Dec 08 2006
KCET Life & Times on Morgellons
Here’s the best report I’ve seen so far on Morgellons:
http://www.kcet.org/lifeandtimes/blog/?p=131
It’s a seven minute video, and a refreshing change from the brief alarmist segments we’ve seen so far on local TV. It actually presents a very balanced look at the problem, and is well worth a view.
In the accompanying text there is a telling quote from Professor Wymore:
“I entered Morgellons research as a skeptic and have come to understand it as a multi-system disease of unknown cause. Morgellons is off-handedly discounted by many public-health officials and physicians who ignore physical and neurological symptoms — and, instead, label sufferers as delusional without looking at their skin.
If medical professionals would employ a simple diagnostic tool, such as a dermatoscope, they would see microscopic fibers under unbroken, non-scarred skin as my Oklahoma State University Center for Health Sciences colleagues and I have seen. OSU-CHS researchers have evaluated fibers and material collected by clinical faculty, healthcare providers and patients.”
Wymore seems stuck in a bit of a mental rut, saying the same thing over and over without really stopping to consider the implications of what he is saying.
Supposedly there are over 5000 people with “Morgellons”. They usually report having gone to many doctors, usually in double figures. That’s over 50,000 doctor visits.
What Wymore is saying that that out of those 50,000 visits, they have all been “off-handedly discounted … without looking at their skin”.
Just consider for a moment the implications here. Out of 50,000 docotor visits nobody has noticed that there are fibers growing under the skin? Out of 50,000 doctor visits, including thousands of dermatology visits, nobody looked at the skin of people with obvious skin problems?
Clearly these patients have had their skin examined several times by many doctors. The doctors diagnosed whatever the skin conditions were, and if they saw fibers they did not look suspicious, as it’s perfectly normal to have fibers in your lesions.
Wymore should put up or shut up. He claims to be 100% convinced, and has claimed this for many months. He is a scientist, so he must be basing this on observable evidence. So far all he has produced is a few anecdotes and a couple of unidentified inorganic fibers. If the evidence is as plain and convincing as he claims, then what exactly is the problem in producing this evidence?
Professor Wymore, what would be more productive: performing PCR on bits of lint for several months, or showing your evidence to a few dermatologists and getting the medical community on your side? I suspect that deep inside you really know the score. You are just more comfortable doing your meaningless tests, and being a hero to a sick community.
What would Barry Marshall do?
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In my opinion, Wymore has sure always appeared to not be well, himself. Maybe whatever it is, really has him thinking he’ll actually win the nobel prize, also, and not have to go about it the right way. I mean that, seriously. . Morgie people have “different ways” of seeing things, than from the ways things really are, ya know.
Whoa. I can’t believe what I just said. “In my opinion, Wymore has sure always appeared to not be well, himself.” Well, it has to appear that way to most anyone, though, doesn’t it? OSU administration has seemed, to me at least, to be asleep at the wheel, or something, allowing his research, and all the ridiculous stuff on the website for “morgellons disease”. This man’s behaviors have always mirrored well documented skills that are employed by people who practice pathological lying, ever since he jumped into this mess. Oh, but I’d tried giving him the benefit of doubt, as hard as I could, thinking, at first, that he’d rushed into it without any forethought, just wanting to do this as a graduate studies’ project. But, Jace set me straight on that, though. Leaping into it, head first, appearing to have done it with the innocence of a small child, not at all like that of a person in possession of all their faculties, to begin with, then, obsessing over collecting fibers, and all the rest of everything, that has ensued since, kind of seems to add up to something, doesn’t it?
If you know Morgellons to be a psychosomatic / delusional disorder, you should be willing to be exposed to the fibers and other “non-biologic” materials. I would be glad to donate, and assist in this experiment…
dont you get sick of it smelly?
ya just go on and on
blithely unaware of your
perdition
i think the thrust of this post
is to look at the VIDEO
i note that you sail, often,
very close to defamation
these are people whom you
besmirch, not the muppets
for your witty character
assasinations
but, as ever you go on
Hi Smiley,
I recently read this article and thought immediately of Wymore.
One quote in particular:
“He believes he’s taken up the cause of people who have been shut out by the scientific community. He’s lionized there. He’s worshipped. He walks on water. It’s embarrassing.”
Obviously it’s not purely psychosomatic. Delusion is a factor in the varied conditions of various people, but many of them also suffer from related physical conditions.
Maybe like the person in the link below you have an antibiotic resistant staph infection exacerbated by scratching?
http://discover.com/issues/dec-06/departments/vital-signs-sore-mystery/?page=2
If so, then the environmental fibers you happen to find in your lesions will be contaminated with the staph. You can’t really describe something you find in your seeping lesion as “non-biologic” unless you autoclave it first.
If Wymore had a list of the fibers on the police department’s database, ahead of time, it wouldn’t take very long to locate some unidentifiable fibers. He searched for fibers 9 months, I was told. He could probably have even done it without the list, if he selected a new type of material. But then, again, we havn’t been shown his so-called mysterious fibers. They may not have ever existed.
Oozingpus, how close to defamation of character do you think I am. Nevermind, because I really don’t care what either you or Wymore thinks. You are obviously both idiots. That goes for you too, cw. My God, you people are strange. If you don’t like what you read on this site, go the fuck somewhere else. Nobody is gonna miss you!
Tall Cotton
What would Barry Marshall do?
Well, Marshall drank a petri-dish of the bacteria, Heliobacter pylori, to prove his hypothesis about the cause of stomach ulsers. He did that to get people to pay attention.
He soon developed gastritis. His symptoms disappeared after two weeks, but he took antibiotics to kill the remaining bacteria at the urging of his wife, since halitosis is one of the symptoms of infection.
So, what would Barry Marshall do? He would already have those fibers where the sun doesn’t shine. That’s way I suggest that Wymore does with his.
Tall Cotton
Hello there, Jeezelouise. I’ve missed you, and hope that you and your family are well. Whachoo doozin’, readin’ ’bout Big Foot?! Hahaha!!! Yes, seriously, I think there are some parallels in that article, too, and in the quote you cited. Whatever the true motivation for his involvement, and his purposeful reinforcement of dangerous thoughts and practices, it isn’t fair to interfere, further, with such people as this. I think there are only two types of “professional” people who get involved in this mess of “believing in” and “helping” such patients.
I watched that sad video and yes, I get sick of it, Oozingpus. (If you are “oozing pus”, I hope you’re all right. Is that you, Al?) I believed in the evolution of mental health care reform, and the development of community-based outpatient services, but some of the sad consequences have always concerned me. “Morgellons disease” has proven, up close, how problematic it is to get some people to receive the help they need. They never will, as long as quacks exist.
Another “Oh you’re so scared, you wouldn’t actually want to be in a room with me because you’re a liar.”
*Sigh* I was exposed to so many “Morgellons” samples in my year and a half at UGA, I should have it growing all over the place. Maybe I’m not actually a hairy Italian womyn, but have been afflicted with Morgellons my whole life?
Seriously. If you’re so contagious, it’d be like the flu. Everyone would have it who came in contact with you. Where is the evidence?
That was my frustrated rant. I’m in the middle of finals, so I’m a short fuse these days.
Back to the point I was GOING to make, is that research is a publish or perish industry. If you don’t start cranking out research papers and publishing in peer-reviewed journals, you’re kicked to the curb for someone else who can bring prestige to the institution. When shall we expect a peer-reviewed article from Dr. W? Surely he’s at least announce one or two were in progress or submitted for review.
My reference to Marshall was not to suggest Wymore ingest fibers. I was just suggesting Marshall as a scientist who did real science, with meaningful experiments and actual statistics, letters and papers in peer reviewed publications, and worked with other scientists.
Check this timeline.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_peptic_ulcer_disease_and_Helicobacter_pylori
Science obviously takes time. But if Wymore is prepared to shout his 100% certainty from the pulpit of the national media, then he should at least be able to back it up with a little evidence, some experimental results, epidemiology, a number of two, anything?
Michael States “Just consider for a moment the implications here. Out of 50,000 docotor visits nobody has noticed that there are fibers growing under the skin? Out of 50,000 doctor visits, including thousands of dermatology visits, nobody looked at the skin of people with obvious skin problems?”
Indeed, I encourage everyone to consider this question. Personally, I have seen 6 different physicians, in this order- 2x general practice, derm, derms partner in same practice, psychologist who then referred me back to another dermatologist. The fact is, with exception to my current doctor, The psychologist asked the most pertinent questions and performed a more complete exam than 4 of the other physicians combined. My current physician is doing a good job but is admittedly stumped and does not have any definite answers. Thankfully he is interested and is doing what he can, and he does not doubt that myself or my girlfriends having some type of novel and very strange physical ailment.
So yes, your question concerning all these visits and the lack of quality exams, should be a very big concern. Especially if one is unlucky enough to have aquired a rarely seen illness or something new and emerging, that is outside the box of everyday types of patient visits.
Note: These treating physicians are the first line in our countries ability to detect any type of biological event. Both naturally occuring and bioterrorism events included. This supposedly includes a higher priority in watching for agents that disable(considered to be the most likely type of event to happen), as opposed to agents that kill quickly. With this in mind, consider exactly how big the threat of bioterrorism really is and how unprepared our medical industry and nation as a whole, truly is.
Southcity
I think that Wymore is destined to be an embarassment to Oklahoma State University and the State of Oklahoma. In my opinion, his beliefs about Morgellons are not only incorrect, but also illogical. If he wanted to get involved in this nonsense, he should have approached it on neutral ground, publishing the results of his research, yeah or nay. I think his best chance of getting out of this mess would have been when the CDC announced that it was going to investigate. But now it looks like he’s just going to get in deeper and deeper. What I said about him putting his fibers where the sun doesn’t shine is an expression of my opinion of the may. I don’t mean it literally, although he may be both dumb and twisted enough to do it.
TC
We were told, in May, that peer-reviewed studies and published papers on research into the fibers were something that Wymore was working on. I feel that would really be difficult, though, considering.
This is December. It’d sure be cool if the dude had reported something about those samples.
Listening, only, to one-sided patients’ versions of things, and relating to them in their own language, does-not-cut-it when a “new disease” is suspected. Hearing from their doctors, but, first-and-foremost, understanding what DOP (and, of course, MSBP), is, sure would have been a darned nice thing for the OSU PhD to have gotten a handle on. Well, I mean, if compassion for these patients, and really wanting to help, was his only motivation. Going along with something this detrimental to people, especially when kids are involved, is such a shameful disgrace. Naturally, he’s not the only one, but he’s sure put himself out there and has a giant role in it.
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_051806_news_sweeps_strange_sickness_morgellons.53b2569a.html
Thank you Michael for this new topic. Very good video.
Tallcotton & Smileykins - Do us all a favour please - drink a cup of glyphosate and roundup.
Southcity. I won’t say anything but one simple, tiny, little question.
Why did ya fall for “per Daniel” aka Tam-tam???
Southcity,
He can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that Michael was expressing his disbelief that with so many doctor visits having been made by the Morgies, that their skin was not examined. Surely you don’t think we believe such nonsense.
A very large percentage of the doctors know exactly what Morgellon is. It’s DOP. If your doctor believes that Morgellons is an emerging disease, causing fibers to sprout from your skin, he’s part of a very small delusional minority. Chances are very good that he’s just after your money. If a Morgie looks hard enough, he’s gonna find one willing to take it.
Tall Cotton
Barry Marshall
http://www.vianet.net.au/~bjmrshll/
The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2005
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/medicine/laureates/2005/
The Tall Poppy Campaign
http://www.tallpoppies.net.au/cavalcade/marshall.htm
Nobel for stomach ulcer discorvery
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4304290.stm
Barry Marshall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall
Tall Poppy
ARE YOU A LEGEND
IN YOUR OWN MIND?
By MadamSplash
http://www.splash.net.au/articles/legend.html
This article is an absolute MUST read, and so eloquently written, and (I believe) VERY relevant.
Michael - I was wondering if you could have a look at something for me please. I want to bring this information to the blog ie. Rickettsia, as this is what I was diagnosed with. I hope you do not mind. If you think it is not appropriate please tell me so and/or delete. I am just trying to break this entire thing down, and keep is as REAL as possible.
**********************************************************************
Rickettsial infections (update April 2006)
Includes scrub typhus and Queensland tick typhus (spotted fever
http://www.health.vic.gov.au/ideas/bluebook/rickettsial.htm
I have the information below in a word document - dated 21st May 2004
(Apologise, I do not know where to find the link for this older document)
Typhus (Epidemic louse-borne typhus) Infectious agent
Rickettsia prowazekii, Rickettsia rickettsii, Rickettsia conorii, Rickettsia australis, Rickettsia tsutsugamushi
Group A - Diseases require immediate notification to the Department of Human Services by telephone or fax upon initial diagnosis (presumptive or confirmed) with written notification to follow within five days.
Victorian statutory requirement
Group A notification.
Infectious agent
Rickettsia prowazekii, Rickettsia rickettsii, Rickettsia conorii, Rickettsia australis, Rickettsia tsutsugamushi.
Clinical features
It is an acute, severe febrile disease characterised by prolonged high fever, headache and a maculopapular rash.
Fever may reach 40oC and remain at a high level for about two weeks.
On the fourth to sixth day, small pink macules appear in the axillae and on the upper trunk. They rapidly cover the body.
In severe cases, the rash becomes petechial and haemorrhagic.
Splenomegaly occurs in some cases.
The disease resolves after about two weeks.
In untreated cases, the fatality rate increases with age and may reach 40 per cent.
Public health significance & occurrence
Occurrence is worldwide.
It is associated with overcrowding and poor hygiene favouring infestation with body lice.
Method of diagnosis
It can be diagnosed by:
• Serologic tests
• Weil-Felix reaction with Proteus OX-19 (largely obsolete)
• Complement fixation test with group-specific or type-specific antigen
• The IFA test (most commonly used)
• Toxin neutralisation test
• Isolation and identification of rickettsiae by inoculation of guinea pigs with infected blood
Reservoir
Humans and, in the USA, flying squirrel.
Mode of transmission
R. prowazekii is found in faeces of the infected human body louse.
Infection occurs when a puncture wound on the skin is contaminated by scratching.
Inhalation of dry infective louse faeces may be responsible for some infections.
Incubation period
Usually seven to 14 days; commonly 12 days.
Period of communicability
The disease is not directly transmitted from person to person.
The patient is infective for lice during the febrile illness and probably two to three days after the temperature returns to normal.
The louse is infective for two to six days after the infected blood meal.
Susceptibility & resistance
Susceptibility is general.
There is long-lasting Immunity following infection.
Control of case
Isolation is not required after proper delousing of patient, clothing, living quarters and household contacts.
There should be concurrent disinfection of clothing and bedding of patient and contacts, and laundering of clothing and bedding of patient and contacts.
Treatment
It should be treated with tetracyclines or chloramphenicol orally until the patient becomes afebrile.
Doxycycline in a single dose is also curative.
Seriously ill patients should be treated without waiting for laboratory confirmation.
Control of contacts
• Investigate all contacts
• Look for a source of infection
• Keep all immediate contacts under surveillance for two weeks
Preventive Measures
• Apply an effective residual insecticide powder (Carbaryl) to population at risk
• Improve living conditions and standard of hygiene
• Immunise susceptible persons or groups of persons entering typhus area (two doses of 1 ml for children over 10 years of age and adults, with intervals of four weeks between doses)
Epidemic measures
Typhus can be rapidly controlled by applying an insecticide with residual effect to all contacts.
In case of a widespread infection, systematic application of residual insecticide to all persons in the community is indicated.
International measures
Government should notify WHO and neighbouring countries of the occurrence of disease in an area previously free of the disease.
Louse-borne typhus is a disease under surveillance by WHO that should be reported to the Communicable Diseases Network
DIMETHYL PHTHALATE
http://www.lakes-environmental.com/toxic/DIMETHYL_PHTHALATE.HTML
Carbaryl
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/carbaryl.html
***********************************************************************************
Michael - You and I have established (what I feel) a great relationship over these past few months, and you know all about my trials and tribulations, and your support for me alone has been so very much appreciated.
The documents state “severe cases (Rickettsia) must be treated by an Infectious Disease Specialist”.
I went to one 2 years ago, he got rid of me, sent me to Dermatology/Psychiatry (with a 3 day holiday in the psych.ward) I did not respond to two courses of Doxycycline. This particular Infectious Diseases Specialist said I ONLY had the R.Australis strain with a titre of 512. But on the list I also had positive titre 512 for; R.honei, R.conorrii,R.sibirica,R.rickettsii,R.akari.
My goodness me I was exhibiting severe neurological dysfunction back then when I saw him. They investigated me for 6 months, during that time I had to shave my head due to intracranial pressure (I was kinda aware that I had had a stroke). Call me silly, but I’d say that my symptoms back then would have be classified as a “severe rickettsial infection”.
Michael I think you know what I am trying to say here; Rickettsia - Morgellons - my current state of health - What, Where, When, Why, How? and my current treating physician seems to be rather “sarcastic with me” and asks me why I think my breasts are terribly sore!!! Oh please! What on earth does it take hey?
**********************************************************************************
Yes I have been very sick and very delusional - Michael I smell a rat.
Tallcotton states: “He can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that Michael was expressing his disbelief that with so many doctor visits having been made by the Morgies, that their skin was not examined. Surely you don’t think we believe such nonsense.”
My answer is. Michael seems like a reasonably intelligent person so perhaps he is able to understand what I am talking about.
On the other hand, tallcotton and smileykins, I believe you both to be fairly ignorant and certainly close minded and arrogant. And seeing as how you are both “formerly infected” and your repeated arguements as to the reality of this infectious agent reeks of denial, and because of your admitted flip flopping in belief, only gives your words a very low level of credibility. I also believe all three of you are acting in colusion for some unstated reason.
I might also add the the level of effort put forth by the three of you is truly having a minimal effect on the issue, but is providing some entertainment value as to just how far various industries will stoop to protect themselves. By all means, please, keep doing as you have been doing.
for the avid reader, here is a tiny bit of the types of experimentation and research going on today. The sheer number of these types of examples, added with the human error element, is chilling in regards to the probability of this particular GMO’s release being one of the first of several others to come. http://www.whlib.ac.cn/dzzy/sjk/proquest/4.xls
South
Michael - I think you may enjoy a read of this document.
REMOVE vitamins w/Codex Aliemtarius, KILL microbiologists, STEP UP mycoplasma/chemtrails
author: Bush regime bastards watch
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/01/309675.shtml
South,
We havn’t flip-flopped, unless you call being sick, then getting well, flip-flopping. You, on the other hand, have proven, beyond doubt, that you are a liar. We can easily prove it, too. Credibility is something that is totally foreign to you.
What you think of Smileykins’ or my level of intelligence is immaterial. You’ve proven your lack of intelligence with your belief that Morgellons is a disease. You aren’t any competition for either one of us. That’s obvious. Your belief that any of the three of us are employed, by anyone, is another example of your delusions.
You once said that you know where we work. That’s just example of your lying nature. Do I need to give everyone other examples. I can, if I need to. In my opinion, besides having DOP, you’re a schizophrenic. I say that because you also appear to be suffering from paranoid delusions.
We aren’t trying to convince you of anything. We’re here so that people who are undecided about Morgellons have an opportunity to hear the truth. That’s something they aren’t going to get from a Morgellons believer. If you plan on overcoming your physical problems, I suggest you get help for your mental problems.
Tall Cotton
Good point South. Inquire about education in the matter also.
Credentials in general.
South, you never answer a question, no matter how simple it is. Yes, I agree that I’m arrogant, as well as ignorant, sometimes. I suppose I show it in excess, counteracting lies that there is a new disease called “morgellons”, when people like you bring your illness onto a blog that debunks it. Be thankful I know my boundaries and don’t stick my nose into morgie discussions. Not like anyone would allow it, though. “Close minded” is the epitome of what you and other believers are. When minds are so far removed from reality, full of fear, and so hardened by pride and prejudice, that is not, at all, the same as having an open mind. Things need to be shrunk down to a manageable size.
Tall Cotton and I are not both “formerly infected”. Recovering from our experiences of DOP several years ago, which almost cost both of us our lives, South, is not what you called an “admitted flip flopping in belief”, that we’d had. In the fucked up state you’re obviously deriving pleasure from being in, I expect nothing less than for you to consider us as having a “very low level of credibility”. Everyone can see you’re hellbent on spreading panic to other vulnerable people, thinking that you’re doing the right thing.
Hypothetically, if I were a paranoid schizophrenic, and, upon viewing your web site, saw that you were like me, and I contacted you and played into your all of your fears, telling you everything that you wanted to hear, to help you validate all your suspicions, you wouldn’t think a thing about my credibility or demand any proof of my credentials. You’d think I really knew what I was talking about and that I was whomever I told you I was, just due to the fact I said what you wanted to hear. Other morgie people would praise my out-of-the-box thinking skills, too.
Why are people so ashamed of delusional parasitosis, anyway, and so suspicious, and ill-mannered towards others?
Is “morgellons disease” just more fun to have, so you won’t treat it?
THE OVERLOOKED RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN INFECTIOUS DISEASES AND MENTAL
SYMPTOMS
http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james16.htm
“A valuable clue that a mental problem may be infectious rather than psychiatric is sudden onset in a previously stable individual. “
Dr. Paul Fink, past president of the American Psychiatric
Association, has acknowledged that every psychiatric disorder in the
Psychiatric Diagnostic Symptoms Manual IV (DSM-!V) can be caused by
Lyme Disease. This proves that every known psychiatric disorder can
be caused by an infection (Borrelia burgdorfi Bb spirochete). So far
all cases of Alzheimer’s disease tested for the Borrelia burgdorfi Bb
spirochete, which causes Lyme Disease, have tested positive.
So Starlink, is this infectious disease connectiong being covered up by someone? Or are scientists just not noticing it?
NORMAN!!! That is the point, precisely. People should not be offended, just because they need to treat their minds, first, so they can heal their bodies, afterwards. EXCELLENT!!!
I don’t know about what I read in the link you provided, though, Norman. But, as I have been saying, all along, I think it is disgraceful that Stricker & Savely are supposedly EXPERTS on Lyme Disease, and TOTALLY IGNORANT of its associated neuropsychiatric effects, as well as the cutaneous ones. A few other professionals associated with “morgellons disease” are too. So, why is that?
Hello Starlink,
Those are excellent posts you made. How have things been going lately? You’re right about infectious diseases causing sometimes causing mental problems, and lyme disease is certainly one of them. There’s also some others that cause problems of a similar nature.
We know about lyme disease, and we know about many other diseases. But we have a whole lot to learn. These diseases have diagnostic criteria, and no matter whether they are causing physical problems, psychological problems, or both, diseases are diseases. They need to be diagnosed and, if possible, cured.
The same is true for the illnesses of the members of the Morgellons community, and they obviosly have a variety of them. They have a problem and they need to find out what it is, and get fixed.
Morgellons hasn’t been proven to be a disease, and it has no diagnostic criteria. Most of the Morgies have already been diagnosed with other things. Some of those diagnoses, however, may be wrong. It’s sure not a perfect world.
Not every medication works for every individual, and sometimes there is no cure, just treatments to alleviate or lessen the symptoms. I hope the Morgies give their doctors adequate time to come up with the proper diagnoses and find a medication that helps them.
There’s a few doctors that believe that Morgellons is a disease, or so they claim. Some of them are obviously scam artists, exploiting members of the Morgellons community. None of them, however, have produced the evidence to prove their claims.
Morgies are putting all their chips on their bet that Morgellons is a disease. A lot of them have spent their life’s savings trying to prove it, and by trying to self-medicate their conditions. Most of them go from doctor to doctor, looking for one that will confirm their beliefs. Some have forsaken their diagnoses, and their needed medication, and are literally betting their lives on it.
Something needs to be done to help the Morgies. As you know, the CDC is investigating the matter. It’ll be a while before they make their report. I trust the CDC. I hope that everyone follows their recommendations, whatever they are. I have my beliefs, but that’s not here nor there. It’s up to the individual to follow their own convictions.
If people do have mental illness, they shouldn’t be ashamed of getting treatment. The brain is a very important organ, but it is an organ, and as such, it is succeptable to developing problems. People need to seek the help that they need, and do what they can to improve their lives.
Good Luck to you.
Tall Cotton
Starlink,
I just now got around to checking out that link you provided. I disagree that a lot of tests are needed to determine that a patient has DOP. Blood tests reveal a lot more than most Morgies realize, and an experienced doctor can glean a whole lot from a patien’s behavior. If the patient sticks around long enough, the doctor can perform other tests if they are warranted.
TC
Also… I don’t believe that the Morgie’s mental problems were as quickly onset as they tend to believe. Some of them don’t even realize they have mental problems. After getting to know some of the Morgies better, it’s easy to see that they’ve had mental problems all of their lives.
TC
Norman, unless you were wanting to illustrate the fact that the mental aspects of morgie people are what causes them to think that they have parasites, I don’t actually see how the link you’d provided is relevant. I have always considered that, supposedly, as reported, there “seems to be” a prevalence of what everyone is calling “morgellons disease”, in late stage, or chronic, lyme disease. To be perfectly honest, I don’t have any of my own opinions on lyme disease. However, I have read enough seemingly legitimate information on it, to see that there are neuropsychiatric effects associated with it, as well as various cutaneous ones. Therefore, it is understandable that such patients could feasibly have been diagnosed with delusional parasitosis, if they are patients of chronic lyme, and unaware of what to expect from their condition.
But, the topic of discussion is “morgellons disease”. I firmly believe in the wisdom of conventional medicine, just the same as most of the rest of the world. CBCs can easily detect infections, and doctors know what other tests to order, too, when something is suspect. Patients have a duty to themselves to express what they need a doctor to know about their symptoms. We have to consider the record with this group of patients, and the way this “morgellons disease” phenomenon came to light.
That link on parasites is targeted for a specific audience….
If people have mental conditions that they are not treating, and nobody is in their lives to advocate for them, their mental conditions can render them incapable of discernment, making them susceptible to be easily swayed into the wrong directions. That is how unconventional medicine stands to benefit from such patients. If they are not endangering themselves, or others, and they’re completely comfortable with their beliefs, they don’t interfere with their enjoyment of life, and they have the money to spend on unconventional treatments, it’s fine with me if someone goes for it. Do many morgies fit that picture?
I agree.
Starlink - great link you provided.
Unfortunately, I seem to be in the “too hard basket”. I would take the Antipsychotic if I could. I can recall when I used to take my antipsychotic dose at night time, and then get into bed, I could feel a “seizure” coming on. Now to me I find it really strange that a person can have a resting, lying down seizure. Maybe this is common, and doctors have heard of this, but I am not a doctor, so I wouldn’t know.
Does anyone know where I could go to get some of those tests done?
Would my GP know? I am scared to ask her? I think, she thinks I’m a NUT!
Maybe I did fall out of Macadamia tree!!!
I need a laugh today Michael -
I feel like I have another head cold,
see I told you, I have had a bad cold all along, that’s all!!
What is the CURE for the COMMON COLD???
Sorry about that, I meant to also say: What CAUSES the COMMON COLD??
Feeling rather Nutszo today!!
That cosmic wave came a drifting through this house last night, whoa whoa, two people under the same roof having the same thoughts ie. “same songs in their head”.
I need Al to come get me on those two “milk crates” he was talking about. He said we could ride the cosmic wave together on milk crates!!
And now Tony is getting the “sensations of dying” - OMG!!
How many more dinner plates are going to be smashed in this house?!! I didn’t smash the plate on purpose last night, it was an accident, I went into seizure whilst eating my tea. Tony was “extremely” intoxicated, and I end up flipping my lid!! How can that happen and why the heck does it happen?
I said to him, pull yourself together mate, I know it is tough, but I will not have you being a complete “ninny” at the expense of my mental health.
You know I said to him a while ago, it is probably people like yourself that needs to be on an antidepressants or something, but how the hell would you or a doctor know coz you drink alcohol all the time.
How many woman in this world have, or are close to going insane, when maybe it is the person they are with that needs a good mental health examination.
I dunno, just trying to way this whole stupid situation up.
Oh yeah, the “jumbo jet” noise is really bad in my ears. Could be the antibiotic I am on doing this hey??
Maybe ET’s spaceship approaching!! hehehe
Michael, I woke up with this song in my head. Could it get any crazier for me??
http://www.noolmusic.com/blogs/Youtube_Comedy_Video_-_Benny_Hill_-_Ernie_the_fastest_milkman_in_the_west.shtml
Let me know if anyone needs “translation” after listening to that link.
I am fluctant in the “Northern English” language!!
Going to recharge my batteries this afternoon, and cuddle my folks new puppy!!!
Scurvy
http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/common/standard/transform.jsp?requestURI=/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/scurvy.jsp
Me again, sorry, I am obsessive compulsive today, and I can’t spell!
My shrink was rather concerned some time back that Tony could develop Scurvy.
Michael - Do you know if Scurvy is contagious?
I just get really concerned for myself with being on a steroid still. When Tony lives on a bottle of Vodka a day, of course, he gets extremely run down, even though I try to pump him with good food. He started with a “husky” voice a couple of days ago. This has happened in the past, and then, I end up feeling like I have a cold. The inside of my mouth also feels extremely ulcerated. No wonder really, I keep biting the insides of my cheek and my tongue.
This has been a pattern also in the past for me when my speech deteriorates, I bite the inside of mouth whilst talking, BUT if I rage and yell, OMG!! it is worse! Reminds me of how my dad used to be when I was younger, he could be very vocal at times, nearly lifting the roof off the house!!
My Dad is the greatest!! I know I have his strength, and for that I am so grateful.
I am gonna raid my mums lemon tree today, best source of Vitamin C. (well I think so anyway).
Smileykins - I read somewhere on this blog the other day that you had written about me thinking that me and my cat Sally were on remote control. Well guess what? I haven’t asked Sally today how her brain is feeling, but ME, oh LORD!!
Michael - Can you get on the phone to NASA,DARPA,HARP - please, and ask them if they could turn my switch off!!
My Head Hurts…
Michael - Is it you?? You naughty computer programmer!!
I just wanna break into song all the time!! Is that normal???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew
I need a RUBBER ROOM!!!!!!!!!!
Doctors Give Hope To Patients With Long Histories Of Unexplained Symptoms
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/22/health/22symp.html?ex=1313899200&en=5cbb2530edd28076&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
I’d covered that before.
http://morgellonswatch.com/2006/08/22/morgellons-cure/
Gillian, nobody is doing anything to you. At worse you’ve had some inept treatment. You are just sick, it’s your mind and your body doing it, not anyone else. You are not going to find any reasons here. You are responsible for your own future.
Have you actually done CBT? What happened?
MG,
Sorry about reposting that same link. I forgot that you had already posted it.
TC
Michael - Good to know no one is doing anything to me.
I gotta tell you though, the human brain is pretty damn amazing!
I was explaining to my parents this afternoon that my mind does really weird things, I said its either the Aliens on there way to earth!!lol or I am going through the dying stage. I do want to die, my mind is just playing tricks with me, that’s all.
I am doing my CBT Michael, that is why I come here everday!! You did say you were happy for me to post anytime I like, and I am very grateful for that. I type fasting than I write, and I need validation, which has been the way I have been my entire life, dunno why.
I also took your advice on the negative and positive thoughts. As soon as I get a negative I try really hard to replace it with a positive.
I am listening to my parents and I am listening even harder to my dad. The three of us had a really good “deep and meaningful” chat this afternoon. Dad has asked me to try really really hard to not argue or rage with Tony. He said you CAN NOT reason with an Alcohol while they are drunk. I know that, I have read about it. I explained to Dad that when my pain threshold becomes overloaded, and the journey I have had for some years, I lose the plot totally. He understood 100% because I am his daughter. Anyway I promised him I would try. BUT of course I came home from my parents place and walked into this house and it was like being hit by a cloud of depression lingering in the air.
Tony was in bed watching TV and it was only 7pm!! I made him get up, and made tea for him. And once again he got yet another lecture from me. I beg him, and plead, and yell and scream to just remember he is NOT the only person in this world with health problems. I said, “do you think I would have done what I am doing know for 2 solid years IF I did not think we would ALL in some way benefit.” I keep telling him WE do not have the same disease or illness. I said that he is suffering from Liver Disease due to alcohol abuse and as my dad said today, alcoholic poisoning because he is never sobber these days, which is true actually. My dad said he needs to be pulled over by the cops and breath tested. He said the cops would have to lock him away because a person like Tony is a dead set closet drinker and drinks to totally wipe himself out and nothing more.
I know my dad gets upset with Tony, but understandably. My dad views alcoholism as extremely sad, he really does like Tony, he just wished things were different. My dad can’t understand why he himself gets pulled over all the time for a breath test by the cops and he doesn’t even drink!! Dad and I both understand we are living in a mad upside down world, but what can you do, but try to get on with life.
I still feel bad for “dumping” on Tony, but I am just trying to make him see, he needs to respect and love himself, because he really is such a wonderful man.
Michael - I asked a question of you earlier, which was; Is Scurvy contagious? HA!! I laughed at myself this afternoon when I reaslied what I had said. Of course scurvy is not contagious. BUT I reckon if you live with someone who has scurvy that would then put me at risk of other viruses and infections. As my mum put it today “you could end up with all sorts of terrible infections, and parasites, given how sick I am and not to mention being on a steroid.”
My parents understand this world, they always have, they have been through tough times themselves, my god we were so poor when I was a baby, we had nothing. These days my parents home is like Buckingham Palace!! - filled with so much Love. And as for Daisy the little puppy, she is totally in love with me, and vice versa. She went absolutely crazy when I arrived at there place, and we have only had her a week. Daisy is what I call the “fountain of youth” I felt so good to have her curled up my lap, I felt energised from her. I gave myself Reiki whilst I had my hand on her body, don’t know if it really does work, but I have practiced Reiki on myself for years, and it felt good, so why not hey?
Michael do you know what is really hurting my parents at the moment more than anytbing??
They said all they have seen over these past 5 years of me living with Tony is him telling everyone else ie. our friends, MY friends, and even his doctor/S all about me and my illness, namely mental illness. Has never told them about Rickettsiosis Spotted Fever Group, even told the neighbours that it was anxiety attack I had when I went away in an Ambulance 3 years ago. I feel ashamed to even look at the neighbours.
Tony tells me last night in his demented state, that he himself is just like “Saint Anthony” - who was actually the saint of “hopeless cases” .
Over tea this evening I was angry as I said before, and I told him I was the “Virgin Mary” (joking of course!)- “so pull ya finger out Saint Anthony and stop complaining”. I made him book into the doctors for an appointment. His voice sounds terrible, he is coughing, and his ankles and feet, OMG!!
I need HIS doctor to tell him to pull his finger out. I refuse to go to Tony’s doctor to tell him how sick I am, then I WILL look like a maniac. I am not responsible for getting Tony off the alcohol. Tony is responsible for himself, just like I am for myself. But I am sick of him hitching a ride to heaven on my back. If I am in fact dying I would much prefer to surround myself with love and my family. Tony is losing the plot and putting a lot of people in danger, namely hiself. He went and abused the “quack” the other day, shouting at him for nearly killing me, of course the quack denied what he had said, and then accused Tony of being drunk. Tony said the doc looked like the devil screaming across the desk at him, anyway they called the police and Tony ran out. Than he goes over to my dads place, swearing and carrying on stinking of alcohol and wants my dad to debrief him. I couldn’t listen, I just ran around the back garden with the pup (and then fell in heap with exhaustion!!!) Poor dad he ended up comparing his cancer to Tony’s drinking, whatelse could he do but to try and calm to man down, dad did this for ME.
Anyway dad said to me today if you can stick it out with Tony until such time you will come out the hero love. I thought that was nice. He knows I can not turn my back on Tony, and he doesn’t want me to either. Alcoholism is so complex and isn’t easy to give away, as I have witnessed, and I am not very impressed with the “so called” support that is out in the community for people like Tony. I know they have rehab places and so on. He has done this, but his brothers and sisters made him, it was when I became really ill. Tony found it hard because he was in the rehab place with people very different to himself, drug addicts (legal & illegal drugs), as well as other alcoholics.
I do understand Tony doesn’t want to go back in a rehab. place. I had a similar experience in the Psych. ward. Anymore than 3 days in that place and I was sure to be given a frontal lobotomy. As Tony used to say; “I’d rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me.”!!! He is a funny guy.
I was treated like a piece of dirt in the psych, ward, so were my parents. They had to bring me in a bag of clothes (which Tony had packed for me, and sent me dirty clothes and undies!!!) and they were only allowed 5 minutes with me. The male nurse on duty took my bag, which was searched and all my vitamins that Tony had packed were removed. On discharge I never got them all back, and was given someone elses bottle of Vitamin C tablets, I threw them in the bin when I got home. See my disability pension keeps doing full circle.
Even my purse was taken from me. I had to ask for some money from my OWN purse so I could phone my family on the public phone.
I was given two times the amount of antipsychotic than I was used to whilst in there, which totally knocked me out. I think my shrink may have spoke with that hospital,can’t be sure though. In my heart, I think, maybe that is why I got out sooner. He would have said something, but in a very clever way, he ain’t stupid, but he is very smart. Tony didn’t even visit me, he told me that he had to do time in rehab. so it was just the same. NO it wasn’t.
There were NO boundaries between the psych. nurses and the patients. For example I was woken at 11.30am by a male nurse standing at the side of my bed saying to me my mum had rang, and my shrink had rang. It was a real shock to wake up to a young guy (rather good looking too) and I looked like the hunch back of notre, no hair on my head and fat and swollen!! OMG!! Did I cry a river in there. The nurses let me sit on my own in the lounge for 2 hours crying, and I didn’t even know where the toilet was or where I was going to sleep that night.
The other patients in there were so so sick, but ever so nice, the ones that spoke anyway. Some of the patients reminded ME of that film “Awakenings”, broke my heart. I remeber this guy, he was so good looking and could he play the guitar wow! He was crying one night, his female psych. nurse wouldn’t listen to him play! I offered to listen, but he was too upset. He told me he really liked me, and was so grateful that I listened and showed that I cared for him. I told him he was worth caring for. He said to me, “you shouldn’t be in this place Gillian.” I said, neither should YOU.
I couldn’t get over the other men also, with terrible scars on their neck, from I guess, too much ECT treatment. My god!! it saddens me to the bone to even think about it now.
I was sent paper work from that hopsital after my discharge; a questionnaire on the quality of my stay at the hospital. I never finished completing the forms,I became too sick. Doesn’t matter now anyway, the world can read about it on Michael blog site.
The Psychiatric Hospitals and the Psych.nurses need a major kick up the bum. Staff members getting in line for a meal, BEFORE the patient is NOT ON in my book. Some patients missed out on food, coz some stuck up 20 plus year old male nurse was a pig and went back for seconds!!
Get this for bad hygiene; This guy (worked for the hospital) who I witnessed emptying the rubbish bins in the morning was then seen cooking toast for the patients with NO gloves on. I worded up the girl I shared a room with. She had seen him also, but she saw more than I did, apparently he did NOT wash his hands after doing the rubbish. She told him off and to put gloves on!!! I was so proud of her, we had a good laugh about it later. Don’t you worry, I made my psych patient stay a memory I hoped, one day, was going to be put to good use, and that was to tell someone, that those poor patients were so very ABUSED!
Hehehe!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC6-5yVBhIk&mode=related&search=
OMG!! I am so glad I went back and re read some posts, ya know me and my thick skull!!
I do “NOT” want to die is what I meant to say. It has to be those darn Spirochete in my head twisting everything around and upside down. They even do it to me when I try to spell. I have had this problem my entire life, I get silly little words mixed up, my dad has done the same his entire life, does that mean he has Lyme also??
I dunno, he looks and is far too fit and healthy, but who knows?? I know he has cancer.
Weird?? - “Medicine & Science” I tell ya - what a bloody mess.
What causes Anxiety???
Good question.
In the past, some have referred to Anxiety as: “A pain you can’t define caused by a fear you can’t explain”.
I am certainly not anxiety at the moment, but I sure got sugar cravings, gotta go my fingers are sticky, I’m eating a jam donut, I can’t help myself!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AygiPO2Y27s
Someone introducing himself as a doctor has been visiting Lymebusters Morgellons Forum. He uses the name, gobucky. Some of the Morgies havn’t exactly given him a warm welcome, but so far his posts havn’t been deleted.
Morgies tend to share a common problem. They mistakingly think they know more than the doctors, and are supposed to enlighten them, and bring their “so-called” knowledge to the world. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
They have misunderstood their experiences and observation, even mixed reality with illusion. But they won’t/can’t listen to reason. They’re hopelessly bound by their delusions.
Tall Cotton
Michael - you keep saying over and over that derms are looking at patients’ skin. You saw the derm in the clip. Did he take out a magnifying glass or a scope and really examine the skin? No, he looked at it from two feet away, just like Wymore said.
It’s really sad when Patti, or one of the other memebers of Lymebuster’s Administration, reinforces the delusions of their members. They’re as sick, if not sicker, than the rest, and although they’d never admit to it, they are a cult.
But others look up to the leaders, and although their beliefs about Morgellons are flawed and twisted, the followers respect and praise them. The blind lead the blind, and they’re all in a pit of darkness.
TC
Pez - watch the clip again. Judging by their interaction it looks like a follow-up visit, so the dermatologist is just checking the extent of the skin problem, probably after treatment. But regardless, patient examinination generally last at least a few minutes, so you can’t judge anything froma few seconds.
The problem here is that you seem to be jumping to judgements of dermatologists’ treatments of patients based on a few out of context seconds of a doctor-patient interaction with someone who did not even seem to be claiming to have Morgellons.
Is this how you generally form opinions of things? Think about that for a while. Does a little thing turn into a big thing in your mind? Do you base things on flimsy evidence? Do you actually reject “evidence based medicine”?
Dear Michael,
I don’t know whether I was born stupid, or maybe I am still working on it.
I need to see my doctor asap. Tony just phoned for me and she said “what’s wrong now!!!”, he told her “I” felt as though I was getting a virus. She can’t see me until Thursday 1.45pm.
I had an awful nights sleep, so did Tony, he was apparently awake all night. He said I sawed(snorring)down the entire “Amazon Jungle”. All I remember is waking up coughing and wetting the sheet. I got up and put towels beneath me my butt. But this went on all night.
The only way I am able to calm my thoughts down is to tell myself - “If I have to get to the stage of collapse and an Ambulance has to be called, so be it”. As painful as it is for me - whatever is meant to be will be.
Gillian
P.S. Tony just remembered something the doctor told him.
My urine sample came back from pathology. It grew nothing.
This can not possibly be all in my head???
TC, if Morgellons ceases to “exist”, then Lymebusters becomes irrelevant.
It doesn’t surprise me that LB admin reinforces the Morgellons myth. No one wants to become irrelevant, and they’ve invested a lot of time into becoming relevant in the first place.
Hello Pez,
I’ve read some of your comments on lymebusters forum, assuming you are the same Pez. Wow, those people over there are getting farther and farther from anything resembling the truth.
Morgellons fibers have been determined, over and over, to be made of cellulose, like that in cotton. And it’s obvious, to me, from some of their micrographs, that they are nothing more than clothing fibers.
But, some nut comes along and says that they don’t burn at 1400 degress, so they think that the fibers are glass. Well, that persons fibers may have been glass, from fiberglass contamination, but the next person that comes along may have cellulose rods, like those in rayon.
Another nut comes along and says its high density polyethylene, like that in prosthetic joints. Oh, she had a prothetic joint replaced. And it doesn’t matter that some of the material has migrated. There’s a hidden agenda, and this material is like what was used to encapsulate, was it macrophages? Well, the company that performs the spraying, says, “oh, baloney”. But the Morgies run with it.
Morgies aren’t gonna get well until they start ignoring their stupid fibers. They aren’t related to any disease process. I know. Wymore says differently. The problem is, Wymore doesn’t have a clue.
Some of the Morgies agree with Mickelson, but he doesn’t even agree with Jan, although they seem to be working together. She thinks the problem is self-replicating nano-fibers. Well, or does she believe it’s HDPE. It’s hard to tell, one minute to the next, what she believes. And cliff thinks it GM cotton.
These people don’t seem to have a brain between them, and none of them seem to agree. The truth is, it’s all a bunch on nonsense. They all seem to be quite ill, mentally. If I was a doctor I wouldn’t take any morgie patients. They won’t listen, and the won’t follow instruction.
Tall Cotton
I think doctors have legitimate reasons to feel concerned if any morgie patients really sense apprehension in the air from them. Given the circumstances, they know the chance of a volatile situation erupting, but I’ve read many morgies misinterpreting it as doctors being fearful of catching something from them. Convinced that they’re smarter than all the doctors they’ve seen is a waste of time and effort, for everyone. But when they do give up going to them, look at what happens. This situation is just so astoundingly sad.
I’m an Internal Medicine physician with a bread and butter outpatient primary care practice.
Its clear Morgies are suffering mightily, and its clear that this condition is not something they’ve wished upon themselves. I DO think this is an organic disease, but (IMO) its not dermatologic. I predict that Morgellon’s and allied conditions will ultimately be shown to be caused by a specific abnormality in the central nervous system that causes a highly compartmentalized inability to correctly interpret normal sensory input. The word normally used to describe this is “delusion” but over time this word has become so loaded with negative connotation, its use results in an immediate turn-off among sufferers.
I believe that a doctor with the time and energy to promote the above theory in a compassionate, non-judgmental fashion could really provide these folks a great service — and save them from spending their life savings on quack remedies. Unfortunately, I don’t think I am that person.
Gobucky,
Welcome to the blog. I mentioned your visit to lymebusters in comment #52, above, and noticed since that time, that you had apparently bid the Morgies farewell. If that’s the case, I certainly don’t blame you. They’re a very hard group to get anywhere with.
The Morgies seem seem to be suffering from a variety of physical disorders, and many of their reported diagnoses confirm this. And, in addition to that, they seem to be misiterpreting their experiences. Their delusions, and the pain, itching, and fear of the unknown seems to have also caused other associated mental disorders, anxiety, depression, OCD, BDD, and the like.
We’ve been trying to help the Morgellons sufferers, but we havn’t been able to convince them that Morgellons is a new disease, or anything other than DOP. On their forums they reinforce each others delusions and strengthen each others fears. They also, quite literally, leave a path of destruction behind them. They seem so impossible to deal with, that we’ve mostly hoped to get through to some of the people who havn’t yet decided what they believe about Morgellons.
Tall Cotton
I meant to say that we havn’t been able to convince them that Morgellons is not a new disease.
TC
Gobucky,
If abnormalities in the CNS is causing DOP, is there any other medication for treating these tactile hallucinations besides antipsychotics such as risperadone, olanzapine, or pimozide?
Tall Cotton
In my opinion, they redefine the word, “suffering”.
South,
Not that I expect you to reply, but your PSYCHOLOGIST did a complete physical exam? That’s a bogus exam. Your psychologist has no training in giving a physical exam, more, it’s negligent for them to even give you the impression that it’s a valid exam. A psychologist and the lady at the cosmetics counter in the mall could do an equally fine job– but who’d be less expensive?
Starlink, your request for credentials is excellent! We’ve asked Southcity several times about his/her credentials. We’re all waiting with great anticipation to be blown away by both of your extraordinary credentials.
Yes, and you know, perhaps since South & Norman have always been so evasive, and avoid answering even the simplest of questions, they’re really both top secret agents, hehe.
To a certain degree, I respectfully disagree with this, TC:
“…Seems to have also caused the other associated mental disorders”, but, because this is a very complicated situation, with many intricate facets involved, we can’t tell whether the mental disorders, coexisted, and were untreated, or under-treated, in this group of patients, but, to me, it seems that that they were already there, to begin with.
But they have it ALL COVERED, as ” have been or will be diagnosed”.
As the MRF states, “Behavioral effects are common in many patients. Many have been or will be diagnosed as Attention Deficit Disorder, Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Bipolar Disorder, or Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. A minority do not show this pattern. ” Also, they state, “Although skin symptoms are of particular interest to this foundation and are extremely troubling to patients, they are also a vital clue that something is terribly wrong with the body. More significant than skin symptoms, in terms of the diminished quality of life of the individual with this illness, are symptoms unrelated to skin, to include Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS), Fibromyalgia (ME), joint pain, and significant problems with concentration and memory.” It also reads, “Some patients have been diagnosed with Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, Multiple Sclerosis, and other well-known and recognized disorders.” And last, but not least, “Nearly all (95% of) adults with the symptoms of this skin disease have received a diagnosis of DOP or Delusions of Parasitosis.”
Considering that those symptoms and diagnosed disorders were taken from the MRF site’s registration process, which, as thinking people know, does not mean that everyone who filled out the questionnaire is included in the sum total of what continues being publicized as the amount of “victims” with this malady, that is also not an accurate description of symptoms to attribute to this “new disease”. The mental effects are profound, though, and obvious to all of us.
Smileykins,
I should have said, “added to”, instead of “causing”. They also exibit other mental disorders besides those I listed.
Tall Cotton
There are many underlying problems that can cause Secondary Organic DOP, as we both know from our past experiences. But, even though we saw things as far out as many morgies do, we didn’t have the seemingly overpowering need for sympathy, or of needing anyone to believe us, nor did we carry on so hatefully with people we love, as well as with strangers. There are a lot of certain things that set many of these patients apart, and they just can’t see it for themselves. I don’t think a lot of them even know that people, even those who love each other, can disagree and it isn’t anything bad. Disagreements are opportunities for open communication, to lead to the resolution of problems, not a chance to argue who is right or who is wrong. There is a very, bad communication problem that appears to exist within this set of patients, and that tends to also make me believe that there is a lot more going on, in either them having the Primary Psychotic, or the Secondary Functional forms of DOP. It’s a mess to try sorting out, and only they, or someone with privy to their medical records, knows, one way or another.
Sorry, I take that back. Nobody can get properly treated without forming a relationship with one primary physician. By bouncing to so many doctors, and as confused as some patients are, perhaps nobody knows what they have going on mentally, or physically.
One thing seems to be certain. We have seen several other mental disorders in the group. Most of the users of biology online, fiber disease topic, are schizophrenics. They have some of the most insane paranoid delusions. The folks at lymebuster are a mixed bag, but they’re all delusional. It they don’t address their mental disorders, and continue to reject their various diagnoses, they aren’t apt to get well.
TC
Sarah B. Dunn,
I apologize for criticizing you that time that you pointed some things out to Gillian (Sarah Connor). At the time, I was trying to go easy on her, and change her way of thinking. Obviously it didn’t do any good. She flips this way and that, like a pendulum. I have since then given up on trying to get any lasting results with her. Thank you for joining the discussions.
Jeeezlouise,
Welcome back. We missed you. Have you been out grave robbing? Just kidding! I know that you restore grave markers, and I consider it a very thoughtful and important service. If you find any gold teeth, or anything, jewelry, etc., count me in as a partner. Just kidding again.
Tall Cotton
I would have given up on me long ago too.
I do flip and flop all over the place and it is horrible. I am aware of my mood swings, which leaves a big knot of shame in my stomach that I have to sit with for the rest of the day. I feel eccentric at times, but I am fun to be around, I love to laugh, even though I am so disabled at the moment. I have nothing else left to do but to think nice thoughts, laugh if I can, and listen to my music. I am living on my good memories, to get me to whereever I need to go, because I have no idea what is happening to me, and I am so tired of being scared I keep telling myself to let go, but I don’t want to stop fighting. I am in constant arguement in my mind 24/7. All I need is a doctor to take a look at me, to put my mind at ease. If this is all in my head, then prove it to me.
I am not sure if you are interested in my opinion of my symptoms at present, but here goes.
I think it was the antibiotic I just had. I should know I have sucked up an entire river worth of antibiotics.
The last IV treatment I had brought me close to 2 days away from dying according to that “duck” - he was right on that one.
I think doctors just look at me and assume I am on drugs. Well they can assume all they like. Let me tell you, anyone who is put into a position like this will want to take drugs. But it will end up being a no win situation. There is no escape whether you go up or down. Plain and simple, sick and I have no idea why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chqfe3lYdFw&mode=related&search=
I will give you a quick example if I can:
Yesterday I watched “Jamugi” (sp??). This was my 3rd attempt to watch during this illness. I wanted to force myself to rest on the couch.
The two children in the movie are called “Alan” and “Sarah”. Well I thought of me (Sarah Connor) and Al in Tasmania. I didn’t freak, I just had a big sigh and said to myself I wish this would all stop.
Looking for “home” is exactly the only way to describe my sensations. Reminds me of the old people I used to work with, suffering from Alhzeimers. The behaviour I have had recently with yelling and swearing foul language reminds me of an old lady one time. She was an actual “Lady” and about 102 years of age, it was so sad to here what came out of her mouth when the nurses tried to shower her. It all makes sense to me now, their pain must have been horrible and their fear…of that breaks my heart.
To feel as thought I can predict the future is a thought I would rather not entertain. At times it becomes quite over powering. To feel as though you can read someone elses thoughts is also very frightening, but it happens. I feel as though I am slightly in the future, or living in the death. How else can I explain rejecting from everyone, more so from my family.
My theories get even more way out, but they all make sense to me. I exhibit lots of diseases from A -Z but nothing shows in my blood. I mimic everything. I have thought Lyme disease for a very long time, but 2 negative blood tests. I just keep going around in circles.
No one deserves to die a slow miserable death, especially on their own.
Michael -
If you honestly believe that dermatologist used a dermatascope to look at that patient’s skin at any point, you’re delusional.
If you honestly believe that a dermatologist is capable of determining the composition of a microscopic fiber by eyeballing it with a microscope, you’re delusional.
Not sure what you all want to know about me. So in a nutshell, I am a 36 year old white male and I live and work in the San Francisco Bay Area. I have an associates degree in environmental science and a bachelors in mechanical engineering. The california courts have considered me a credible witness and friends consider me loyal and honest. Although most do not understand why I do not come around as often as I used to, and unless asked directly, do not divulge much about my reasons why not. I am still currently employed and have only missed a handfull of days of work because of this illness, but this in fact is related to the fact that I am self managed and work as independantly as I wish to. If I had to worry about spreading this illness in, for example, and office environment, I likely would have resigned years ago. When I am not working, I like to build or restore things, my current project is a classic jetboat which is now finished to the point that when i jump on it, will make your knuckles turn white from holding on too tight, and gets your adrenaline pumping in a way that only going 110mph+ on the water will give.
I am an ordinary person who likes people, is charitable and often roots for the underdog. And here is the Biggie. I could be a friend or coworker or acquaintance one of anyone who is reading these words.
Ok, now its your turn
What are you saying Pez, that dermatologists don’t use dermatascopes?
You are suggesting that dermatologists are trained to recognize certain signs, like the matchbox sign, that actually preclude the need for a skin examination?
That’s just silly. Show me one Morgellons sufferer who has never has their skin examined.
Me!
I paid $170 to go to a Dermatologist this year. I didn’t want to go and see him, the quack sent me.
The Dermatologist I saw got me to sit on the examination bed and he had a scope thing in his hand, and it had a light. He looked at both of my arms (I had a singlet type top on so he could see my entire arms and chest). He also looked at my breasts because they have some very tell tale signs. This took in total, I guess here, a minute if that.
The he asked me to sit in the chair, cross my arms across and my tummy - whilst he took 2 photos. The only help he said he could give me was some cream to go and ask the chemist to make, which was Menthol 1% in an aqueous base cream. He then gave me the name of a Doctor at the Skin and Cancer Foundation - in the psychosomatic group. He said write to her or contact her and tell her about Morgellons Disease. I never did, I was too sick.
I got a reminder bill from this Dermatologist the other day. I still owe $10. Medicare messed me around with this account and I do not understand what happened. The account the other day said,”pay $10 in 7 days or legal action will be taken”. They can be my guest and sue my arse, I don’t care. I haven’t got the energy to pay the bill at the moment.
Yes, I am saying that. If you want to test it out, see a dermatologist and say you have crawling sensations and fibers and see if he looks at your skin with a dermatoscope.
If he doesn’t, then you can safely disband this website.
Disband the website? What exactly should I say to the doctor?
Me: “Doc, I have crawling sensations and fibers”
Doc: “what do you mean fibers?”
What do I mean? Tell me Pez, how exactly did you tell your dermatologist you “had fibers”.
Gillian claim to be an example of this, yet then describes how the doctor looked at her skin and took photos. What does she want, a punch biopsy? Why exactly?
Look at Cindy Casey’s diary - a typical account:
http://cherokeechas.com/Morg01.htm
Several times in there doctors examine her skin. Even using a “Radio Shack Microscope” as instructed by Cindy. They still don’t find unusual fibers. Of course since Cindy and Chas were convinced, they just rejected the doctors opinion, and continued on to the next doctor, happily oblivious of reality.
If there is actually nothing there, then it does not matter how much the doctors examine you, it will never be enough, they will always have fallen short. If they just look at you, they should look closer, if they look closer they should use a dermatoscope, if they use a dermatoscope they should use a microscope, if they use a microscope they should use an electron microscope, if they look once they should look twice, if the fibers look like lint they should do a FTIR analysis, if they can’t identify the fibers they should send them to a lab, if the fibers are cotton then they should investigate cotton producing nematodes…
Of course dermatologists examine the skin. But for the patient who thinks they have some disease new to science, their examinations will never be enough.
When a person goes in to see a dermotologist, complaining of creepy-crawley sensations and fibers coming out of their skin, it’s obvious what a big part of the problem is, even without closer examination. But, a derm should examine the skin more closely to determine whether there’s any real physical problems.
TC
Hiya TC, and thanks!
I did uncover a very old and intact I.O.R.M. headstone a couple of weeks ago, which is a rare find and considered a bit of a coup in my circles (yes, there are other people like me!) and managed to sneak into a historic mausoleum to snap some pictures while the caretaker wasn’t looking (it’s absolutely stunning, by the way) but alas, no gold or other tangible treasures. I will surely keep you in mind, though!
South,
It doesn’t matter whether your friends consider you to be honest or not. You’ve already proven yourself to be a liar. Your credentials are very impressive. You sound like you might be qualified to troubleshoot a robot. It’s unfortunate that you’ve gotten caught up in Tam-Tam’s nonsense.
Tall Cotton
Tall,
No worries. I know your intentions are good.
Sarah
South,
You’ve proven my point. You’re shouting for credentials, and yet, you have but an associate’s and a bachelor’s. You ask us to go on your word that you are honest and trustworthy.
I don’t even mention my associate’s, but I have one in science, and a bachelor’s of science, and I’m in a clinical graduate program. I have been asked several times to be an expert witness, but decline, as I want to avoid the court system, in the footsteps of the prestigious scientists I wish to emulate. People who know me say I’m honest and trustworthy, people who don’t know me say I’m a CIA agent or a bitch. The people who know me laugh at those people who don’t know me.
You have proven my point, South. “Credentials, credentials, credentials.” Yet, where are yours? Some lawyer asked you to say what they wanted you to say? Your want us to go on your word that you are honest and trustworthy, while you assume everyone on this website is a spy, a government conspirator, a jerk who is trying to say you are “crazy”? Explain this dichotomy, of what you allow for yourself and “credentials” and personal testimony, and what you do not allow for others.
Why did the Dermatologist take the photos?
Obviously, the photos were not taken for my benefit?
I would like a proper physical examination thank you. I think an examination by a Dermatologist in under a minute is not sufficient to diagnose anything. I gave him all the Morgellons material like I was asked to do by my quack. Don’t shoot the messenger.
My local vet takes a great deal of time examining my cat Sally for her check up.
What makes me so different?
Do I not deserve to be treated like a human being?
That is ONE example.
Cindy and Charles obviously had the time, and money, so did what they had to do.
I think it is a little too late for me to be chasing around to different doctors, ie. “Doctor Shopping”.
Could you imagine me making a doctors appointment with a new doctor, and trying to explain any of my health issues I have had over the past 10 years since being diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, and then mention Morgellons???
I don’t think so…
Gillian, you’ve had lots of tests done on you. Blood work, scans, EEG.
Has a real doctor ever found anything physically wrong with you?
There’s no reason to ever discuss a topic like Morgellons with a doctor. When a person thinks they have morgellons, it’s obvious to an informed doctor that the individual is delusional. He therefore wants the person’s thinking to be straightened up so that he can discuss their real symptoms with some degree of accuracy. That’s why the Morgies are either prescribed anti-psychotics, or else referred to a psychiatrist. No good psychiatrist is going to give a person a clean bill of mental health as long as they think they have Morgellons.
TC
SBD, you may have missed the memo. Morgies are all “citizen scientists”
Jeeez… I missed that memo! Just like I missed the memo from “the government” telling all “scientists” to discount the Collembola study…. either I’m not on the mailing list, or, someone in the upper ranks of my vicious, diabolical “government” conspiracy club is ousting me. Shucks.
South, I have never wanted to know anything about you, other than the several times I have asked you a question on this blog. When a person brings something up, it is an open invitation for questions. Otherwise, people NORMALLY keep things to themselves when they don’t want to engage others. That isn’t the way the “morgellons disease” community does, though. Like most morgies, you just ignored me, every time, or launched into defense/attack mode, rather than saying that you didn’t wish to answer. Like other morgies, you demand credentials, when seeing opposing discussions about “morgellons disease”, and take it as a personal, direct, attack on you. You have shown a lot about yourself, on line. My first knowledge of you, was of a man coming onto lymebusters message board, reporting that he was being followed by someone he thought was behind the conspiracy of “morgellons disease”, and, since then, I have learned more of how severe a problem you appear to have. Whether you mean to lie, I have no idea. Some people seem to not know that they are. Surely you cannot get by without acknowledging, to yourself, that you have to be cognizant of the fact that you lied in reporting that you investigated Tall Cotton and me, and found out who all our past, and our current, employers are. Neither of us work, anymore, and I have only had one employer in my lifetime. The only people who have any reason to believe anything that you say are other disturbed people who make public statements about themselves that are also totally closed to discussions. You don’t see it, though, anymore than they do, apparently. That lack of accountability, on such an elementary level, is a behavior that reveals things to others. Such people as you, and other believers in “morgellons disease”, don’t have the ability to problem solve, and understand that fact. Of course, people like that can’t know fact from fiction. Maybe some really find fiction a lot more comfortable than reality. But, you truly are a gigantic fear monger, South. That, you can’t deny to yourself.
Pez? Oh, nevermind.
Sarah, I apologize, too, for the time TC referred to. I didn’t realize I was being played, at the time. I think you are really a cool chick.
Speaking of cool chicks, Jeezelouise, considering your particular interest, there are others like you, and I used to be one! Well, I still am, but can’t get out, anymore, like I used to. My father passed the interest onto me, as I believe you’d said yours has a passion for it too.
Michael, what you said about it “never being good enough” was more profound, I think, than maybe you even meant for it to be. (Oh, my head.)
Fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, body dysmorphic disorder, anxiety, depression, severe premenstrual syndrome, bruxism, irritable bowel syndrome, ? leady gut syndrome, chronic sinus mucosal disease, lumbar spine herniation, cleft/tear right hip, drop right foot ? (no idea why).
I haven’t been given a diagnosis on my skin by anyone. The quack kinda whispered connective tissue disease, but then he said scleroderma (even though my blood was clear).
To add to the above list, the quack diagnosed the following, but he never physically examined me, he just said; Rickettsia causes all of these things.
No one has ever told me Rickettsia meant cruelty, pain, and we will make sure you die an awful death??
Multiple Sclerosis, Raynards phenomonen, epilepsy.
Meniere”s Disease was diagnosed after I asked him to examine my ears (also known as glue ear).
Sorry, I remember asking the quack; “What has happened to my skin,do you think”, he said: “we call that autoimmune disease.”
Anyone know the treatment for autoimmune disease, or even a doctor?? Haha!! oh really..
Michael - Let’s look at this in a real simple, straight forward way.
My current doctor has in her posession a letter from Mr Dan Rutz regarding Morgellons Disease. Wouldn’t you think that a phone call from my doctor to Mr Rutz at the CDC in America, on my behalf, since I am so unwell, and she doesn’t know what is going on with me. Rather than it all being thrown back onto me ie. “What’s wrong now”!!
I can see the logical way around this.
Why is it everyone else is having so much trouble?