But we have a whole lot to learn. These diseases have diagnostic criteria, and no matter whether they are causing physical problems, psychological problems, or both, diseases are diseases. They need to be diagnosed and, if possible, cured.

    The same is true for the illnesses of the members of the Morgellons community, and they obviosly have a variety of them. They have a problem and they need to find out what it is, and get fixed.

    Morgellons hasn’t been proven to be a disease, and it has no diagnostic criteria. Most of the Morgies have already been diagnosed with other things. Some of those diagnoses, however, may be wrong. It’s sure not a perfect world.

    Not every medication works for every individual, and sometimes there is no cure, just treatments to alleviate or lessen the symptoms. I hope the Morgies give their doctors adequate time to come up with the proper diagnoses and find a medication that helps them.

    There’s a few doctors that believe that Morgellons is a disease, or so they claim. Some of them are obviously scam artists, exploiting members of the Morgellons community. None of them, however, have produced the evidence to prove their claims.

    Morgies are putting all their chips on their bet that Morgellons is a disease. A lot of them have spent their life’s savings trying to prove it, and by trying to self-medicate their conditions. Most of them go from doctor to doctor, looking for one that will confirm their beliefs. Some have forsaken their diagnoses, and their needed medication, and are literally betting their lives on it.

    Something needs to be done to help the Morgies. As you know, the CDC is investigating the matter. It’ll be a while before they make their report. I trust the CDC. I hope that everyone follows their recommendations, whatever they are. I have my beliefs, but that’s not here nor there. It’s up to the individual to follow their own convictions.

    If people do have mental illness, they shouldn’t be ashamed of getting treatment. The brain is a very important organ, but it is an organ, and as such, it is succeptable to developing problems. People need to seek the help that they need, and do what they can to improve their lives.

    Good Luck to you.

    Tall Cotton

  36. Starlink,

    I just now got around to checking out that link you provided. I disagree that a lot of tests are needed to determine that a patient has DOP. Blood tests reveal a lot more than most Morgies realize, and an experienced doctor can glean a whole lot from a patien’s behavior. If the patient sticks around long enough, the doctor can perform other tests if they are warranted.

    TC

  37. Also… I don’t believe that the Morgie’s mental problems were as quickly onset as they tend to believe. Some of them don’t even realize they have mental problems. After getting to know some of the Morgies better, it’s easy to see that they’ve had mental problems all of their lives.

    TC

  38. Norman, unless you were wanting to illustrate the fact that the mental aspects of morgie people are what causes them to think that they have parasites, I don’t actually see how the link you’d provided is relevant. I have always considered that, supposedly, as reported, there “seems to be” a prevalence of what everyone is calling “morgellons disease”, in late stage, or chronic, lyme disease. To be perfectly honest, I don’t have any of my own opinions on lyme disease. However, I have read enough seemingly legitimate information on it, to see that there are neuropsychiatric effects associated with it, as well as various cutaneous ones. Therefore, it is understandable that such patients could feasibly have been diagnosed with delusional parasitosis, if they are patients of chronic lyme, and unaware of what to expect from their condition.

    But, the topic of discussion is “morgellons disease”. I firmly believe in the wisdom of conventional medicine, just the same as most of the rest of the world. CBCs can easily detect infections, and doctors know what other tests to order, too, when something is suspect. Patients have a duty to themselves to express what they need a doctor to know about their symptoms. We have to consider the record with this group of patients, and the way this “morgellons disease” phenomenon came to light.

    That link on parasites is targeted for a specific audience….

    My suggestion to readers is to consider exploring a consultation with the Research Institute for Infectious Mental Illness before accepting a psychiatric diagnosis that is likely to lead to a lengthy and minimally effective therapy.

    The Research Institute for Infectious Mental Illness is the first comprehensive institute of its kind in the U.S. They provide testing, clinical and consulting services to clients all over the world and help in educating professional persons.

    If people have mental conditions that they are not treating, and nobody is in their lives to advocate for them, their mental conditions can render them incapable of discernment, making them susceptible to be easily swayed into the wrong directions. That is how unconventional medicine stands to benefit from such patients. If they are not endangering themselves, or others, and they’re completely comfortable with their beliefs, they don’t interfere with their enjoyment of life, and they have the money to spend on unconventional treatments, it’s fine with me if someone goes for it. Do many morgies fit that picture?

  39. Tallcotton Says:
    December 10th, 2006 at 12:33 pm
    Also… I don’t believe that the Morgie’s mental problems were as quickly onset as they tend to believe. Some of them don’t even realize they have mental problems. After getting to know some of the Morgies better, it’s easy to see that they’ve had mental problems all of their lives.

    TC

    I agree.

    Starlink – great link you provided.

    Unfortunately, I seem to be in the “too hard basket”. I would take the Antipsychotic if I could. I can recall when I used to take my antipsychotic dose at night time, and then get into bed, I could feel a “seizure” coming on. Now to me I find it really strange that a person can have a resting, lying down seizure. Maybe this is common, and doctors have heard of this, but I am not a doctor, so I wouldn’t know.

    Does anyone know where I could go to get some of those tests done?
    Would my GP know? I am scared to ask her? I think, she thinks I’m a NUT!

  40. Maybe I did fall out of Macadamia tree!!!
    I need a laugh today Michael -
    I feel like I have another head cold,
    see I told you, I have had a bad cold all along, that’s all!!

  41. What is the CURE for the COMMON COLD???

  42. Sorry about that, I meant to also say: What CAUSES the COMMON COLD??

    Feeling rather Nutszo today!!

    That cosmic wave came a drifting through this house last night, whoa whoa, two people under the same roof having the same thoughts ie. “same songs in their head”.

    I need Al to come get me on those two “milk crates” he was talking about. He said we could ride the cosmic wave together on milk crates!!

    And now Tony is getting the “sensations of dying” – OMG!!

    How many more dinner plates are going to be smashed in this house?!! I didn’t smash the plate on purpose last night, it was an accident, I went into seizure whilst eating my tea. Tony was “extremely” intoxicated, and I end up flipping my lid!! How can that happen and why the heck does it happen?

    I said to him, pull yourself together mate, I know it is tough, but I will not have you being a complete “ninny” at the expense of my mental health.

    You know I said to him a while ago, it is probably people like yourself that needs to be on an antidepressants or something, but how the hell would you or a doctor know coz you drink alcohol all the time.

    How many woman in this world have, or are close to going insane, when maybe it is the person they are with that needs a good mental health examination.

    I dunno, just trying to way this whole stupid situation up.

    Oh yeah, the “jumbo jet” noise is really bad in my ears. Could be the antibiotic I am on doing this hey??

    Maybe ET’s spaceship approaching!! hehehe

  43. Michael, I woke up with this song in my head. Could it get any crazier for me??

    http://www.noolmusic.com/blogs/Youtube_Comedy_Video_-_Benny_Hill_-_Ernie_the_fastest_milkman_in_the_west.shtml

  44. Let me know if anyone needs “translation” after listening to that link.

    I am fluctant in the “Northern English” language!!

    Going to recharge my batteries this afternoon, and cuddle my folks new puppy!!!

  45. Scurvy
    http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/common/standard/transform.jsp?requestURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/scurvy.jsp

    Me again, sorry, I am obsessive compulsive today, and I can’t spell!

    My shrink was rather concerned some time back that Tony could develop Scurvy.

    Michael – Do you know if Scurvy is contagious?

    I just get really concerned for myself with being on a steroid still. When Tony lives on a bottle of Vodka a day, of course, he gets extremely run down, even though I try to pump him with good food. He started with a “husky” voice a couple of days ago. This has happened in the past, and then, I end up feeling like I have a cold. The inside of my mouth also feels extremely ulcerated. No wonder really, I keep biting the insides of my cheek and my tongue.

    This has been a pattern also in the past for me when my speech deteriorates, I bite the inside of mouth whilst talking, BUT if I rage and yell, OMG!! it is worse! Reminds me of how my dad used to be when I was younger, he could be very vocal at times, nearly lifting the roof off the house!!

    My Dad is the greatest!! I know I have his strength, and for that I am so grateful.

    I am gonna raid my mums lemon tree today, best source of Vitamin C. (well I think so anyway).

    Smileykins – I read somewhere on this blog the other day that you had written about me thinking that me and my cat Sally were on remote control. Well guess what? I haven’t asked Sally today how her brain is feeling, but ME, oh LORD!!

    Michael – Can you get on the phone to NASA,DARPA,HARP – please, and ask them if they could turn my switch off!!

    My Head Hurts…

  46. Michael – Is it you?? You naughty computer programmer!!

    I just wanna break into song all the time!! Is that normal???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew

    I need a RUBBER ROOM!!!!!!!!!!

  47. I’d covered that before.

    http://morgellonswatch.com/2006/08/22/morgellons-cure/

    Gillian, nobody is doing anything to you. At worse you’ve had some inept treatment. You are just sick, it’s your mind and your body doing it, not anyone else. You are not going to find any reasons here. You are responsible for your own future.

    Have you actually done CBT? What happened?

  48. MG,

    Sorry about reposting that same link. I forgot that you had already posted it.

    TC

  49. Michael – Good to know no one is doing anything to me.

    I gotta tell you though, the human brain is pretty damn amazing!

    I was explaining to my parents this afternoon that my mind does really weird things, I said its either the Aliens on there way to earth!!lol or I am going through the dying stage. I do want to die, my mind is just playing tricks with me, that’s all.

    I am doing my CBT Michael, that is why I come here everday!! You did say you were happy for me to post anytime I like, and I am very grateful for that. I type fasting than I write, and I need validation, which has been the way I have been my entire life, dunno why.

    I also took your advice on the negative and positive thoughts. As soon as I get a negative I try really hard to replace it with a positive.

    I am listening to my parents and I am listening even harder to my dad. The three of us had a really good “deep and meaningful” chat this afternoon. Dad has asked me to try really really hard to not argue or rage with Tony. He said you CAN NOT reason with an Alcohol while they are drunk. I know that, I have read about it. I explained to Dad that when my pain threshold becomes overloaded, and the journey I have had for some years, I lose the plot totally. He understood 100% because I am his daughter. Anyway I promised him I would try. BUT of course I came home from my parents place and walked into this house and it was like being hit by a cloud of depression lingering in the air.

    Tony was in bed watching TV and it was only 7pm!! I made him get up, and made tea for him. And once again he got yet another lecture from me. I beg him, and plead, and yell and scream to just remember he is NOT the only person in this world with health problems. I said, “do you think I would have done what I am doing know for 2 solid years IF I did not think we would ALL in some way benefit.” I keep telling him WE do not have the same disease or illness. I said that he is suffering from Liver Disease due to alcohol abuse and as my dad said today, alcoholic poisoning because he is never sobber these days, which is true actually. My dad said he needs to be pulled over by the cops and breath tested. He said the cops would have to lock him away because a person like Tony is a dead set closet drinker and drinks to totally wipe himself out and nothing more.

    I know my dad gets upset with Tony, but understandably. My dad views alcoholism as extremely sad, he really does like Tony, he just wished things were different. My dad can’t understand why he himself gets pulled over all the time for a breath test by the cops and he doesn’t even drink!! Dad and I both understand we are living in a mad upside down world, but what can you do, but try to get on with life.

    I still feel bad for “dumping” on Tony, but I am just trying to make him see, he needs to respect and love himself, because he really is such a wonderful man.

  50. Michael – I asked a question of you earlier, which was; Is Scurvy contagious? HA!! I laughed at myself this afternoon when I reaslied what I had said. Of course scurvy is not contagious. BUT I reckon if you live with someone who has scurvy that would then put me at risk of other viruses and infections. As my mum put it today “you could end up with all sorts of terrible infections, and parasites, given how sick I am and not to mention being on a steroid.”

    My parents understand this world, they always have, they have been through tough times themselves, my god we were so poor when I was a baby, we had nothing. These days my parents home is like Buckingham Palace!! – filled with so much Love. And as for Daisy the little puppy, she is totally in love with me, and vice versa. She went absolutely crazy when I arrived at there place, and we have only had her a week. Daisy is what I call the “fountain of youth” I felt so good to have her curled up my lap, I felt energised from her. I gave myself Reiki whilst I had my hand on her body, don’t know if it really does work, but I have practiced Reiki on myself for years, and it felt good, so why not hey?

    Michael do you know what is really hurting my parents at the moment more than anytbing??

    They said all they have seen over these past 5 years of me living with Tony is him telling everyone else ie. our friends, MY friends, and even his doctor/S all about me and my illness, namely mental illness. Has never told them about Rickettsiosis Spotted Fever Group, even told the neighbours that it was anxiety attack I had when I went away in an Ambulance 3 years ago. I feel ashamed to even look at the neighbours.

    Tony tells me last night in his demented state, that he himself is just like “Saint Anthony” – who was actually the saint of “hopeless cases” .

    Over tea this evening I was angry as I said before, and I told him I was the “Virgin Mary” (joking of course!)- “so pull ya finger out Saint Anthony and stop complaining”. I made him book into the doctors for an appointment. His voice sounds terrible, he is coughing, and his ankles and feet, OMG!!

    I need HIS doctor to tell him to pull his finger out. I refuse to go to Tony’s doctor to tell him how sick I am, then I WILL look like a maniac. I am not responsible for getting Tony off the alcohol. Tony is responsible for himself, just like I am for myself. But I am sick of him hitching a ride to heaven on my back. If I am in fact dying I would much prefer to surround myself with love and my family. Tony is losing the plot and putting a lot of people in danger, namely hiself. He went and abused the “quack” the other day, shouting at him for nearly killing me, of course the quack denied what he had said, and then accused Tony of being drunk. Tony said the doc looked like the devil screaming across the desk at him, anyway they called the police and Tony ran out. Than he goes over to my dads place, swearing and carrying on stinking of alcohol and wants my dad to debrief him. I couldn’t listen, I just ran around the back garden with the pup (and then fell in heap with exhaustion!!!) Poor dad he ended up comparing his cancer to Tony’s drinking, whatelse could he do but to try and calm to man down, dad did this for ME.

    Anyway dad said to me today if you can stick it out with Tony until such time you will come out the hero love. I thought that was nice. He knows I can not turn my back on Tony, and he doesn’t want me to either. Alcoholism is so complex and isn’t easy to give away, as I have witnessed, and I am not very impressed with the “so called” support that is out in the community for people like Tony. I know they have rehab places and so on. He has done this, but his brothers and sisters made him, it was when I became really ill. Tony found it hard because he was in the rehab place with people very different to himself, drug addicts (legal & illegal drugs), as well as other alcoholics.

    I do understand Tony doesn’t want to go back in a rehab. place. I had a similar experience in the Psych. ward. Anymore than 3 days in that place and I was sure to be given a frontal lobotomy. As Tony used to say; “I’d rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me.”!!! He is a funny guy.

    I was treated like a piece of dirt in the psych, ward, so were my parents. They had to bring me in a bag of clothes (which Tony had packed for me, and sent me dirty clothes and undies!!!) and they were only allowed 5 minutes with me. The male nurse on duty took my bag, which was searched and all my vitamins that Tony had packed were removed. On discharge I never got them all back, and was given someone elses bottle of Vitamin C tablets, I threw them in the bin when I got home. See my disability pension keeps doing full circle.

    Even my purse was taken from me. I had to ask for some money from my OWN purse so I could phone my family on the public phone.

    I was given two times the amount of antipsychotic than I was used to whilst in there, which totally knocked me out. I think my shrink may have spoke with that hospital,can’t be sure though. In my heart, I think, maybe that is why I got out sooner. He would have said something, but in a very clever way, he ain’t stupid, but he is very smart. Tony didn’t even visit me, he told me that he had to do time in rehab. so it was just the same. NO it wasn’t.

    There were NO boundaries between the psych. nurses and the patients. For example I was woken at 11.30am by a male nurse standing at the side of my bed saying to me my mum had rang, and my shrink had rang. It was a real shock to wake up to a young guy (rather good looking too) and I looked like the hunch back of notre, no hair on my head and fat and swollen!! OMG!! Did I cry a river in there. The nurses let me sit on my own in the lounge for 2 hours crying, and I didn’t even know where the toilet was or where I was going to sleep that night.

    The other patients in there were so so sick, but ever so nice, the ones that spoke anyway. Some of the patients reminded ME of that film “Awakenings”, broke my heart. I remeber this guy, he was so good looking and could he play the guitar wow! He was crying one night, his female psych. nurse wouldn’t listen to him play! I offered to listen, but he was too upset. He told me he really liked me, and was so grateful that I listened and showed that I cared for him. I told him he was worth caring for. He said to me, “you shouldn’t be in this place Gillian.” I said, neither should YOU.

    I couldn’t get over the other men also, with terrible scars on their neck, from I guess, too much ECT treatment. My god!! it saddens me to the bone to even think about it now.

    I was sent paper work from that hopsital after my discharge; a questionnaire on the quality of my stay at the hospital. I never finished completing the forms,I became too sick. Doesn’t matter now anyway, the world can read about it on Michael blog site.

    The Psychiatric Hospitals and the Psych.nurses need a major kick up the bum. Staff members getting in line for a meal, BEFORE the patient is NOT ON in my book. Some patients missed out on food, coz some stuck up 20 plus year old male nurse was a pig and went back for seconds!!

    Get this for bad hygiene; This guy (worked for the hospital) who I witnessed emptying the rubbish bins in the morning was then seen cooking toast for the patients with NO gloves on. I worded up the girl I shared a room with. She had seen him also, but she saw more than I did, apparently he did NOT wash his hands after doing the rubbish. She told him off and to put gloves on!!! I was so proud of her, we had a good laugh about it later. Don’t you worry, I made my psych patient stay a memory I hoped, one day, was going to be put to good use, and that was to tell someone, that those poor patients were so very ABUSED!

    Hehehe!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6-5yVBhIk&mode=related&search=

  51. I do want to die, my mind is just playing tricks with me, that’s all.

    OMG!! I am so glad I went back and re read some posts, ya know me and my thick skull!!

    I do “NOT” want to die is what I meant to say. It has to be those darn Spirochete in my head twisting everything around and upside down. They even do it to me when I try to spell. I have had this problem my entire life, I get silly little words mixed up, my dad has done the same his entire life, does that mean he has Lyme also??

    I dunno, he looks and is far too fit and healthy, but who knows?? I know he has cancer.

    Weird?? – “Medicine & Science” I tell ya – what a bloody mess.

  52. What causes Anxiety???

    Good question.

    In the past, some have referred to Anxiety as: “A pain you can’t define caused by a fear you can’t explain”.

    I am certainly not anxiety at the moment, but I sure got sugar cravings, gotta go my fingers are sticky, I’m eating a jam donut, I can’t help myself!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AygiPO2Y27s

  53. Someone introducing himself as a doctor has been visiting Lymebusters Morgellons Forum. He uses the name, gobucky. Some of the Morgies havn’t exactly given him a warm welcome, but so far his posts havn’t been deleted.

    Morgies tend to share a common problem. They mistakingly think they know more than the doctors, and are supposed to enlighten them, and bring their “so-called” knowledge to the world. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

    They have misunderstood their experiences and observation, even mixed reality with illusion. But they won’t/can’t listen to reason. They’re hopelessly bound by their delusions.

    Tall Cotton

  54. Michael – you keep saying over and over that derms are looking at patients’ skin. You saw the derm in the clip. Did he take out a magnifying glass or a scope and really examine the skin? No, he looked at it from two feet away, just like Wymore said.

  55. It’s really sad when Patti, or one of the other memebers of Lymebuster’s Administration, reinforces the delusions of their members. They’re as sick, if not sicker, than the rest, and although they’d never admit to it, they are a cult.

    But others look up to the leaders, and although their beliefs about Morgellons are flawed and twisted, the followers respect and praise them. The blind lead the blind, and they’re all in a pit of darkness.

    TC

  56. Pez – watch the clip again. Judging by their interaction it looks like a follow-up visit, so the dermatologist is just checking the extent of the skin problem, probably after treatment. But regardless, patient examinination generally last at least a few minutes, so you can’t judge anything froma few seconds.

    The problem here is that you seem to be jumping to judgements of dermatologists’ treatments of patients based on a few out of context seconds of a doctor-patient interaction with someone who did not even seem to be claiming to have Morgellons.

    Is this how you generally form opinions of things? Think about that for a while. Does a little thing turn into a big thing in your mind? Do you base things on flimsy evidence? Do you actually reject “evidence based medicine”?

  57. Dear Michael,

    I don’t know whether I was born stupid, or maybe I am still working on it.

    I need to see my doctor asap. Tony just phoned for me and she said “what’s wrong now!!!”, he told her “I” felt as though I was getting a virus. She can’t see me until Thursday 1.45pm.

    I had an awful nights sleep, so did Tony, he was apparently awake all night. He said I sawed(snorring)down the entire “Amazon Jungle”. All I remember is waking up coughing and wetting the sheet. I got up and put towels beneath me my butt. But this went on all night.

    The only way I am able to calm my thoughts down is to tell myself – “If I have to get to the stage of collapse and an Ambulance has to be called, so be it”. As painful as it is for me – whatever is meant to be will be.

    Gillian

  58. P.S. Tony just remembered something the doctor told him.

    My urine sample came back from pathology. It grew nothing.

    This can not possibly be all in my head???

  59. TC, if Morgellons ceases to “exist”, then Lymebusters becomes irrelevant.

    It doesn’t surprise me that LB admin reinforces the Morgellons myth. No one wants to become irrelevant, and they’ve invested a lot of time into becoming relevant in the first place.

  60. Hello Pez,

    I’ve read some of your comments on lymebusters forum, assuming you are the same Pez. Wow, those people over there are getting farther and farther from anything resembling the truth.

    Morgellons fibers have been determined, over and over, to be made of cellulose, like that in cotton. And it’s obvious, to me, from some of their micrographs, that they are nothing more than clothing fibers.

    But, some nut comes along and says that they don’t burn at 1400 degress, so they think that the fibers are glass. Well, that persons fibers may have been glass, from fiberglass contamination, but the next person that comes along may have cellulose rods, like those in rayon.

    Another nut comes along and says its high density polyethylene, like that in prosthetic joints. Oh, she had a prothetic joint replaced. And it doesn’t matter that some of the material has migrated. There’s a hidden agenda, and this material is like what was used to encapsulate, was it macrophages? Well, the company that performs the spraying, says, “oh, baloney”. But the Morgies run with it.

    Morgies aren’t gonna get well until they start ignoring their stupid fibers. They aren’t related to any disease process. I know. Wymore says differently. The problem is, Wymore doesn’t have a clue.

    Some of the Morgies agree with Mickelson, but he doesn’t even agree with Jan, although they seem to be working together. She thinks the problem is self-replicating nano-fibers. Well, or does she believe it’s HDPE. It’s hard to tell, one minute to the next, what she believes. And cliff thinks it GM cotton.

    These people don’t seem to have a brain between them, and none of them seem to agree. The truth is, it’s all a bunch on nonsense. They all seem to be quite ill, mentally. If I was a doctor I wouldn’t take any morgie patients. They won’t listen, and the won’t follow instruction.

    Tall Cotton

  61. I think doctors have legitimate reasons to feel concerned if any morgie patients really sense apprehension in the air from them. Given the circumstances, they know the chance of a volatile situation erupting, but I’ve read many morgies misinterpreting it as doctors being fearful of catching something from them. Convinced that they’re smarter than all the doctors they’ve seen is a waste of time and effort, for everyone. But when they do give up going to them, look at what happens. This situation is just so astoundingly sad.

  62. I’m an Internal Medicine physician with a bread and butter outpatient primary care practice.

    Its clear Morgies are suffering mightily, and its clear that this condition is not something they’ve wished upon themselves. I DO think this is an organic disease, but (IMO) its not dermatologic. I predict that Morgellon’s and allied conditions will ultimately be shown to be caused by a specific abnormality in the central nervous system that causes a highly compartmentalized inability to correctly interpret normal sensory input. The word normally used to describe this is “delusion” but over time this word has become so loaded with negative connotation, its use results in an immediate turn-off among sufferers.

    I believe that a doctor with the time and energy to promote the above theory in a compassionate, non-judgmental fashion could really provide these folks a great service — and save them from spending their life savings on quack remedies. Unfortunately, I don’t think I am that person.

  63. Gobucky,

    Welcome to the blog. I mentioned your visit to lymebusters in comment #52, above, and noticed since that time, that you had apparently bid the Morgies farewell. If that’s the case, I certainly don’t blame you. They’re a very hard group to get anywhere with.

    The Morgies seem seem to be suffering from a variety of physical disorders, and many of their reported diagnoses confirm this. And, in addition to that, they seem to be misiterpreting their experiences. Their delusions, and the pain, itching, and fear of the unknown seems to have also caused other associated mental disorders, anxiety, depression, OCD, BDD, and the like.

    We’ve been trying to help the Morgellons sufferers, but we havn’t been able to convince them that Morgellons is a new disease, or anything other than DOP. On their forums they reinforce each others delusions and strengthen each others fears. They also, quite literally, leave a path of destruction behind them. They seem so impossible to deal with, that we’ve mostly hoped to get through to some of the people who havn’t yet decided what they believe about Morgellons.

    Tall Cotton

  64. I meant to say that we havn’t been able to convince them that Morgellons is not a new disease.

    TC

  65. Gobucky,

    If abnormalities in the CNS is causing DOP, is there any other medication for treating these tactile hallucinations besides antipsychotics such as risperadone, olanzapine, or pimozide?

    Tall Cotton

  66. In my opinion, they redefine the word, “suffering”.

  67. South,

    Not that I expect you to reply, but your PSYCHOLOGIST did a complete physical exam? That’s a bogus exam. Your psychologist has no training in giving a physical exam, more, it’s negligent for them to even give you the impression that it’s a valid exam. A psychologist and the lady at the cosmetics counter in the mall could do an equally fine job– but who’d be less expensive?

    Starlink, your request for credentials is excellent! We’ve asked Southcity several times about his/her credentials. We’re all waiting with great anticipation to be blown away by both of your extraordinary credentials.

  68. Yes, and you know, perhaps since South & Norman have always been so evasive, and avoid answering even the simplest of questions, they’re really both top secret agents, hehe.

  69. To a certain degree, I respectfully disagree with this, TC:

    Their delusions, and the pain, itching, and fear of the unknown seems to have also caused other associated mental disorders, anxiety, depression, OCD, BDD, and the like.

    “…Seems to have also caused the other associated mental disorders”, but, because this is a very complicated situation, with many intricate facets involved, we can’t tell whether the mental disorders, coexisted, and were untreated, or under-treated, in this group of patients, but, to me, it seems that that they were already there, to begin with.

    But they have it ALL COVERED, as ” have been or will be diagnosed”.

    As the MRF states, “Behavioral effects are common in many patients. Many have been or will be diagnosed as Attention Deficit Disorder, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, or Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. A minority do not show this pattern. ” Also, they state, “Although skin symptoms are of particular interest to this foundation and are extremely troubling to patients, they are also a vital clue that something is terribly wrong with the body. More significant than skin symptoms, in terms of the diminished quality of life of the individual with this illness, are symptoms unrelated to skin, to include Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), Fibromyalgia (ME), joint pain, and significant problems with concentration and memory.” It also reads, “Some patients have been diagnosed with Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Multiple Sclerosis, and other well-known and recognized disorders.” And last, but not least, “Nearly all (95% of) adults with the symptoms of this skin disease have received a diagnosis of DOP or Delusions of Parasitosis.”

    Considering that those symptoms and diagnosed disorders were taken from the MRF site’s registration process, which, as thinking people know, does not mean that everyone who filled out the questionnaire is included in the sum total of what continues being publicized as the amount of “victims” with this malady, that is also not an accurate description of symptoms to attribute to this “new disease”. The mental effects are profound, though, and obvious to all of us.

  70. Smileykins,

    I should have said, “added to”, instead of “causing”. They also exibit other mental disorders besides those I listed.

    Tall Cotton

  71. There are many underlying problems that can cause Secondary Organic DOP, as we both know from our past experiences. But, even though we saw things as far out as many morgies do, we didn’t have the seemingly overpowering need for sympathy, or of needing anyone to believe us, nor did we carry on so hatefully with people we love, as well as with strangers. There are a lot of certain things that set many of these patients apart, and they just can’t see it for themselves. I don’t think a lot of them even know that people, even those who love each other, can disagree and it isn’t anything bad. Disagreements are opportunities for open communication, to lead to the resolution of problems, not a chance to argue who is right or who is wrong. There is a very, bad communication problem that appears to exist within this set of patients, and that tends to also make me believe that there is a lot more going on, in either them having the Primary Psychotic, or the Secondary Functional forms of DOP. It’s a mess to try sorting out, and only they, or someone with privy to their medical records, knows, one way or another.

  72. Sorry, I take that back. Nobody can get properly treated without forming a relationship with one primary physician. By bouncing to so many doctors, and as confused as some patients are, perhaps nobody knows what they have going on mentally, or physically.

  73. One thing seems to be certain. We have seen several other mental disorders in the group. Most of the users of biology online, fiber disease topic, are schizophrenics. They have some of the most insane paranoid delusions. The folks at lymebuster are a mixed bag, but they’re all delusional. It they don’t address their mental disorders, and continue to reject their various diagnoses, they aren’t apt to get well.

    TC

  74. Sarah B. Dunn,

    I apologize for criticizing you that time that you pointed some things out to Gillian (Sarah Connor). At the time, I was trying to go easy on her, and change her way of thinking. Obviously it didn’t do any good. She flips this way and that, like a pendulum. I have since then given up on trying to get any lasting results with her. Thank you for joining the discussions.

    Jeeezlouise,

    Welcome back. We missed you. Have you been out grave robbing? Just kidding! I know that you restore grave markers, and I consider it a very thoughtful and important service. If you find any gold teeth, or anything, jewelry, etc., count me in as a partner. Just kidding again.

    Tall Cotton

  75. Tallcotton: I apologize for criticizing you that time that you pointed some things out to Gillian (Sarah Connor). At the time, I was trying to go easy on her, and change her way of thinking. Obviously it didn’t do any good. She flips this way and that, like a pendulum. I have since then given up on trying to get any lasting results with her. Thank you for joining the discussions.

    I would have given up on me long ago too.

    I do flip and flop all over the place and it is horrible. I am aware of my mood swings, which leaves a big knot of shame in my stomach that I have to sit with for the rest of the day. I feel eccentric at times, but I am fun to be around, I love to laugh, even though I am so disabled at the moment. I have nothing else left to do but to think nice thoughts, laugh if I can, and listen to my music. I am living on my good memories, to get me to whereever I need to go, because I have no idea what is happening to me, and I am so tired of being scared I keep telling myself to let go, but I don’t want to stop fighting. I am in constant arguement in my mind 24/7. All I need is a doctor to take a look at me, to put my mind at ease. If this is all in my head, then prove it to me.

  76. I am not sure if you are interested in my opinion of my symptoms at present, but here goes.

    I think it was the antibiotic I just had. I should know I have sucked up an entire river worth of antibiotics.

    The last IV treatment I had brought me close to 2 days away from dying according to that “duck” – he was right on that one.

    I think doctors just look at me and assume I am on drugs. Well they can assume all they like. Let me tell you, anyone who is put into a position like this will want to take drugs. But it will end up being a no win situation. There is no escape whether you go up or down. Plain and simple, sick and I have no idea why.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chqfe3lYdFw&mode=related&search=

  77. I will give you a quick example if I can:

    Yesterday I watched “Jamugi” (sp??). This was my 3rd attempt to watch during this illness. I wanted to force myself to rest on the couch.

    The two children in the movie are called “Alan” and “Sarah”. Well I thought of me (Sarah Connor) and Al in Tasmania. I didn’t freak, I just had a big sigh and said to myself I wish this would all stop.

    Looking for “home” is exactly the only way to describe my sensations. Reminds me of the old people I used to work with, suffering from Alhzeimers. The behaviour I have had recently with yelling and swearing foul language reminds me of an old lady one time. She was an actual “Lady” and about 102 years of age, it was so sad to here what came out of her mouth when the nurses tried to shower her. It all makes sense to me now, their pain must have been horrible and their fear…of that breaks my heart.

    To feel as thought I can predict the future is a thought I would rather not entertain. At times it becomes quite over powering. To feel as though you can read someone elses thoughts is also very frightening, but it happens. I feel as though I am slightly in the future, or living in the death. How else can I explain rejecting from everyone, more so from my family.

    My theories get even more way out, but they all make sense to me. I exhibit lots of diseases from A -Z but nothing shows in my blood. I mimic everything. I have thought Lyme disease for a very long time, but 2 negative blood tests. I just keep going around in circles.

  78. No one deserves to die a slow miserable death, especially on their own.

  79. Michael -

    If you honestly believe that dermatologist used a dermatascope to look at that patient’s skin at any point, you’re delusional.

    If you honestly believe that a dermatologist is capable of determining the composition of a microscopic fiber by eyeballing it with a microscope, you’re delusional.

  80. Not sure what you all want to know about me. So in a nutshell, I am a 36 year old white male and I live and work in the San Francisco Bay Area. I have an associates degree in environmental science and a bachelors in mechanical engineering. The california courts have considered me a credible witness and friends consider me loyal and honest. Although most do not understand why I do not come around as often as I used to, and unless asked directly, do not divulge much about my reasons why not. I am still currently employed and have only missed a handfull of days of work because of this illness, but this in fact is related to the fact that I am self managed and work as independantly as I wish to. If I had to worry about spreading this illness in, for example, and office environment, I likely would have resigned years ago. When I am not working, I like to build or restore things, my current project is a classic jetboat which is now finished to the point that when i jump on it, will make your knuckles turn white from holding on too tight, and gets your adrenaline pumping in a way that only going 110mph+ on the water will give.

    I am an ordinary person who likes people, is charitable and often roots for the underdog. And here is the Biggie. I could be a friend or coworker or acquaintance one of anyone who is reading these words.

    Ok, now its your turn

  81. What are you saying Pez, that dermatologists don’t use dermatascopes?

    You are suggesting that dermatologists are trained to recognize certain signs, like the matchbox sign, that actually preclude the need for a skin examination?

    That’s just silly. Show me one Morgellons sufferer who has never has their skin examined.

  82. Me!

    I paid $170 to go to a Dermatologist this year. I didn’t want to go and see him, the quack sent me.

    The Dermatologist I saw got me to sit on the examination bed and he had a scope thing in his hand, and it had a light. He looked at both of my arms (I had a singlet type top on so he could see my entire arms and chest). He also looked at my breasts because they have some very tell tale signs. This took in total, I guess here, a minute if that.

    The he asked me to sit in the chair, cross my arms across and my tummy – whilst he took 2 photos. The only help he said he could give me was some cream to go and ask the chemist to make, which was Menthol 1% in an aqueous base cream. He then gave me the name of a Doctor at the Skin and Cancer Foundation – in the psychosomatic group. He said write to her or contact her and tell her about Morgellons Disease. I never did, I was too sick.

    I got a reminder bill from this Dermatologist the other day. I still owe $10. Medicare messed me around with this account and I do not understand what happened. The account the other day said,”pay $10 in 7 days or legal action will be taken”. They can be my guest and sue my arse, I don’t care. I haven’t got the energy to pay the bill at the moment.

  83. Yes, I am saying that. If you want to test it out, see a dermatologist and say you have crawling sensations and fibers and see if he looks at your skin with a dermatoscope.

    If he doesn’t, then you can safely disband this website.

  84. Disband the website? What exactly should I say to the doctor?

    Me: “Doc, I have crawling sensations and fibers”
    Doc: “what do you mean fibers?”

    What do I mean? Tell me Pez, how exactly did you tell your dermatologist you “had fibers”.

    Gillian claim to be an example of this, yet then describes how the doctor looked at her skin and took photos. What does she want, a punch biopsy? Why exactly?

    Look at Cindy Casey’s diary – a typical account:

    http://cherokeechas.com/Morg01.htm

    Several times in there doctors examine her skin. Even using a “Radio Shack Microscope” as instructed by Cindy. They still don’t find unusual fibers. Of course since Cindy and Chas were convinced, they just rejected the doctors opinion, and continued on to the next doctor, happily oblivious of reality.

    If there is actually nothing there, then it does not matter how much the doctors examine you, it will never be enough, they will always have fallen short. If they just look at you, they should look closer, if they look closer they should use a dermatoscope, if they use a dermatoscope they should use a microscope, if they use a microscope they should use an electron microscope, if they look once they should look twice, if the fibers look like lint they should do a FTIR analysis, if they can’t identify the fibers they should send them to a lab, if the fibers are cotton then they should investigate cotton producing nematodes…

    Of course dermatologists examine the skin. But for the patient who thinks they have some disease new to science, their examinations will never be enough.

  85. When a person goes in to see a dermotologist, complaining of creepy-crawley sensations and fibers coming out of their skin, it’s obvious what a big part of the problem is, even without closer examination. But, a derm should examine the skin more closely to determine whether there’s any real physical problems.

    TC

  86. Welcome back. We missed you. Have you been out grave robbing? Just kidding! I know that you restore grave markers, and I consider it a very thoughtful and important service. If you find any gold teeth, or anything, jewelry, etc., count me in as a partner. Just kidding again.

    Hiya TC, and thanks!

    I did uncover a very old and intact I.O.R.M. headstone a couple of weeks ago, which is a rare find and considered a bit of a coup in my circles (yes, there are other people like me!) and managed to sneak into a historic mausoleum to snap some pictures while the caretaker wasn’t looking (it’s absolutely stunning, by the way) but alas, no gold or other tangible treasures. I will surely keep you in mind, though!

  87. South,

    It doesn’t matter whether your friends consider you to be honest or not. You’ve already proven yourself to be a liar. Your credentials are very impressive. You sound like you might be qualified to troubleshoot a robot. It’s unfortunate that you’ve gotten caught up in Tam-Tam’s nonsense.

    Tall Cotton

  88. Tall,

    No worries. I know your intentions are good.

    Sarah

  89. South,

    You’ve proven my point. You’re shouting for credentials, and yet, you have but an associate’s and a bachelor’s. You ask us to go on your word that you are honest and trustworthy.

    I don’t even mention my associate’s, but I have one in science, and a bachelor’s of science, and I’m in a clinical graduate program. I have been asked several times to be an expert witness, but decline, as I want to avoid the court system, in the footsteps of the prestigious scientists I wish to emulate. People who know me say I’m honest and trustworthy, people who don’t know me say I’m a CIA agent or a bitch. The people who know me laugh at those people who don’t know me.

    You have proven my point, South. “Credentials, credentials, credentials.” Yet, where are yours? Some lawyer asked you to say what they wanted you to say? Your want us to go on your word that you are honest and trustworthy, while you assume everyone on this website is a spy, a government conspirator, a jerk who is trying to say you are “crazy”? Explain this dichotomy, of what you allow for yourself and “credentials” and personal testimony, and what you do not allow for others.

  90. Gillian claim to be an example of this, yet then describes how the doctor looked at her skin and took photos. What does she want, a punch biopsy? Why exactly?

    Why did the Dermatologist take the photos?

    Obviously, the photos were not taken for my benefit?

    I would like a proper physical examination thank you. I think an examination by a Dermatologist in under a minute is not sufficient to diagnose anything. I gave him all the Morgellons material like I was asked to do by my quack. Don’t shoot the messenger.

    My local vet takes a great deal of time examining my cat Sally for her check up.

    What makes me so different?

    Do I not deserve to be treated like a human being?

  91. Look at Cindy Casey’s diary – a typical account:

    That is ONE example.

    Cindy and Charles obviously had the time, and money, so did what they had to do.

    I think it is a little too late for me to be chasing around to different doctors, ie. “Doctor Shopping”.

    Could you imagine me making a doctors appointment with a new doctor, and trying to explain any of my health issues I have had over the past 10 years since being diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, and then mention Morgellons???

    I don’t think so…

  92. Gillian, you’ve had lots of tests done on you. Blood work, scans, EEG.

    Has a real doctor ever found anything physically wrong with you?

  93. There’s no reason to ever discuss a topic like Morgellons with a doctor. When a person thinks they have morgellons, it’s obvious to an informed doctor that the individual is delusional. He therefore wants the person’s thinking to be straightened up so that he can discuss their real symptoms with some degree of accuracy. That’s why the Morgies are either prescribed anti-psychotics, or else referred to a psychiatrist. No good psychiatrist is going to give a person a clean bill of mental health as long as they think they have Morgellons.

    TC

  94. SBD, you may have missed the memo. Morgies are all “citizen scientists” ;)

  95. Jeeez… I missed that memo! Just like I missed the memo from “the government” telling all “scientists” to discount the Collembola study…. either I’m not on the mailing list, or, someone in the upper ranks of my vicious, diabolical “government” conspiracy club is ousting me. Shucks.

  96. South, I have never wanted to know anything about you, other than the several times I have asked you a question on this blog. When a person brings something up, it is an open invitation for questions. Otherwise, people NORMALLY keep things to themselves when they don’t want to engage others. That isn’t the way the “morgellons disease” community does, though. Like most morgies, you just ignored me, every time, or launched into defense/attack mode, rather than saying that you didn’t wish to answer. Like other morgies, you demand credentials, when seeing opposing discussions about “morgellons disease”, and take it as a personal, direct, attack on you. You have shown a lot about yourself, on line. My first knowledge of you, was of a man coming onto lymebusters message board, reporting that he was being followed by someone he thought was behind the conspiracy of “morgellons disease”, and, since then, I have learned more of how severe a problem you appear to have. Whether you mean to lie, I have no idea. Some people seem to not know that they are. Surely you cannot get by without acknowledging, to yourself, that you have to be cognizant of the fact that you lied in reporting that you investigated Tall Cotton and me, and found out who all our past, and our current, employers are. Neither of us work, anymore, and I have only had one employer in my lifetime. The only people who have any reason to believe anything that you say are other disturbed people who make public statements about themselves that are also totally closed to discussions. You don’t see it, though, anymore than they do, apparently. That lack of accountability, on such an elementary level, is a behavior that reveals things to others. Such people as you, and other believers in “morgellons disease”, don’t have the ability to problem solve, and understand that fact. Of course, people like that can’t know fact from fiction. Maybe some really find fiction a lot more comfortable than reality. But, you truly are a gigantic fear monger, South. That, you can’t deny to yourself.

    Pez? Oh, nevermind.

    Sarah, I apologize, too, for the time TC referred to. I didn’t realize I was being played, at the time. I think you are really a cool chick.

    Speaking of cool chicks, Jeezelouise, considering your particular interest, there are others like you, and I used to be one! Well, I still am, but can’t get out, anymore, like I used to. My father passed the interest onto me, as I believe you’d said yours has a passion for it too.

    Michael, what you said about it “never being good enough” was more profound, I think, than maybe you even meant for it to be. (Oh, my head.)

  97. Has a real doctor ever found anything physically wrong with you?

    Fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, body dysmorphic disorder, anxiety, depression, severe premenstrual syndrome, bruxism, irritable bowel syndrome, ? leady gut syndrome, chronic sinus mucosal disease, lumbar spine herniation, cleft/tear right hip, drop right foot ? (no idea why).

  98. I haven’t been given a diagnosis on my skin by anyone. The quack kinda whispered connective tissue disease, but then he said scleroderma (even though my blood was clear).

    To add to the above list, the quack diagnosed the following, but he never physically examined me, he just said; Rickettsia causes all of these things.

    No one has ever told me Rickettsia meant cruelty, pain, and we will make sure you die an awful death??

    Multiple Sclerosis, Raynards phenomonen, epilepsy.

    Meniere”s Disease was diagnosed after I asked him to examine my ears (also known as glue ear).

  99. Sorry, I remember asking the quack; “What has happened to my skin,do you think”, he said: “we call that autoimmune disease.”

    Anyone know the treatment for autoimmune disease, or even a doctor?? Haha!! oh really..

  100. Michael – Let’s look at this in a real simple, straight forward way.

    My current doctor has in her posession a letter from Mr Dan Rutz regarding Morgellons Disease. Wouldn’t you think that a phone call from my doctor to Mr Rutz at the CDC in America, on my behalf, since I am so unwell, and she doesn’t know what is going on with me. Rather than it all being thrown back onto me ie. “What’s wrong now”!!

    I can see the logical way around this.

    Why is it everyone else is having so much trouble?

  101. Whilst the rest of society are living in a delusion and me in an illusion, never the twain shall meet.

    I know I have to sit this out. This illness makes one suffer, and linger, no sudden death happening here. Slow, and painful.

    I am dreading the coming events I have predicted for myself, and I can not see it happening any other way.

    This is the way it is meant to be.

  102. I still want out of this experiment, if you know what I mean.

  103. I’m sorry, you’d actually said, “never being enough”. It sure appears that “morgellons disease” is “the disease to blame everything on” (sort of as a shield, almost, so to speak), for some people to avoid dealing with themselves. Well, it covers everything though, and fibers tie it all together, and believers need how they feel to be somebody’s fault. I know it isn’t that simple, but for some, I think it is. (The whole thing hurts my head, and always has.)

  104. Emotional Management
    http://montalk.net/matrix/64/emotional-management

    Al just sent me this link to read. I started to read, but I can’t continue, my eyes hurt too much. Some readers my find it interesting,

    I would love some feedback from you guys if you think there is anything in that article, which could help me.

    Since being in this illusion, it has made me realise how unprepared society is for the bird flu. I mean how would a doctor recognise a mutated strain. They would assume a simple virus.

    I hope you can all see the red flags and danger signs ahead, which are now closing in on us all.

  105. The human brain does everything within it’s power to create the conditions one believes that they have. It cannot distinguish between hope and fear. It just tries to make one’s beliefs real. It will set one’s fears as it’s goals, just like it will a healthy picture of oneself. It helps to have positive thoughts and not let morbidity creep in. Fear will “close in” on a person if they give it half a chance.

    TC

  106. Hi all, sorry, I wrote on the wrong column earlier today. Yes, I’m thinking it is porphyria cutanea tarda from some bad chemicles…..possibly even agent orange- one never knows…..

    But I just wanted to say that 1. that disease says it is actually made up of many diseases.. so that’s correct if nothing else…LOL

    and also, I think it may tie into what I have been guessing mine was…polycythemia vera- but God I hope not.

    I will be back in touch in a day or two….Sara, yes, I got your question and will try to explain and even hyperlink it as well, but It will be tomorrow or the next before I can.

    TC: You mean A-hole. I still Love ya…..Morphine sucker..(I’ll take 3 for 5.oo hehe)

    later all~

    London

  107. Smileykins – I would love to “deal” with myself if I could.

    I feel as though I have been robbed of who I really was and top of being extremely sick.

    That is why I ask Doctors for help, and I’m stil asking.

  108. Gillian, finish this, just for yourself. You don’t have to say it here, just think about it, for yourself. “Living in domestic is okay for me, because………” (List all your reasons, and number them. Then, look at the list when you’re done.)

  109. OOPS!!! I don’t know how I left out the key word. Sorry, “domestic violence”.

  110. Gillian said…

    I feel as though I have been robbed of who I really was and top of being extremely sick.

    Tall Cotton said…

    Join the crowd. But unlike you, we know that there isn’t any cure for what we have. We don’t fret about it. We learn to adapt. If a cure comes along, great. We’ll probably go for it, but if it doesn’t, we aren’t going to waste what life we have left.

    TC

  111. London, have you taken the caterpillar bodiesinto consideration?

    Pez, as it states in this “Online education in skin diseases for Medical Students, General Practitioners
    and other Medical Specialists and their Trainees”….

    Dermatology is an exceedingly interesting specialty. There are more than 2000 named skin diseases many of which are very rare. The big advantage of dermatology over other specialties is that you are able to see, touch and feel the problem you are dealing with and sometimes even smell it! An experienced Dermatologist can recognise the common skin diseases at 20 paces without the need for expensive tests or scans or even skin biopsies. 90% of inflammatory skin disease seen in clinical practice is made up of psoriasis, eczema and acne but each of these conditions has many different clinical presentations,

    http://www.learndermatology.com/

    ” An experienced Dermatologist can recognise the common skin diseases at 20 paces without the need for expensive tests or scans or even skin biopsies.” I’ve only had the occasion three times in my life, and I was extremely impressed in their ability to do that.

  112. A dermatologist can also add DOP to the diagnosis based on what the patient has to say about their experience. If they have an unshakeable belief that they have parasites in their skin, and they’re obcessed with environmental fibers, believing them to be part of a disease process, it’s obvious that DOP is also one of the patient’s problems.

    TC

  113. Well, you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about, TC. Dermatologists are just as lame as primary care physicians and shrinks. None of them know how to practice medicine correctly. They would probably gladly look outside of the box if they weren’t all part of this conspiracy. Morgie people are way smarter than the rest of society, and these doctors are probably jealous of that, too.

    Oh, my helmet fell off. Hehehe. But really, Wymore, Harvey, and all of the morgie professionals, of all things, saying that if doctors would only look at their morgie patients’ skin, they would see that it’s not all inside their heads. Why do they not give a damn what the rest of society thinks of them for being so freaking ignorant? Of course these people have fibers, granules, crystal-like objects, and various other things from the environment trapped within their epidermal layer. That’s what our epidermis does to protect us. Most of these patients are chronically fatiqued, and it’s likely that some are too tired to bathe every day. Eighty-five percent of the homes in the United States have hard water, and when people with hard water bathe, they can’t get their skin cleaned off adequately. Soap leaves a film that keeps building up, skin gets suffocated, dull, and can’t renew itself. Adding lotions build the epidermal layer up even thicker. Now, I’m only talking, here, about fibers in unbroken skin. Whatever else people have going on, varies, for sure. People without any other skin problems, need to exfoliate, period.

  114. I’m sorry, but this has been bugging me for a couple days. Sarah B-D, I find it extremely hypocritical for you to be judging Jules because he has “only” a bachelors degree. Since you are in a graduate program, you’re somehow smarter or better than he is? Yet I, who am the ONLY person that has been on this blog that is in a graduate program for biomedical sciences, am the one that everyone attacks. Sarah, you may have an undergrad degree in biology, but I’m sure you know that a bachelors degree is not solely focused on one subject, that comes later as a grad student. You are working on a graduate degree in psych, right? You’ve made several good points on many different mental disorders, etc on this site, but you are barely more qualified than anyone else here to address the biological issues. To be honest, I was quite surprised to see you saying something so “I’m better than you because I’ve been in school longer.”

    And TC and everyone else- there is a huge difference between an environmental sample and an environmental contaminant. We have never said we believed this disease to be due to bugs, or any other organic source- because quite frankly, right now we don’t know. But we realize quite clearly (because we are, after all the ones with biology degrees) that the fibers sent to the Tulsa PD are not organic, which would make them environmental- it does not necessarily mean they are contaminants. When I say they are not contaminants I mean that it is not dust from dropping a sample on the floor or accidentally spilling a chemical on it, it just means I sent in pure samples to be analyzed. Oh, and also Marg, we are not just doing PCR. I am not, however, going to give you more information on our research because when I do it’s an instantaneous attack on how stupid I am and how I don’t know what I’m doing.

    Yes, I did indeed jump into this blog with my foot in my mouth. There is no taking that back. I was simply upset that some morgies wanted to blame me because other morgies had attempted, or were threatening to attempt, suicide. If you think I don’t know that some of these people have purely psychiatric disorders, you are wrong. That is of course the main danger of people self-diagnosing, if you identify with some symptoms of a disease it’s very easy to believe that’s what you have. Lately, though, we are getting more and more phone calls and emails from concerned physicians (NOT ones that are just out to get the morgies money, and we all know they’re out there) who believe that their patients do indeed suffer something that is not DOP.

  115. Smileykins Says:
    December 14th, 2006 at 2:28 am
    Gillian, finish this, just for yourself. You don’t have to say it here, just think about it, for yourself. “Living in domestic is okay for me, because………” (List all your reasons, and number them. Then, look at the list when you’re done.)

    I have done that, now what do I do?

  116. To be perfectly honest I have done everything for myself that I could possibly do.

    In other words, I have covered every corner of this “globe” looking for help and answers for myself, even if the doctor won’t help me. The doctors can help me if they wanted to, I know that because this is my body.

    When I have to go to such lengths as yell at my mum and dad down the phone yesterday, I realise after the event, I must be dying because I would never have said what I said to my parents if this was not the case.

    My mum said, “your dad didn’t mean to say it was your fault, he is just really upset with the way Tony is behaving”. I asked her not to attack Tony through myself. I said my mental health at the moment can not cope with unnecessary stress. She then said; “Look your dad does know how sick you really are, and that is what is hurting him the most”.

    Yeah so anyway, another day in paradise for me today. Well mornings are really hard for me. I’m full of a head cold and was woken up very early this morning with Sally my cat literally sitting on me! She knows something is not right with me, I keep telling her to stop worrying! Anyway we made a deal, which was I had to get up and feed her. That made her happy, I couldn’t get back to sleep anyway, even though I am so damn tired.

    I got to drop Tony at the hospital this morning. I didn’t realise but he is going into a really good private hospital which is 40 minutes drive from home. I’m pleased he will be in good care, I’m just dreading driving home.

  117. Yet I, who am the ONLY person that has been on this blog that is in a graduate program for biomedical sciences, am the one that everyone attacks.

    Yes, I did indeed jump into this blog with my foot in my mouth. There is no taking that back. I was simply upset that some morgies wanted to blame me because other morgies had attempted, or were threatening to attempt, suicide.

    Jace, it’s good you realize that you had displaced anger, excusing yourself, now, for the past. I think you might need to try working on your inferiority issues as well, including reviewing, also, why SBD said what she did, to “South”.

  118. Jace,

    Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think SBD told “South”, not Jules, what type of degree she had, and that was only after South asked what kind of credentials we all had, and boast about his bachelors degree in mechanical engineering and associates degree in environmental studies.

    I didn’t say that you, Wymore, or anyone else contaminated your fiber specimens. I said that your specimens are contaminants, environmental contaminants in peoples lesions. I’ve seen a variety of different types of fibers that came from people’s lesions, most of which were nothing but cotton clothing fibers.

    I think if you and Wymore had a greater understanding of psychiatric disorders you would understand that the Morgies are suffering from a wide variety of physical disorders and that their common ground is psychiatric. No one would be able to make you fell stupid unless you already feel that way.

    Tall Cotton

  119. Nice. I couldn’t find that statement, and I thought it was to Jules. No big deal though, because you obviously knew exactly what I was talking about, didn’t you? You two are acting like my just-out-of-high-school community college students, picking inconsequencial reasons to argue with me just for the sake of arguing. You, of course, are not that young. But really, thanks for clearing that up for me. As far as inferiority problems go, you are so laughably wrong about me. I actually don’t feel inferior to anyone, why should I when my IQ is in the top 5-10% in the world? So, who exactly am I supposed to feel inferior to? Maybe Einstein or Franklin, but definitely not one of you. And I didn’t say *I* felt stupid, I said you call me stupid. Big difference.

    And honestly, I would like to know why all of you are SO sure that everyone has fibers in open lesions. Between my 5 kids, my husband and myself with multiple wounds that *should* by your statements have all kinds of “environmental contaminant”, we have never seen anything even remotely like that in any of their lesions. My youngest has very bad problems with eczema and many bouts of open sores and I have never found anything in any of them.

  120. An understanding of human skin properties would have been a nice place for Wymore to start, or to have picked up on, somewhere along the way, too. I was impressed that Dr. Harvey seemed to almost have a little bit of knowledge:

    Harvey also found tiny worms on a patient’s scalp that later proved to be the nymph form of a feline parasite — a tapeworm that preys on cats and shouldn’t be found on humans. Other patients were infested with forms of algae, other plant pathogens, or candida tropicalis, the fungus found in the laboratory culture of the “fibers.”

    “Once I started taking these patients seriously, I saw the variety and number of unusual and unexpected skin occupants was real, they were unequivocally there,” Harvey said. “I still don’t know what some of these things are, but my theory is that the symptoms are a phenomenon of a much larger process that has rendered their skin immunity ineffective.”

    The process could allow plant and animal organisms that couldn’t survive on uninfected people to thrive on Morgellon’s patients’ skin.

    Some patients report the “crawling feeling” without the threads, lesions or other symptoms, Harvey said, and all seem to have easily testable immune deficiencies. All 17 of his “Morgellons’” patients in Houston have tested positive for the microbe associated with Lyme disease, he said.

    Harvey said he treats the skin lesions with a lactic acid cream and all the other symptoms with high-dose antibiotics. He said the lesions heal over with treatment, but they leave blue indentations at the sites of the skin breaks. “That scar may give us a clue,” he said. “Something pathologic is happening there.”

    http://tinyurl.com/gulng

    …..BUT what’s his motivation? For people without any visible damage to have things in, or on, their skin or scalps, infrequent, or inadequate bathing, especially in hard water, and sun damage, also, is not a mystery to science.

  121. Sit down, Charlie Brown. I’d overlooked this, as many times as I’ve read that above link:

    Harvey said delusional parasitosis is a real disease, but some of the patients he’s seen aren’t hallucinating. Because the symptoms of the real disease match the description of the psychosomatic ailment, doctors often misdiagnose the cases, he said.

    Ain’t a darned one of them that understands what DOP is about.

  122. Jace Said:

    Oh, and also Marg, we are not just doing PCR. I am not, however, going to give you more information on our research because when I do it’s an instantaneous attack on how stupid I am and how I don’t know what I’m doing.

    I’m sorry Jace, but that just says to me that you’ve got no confidence in your methods either. If you you can guess the criticism that people will level at you, then why don’t you have an answer for that criticism?

    And don’t get hung up on credentials either. Credentials are really only important when talking about opinion in the rather pure form – feelings and intuition based on unquantifiable yet substantial experience. Even then, the presence or absence of formal qualifications is not always a useful measure.

  123. Credentials are really only important when talking about opinion in the rather pure form – feelings and intuition based on unquantifiable yet substantial experience.

    “Experience” a like that word Michael. I don’t have a degree or letters after my name. I have studied extensively, night school and so on, but I got lots of “life experience” and I love and care about people. Even though I have been so mean and nasty at times on this blog. I was never that sort of person in the past. A misdiagnosis years ago, and unfortunately me thinking I could trust certain GP’s has led me to be in the state of health I am in now.

    Hence to say; “I get knocked down, and I get up again”! Tony has always said to me; “when you die, say maybe in your 70′s, they will have to play that song at your funeral Gill, coz you certainly do get knocked down, but you sure do get up again”!

    I thought was really nice of him. We all go through such terrible times with illness, and it is so hard to explain your own situation to your family when doctors have put us in this position. Why?? I just don’t know, and I don’t want to know. I just know that I never want to be like them, fame and money doesn’t bring happiness, or a better life style, or more friends. Without your health ya got nothing. I focus on love, and caring.

    If Everyone Cared (Amen I’m Alive)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NumsA4D9h2g

  124. Comments number 81 and number 90. “No big deal”? Gee-whiz, Jace, you were the one who came in saying it had been bugging you for a couple of days. If you allowed SBD’s comments to South to upset you, next time, read things over better and you won’t misunderstand things. I still see something, very strong, in your words, whether you know about it, yourself, or not, Jace.

  125. Smileykins Says:
    December 16th, 2006 at 8:51 pm
    Ain’t a darned one of them that understands what DOP is about.

    You can include me in that one too Smileykins.

    Very hard to find information on the internet regarding DOP. I even tried looking up DOP on the Australian Medical Journal site, there was nothing there.

    So, I have at least tried to learn.

  126. Jace,

    Maybe you wouldn’t feel so troubled about what SBD said if you had not confused the matter, thinking she was talking to Jules. Or have you not read the blog to know that South is always asking for credentials? Maybe you wouldn’t let things trouble you so badly if you would paid closer attention.

    You came here again, with both guns blazing, trying to correct someone, any way you could. You not only critiziced SBD for no good reason, you also tr of ied to make it look like I had accused your people of contaminating your specimens. I did nothing of the sort, yet you tried to make it look like I did, or else it was just another misunderstanding on your part. What’s really caused you to feel so frustrated? Is it because the research isn’t turning out the way you had hoped?

    Tall Cotton

  127. And Please Sarah, don’t come back shouting at me either!!!

    Any human being just does the best that they can do.

    Do have a nice day Sarah!

  128. I wasn’t being condescending either, I meant it; have a nice day, night or woteva!

    Father Christmas will be here soon!!

  129. Jace,

    Did you really try to find that comment that SBD made to South. It’s comment #90 on this same topic.

    TC

  130. Smileycans,

    No, I had not taken the caterpillar b. into consideration, not even heard of it. But thanks, Now I have and Now I certainly will. Appreciate it.
    Hey, a symptom of porphyria C.T. is MENTAL, I know the Big TC will Love to hear that!

    This is for Michael, I was wonder if he could explain it to me:

    Semiconductor laser optical amplifiers for use in future fibersystems

    Abstract

    The application of semiconductor laser amplifiers to long-wavelength optical fiber systems is discussed. The basic equations defining laser amplifier characteristics are presented together with experimental results. Linear and nonlinear modes of operation are considered; the former includes use as an optical gain block, a linear repeater, and a preamplifier, while the latter includes use as a bistable element, an electrically controlled optical switch, and an injection-locked amplifier

    Thanks a million…

    London

  131. oops, I meant to leave this website here for Sara. And I will get back w/ you Sara on the rest of your questions. (honestly, I need to go find that post and re-read it) But I do remember part of it and thought this would cover that…..

    http://studentpages.scad.edu/~mparro21/thesis/paper.html

    London

  132. Gillian said:
    Very hard to find information on the internet regarding DOP. I even tried looking up DOP on the Australian Medical Journal site, there was nothing there.

    Very hard? If you Google delusional parasitos you get a lot of useful information on the first page (and some anti-DOP stuff as well).
    http://www.google.com/search?q=delusional+parasitosis

    In fact one of the results if from the MJA
    http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/179_04_180803/le10588_fm.html

    The MJA also provides this amusing anecdote, where a suspected case of DOP turns out to be real parasites. It’s interesting because it shows that the professor has seen hundreds of patients with DOP, yet he still dilligently examines the specimins sent to him, and is surprised that this time it turns out to be real.
    http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/173_11_041200/prociv/prociv.html

    Unfortunately, if you are a believer, you will simply take this story to indicate your own doctors have not looked hard enough, an perhaps you should send your samples to this poor professor. But the key phrase is “almost every week there would be enquiries from distressed individuals being eaten alive from the inside or outside by squirming “bugs” of bizarre shapes and colours.“. The implication being that the vast majority of the time, the people were actually delusional.

  133. London, I’d really appreciate it if you could try to explain why you post a link in the first place when you ask me to explain it. The first link is on optical amplifiers. I’m sure you realize by now that fiberoptics are just a type of cable that uses light instead of electricity to carry telecommunications (phone calls, internet). Amplifiers are used for the same reasons they are used in electronics, to make a small signal stronger, usually with fiberoptics it’s so it can travel farther.

    The problem is, this has NOTHING to do with biology, and nothing to do with illness, physical or mental. Nor does your second link, on simulated life – it has no more connection with biology than a painting of a pipe has to a pipe.

    London, Google is not intelligent. If you ask Google a question, it’s going to throw up some chaff that you need to learn how to winnow in order to harvest the useful results.

    I’m not going to winnow for you. If you want to know something, then ask a question that shows you understand what you are asking about. If you don’t understand, then try to figure out the edge of your genuine knowledge, and figure out a new question that you do understand.

  134. Cold Springs Harbour Laboratory
    Founded in 1890, CSHL is a private, non-profit institution with research programs in cancer,
    neuroscience, plant genetics, genomics, and bioinformatics and a broad educational mission.
    http://www.cshl.edu/

    Devolab
    http://devolab.cse.msu.edu/

    Genetic Origins
    http://www.geneticorigins.org/geneticorigins/

    Dart
    http://dart.cshl.edu/DART/public/index.html

    DNA Learning Centre
    http://www.dnalc.org/home.html

  135. Michael, thank you for those links. You know ,I do remember reading one of those quite some time back, years in fact. I remembered at the time it was really hard to find, I think I am just googled out lately.

    …and lost for words to type sometimes!

    As I was saying, good read, thank you. DOP is real then.

  136. First, Marg, your assumption is asinine. I said that here, in this forum, I would be attacked. This is based on fact. No matter what I say here I am attacked every time I post on this board. In real life, no one criticizes me. They are skeptical, which I understand because I would be too, but never critical.

    Second it doesn’t matter who she was talking to. I would have thought it extremely rude no matter who it was. I did search for that post, but I thought it was to Jules so that’s what I searched for. But to reiterate, the reason I said what I did was due to tone and had nothing to do with who she said it to. I know that he’s been asking these questions all along, but her tone was very condescending and that’s what I have a problem with. That doesn’t change no matter who she was talking to- it was very “holier than thou” and it rubbed me the wrong way. She could have simply told him her credentials without patronizing him. My guns weren’t blazing, I just can’t stand bullying behavior.

    Thirdly *I* am not the one obsessed with credentials, and I wasn’t trying to correct anyone or anything. What on earth was I trying to correct? That doesn’t even make sense to me. I wasn’t correcting what she said, I was just saying it was very rude. I personally don’t care what anyone’s credentials are. Apparently south and sarah bd do. I don’t understand how you came to the conclusion that I’m the one obsessed with credentials. I know as well as everyone else that experience is just as important as education in almost any profession. I have never come here asking everyone’s credentials. As far as I can see, other than Sarah no one has really even talked about their education.

    And last, TC I did NOT say that you were accusing us of contaminating our samples. I was trying to show the difference between environmental contaminants and environmental specimens by example. Apparently the science that distinguishes these things is not understood by this group, and that’s fine. A contaminant would be fibers, etc that people have sent to us. We have no way of knowing where, when and how the patients got these samples. Those could very easily be contaminants, and I have had people sending in thread or carpet. Those are environmental contaminants. The fibers we analyzed were pulled out of a patient’s unbroken skin on her back are not “contaminants”. The sample we got was very low on the back and there was no unbroken skin or other lesions anywhere near that area. That to me is possibly something environmental that got into the patients body, but there is no way that these samples were from having an open wound and getting household dust in it. I was the one running the dermatoscope and I saw these with my own eyes. Does that clear it up for you? When we say they’re not environmental contaminants we mean that they aren’t something sent in a box, these are things that have been taken directly from a patients skin and are not something that just fell into a wound.

    I just wanted to clarify since almost everything I said was misunderstood or misconstrued. And Marg, I’m not sure when you became antagonistic toward me, but lately every thing you’ve had to say on your blog has been very ascerbic. Are you still bored with this subject? Still planning on closing the board? I miss the days when you were willing to admit that there is at least the possibilty of morgellons disease. I assume those days are gone? Oh well, I liked you better when you were skeptical, not angry.

  137. The Issues of Euthanasia
    http://www.nswrtl.org.au/euthanasia.html

    I am not posting these links, well this ONE in particular, to gain sympathy votes from ANYONE.

    I am pointing out some cold hard facts.

  138. Jace,

    Oh, how funny.

    Jace says:
    I’m sorry, but this has been bugging me for a couple days. Sarah B-D, I find it extremely hypocritical for you to be judging Jules because he has “only” a bachelors degree. Since you are in a graduate program, you’re somehow smarter or better than he is?

    Please show me where I said that I was smarter/better? Quotes will suffice.

    Jace Says:
    Sarah, you may have an undergrad degree in biology, but I’m sure you know that a bachelors degree is not solely focused on one subject, that comes later as a grad student.

    Please show me where I said I had an undergrad degree in biology. Quotes will suffice.

    Jace says:
    You are working on a graduate degree in psych, right? You’ve made several good points on many different mental disorders, etc on this site, but you are barely more qualified than anyone else here to address the biological issues. To be honest, I was quite surprised to see you saying something so “I’m better than you because I’ve been in school longer.”

    Exactly my point. You finally said something not completely made up in your imagination. If South (by the way, is not Jules) is going to attack folks for their qualifications, I just wanted to point out that Southcity is no smarter nor better than anyone else here.

  139. London,

    Thank you for sharing the link about genetic art.

    Here’s a link for you back, equally applicable:
    http://www.puzzlehouse.com/images/webpage/monalisa1000.jpg

  140. London,

    I hate to rain on your parade, but none of the material discussed on the fiber disease topic on biology online has anything to do with Morgellons. Nada. Of course, Raggin’ Randy already told you that a few thousand times, and it’s your business, but I thought I would let you know my opinion on that. Have you seen a rheumatologist yet. You need to do that, pronto, if you havn’t already.

    Gillian,

    Do you happen to know what “Harass Sarah” is when it is spelled backwards. Not that anyone intends to do that to you, but I thought you might like to know that palindrome.

    Tall Cotton

  141. Ya got way too much inner static, Jace. And, I’m sorry.

    Yet I, who am the ONLY person that has been on this blog that is in a graduate program for biomedical sciences, am the one that everyone attacks.

    To be honest, I was quite surprised to see you saying something so “I’m better than you because I’ve been in school longer.”

    I am not, however, going to give you more information on our research because when I do it’s an instantaneous attack on how stupid I am and how I don’t know what I’m doing.

    You two are acting like my just-out-of-high-school community college students, picking inconsequencial reasons to argue with me just for the sake of arguing. You, of course, are not that young.

    As far as inferiority problems go, you are so laughably wrong about me. I actually don’t feel inferior to anyone, why should I when my IQ is in the top 5-10% in the world? So, who exactly am I supposed to feel inferior to? Maybe Einstein or Franklin, but definitely not one of you. And I didn’t say *I* felt stupid, I said you call me stupid. Big difference.

    Fun Wymore quote from earlier this year:

    Wymore said. “Do I have any clue what’s actually going on here? Absolutely none. But there’s no question about the fibers: They are not just environmental contaminants.”

    And, also:

    Apparently the science that distinguishes these things is not understood by this group, and that’s fine.

    The big study/obsession over fibers is *not* fine, Jace. Something’s screwey, and it ain’t in Saint Louie. An alteration in the patients’ skin cell turnover rate (the morgies with no broken skin), whatever the simple cause behind it, is not being understood by you and your professor. Vulnerable patients aren’t contributing to any other sort of study, are they? You’re just concerned with their fibers?

    Hey, everyone…

    The following should probably go underneath the quack topic, but since we’re back on credentials (well, when are we “not”, though?)

    Citizens For Responsible Care and Research — A Human Rights Organization

    State Medical Board Orders Related to Research, Informed Consent, and FDA-Regulated Drugs & Medical Devices

    (See if you can spot a MRF board member, and have fun.)

    http://www.circare.org/pd/physicians.htm

    Everyone probably knows about this one. (No misconduct charges, on this one.):

    http://www.personalconsult.com/

  142. To Sarah Bione-Dunn,

    Mona Lisa!!! Nice pic, I got one just the same. I actually took it with my own camera. Apparently no one is meant to take photos of “the” Mona Lisa, but folks do anyway. You just don’t use a flash, its the flash that can destroy or damage the original.

    Anyway Sarah, What does that picture have to do with the link that London provided?

    I find that throwing that link in is rather unproductive to this situation.

    Would you tend to agree?

    If not, why did you post it then?

  143. Jace,

    How are you doing these days?

    I don’t want to be awful, or start an argument with you, but I just want to point out something to you if I may.

    I can not see how you coming to this blog site talking about, credentials and profession, like some other people, is really helping this situation.

    I am not a lab assistant, or scientist, but I sure can produce some real interesting stuff on fibers. ALL sorts of fibers Jace.

    You speak as though the Morgellons fibers are something of such a unique nature, and NO scientistt has a clue what they are?

    You are making yourself look very foolish. The possibilities in Science which have already been proven is totally amazing. Funny thing though, NO ONE in this world seems to get any healthier.

    Are you really focused on helping human health?

    OR are you just focused on furthering your own education in the “two faced” world of research, technology and science?

  144. To Sarah and Jace,

    Could you please take your “show and tell” and “I’m better THAN YOU talk”, some place else?

    other than this blog.

    You both are really NOT helping this situation.

    Thank you for considering this.

  145. Sarah, I apologize. You said bachelors in science, and I assumed you meant biology.

  146. This MRF board member violation is old, but, “credentials, credentials, credentials”. My, my, my, my, my. They’re in alphabetical order, and he’s at the very bottom of the list.

    http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/not93-177.html

  147. The fibers we analyzed were pulled out of a patient’s unbroken skin on her back are not “contaminants”. The sample we got was very low on the back and there was no unbroken skin or other lesions anywhere near that area. That to me is possibly something environmental that got into the patients body, but there is no way that these samples were from having an open wound and getting household dust in it. I was the one running the dermatoscope and I saw these with my own eyes. Does that clear it up for you? When we say they’re not environmental contaminants we mean that they aren’t something sent in a box, these are things that have been taken directly from a patients skin and are not something that just fell into a wound.

    To me “environmental” means something produced in the environment (external to the particular human body. Fiberglass splinters from a hot tub get get lodged under unborken skin and still be environmental.

  148. SBD said

    London,

    Thank you for sharing the link about genetic art.

    Here’s a link for you back, equally applicable:
    http://www.puzzlehouse.com/images/webpage/monalisa1000.jpg

    My mother recently travelled to the Mideast and brought me back a gram of real saffron. I was planning to make the traditional Spanish almond soup for Christmas, but the recipe calls for two THREADS of saffron.

    What do you make of that?!? THREADS!!!

    Saffron is mentioned in the Bible, you know. Clearly, this conspiracy has been a long time in the making!

    And your reference to the Mona Lisa is proof of that! Because .. well, it just is!

  149. You both are really NOT helping this situation.

    Yes, please, let’s get back to hearing all about Gillian.

    Thanks in advance.

  150. I believe that the outer layers of dead skin cells and sebum entrap all manner of small environmental fibers, whether the skin is broken or not. When researching the source of fibers in the patient, I consider the environmental fibers to be specimens, but it can also be said, when speaking of fibers entrapped in lesions, that the environmental fibers have contaminated the wound.

    Wow, Smileykins, that’s really something that you dug up on Dr. Ames, from the MRF. So he was using a galvanometer to diagnose allergies? It was unapproved by the FDA, and it appears that his license was revoked, then the action was suspended for 5 years, with a 5000 dollar fine and the restriction against his use of the device. Wow. It sounds typical for the MRF though, to hire people like that.

    Wow, again, on your second link. That really makes Dr. Schaller look like a quack, doesn’t it. In my opinion, that’s exactly what he is. Thanks for the expose’ on these two MRF members.

    Tall Cotton

  151. Morgies really have fibers in their skin. Lesions, no lesions, they’re there. I couldn’t agree more. Fibers are under their unbroken skin.

    From what I’d posted above, from Harvey:

    “Once I started taking these patients seriously, I saw the variety and number of unusual and unexpected skin occupants was real, they were unequivocally there.”

    Harvey said delusional parasitosis is a real disease, but some of the patients he’s seen aren’t hallucinating. Because the symptoms of the real disease match the description of the psychosomatic ailment, doctors often misdiagnose the cases, he said.

    See how he’s twisted that statement.

    And, from what Wymore has said:

    With cooperation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Wymore’s team is studying Bay Area patients and others from around the country. His first finding disputes the frequent diagnosis of delusions.

    “Pathologists and dermatologists and lab reports [said] that these were textile fibers appearing in the skin of the sufferers. Now that’s just not true, to be perfectly blunt about it,” says Prof. Wymore.

    Wymore says his tests rule out not only textile fibers, but also worms, insects, animal material and even human skin and hair. He says the filaments are not an external contamination.

    Instead, they are a substance that materializes somehow inside the body, apparent artifacts of something infectious. More results are expected soon. And Wymore says skin problems are not the worst symptoms.

    He says a neurotoxin or microorganism may disturb muscle control and memory.

    “The neurological effects are the much more severe, life altering and much more dangerous of the conditions,” explains Prof. Wymore.

    This month, Georgia began a statewide Morgellons registry. Prof. Wymore says he is about to begin a clinical trial and offers this to sufferers: “We know there’s something going on here. You’re not delusional.”

    Prof. Wymore has just released an open letter to doctors treating patients with Morgellons symptoms. It asks physicians to take it seriously, saying these patients are likely suffering from a still untreatable emerging disease.

    http://www.ktvu.com/news/9264350/detail.html

    Both of them, and the other “players” (as I call the “professionals”), are either stupid, manipulative, or under the delusion (take your pic), that the matchbox contents that patients with delusional parasitosis carry in to doctors have been scooped up off of the freakin floor, I suppose.

    Yes, that is what they have been saying, in so many words. Um-hmm, yes, they think THAT IS delusional parasitosis, but it doesn’t apply to THESE patients. Why? Well, the kooks have kept on saying that if doctors would only look with a magnifying lens at patients’ skin, they would see that THERE REALLY ARE THINGS THERE.

    No shit, doctor sherlocks. That’s DOP — environmental debris — contaminants, from the environment — caught inside the epidermal layer.

    DUH. It’s enough to make a preacher curse.

  152. Remember this?

    September 9, 2005

    Excerpt:

    There are 4 other areas of research that are ongoing or will be carried out during the upcoming months, and being carried out at laboratories in Oklahoma, California and Italy. These are:

    1) a more detailed spectroscopic and microscopic analysis of the Morgellons fibers

    2) assaying of material from Morgellons patients for modified amino acid neurotoxins

    3) chemical analysis of the Morgellons fibers to determine the chemical composition and presence of unusual organic compounds and heavy metals

    4) analysis of tissue samples at the nano-molecular level to screen for foreign material that could be involved in Morgellons disease.

    This research briefing is not meant to be overly interpreted or viewed in any way as conclusive. It is an interim report on the status of the research and nothing more. When there is firm, incontrovertible data, it will be presented as such. For now, this is to let Morgellons patients, family, friends and health-care providers know that there is organized, systematic research being performed and where the research stands.

    (Ooops, I think I might be “overly interpreting” it.)

  153. I know the topic is “morgellons disease”, but…

    I saw this on a blog. New lyme test. Very interesting.

    http://doctorrw.blogspot.com/2006/12/lyme-disease-activism-versus-science.html

    Drs. Raphael Stricker and Edward Winger recently isolated a test which so far has proved to be a good indicator of patients’ B. burgdorferi bacteria load, the CD-57 NK test.

    “Just as AIDS patients have always held great store in their CD4 T-cell count, Lyme patients now have a fairly reliable marker of the status of their illness,” notes Ginger Savely, RN.

    More research into the CD-57 test is needed, as it is not yet recognized by the mainstream, but it may prove to be the “reliable objective measures” needed to prove the necessity of ongoing antibiotic treatment for Lyme disease.

    New Lyme Disease Guidelines Spark Showdown

    Expert panel says they’re based on science, but foes say patients will suffer

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_41108.html

  154. Yeah, they’re creating MRSA as we speak, and getting rich doing it. With 900 patients, like Dr. Stricker claims he has, at 500 dollars a pop, which was reported on lymebusters, that would bring in almost half a million dollars every time he went through the patient roster. Is that why he’s trying to promote the idea of chronic lyme disease? Go figure. And now, with the new test proceedure, he can get Bowen’s and Igenex’s fee to boot. It looks like quite a racket to me.

    TC

  155. And honestly, I would like to know why all of you are SO sure that everyone has fibers in open lesions. Between my 5 kids, my husband and myself with multiple wounds that *should* by your statements have all kinds of “environmental contaminant”, we have never seen anything even remotely like that in any of their lesions. My youngest has very bad problems with eczema and many bouts of open sores and I have never found anything in any of them.

    I find that curious. My own experiments seemed to show that fibers are everywhere. Fibers seem to be on every surface in my house. Do I just have a dusty house?

    A fiber, in my “fibers are everywhere” hypothesis, is not limited to visible fibers, but includes those only visible under a microscope, generally being those under 2mm long. When you say you don’t find anything, what are you looking at, and with what?

    Looking at the issue from another angle – you obviously get a lot of samples sent to you. What percentage of samples sent to you would you consider “genuine” Morgellons fibers?

    I ask this because people who work in fields that bring them into contact with those suffering from DOP (entymologists, parasitologists) also get a lot of samples sent to them. They all report that a very large percentage (as must as 100%) of the samples sent to them contain nothing suspicious. If your percentages differ significantly, then maybe there is some validity to that 8263 number on morgellons.org.

    I suspect however, that you are really only talking about a few interesting fibers from a few star patients. 99% of the stuff sent to you is dust, lint, scabs and hair.

    I’m not attacking you Jace, you don’t make the decisions. I’m “attacking” Wymore, who says “you are not delusional”, when all the evidence indicates that a significant percentage of the people he is talking to actually are delusional.

    In real life, no one criticizes me. They are skeptical, which I understand because I would be too, but never critical.

    Perhaps you understand criticism as something irredeamably negative? Criticism is not an attack, it’s pointing out what you think is incorrect, or not good. The word critic comes from the Greek κριτικός, kritikós – one who discerns, which itself arises from the Ancient Greek word κριτής, krités, meaning a person who offers reasoned judgement or analysis, value judgement, interpretation, or observation. [Wikipedia]

    If you wish to proceed in your profession, you should seek out criticism at every turn. It is the fire that will temper your science.

  156. Smileykins,

    You never cease to amaze me. This is from one of the links your provided.

    http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-files/not93-177.html

    Raphael B. Stricker, M.D., University of California at San Francisco.

    An investigation conducted by the University found that Dr. Stricker

    falsified data for a manuscript and a PHS-supported publication

    reporting research on AIDS. In the manuscript, Dr. Stricker

    selectively suppressed data that did not support his hypothesis, and

    reported consistently positive data whereas only one of four

    experiments had produced positive results.

    Smileykins, you’re quite a detective. Thanks for the link.

    Tall Cotton

  157. hi people, saw this today, lets hear you hyenas rip it apart

    First, I want to respond to a few things on the forum and initially would like to voice my objection to the secrecy. I honestly believe that people have nothing to fear. By hiding behind false names one is forced to question the veracity and integrity. Like it or not, people will frequently base their opinion on the persons track record and scientific background. Medical science tends to exist in a framework of free interaction with secrecy being viewed as a cover of something less than pleasant.

    Now having voiced my peeve, I wanted to go on to a critical area, and that is treatment. Regardless of theory, everyone I know with this horrid disease is searching for cure or approaches which will improve the disabling and frustrating disease.

    In this context, we often learn a great deal by seeing what is effective treatment and from that gain a better idea, albeit incomplete, of what we are treating.

    We have had remarkable and consistent success based on a protocol which is freely available. Essentially we treat the bacterial infection with Septra and Avelox (moxifloxacan). We have observed that the lesions heal rapidly in most cases. However, there clearly is a parasitic component present. Based on numerous clinical observations we initiated treatment with Biltricide (praziquantel) on a weekly basis with intermittent doses of Stromectol (ivermectin).

    For the insect infestations, we have been using Diatomaceous Earth as a pack. In addition we are very cautious in treatment of the eyes because we have seen cases of blindness. Thus we use Ophthalmic drops and in severe and selected cases we also use Diflucan.

    We have had remarkable success with every patient. Our team has also cultured the bacteria Stenotrophomonas Maltophilia. It is certainly possible that the organism has been genetically modified, however, it almost always responds to the antibiotic combination.

    We are identifying the worm that is involved but are yet to have a definitive diagnosis. But this has not stopped us from treating the condition with the best available knowledge we have.

    We welcome scientific discourse and dislike shadowy secrecy.

    Our desire is to work together to gain as much knowledge as possible to eradicate the disease.

    I am convinced there is absolutely nothing to fear except for idiosyncratic paranoid ideation.

    So basically guys, I’m out in the open. Let’s all work together to stop the tremendous suffering.

    Sincerely,
    George R. Schwartz, MD

  158. now, if we are talking fibres, well, they seem to lurk under the lesion and come out with a corrugated crinkle in them.
    Then they twist and gyrate, a bit like tc in his rut, i guess.

    Umm what else?
    Why dont you get a life u three?
    I noticed someone else labelling you obsessive.
    I second that.

    Byeeeeee

  159. Bit more on Stricker. I wonder if it’s things like this that force people towards the fringe as a way of making money.

    http://www.ori.hhs.gov/documents/newsletters/vol1_no2.pdf

    The second case scheduled to be heard by the DAB involved
    Raphael B. Stricker, M.D., an individual that a University of
    California investigation at San Francisco and ORI found to have
    falsified and misrepresented data in a manuscript submitted to
    the Journal of Immunology, an article published in the New
    England Journal of Medicine, and a grant application submitted to
    the National Institutes of Health. The ORI proposed that Dr.
    Stricker be debarred for a three-year period. On March 11, 1993,
    Dr. Stricker and the ORI entered a Voluntary Exclusion and
    Settlement Agreement. Under the terms of the agreement, Dr.
    Stricker agreed to exclude himself from receipt of any Federal
    grants and contracts for a three-year period beginning April 1,
    1993. Furthermore, Dr. Stricker agreed voluntarily to exclude
    himself from serving on any U.S. Public Health Service Advisory
    Committees, Boards and/or peer review committees for the same
    three-year period. These exclusions are effectively the same as
    the administrative actions that ORI proposed. Based on this
    agreement, Dr. Stricker withdrew his appeal for a hearing before
    the DAB.

  160. Oozingpus, that post from Schwartz is over a year old. He’s changed his theories since then, so no real need to critique this one.

  161. Excuse me for getting “outside of the box” a little.

    positive vs. negative — light vs. dark — good vs. evil
    truths vs. lies — peace vs. turmoil — acceptance vs. resistance
    love vs. hate — happy vs. sad

    It’s not rocket science. Charlatans provide services to people who feel they need them, and such people are blind to the trap that they’re in. Lyme disease has more differential diagnoses than you can wag a lamb’s tail to, just like “morgellons disease”. It sucks to feel like crap all the time. You either get on with it, or break out the violin playing. If a person refuses to ADAPT, there’s always someone there to take their money and tell them they know just how they feel. Especially when they’re the ones promoting the lies for the reasons such people feel as they do.

    That link I provided up above, including the patient’s account of what that quack did, prior to his signing on with MRF, was unreal. If more people who didn’t “need” quacks went to them, we could wipe them out. Oh, but their alternative methods provide a much needed service, to some, though. Am I knocking all complementary forms of medicine? No. I’m knocking bull-shitters. Bull-shitters who prey on people. Freakin’ sicko jerks.

    The world was told what to expect in the future from antibiotic abuse, years ago, as mainstream medicine had to conform to new prescribing guidelines. Lymies & morgies are helping, singlehandedly, to actually create the plague, they all warn us about, in a real sense, in my very strong opinion. Stricker & Savely are way out of control, and even boast about it.

    Okay, I needed to blow off some steam. I’ll get back inside my box, now.

  162. Schwartz is more your back-alley type quack.

  163. No, I haven’t shut the lid on my box, yet. I’m sorry. I feel the need to say this. Morgie fibers are said to be “sprouting”, and to be “growing” in patients’ skin.

    Sprout: To begin to grow; give off shoots or buds. To emerge and develop rapidly

    Grow: To be capable of growth; thrive. To increase in size; develop

    Time-lapse photography: A technique that photographs a naturally slow process, such as plant growth, on movie film at intervals, so that continuous projection of the frames gives an accelerated view of the process.

    They’re alive!! They’re alive!! So, something is alive, and growing, that withstands a helluva lot of heat. Name that fiber.

  164. You know I’m trying hard to shut my lid, but I get like this sometimes. I’m very mellow, actually, but I get worked up feeling bad for others, when I see things so wrong. This “morgellons” thing is so wrong, as well as the lyme issue.

    But, what these people have bought into (and how it’s happened), being under false belief that there is a mysterious pathogen lurking inside of them will have no end. If they got the proper treatment from REAL doctors, for their REAL conditions, they’d all live better. We’d all benefit in the long run.

    For instance, in my opinion, if someone has rheumatoid arthritis, and they “think” they have it because of “chronic lyme disease”, they would fare better to see a certified rheumatologist and treat their rheumatoid arthritis. The antibiotic situation really has me in a tizzy. The FDA can’t regulate the internet, though. These people don’t even seem to care about counterfeit drugs, as long as they get them. It’s antibiotic addiction.

    And, also, I have never appreciated the usage of the words, “self-diagnose” when it comes to this topic of “morgellons disease”. Self-diagnosis is when one looks into their symptoms and uses the reality-based process of elimination. Even that is a bad thing for some people who imagine every little ache and pain to be something serious, though. But, like I always say, patients need doctor communication skills, and if they refuse to learn them, or are unable to express themselves adequately, they need someone who has a level head, who can do it for them. It doesn’t appear that is an option for many.

    They have turned against evidence based medicine, and are having that reinforced by the (oh, I feel like stealing a term), “evil-doers” (haha, oh I’m sorry), with the idea planted inside their heads that “cures need to be demanded and on the spot, now!”. That is so far-out-there, it is SICKENING. If these patients could cross their minds over into reality and use their obsessive reading skills to look at something beneficial….well, what am I saying, though….they have proven that is impossible.

  165. Oozingpus,

    Hello Al. I’ve noticed you’ve been posting regularly with the schizos on the fiber disease thread at biology online. Why do you use the word, “lurk”, regarding the fibers? You know, or should know, that the fibers aren’t capable of “lurking”. You’d come out crinkled, vibrating, and gyrating too, if you had been packed inside a hair follicle. You might even be a little bit mutated. You ought to know by now that labels don’t affect us one iota. We aren’t Morgies, so we know exactly who and what we are, and are not. We don’t judge ourselves based on what you or anyone else thinks. Why did you change your name, Al? Good luck with your arm.

    Tall Cotton

  166. Michael,

    I feel that they were too lenient with both Dr. Stricker and Dr. Ames. I think that these doctors illegal activities inticate that they were already operating, or attempting to operate, in the fringe, or an area just a bad. Their punishment doesn’t seem to have deterred them from fringe, either. It looks like Dr. Stricker has a helluva racket going on, along with Nurse Savely. I think their indiscriminate use of antibiotics is putting us all at risk.

    Tall Cotton

  167. oh please elucidate for us, Michael you ole fox…
    bring us up to date on his current work

  168. Jace:

    I actually don’t feel inferior to anyone, why should I when my IQ is in the top 5-10% in the world? So, who exactly am I supposed to feel inferior to? Maybe Einstein or Franklin, but definitely not one of you. And I didn’t say *I* felt stupid, I said you call me stupid. Big difference.

    Oh my, you dog on me for having a bachelor’s degree, and say those don’t matter… but your IQ test does. IQ test is 5-10% in the world? What IQ test is used around the world that you are able to determine that little fact? I am anxiously awaiting this answer.

    IQ test say nothing about applicability about knowledge, my dear. So while you may be able to answer questions right and put a block puzzle in order, application, I feel, is key.

    Furthermore, IQ tests have been used to prove everything from the inferiority of minorities to the superiority of men. So, your super-dee-dooper IQ score means nothing to me.

  169. Gillian Says:

    Anyway Sarah, What does that picture have to do with the link that London provided?
    I find that throwing that link in is rather unproductive to this situation.
    Would you tend to agree?
    If not, why did you post it then?

    Sarah Replies:
    Gillian, your powers of deduction are shining. You got my point entirely, but missed the sarcasm. I was making a point that London’s link was as arbitrary and pointless as my link to the Mona Lisa. (I saw it too… it was amazing.)

    Why did I post it then, when it was pointless? I ask the same of anyone who, say, posts long lists of irrelevant links without bothering to read them, much less find their applicability to the conversation. What do you think a person who engages in those behaviors would answer?

  170. Admin note:

    If you want to quote someone, then enclose their quote in <blockquote> and </blockquote>. For example

    Forrest said <blockquote> Stupid is like a box of chocolates</blockquote>

    Will turn into

    Forrest said

    Stupid is like a box of chocolates

    Other tags can be used, see the list marked “XHTML: You can use these tags”, above the comment box as you type a comment.

  171. I’ve just skimmed over some pages that, I think, have a few quality things mentioned on them. For any morgellons’ believer that is receptive to it, I’m offering the links below. If you pass it by, or don’t understand where I’m coming from, please believe that neither I, nor anyone else, is against any of you. We’re against the damage being done in your lives that you, yourselves, as a group, have made public. I do know that it’s easier said than done, but, for some, (not all), if you knew that you had the power to find a way out, you could.

    Dr, Phil says:

    When you choose the behavior, you choose the consequences

    Dr. Phil’s Ten Life Laws

    http://www.drphil.com/articles/article/44

    I found a crash course on critical thinking, and I also saw several other things that I liked on arachnoid.com
    They could be viewed in someone else’s mind, quite differently, though.

    http://vps.arachnoid.com/lutusp/crashcourse.html

    Being humans, we all experience the human condition. Some of us are healthy, some of us are sick. Some of us are weak, some of us are strong. Nobody is better than anyone else, and a title attached to a person’s name doesn’t elevate one single human above another. (Well, except for a judge, but that’s not what I’m getting at.) Experiences shape who we are, and no one has a right to act like they belong on the planet more than anybody else. And, we have to know ourselves, and respect ourselves. Our spirits are who we are, not these broken bodies we’re in. But, when spirits are broken, it’s crucial to mend them. Keeping company with other broken spirits, serves remaining in a state of broken-ness, leading to more misery. We should lean on each other, but not drag each other further into a pit of despair, until it’s full of people suffocating, thinking they have no way out.

    We know some morgie people have schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, BDD, ADD/ADHD, OCD, maybe even DID, alcohol or drug abuse/addiction, and a mix of personality disorders. All appear to have anxiety, and all appear have depression. I have depression. Lots of people do. I tried treating it, unsuccessfully, for years. I’ve practiced redirecting my thoughts, and practice makes perfect. I would prefer a simple, easy, fix, though. I also have ADD. That causes me no problem, either. I’m on no medication, of any sort, although I wish I were.

    We know there is no way to change a person who is having delusions. We’re not supposed to attempt talking someone out of them, and we’re not supposed to go along with them. That leaves everyone no options. I feel so sorry for anyone living in that type of situation — the person, as well as everyone forced into choosing ways of trying to cope with them, since many morgies have relationship difficulties. Some have no choice but to go along with it, some have to make gut-wrenchingly heartbreaking decisions for their loved ones, and some eventually have to give up, and leave. Some people develop the same delusion, of course. It’s not good, no matter what route is taken, and doctors really do know what they are talking about, in how to treat delusional parasitosis.

  172. Sarah said:

    Why did I post it then, when it was pointless? I ask the same of anyone who, say, posts long lists of irrelevant links without bothering to read them, much less find their applicability to the conversation. What do you think a person who engages in those behaviors would answer?

    Pointless.

    Sarah said:

    Gillian, your powers of deduction are shining. You got my point entirely, but missed the sarcasm. I was making a point that London’s link was as arbitrary and pointless as my link to the Mona Lisa. (I saw it too… it was amazing.)

    I did actually see the sarcasm Sarah, and thought it was funny also. I was rather bound up in knots when I wrote that reply to you. My fault, I got a bit defensive.

  173. Smileykins – Great post #173! thank you.

  174. Oh my, you dog on me for having a bachelor’s degree, and say those don’t matter… but your IQ test does. IQ test is 5-10% in the world? What IQ test is used around the world that you are able to determine that little fact? I am anxiously awaiting this answer.

    You are very right Sarah. I was acting like a jerk and I apologize. As soon as I read what I wrote I was disgusted by my words. I should have never even thought that, much less written it. I would take it back if I could, but since I can’t I will just say I’m sorry to everyone for being a hypocrite above.

  175. Though I dislike Mr. Phil (who was stripped of his therapist’s license for violating ethics laws), those are some good common sense ideas. Thanks, Smiley.

  176. Hey Jace, Happy Holidays. Hope all is well.

    Michael,

    LIFE is like a box of chocolates; you never know which one you will get

    . Must have been a sort of Freudian slip, eh? Ya know, concerning the company you keep here.

    Hope all is well.

    A

  177. Hi Aherah, I was mixing my forrestephors, trying to make a vauge point.

  178. S Bione-Dunn Says:
    December 19th, 2006 at 11:25 am
    Though I dislike Mr. Phil (who was stripped of his therapist’s license for violating ethics laws), those are some good common sense ideas. Thanks, Smiley.

    Whoa – I didn’t know he lost his license. I like him, straight talker and a funny man too.

    I love those rules. I have read them 3 times already, and I know I am going to be reading them another 3 times again today.

    I had an idea before, I thought maybe I could print up the rule list on some nice paper, and pop it in with my family’s christmas presents??

    Will think on that one. Going christmas shopping on Sat. anyway. Last minute rush I know. Me and Tone are in and out, we know what we want and “charge” like two bulls, “ok you that way, me that way, back in 10 minutes, then we move on to the next shop, yep,ok lets go!!”

    Sarah,

    I started watching this movie video, and it made me think of your “mona lisa” post.
    I would like to give you one more “nonsensical” link if I may, just for a giggle!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szbFNPNU2Ok

  179. I just discovered Morgellons today through a Web search for resources on compulsive skin picking. I’m fascinated by this topic!

    Of course, I feel horrible for the people who are suffering. I suffer from an autoimmune disorder (Graves’ disease), and was dismissed by a dozen doctors with “anxiety disorder” and even “hypochondriasis” before a nurse practitioner had the good sense to give me a simple thyroid test. There’s so much confusion and argument about the cause and treatment of autoimmune disorders (even amongst sufferers) that I truly feel for anyone who’s experiencing their own struggle to have their illness taken seriously and to get relief.

    That being said, I am highly skeptical of the existence of this illness – not because I believe people aren’t suffering, but simply because of the lack of evidence. When I read the publications on the MRF Web site, particularly the paper written for the AJCD, I was shocked at the lack of empirical evidence and abundance of anecdotal “evidence”. It reads like no other medical paper I’ve read. I wanted facts and figures – X number of patients presenting X, Y and Z symptoms were tested, observed and treated. Here are the results. Instead, it – and the media stories I’ve seen today – are replete with second-hand stories and accounts by patients. No pathology or lab tests, no medical or psychological histories, nothing. Drawing connections to other illnesses, such as Lyme disease, or mapping out “infection hotspots” throughout the country are rendered meaningless if there is no scientific data to back up those assertions.

    I’m also really surprised at the lack of curiosity about this condition within the medical community – or the lack of initiative on the part of the MRF to involve the medical community in researching and diagnosing this condition. Surely there has to be a medical doctor or researcher (not an assistant professor) who has the interest in finding out the science behind these claims!

    There’s another personal reason why I’m interested in this. As I said at the start, I found Morgellons today because I was searching for resources about compulsive skin picking – something I only recently discovered that I, my sister and my mother all suffer from. The irrational urge to pick at our faces and pull out stray hairs can be a compulsion that lasts hours at a time. Why would three intelligent, college-educated women find soothing comfort in picking their otherwise attractive faces apart? Because we have a condition that doctors have only recently started to take seriously. I’m fortunate to have found relief through a combination of Lexapro, therapy and a great dermatologist. 10 years ago I might not have been as lucky. Thank goodness for advances in medicine.

    For anyone who is suffering from Morgellons – whatever it is – whether it’s an actual biological disorder, psychological in nature, or a combination of the two, I really do hope you find relief. But that’s not going to happen until the people who are championing this cause are serious about the research and work to present some real evidence within the greater medical community.

  180. Smileykins – I’ve totally connected with your posts on here. When I read today that the MRF folks are incouraging use of broad-spectrum antibiotics, my jaw dropped. This just doesn’t make sense. Don’t antibiotics only work on bacterial infections? I could have sworn that I’ve seen the condition described by various people in the Morgellons community as a parasitic infestation, or the production of otherwise benign fibrous substances (the only evidence being a handful of pictures of fibrous substances, of course).

    So not only do the people at the Morgellons Foundation not know what causes this condition, or what the nature of the condition is (animal, vegetable, parasite) – but they’re getting people to lower their already possibly fragile immune systems by taking antibiotics?

    Fantastic. The perfect example of the blind leading the blind if I’ve ever seen it. I want to become a Morgellons advocate now – if for no reason than to assist the people who are suffering get real help from people who actually know what the hell they’re doing!

  181. Amanda, your take on the subject seems very reasonable. Thanks for sharing your account of compulsive skin picking – I think many people who think they have Morgellons actually suffer in part from something similar, or did at one point.

    You asked “I’m also really surprised at the lack of curiosity about this condition within the medical community”. Well, I think the medical community recognizes that the actual medical and psychological condition here are areally nothing new. What is new is the amplification of certain aspects via the internet – that is certainly of interest, and may be something the CDC discusses in their report.

  182. Hi Amanda,

    There does appear to be a genetic component to skin-picking; specifically on chromosome 14. Are you also very good with jigsaw puzzles? ;)

  183. They need real help for what really ails them, but they forsake their doctors and forgo their needed medication. They don’t need help for a non-existant disease. They need good psychiatrists and a good gp, and a willingness to follow their instructions.

    TC

  184. Amanda said:
    I could have sworn that I’ve seen the condition described by various people in the Morgellons community as a parasitic infestation, or the production of otherwise benign fibrous substances (the only evidence being a handful of pictures of fibrous substances, of course).

    Amanda, that is the danger of the internet, misinformation. The people in the Morgellons community suffer a varied range of symptoms, and also suffer different diseases and illnesses. Since you are now feeling so much better on Lexapro, and it agrees with you, I think you would agree with me about the dangers to human health with misinformation on the internet.

  185. You’re welcome, Gillian and Sarah.

    Hi, Amanda. Please watch your step, since you just heard of “morgellons disease” yesterday. Here are some things you might want to attempt to explain to the morgie people, too. Brace yourself, (real good & hard), and good luck. Keep us posted. And, hang on, it’s an extremely bad trip.

    Internet Fraud

    The Internet offers a global marketplace for consumers and businesses. But crooks also recognize the potentials of cyberspace. The same scams that have been conducted by mail and phone can now be found on the World Wide Web and in email, and new cyberscams are emerging. It’s sometimes hard to tell the difference between reputable online sellers and criminals who use the Internet to rob people. You can protect yourself by learning how to recognize the danger signs of fraud. If you are a victim or attempted victim of Internet fraud, it’s important to report the scam quickly so that law enforcement agencies can shut the fraudulent operations down.

    HEALTH FRAUD IS DANGEROUS

    Fraudulent products are not properly tested and may harm you – they could even kill you. Fraudulent products or treatments waste your money, and health insurance usually doesn’t pay for them.

    If you use products or treatments that don’t work, you may delay getting proper care and your illness may get worse. There are legitimate treatments that extend and improve the quality of life for people living with Chronic Disease.

    Buying Medicines and Medical Products Online

    http://www.fda.gov/oc/buyonline/default.htm

    Fraudulent promoters also are offering dietary supplements, like colloidal silver, zinc mineral water and oregano oil, as treatments for contamination from biological agents. The FTC is not aware of any scientific basis for these self-treatment alternatives.

    For consumers who are worried about preventing, detecting or treating biological or chemical threats, the FTC suggests that you:

    * Consult your physician immediately if you believe you have been exposed to any biological or chemical agent.

    * Cut claims down to size. When you see claims that a product can, say, “eliminate all pathogens in the human body in six minutes or less,” it’s time for a reality check. If any product really did that, wouldn’t you have heard it first on the news – not in an ad?

    * Check out your source. Appearances can be deceiving. Many fraudulent businesses either use names that sound like established legitimate organizations or sell products that imitate respected, well-known brands. How can you know if a business is legitimate? It can be tricky. Ask questions, do some research and check with local consumer protection agencies.

    The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them.

    http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/biothrtalrt.htm

    “Operation Cure.All”

    The Federal Trade Commission and Food and Drug Administration targets false and unsubstantiated health claims on the internet through Operation Cure.All, a law enforcement and consumer education campaign. In several cases companies selling rife machines, zappers, colloidal silver, black walnut tincture, wormwood tincture, cloves tinture, various dietary supplements, and other goofy items, have been successfully prosecuted for advertising false and unsubstantiated health and safety claims on the web.

    http://www.ftc.gov/healthclaims/

    A list of some can be found here, on California’s Health Fraud Task Force’s Site:

    Health Fraud – Wall of Shame

    http://healthfraud.org/ca/aidsfraud/wallofshame.htm

    (I’m just kidding, Amanda. They aren’t giving anything up, or going to go to anyone who can help them.)

  186. Guess who said this…..

    I’ve noticed you’ve been posting regularly with the schizos on the fiber disease thread at biology online…..

    No You Didn’t…TC you’re so damn mean. I really need to kill ya but you just make me laugh too much.

    Hey, seriously re: schitzophrenia- I thought it was inherited. I remember learning in college that if both your parents had this then you would 100% have this also/ and if one of your parents had this you would stand a 50% chance of getting it.

    But my college days were well over with when nanotechnology
    and their RNA chemical-reacting, porhyrin-sucking molecules were
    invented.

    And TC, I know I should get on arthritis medication but I’m afraid it my mix with all the other chemicals (phosphorous, carbon black, arsenic, lead, zinc coated whiskers, blah, blah….then I would just explode sooner….(Hey, that does not sound too bad does it) Well, if that be the case then I prefer more fun drugs….got any?

    oh, oh, oh, Attn: Tall, Smiley, Michael: Would you guys know the current laws on human research testing and informed consent or human consent?
    Also, would you know which organization supercedes them all?
    The NIH is over the NSF right? If so, who oversees them? A board?

    Thank you if you can answer that…

    London

  187. Dear Sara,

    Sorry you did not see my point in my hyperlink, or anypoint for all that it matters. I really am. Here, maybe this will help:

    http://www.me.gatech.edu/me/research/mems.htm

    and this too-even has picture…..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEMS

    London

  188. Hi there, London. The United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is our principal agency for protecting the health of all Americans and providing essential human services, especially for those who are least able to help themselves. There are a lot of programs and agencies under HHS, working for the good of us all, including the NIH, the CDC, and the FDA, just to name a few.

    There are so many regulatory bodies, but, as I understand it, under HHS, the NIH’s Office of Human Subjects Research (OHSR) monitors clinical studies utilizing human subjects and/or human derived materials to assure compliance with federal, state and institutional regulations and policies to protect not only research subjects, but the institution, and the research team, as well. In chapter 6 of their Institutional Review Board (IRB) Guidebook, Special Classes of Subjects:

    Cognitively Impaired: Having either a psychiatric disorder (e.g., psychosis, neurosis, personality or behavior disorders), an organic impairment (e.g., dementia) or a developmental disorder (e.g., mental retardation) that affects cognitive or emotional functions to the extent that capacity for judgment and reasoning is significantly diminished. Others, including persons under the influence of or dependent on drugs or alcohol, those suffering from degenerative diseases affecting the brain, terminally ill patients, and persons with severely disabling physical handicaps, may also be compromised in their ability to make decisions in their best interests.

    Applicable Laws and Regulations

    IRBs should be aware of any applicable law in their state, particularly those relating to consent by family members on behalf of persons incapable of consenting on their own. Note that consent to participation in research may differ from consent to medical treatment. In addition, it should be noted that some federal agencies (including components of the Department of Defense) prohibit the participation of mentally disabled persons in research conducted under their auspices.

    Thanks for asking that London. I learned some new things, that I may not have, otherwise. I think most of what you need to know can be located right here, after I narrowed things down quite a bit.

    http://ohsr.od.nih.gov/sitemap.html

    These may be of additional interest to you, as well, though, so I’m going to go ahead and list a few other links.

    http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2006/606_bioresearch.html

    http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/info/whatis

    http://www.ahrq.gov/

    Keep on rockin’, london gal.

  189. london,

    Some people are genetically predisposed to the development of schizophrenia. The general population has a 1 percent chance, but if a parent has it, that chance is increased to 10 percent. A monozygotic twin has a 50 percent chance of developing it, if the other identical twin has it. There is no single known cause of schizophrenia, but it is believed that it is caused by an imbalance in the brain chemistry.

    On another matter…

    I think it would be very wise to see a rheumatologist and see if he will put you on medication for your rheumatoid arthritis. You need to get your mind off of arshenic, carbon black, Phosphorus, lead, and zink coated whiskers, and get your arthritis treated. Time is of an essence.

    Tall Cotton

  190. London said:

    But my college days were well over with when nanotechnology
    and their RNA chemical-reacting, porhyrin-sucking molecules were
    invented.

    You may like to have a look at these London…

    http://www.human-evolution.org/linksnano.php
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanotechnology

    This link will help also, air pollution and stuff..

    http://www.me.umn.edu/research/undergradresearch/researchop.shtml

    A little bit of reading on “ET”..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SETI
    http://mind.sourceforge.net/theology.html
    http://lnfm1.sai.msu.ru/SETI/eng/articles/sakharov.html

  191. Smileykins, interesting links. Sorry I can’t get into having a good read of those today. I am too fogged in the head. The bush fire smoke is a little better today, but it is certainly still noticeable in the air.

    I dunno about anyone else here, but I can’t remember signing up for any “human research study”?? anyone else??

    I wouldn’t be that dumb, would I?? Hey London, you ever signed up for anything like human research??

    At least things are nice and quiet on the home front. Tony is doing good. He is taking the Naltrexone (sp?) for alcohol withdrawal programme. Funny thing though; I can’t seem to keep my eyes open when I’m around him???

  192. To anyone who can’t problem solve, by distinguishing relevant facts from nonsensical things that have nothing to do with anything (or if they DO, tell us HOW, in your OWN words) — While schizophrenia is a rare condition, schizophrenia is not rare, and it’s estimated are that 1 in 100 people in the United States may have the disorder.

    Symptoms vary from person to person and many early signs are not cause enough to suspect schizophrenia. Many parents and family members of people with schizophrenia report knowing early on that something was not right with their loved one. Unusual behavior can stem from a number of causes, but behavior that is repeatedly out of the ordinary and persistent might be a sign of mental difficulty. Some of the common warning signs include:

    * Sleep problems
    * Social isolation
    * Hyperactivity or inactivity
    * Inability to concentrate
    * Hostility
    * Paranoia
    * Unusual emotional reactions
    * Deterioration in personal hygiene
    * Unusual sensitivity

    Developmental neurobiologists funded by the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) have found that schizophrenia may be a developmental disorder resulting when neurons form inappropriate connections during fetal development. These errors may lie dormant until puberty, when changes in the brain that occur normally during this critical stage of maturation interact adversely with the faulty connections. This research has spurred efforts to identify prenatal factors that may have some bearing on the apparent developmental abnormality.

    In other studies, investigators using brain-imaging techniques have found evidence of early biochemical changes that may precede the onset of disease symptoms, prompting examination of the neural circuits that are most likely to be involved in producing those symptoms. Scientists working at the molecular level, meanwhile, are exploring the genetic basis for abnormalities in brain development and in the neurotransmitter systems regulating brain function.

    Genetic research is ongoing, but I would sure look into learning about schizoprhenia, if I were scared that I had “morgellons disease”, and thought it was what was causing all my problems. There is no “morgellons disease”, but not everyone who believes in it exhibits signs of schizophrenia. People who believe in it, all seem to have quite a mixed bag of things, physical, and mental. Until one gets their minds straightened out, as they should know, is worth trying, they won’t start living better.

  193. I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to say that only genetic research into schizophrenia, is ongoing. It sticks in my mind, from when I was a member on LB message board, how so many were against genetic research, at the time. Morgies have gone way, way past that, now. Cliff & the quacks are getting them to, too. I shouldn’t single him out, maybe, but I’ve watched it unfold, and know what I’ve seen.

  194. Gilian said:

    At least things are nice and quiet on the home front. Tony is doing good. He is taking the Naltrexone (sp?) for alcohol withdrawal programme. Funny thing though; I can’t seem to keep my eyes open when I’m around him???

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEu7vEh_-xc

  195. This is actually a “nonsensical” link, but I thought you might all enjoy a laugh.
    I grew up watching this show on TV….
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZ2mJPSccvo

  196. I don’t know what I was saying in that comment, I was distracted and shouldn’t have come back and said # 195. Please delete, if you don’t mind. Thank you, Michael.

  197. just beautiful…

  198. We have no interest in leading a chain of mental slaves to market

    (That may not mean that the way it came out. Why it came out, is another story.)

  199. I’m cracking up laughing so hard, because it’s ironic that I’m sounding about like I have schizophrenia. I actually have a lot of pain, and just can’t seem to type things right (more than usual).

    Correction to what I said above: That may not be meant the way it came out…..

    Smileykins is goofy. I know, so sorry.

  200. Smileykins said:

    Keep on rockin’, london gal.

    London lady, I found this for you, because I’ve missed ya!!

    It has some of your favourite words, wireless, silicon, space, electrons, magnetic…

    http://nanotechwire.com/news.asp?nid=3435

    Happy reading.

  201. I’m not laughing now. Outrage has distracted me from pain, LONDON.

    How conniving of you. You asked for help with the current laws on human research testing and informed consent. I posted information thinking that it would calm you down if you saw the facts of the matter, because too many morgie people think on such a delusional level that they believe they can call someone up, or post anywhere on the internet “Here I am Dan Rutz, or doctor so and so, tell me where to show up and I’ll be there for you to study”.

    I’d said, before, that you have never really impressed me as a morgie, and that you always appeared to be playing a very sick game with people. It’s because I’ve never noticed you misinterpreting others’ intentions and flying off the handle in the familiar way so many others do. You don’t even take offense when a dozen people go ballistic on you all at once.

    How dare you take selected things from that information and misrepresent it to others on the fiber disease message board. You suckered me into it just to misrepresent things to those poor people. Explain yourself.

    Here’s a tiny excerpt:

    Use of human subjects to develop/test instruments, materials, devices, or objects.

    and you added…

    - funny, i don;t remember being asked……a-holes

    What? You were in that study??? The hell you were. You know that imagining studies require those methods that were in that clinical trial. Even a lot of the vulnerable people see through your game, but not the worst ones. You are playing a very sick and twisted game.

  202. I don’t like being suckered and used, London. Morgie people can’t help it. Look up there at what I put in blockquotes earlier. You know the flying high rant that came from. Morgie people are led right into the traps, set for them, purposefully, to assist filling the bank accounts of charlatans. Morgies have established, beyond any trace of doubt, how confused and desperate they are. They’re the most perfect prey there is for ever-increasing health fraud, as well as for sick people, in general, like you,to play around with. Quacks glean those message boards, too, for ideas. Look at the record so far, and who’s capitalizing on that, pretending they have found out what is really going on, and can treat it, or even cure it. People need a real doctor and they need to treat their real illnesses. Since the people who think they have it want to file suits against so many people, without even knowing who, what, when, where, how, or why, even, a good place to start is with the quacks and the products being sold to treat something that doesn’t exist. Tell them London, and stop messing with them. It isn’t a game.

  203. London,

    Thanks for the links. I didn’t read them. It’s your responsibility to read, analyze and synthesize the information and then include the links as references. When you do that, I’ll read your post.

    I look forward to your post. I hope it’s at least as entertaining as Southcity’s myco-bacterias, or whatever that was all about.

  204. jesus woman, are you omniscient?
    do you have powers we mere mortals dont possess…
    funny to see you, of all of the twits on this planet, taking the moral high ground…
    just gonna love to chat to you in a few months time…..
    I have a letter from my gp, saying that I have the symptoms of morgellons, i guess he is delusional too….
    I will not, in principal, wish either you or TC seasons greetings…
    i just really hope this bites you on the ass….
    back in ur box smelly you unsophisticated boorish fraud.
    So seasons greetings, non A holes….

  205. Smileykins said:

    I’m not laughing now. Outrage has distracted me from pain, LONDON.

    Where to now London?

    It seems Nanotechnology has be batted to death. So what will it be? Space travel? nuclear weapons? doomsday? the black hole?

    Could we go any deeper?

    You using that “Predprey” software London?

    I would appreciate a reply please, you don’t seem to acknowledge me here on this blog anymore, why is that?

    Could this be the reason…

    How conniving of you. You asked for help with the current laws on human research testing and informed consent. I posted information thinking that it would calm you down if you saw the facts of the matter, because too many morgie people think on such a delusional level that they believe they can call someone up, or post anywhere on the internet “Here I am Dan Rutz, or doctor so and so, tell me where to show up and I’ll be there for you to study”.

  206. I copied this from the “fiber disease website”.

    Good luck to anyone that can figure out the criptic code.

    What an absolute mess this entire situation is.

    An example of a websites which just continues with the same old around in circles nonsense;

    Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 4:55 am Post subject:

    ——————————————————————————–

    Go ahead anyone…explain to me in simple English what this post means..such filler-busting! Such disinformation! Such a waste of a good site!

    Anyone..explain the meaning of this post in simple laymans terms. I dare ya! Tam..how about you!?

    The most conspicuous internal structures of the endospore of Rhinosporidium seeberi are the 10–16 spherical, 1.0–1.5- µ m bodies that have been termed electron-dense bodies (EDB) or lipid bodies (LB); some authors have regarded them as nutritive stores of lipid or protein while others have regarded them as DNA-containing, ultimate generative units of R. seeberi . The literature is reviewed as supporting either view. We report, for the first time, (i) reactions of the endospores with the salt MTT (3-[4,5-dimethyl-2-thiazolyl]-2,5-diphenyl-2H-tetrazolium bromide) and (ii) ultrastructural appearances; and suggest that both views on the nature of spherical bodies are valid (i.e. the endospore contains both EDB, and lipid or protein bodies). Well-marked reduction of the MTT with the production of deep-purple staining was seen in a proportion of the spherical bodies, probably the EDB, suggesting that they are actively metabolizing, viable elements with dehydrogenase activity, and that these bodies are the thick-walled electron-dense bodies described as EDB and visualized in the transmission electron microphotograph illustrated in this paper. The spherical bodies showed fluorescent labeling with acridine orange and with ethidium bromide supporting the idea that they contained nucleic acids. TMRE (tetramethyl rhodamine ethyl ester), a mitochondrion-specific dye, also labeled the intra-endosporial spherical bodies. Other bodies (LB) of a similar size that were MTT-non-reducing, electron lucent, and have no organized structure, are probably the lipid or protein containing, inert, nutritive storage bodies suggested by previous authors.

    How does this relate..those out there need to know what the great minds on this site think they can comprehend.

    Again..my number is 434-974-7128 if you want to really help… call or write me. 434-980-2757 cisfl2004_at_netzero.com

    Get your state on board.

    Happy Holidays to all except the anti-semites that rule this site.

    Check back a few posts ..one guy called me a Jewish female an inbred.

    That is who is typing..Nazi’s and their friends.

    Randy

  207. Trolling the Web
    http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html

    After reading this, I can’t wait to get anyway from this damn computer.

  208. I know typo!

    I can’t wait to get AWAY!!!

    Happy Christmas to you all.

  209. oozingpus Says:

    jesus woman, are you omniscient?
    do you have powers we mere mortals dont possess…
    funny to see you, of all of the twits on this planet, taking the moral high ground…
    just gonna love to chat to you in a few months time…..

    Do you mean, that for voicing my opinion that it’s wrong to play games with fragile minds that are confused by mental illness and drug abuse, that I’m taking the moral high ground?

  210. Al,

    If your doctor diagnosed you with Morgellons, of course he’s delusional. But your word for it means absolutely nothing. When have you cared about the truth?

    Tall Cotton

  211. Al, do you feel I was in the wrong to be angered that London is using legitimate information and perverting it on the fiber disease message board? Well, sure, I know that is ALL that goes on with “morgellons disease” in the first place. When someone can justify the reason for it, call ME crazy, then.

  212. Maybe you feel I am wrong to speak my opinion on a conspiracy theorist who appears to have schizophrenia, as well as being on drugs (who thinks he has “morgellons disease”), develop such a following, to assist people lurking in the shadows?

  213. If the Doctor was a competent scientist he would be after this very same information… it’s available from Brazil and India.

    They all seem to have knowledge of it. Everyone is looking to publish their own paper down the road and keeping any truely relevent ifo close to the chest in the mean time.

    That is a crime.

    it really is all quite interesting.

    Have a read….

    http://www.avianflutalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=12673&PID=111579

    [Admin Note: this post converted from cut-n-paste to link]

  214. Anharra,

    That link isn’t any more related to the Morgellons issue than a lot of other disease information, and it may not be related to what any of them are suffering from. The Morgies don’t have just one physical disease. Some have one, and some have another. They do, however, all seem to have a common delusional disorder.

    Tall Cotton

  215. Anharra, you may find that information “interesting”, but it’s absurd to think it is connected to anything surrounding “morgellons disease”. See? That is what this whole ball of wax amounts to. A truckload of mixed up, completely confused people, totally bewildered, who misinterpret, from what I can tell, just about everything. They take turns saying “This is it, guys!! Look what I found!!”, and they aren’t even able to process the information. Others come along, believing them, just as you have done, and you aren’t processing things correctly either. Those of us who can process information, which is the majority of the population, most morgies think, are unenlightened. I hate to tell you this, but it’s the other way around. I know that saying that has no effect, though.

  216. Smiley,

    Hey, it’s London. I must admit, I am confused! I just now came back to this forum for the first time since I wrote that post/ question to you and Tc. Hell, I liked your answer so much that I bookmarked all the hyperlinks you provided. Then boom- you go off thinking I tricked you or something>?? HUH? Whatever I wrote on the fiber disease board I can guarrantee you had nothing to do with anything about you or what you hyperlinked to me. I swear to God this is the first time I have been back here since I asked the question, sorry if I offended you somehow….I really don;t know what exactly it is you think I did. Guess I need to go back and reread it. But you guys can check our IP addresses can’t you>? If so, check mine b/c it will show you I have not been here. Honestly, I have not. Gillian, thanks for the links in some of your post. I liked them. And Tc, thanks for your advice and explanation on scitzohrenia(sp?) I appreciate it.

    London

  217. am I using that preyday software>? HEHEHEHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
    hELL, I DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS!

    LONDON

  218. Hi, London. Everything is okay. I’m sorry. It’s just new, and upsetting, to witness people who can’t distinguish reality from a delusion, and separate facts from fiction. If you’ve been a human test subject, and you didn’t consent to it, well, that’s tragic, and I wish you luck in getting it resolved.

  219. Oozingpus says:

    I have a letter from my gp, saying that I have the symptoms of morgellons, i guess he is delusional too….

    Oozing, do you realize that Morgellons is used by physicians and dermatologists as a word synonymous with Delusory Parasitosis? What value is this letter, in this respect?

  220. I have Morgellons and know what I’m picking from under my skin. If you don’t have Morgellons, you don’t know what your talking about. If you had Morgellons you sure would change your mind. These things under the skin are living on the blood under the skin. When you pull them out and look under the microscope you can see them. I’ve been to a doctor and dermatologist and they got all kind of excuses. You non belivers need to get a good dose of these to change your mind. Infected

  221. Irma Lewis, you’d best know what you’re talking about, and who the hell you’re directing it to, before you say such bullshit as you just did. Bring it on, if you dare.

  222. Smilykins, I know what I’m talking about as I’m picking these things out of my skin. If you see them you would change your mind. I’m not a crackpot and besides who would make this up. Do you think I like these things on my arms and legs. I’m 69 years old and never had skin problems before. What’s it take for you to believe.

  223. Irma, you said:

    You non belivers need to get a good dose of these to change your mind.

    You claim superiority in your understanding of “these” to be higher than that of A DOCTOR and A DERMATOLOGIST. So, that means you’re much more intelligent than any of us here, as well.

    I have Morgellons and know what I’m picking from under my skin. If you don’t have Morgellons, you don’t know what your talking about. If you had Morgellons you sure would change your mind. These things under the skin are living on the blood under the skin. When you pull them out and look under the microscope you can see them.

    Enlighten us, Irma, since you geniunely know what you’re talking about, and what you really have. A person in possession of such such supreme knowledge is someone we all need to hear from. So far, it’s all been kept secret, but maybe other people who believe in “morgellons disease” haven’t been as smart as you, and they just can’t find a way to increase everyone’s understanding. At any time, if you ever care knowing anything about me, click onto the name “Smileykins”.

  224. Smileykins,
    You need to goto Morgellons and see the pictures that are posted. I have under my skin some of these pictures but not all of them. I guess many people have different symptons. Dr.Wymore knows what he is talking about. I don’t know why more people aren’t explaining what’s under the skin. I’m guessing you don’t have Morgellons. My Doctor and the Dermatologist wasn’t interested in what I had to say. I explained that a brown spot breaks through the skinand a scabe forms. When you pick the scab off these thing are under there. You can tell when they are there because ou get a bump on your arm. If you can pick all of them out your arm will heal but more comes into the sore. They also deaden the skin all around the sore. I feel better picking these out of my skin instead of leaving them in. I would have hard callous all over me If I didn’t pick these out. Doctors and Dermatologist have never heard of Morgellons, so how can they help you. I know what I have and what I see and nothing is going to change my mind.

  225. Thank you for making it so clear, now, Irma. The government will decide what’s best for “morgellons’ disease” patients, since none of you’ve had any choices given to you on how to treat that. Good luck, and I am glad that I don’t have what you’ve got.

  226. Irma,

    Do you know what is worse than being delusional. I’ll go ahead and answer my own question, just in case you don’t know quite as much as you think you do. The thing that is worse than being delusional, is being delusiomal and having a real skin disorder at the same time. Well, if you are as old as you say you are, and you’ve never had a skin problem im your whole life, I’d say it’s about time for you to come down with somthing. Don’t be scratching now.

    Tall Cotton

  227. Tall Cotton,
    I guess you never heard of “seeing is believing”. How can you be delusionalwhen you see whats there. Thats a nasty thing to say becaueI never had any skin problems till this last year. Another non believer.

  228. Irma,

    I was joking when I said that it’s about time for you to come down with something. I don’t wish illness on anyone, for any reason. If I did, it might backfire. Now, I wasn’t joking about being delusional and still have a real skin disorder. Delusions are not illusions. I don’t doubt that you are seeing what you’re seeing. But delusions are fixed false beliefs. You are confused about what your symptoms mean. I don’t knos what skin problem you have, but I know one that you don’t have, and that’s Morrellons. If your belief is fixed, it’s a delusiom because there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that you or anyone else has it. The illness simply does not exist. I don’t doubt that you have a skin problem, and I don’t have any reason to doubt the things you say you see. They aren’t what you think they are though, if you think like the rest of the Morgies. And absolutely nothing good will ever com out of the belief in Morgellons.

    Tall Cotton

  229. Irma, I’d responded to you the way I did, initially, because I felt that you’d spoken dishonorably to begin with. Did you just need to vent, somewhere, without knowing where you were? Since you’re here, I suggest starting at the beginning, with April’s archives, and work up to the present. You don’t even appear as though you’d read the topic, or the comments, before you’d posted.

    Did you go actually go in to those two doctors describing what YOU THINK you have wrong with you, or did YOU ASK what those growths, that you’re obsessed with, are? There’s plenty the matter with people who think they have “morgellons disease”. Among things, is how so many think that if they never had something before now, that, somehow, translates to them, as meaning that they never should.
    __________________

    smileykins Says:
    December 29th, 2006 at 12:05 pm

    I found this interesting. It’s an admission to “self-surgery with fingernails”, but, well, ya gotta have a look to appreciate it. Upon occasion, we all pick at ourselves, but not everyone gets carried away, or misinterprets what they’re picking.

    http://medgenmed.medscape.com/viewarticle/548889

  230. I found this interesting. It’s an admission to “self-surgery with fingernails”, but, well, ya gotta have a look to appreciate it. Upon occasion, we all pick at ourselves, but not everyone gets carried away, or misinterprets what they’re picking.

    OMG!! No thanks!

  231. I’m sorry, Irma. In case that link didn’t work for you, here is one on a common skin growth that happens as people age. Please have a look, read, and then tell us your thoughts on it. It may, certainly, not be what you have, but I’d like to hear what you think.

    http://dermnetnz.org/lesions/seborrhoeic-keratosis.html

  232. Hahaha, I’m sorry, Gillian. It’s actually an article written by a doctor, about how benign those particular skin growths are, and, yeah, he removes them with his nails, and has pictures.

  233. Smileykins, I sure don’t have seborrhoeic kerotoses or anything like it. I was trueful when I said I went to two doctors. I don’t know where I was venting to I just wanted someone to believe what I wass telling them. It amazes me whatI pull from my skin also. It’s hard for me to explain better than I did foryou. Ask me some questions and I’ll try to answer them for you. These things under the skin are not delusional. You can see them and feel them attached to the matter under the skin. Sorry you don’t believe me but I’m telling the truth. irma

  234. Tall Cotton
    I guess you haven’t gone to the Morgellons watch and seen the picturs? Where do you think they got the pictures from when I have under my skin what the pictures show. It’s amazing that you’re telling me I’m seeing this that are delusional when It’s under my skin and not yours.I’ve had prescription creams to use and nothing kills these things. Sorry you don’t believe me either but Im telling the truth.

  235. Thank you, Irma. Did you ask the first doctor that you saw what the growths are, and ask the second doctor, the dermatologist, what they are, also?

  236. Irma,

    I have a very good idea what it coming out of your skin. We are all human and we also share similar environments. You’ll naturally see the same assortment of cellular debris that your body has shed. The outer layers of the epidermis also collect a lot of debris from the environment, such as fibes. That’s because fibers are everywhere. Of course there will ge hair and scabs, and if your liver or kidneys are acting up, you’ll likey see ann assortment of rocks and granules. The skin will attempt to expel any toxin if the other organs can’t do the job. I’ve seen thousands of Morgie pictures and I’ve studied them in depth. What they are lacking are organisms. A morgie thinks anything that looks wormy is a worm, and if a scab looks like a bug, then to them, it’s a bug. Very rarely will a specimen turn out to contain a harmful organism. I don’t have morgellons, but I feel quite sure that my skin has expelled every thing that yours has, if not a greater varoetu/ I had long, hairlike fibers, shooting out of my face and the rocks were popping out of my skin so fast that they sounded like miniature popcorn, and that ain’t the half of it. See your doctor and let him prescribe you another medication. It’s nothing unusual to go through a few meds before you find one that will work for you. I’m not playing a guessing game. I know for a fact that there is no Morgellons.

    Tall Cotton

  237. Estimado Tallcotton,

    Yo sólo quise a “gracias” privadamente entre tú y yo.

    Yo le he dado un tiempo tan duro, y lamento mucho. Tengo sentía tan malo acerca de este muchos muchos veces, por eso yo quise darle este mensaje.

    Usted ha trabajado tan duro, y sin su ayuda que yo no sería donde soy ahora.

    Gracias con toda sinceridad.

    Adore Gillian.

  238. Irma,

    I explained to you what delusional means, but you obviously didn’t see my post, or else you don’t believe that I had said about its definition. Delusional has nothing directly to do with anything you see, hear, taste, touch, or smell. It doesn’t mean that you are hallucinating. It means that you are convinced that morgellons is a disease and you think the things that are coming out of your skin are its pathogen. It also means that thet belief unshakable, ahd illogical. It’s impossible for the Morgies to kill that crap that isn’t even alive in the first place. You may have some real parasites. I don’t know. But I do khow that you don’t have a morgellons parasite. I hope you listen to your doctors and follow his instructions. I also hope that you find out what your skin problem is. You are wasting your time with Morgellons though.

    Tall Cotton

  239. Gillian said…

    Estimado Tallcotton,

    Yo sólo quise a “gracias” privadamente entre tú y yo.

    Yo le he dado un tiempo tan duro, y lamento mucho. Tengo sentía tan malo acerca de este muchos muchos veces, por eso yo quise darle este mensaje.

    Usted ha trabajado tan duro, y sin su ayuda que yo no sería donde soy ahora.

    Gracias con toda sinceridad.

    Adore Gillian.

    Thank you for offering to send me a one year supply of Taco Bell Tacos. That was very kind of you. I sure hope they don’t spoil in the mail. Well, I guess they’ll either arrive by UPS, or else they’ll be in the form of gift certificates. I can’t wait. Viva Gordita! I mean Viva Taco.

    Tall Cotton

  240. Can you stay with me, Irma, and we can go real slow? Because, I want to understand. You have to believe me when I say that I’m unable to believe, anything, until I understand. I’m sorry I’d had some typos, and it must have looked to you as though I’d questioned if you’d really gone to two doctors. I hadn’t, and I believe that did. You can help to believe if you start at the beginning. Did you *give* an interpretation of what you think about your skin, or did you *ask* for an interpretation of your skin? You can tell me what happened before, which prompted you to see a doctor, if that will help me. Thank you.

  241. Tall Cotton,
    I think that you were delusional if you expect me to believe that you had rocks popping out of your skin. I told you what’s living under my skin is living on the blood under the skin. Some of them are larger than others and soome are full of blood. Some are small and have a hair like feeder coming from them that is attached under the skin. I know their is parasites that live under the skin but they don’t come out and form a scab like what I have. If you have a cut and there is blood you can bet that these things will go there. The Doctor and Dermatologist just listen to me and give me alot of excuses that doesn’t make sense. I know better than them because I’m the one who’s see’ them and pulling them out, and some of them don’t come out easy. Irma

  242. Irma,

    If they’re coming out of your skin, it’s simple to have them identified. I *never* encourage you to pick at your skin, but if some just crawl out, take a pair of tweezers or your fingers and gently place the object or creature into a clear sandwich bag. Zip the bag, stick it in an envelope or box, and mail it to your extension agent or give it to your dermatologist.

  243. Smileykins, I told the Doctor and Dermatologist what was happening to my skin just like I told you. They them came up with all kinds of answers that didn’t make sense and the more I tried to explain the more excuses I got. I could tell that they didn’t believe me even when I took the Morgellons papers and pictures to them. It took all of two seconds to look at them, wasn’t interested. If the Doctor or Dermatologist would let me pick some of these things out and look at them they could see what I see but that’s not going to happen. The Dermatologist took a plug from my arm months ago and said thay didn’t find anything. I expected that. I still have them where the plug was. I guess it will never heal because I can’t get them all out. Irma

  244. Sarah,

    These things don’t come out of your skin, you have to pick them out. Some come out easy and on others you have to get under them to get them out. They die once the air hits them because I’ve never seen them move and I’ve seen enough of them. The Dermatologist would think I was a nut case if I took some to him sinse he had all kinds of excuses. Irma

  245. Irma,

    Okay, so your dermatologist is not an option to you, but you didn’t say anything about your extension agent?

    If air (oxygen, nitrogen, argon, carbon dioxide) kills “them,” and all of these things are present in your epidermis, how do they live inside your skin? That’s most curious.

  246. Irma,

    Yes, there are some things feeding under your skin. They are alive, and getting their nourishment from your blood. They often have a hair attached to them, although it may be a mutated one. These things you are calling creatures, or parasites, are properly called hair follicles. They belong there. Quit pulling them out!

    Tall Cotton

  247. Slow, please, Irma? You need to go real “S-L-O-W”, and to please start at the beginning, to help me.

    So, Irma, you TOLD THEM…You didn’t ASK THEM what your skin growths are? What were some of the things that they’d said, that didn’t make any sense?

    Do you know if you have high blood pressure? Thank you.

  248. Tall Cotton,

    These things are not hair follicles. They are attached to what I’m pulling out and have the same texture I’m pulling out only a thin hair like line. I would be in more trouble if I didn’t pull them out because a hard callous would grow over them, then I would have to put cream on to soften the callous. When you pick under the callous it is full of them. If I’m lucky to get them all out my skin will be smooth, otherwise bumpy. By the way I don’t itch or scratch. Irma

  249. Thank you, for trying to help us understand, Irma. Can you remember anything that the two doctors said, when they talked “nonsense” to you and gave you “excuses”? I’m sorry, but did you say that you have high blood pressure? It sounds like, among some possibilities, that you may also have high platelets, causing your blood to clot too quickly. Since you’ve invited me to ask you anything, I really do appreciate this. If I knew whether anyone’s ever referred you, at anytime, to an endocrinologist, that would help me, too. What health conditions do you have? Before this happened to your skin, I mean. Thanks!

  250. Irma said…

    Some of them are larger than others and soome are full of blood.

    Irma later said…

    They are attached to what I’m pulling out and have the same texture I’m pulling out only a thin hair like line.

    Okay, Irma. They are different sizes, and some are full of blood, but they are all thin, hair-like lines. What did your doctor say they are? What did your doctor tell you to do? What did your doctor tell you not to do? What the doctor said, is the important part. And who told you that a scab is a callus? Was it that nut named Cliff?

    Tall Cotton

  251. Irma,

    Concerning this thick scab you’re calling a callus, have you stopped to consider that it might be your body’s way of saying, “Leave this lesion alone”? Have you discovered yet that picking is extremely habit forming, and it can be quite destructive?

    Tall Cotton

  252. Hey guys, this message board software this website runs on, is it something i can buy for my own website or is it propriatary?

  253. I think clicking onto this, at the bottom of the screen will assist you, Dermacia:

    Get a free blog at WordPress.com. | Theme: Andreas09 by Andreas Viklund.

  254. Southcity,

    You’re a real mental case. Did you know that?

    Tall Cotton

  255. All you morgellons disease doubters and cynics go and have a look at the firs captured images of a living organism moving that is the cause of this disease. You are welcome to contact me if you want to hear about my seven-year suffering with this disease. I live in London and did not even know there was a disease listed as morgellons until 2006, or that it was the same as the disease I had been suffering from for the last seven-years documented.

    All-comers doubters welcome to view on youtube at

    youtube.com/watch?v=g1MPArQLsLI

    Also

    youtube.com/watch?v=NKW0bCcfvPE

  256. Something moving. Is that your proof? The video is so out of focus, I’m not even sure if I was looking at the right thing. I’d be embarassed to show that video to anyone, much less use it as evidence of anything.

  257. Well, hello, again, Andy.

    BTW….

    IRMA!!! Where’d ya go? You’d told me…

    Ask me some questions and I’ll try to answer them for you.

    You still around, Irma Lewis?

  258. Hi Smileykins,

    I’m still around and still picking these things from my arms and legs. I’ll answer any questions about these things as I’m in good health and these have nothing to do with my health. I’ve put these things in alcohol when I pull them out so I can take them to my Doctor.

    Irma

  259. Hello, Irma. I’m glad you’re in a good state of health. Are the growths a cosmetic concern, and so you remove them because you think they’re unsightly? Do you remember anything that the two doctors said they are? Thanks.

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