Why does the Morgellons idea persist, when there is no evidence to support it? Medical professionals say that people who self-diagnose with “Morgellons” actually have a variety of illnesses, and many have some kind of mistaken belief regarding fibers emerging from their skin. After years of people making claims of fibers, no dermatologist has ever seen these fibers emerging. Yet the idea persists.
Will it continue to persist? How will the idea evolve? We can get some insight here by looking at a similar idea, that of “chemtrails“.
Both ideas had a very similar start. People noticed something that seemed unusual to them. With Morgellons, they found if they looked very closely at their skin, then they would find tiny fibers, which they could not recall finding before. With chemtrails, they noticed that some vapor trails behind planes lasted a lot longer than other, which they could not recall seeing happen before.
Then they noticed a connection with their health. With Morgellons, they found the fibers in their excoriations, so assumed they must be connected. With chemtrails, they noticed that sometimes when the trails lasted a long time, they felt unwell, so they must be connected. Quacks move in, and begin to encourage the belief in Morgellons (or Chemtrails), so they can sell their snake-oil.
Then the theories started, with Morgellons it was a new disease, or escaped nano-technology, or genetic modification. With chemtrails, it was a secret population reduction program, or a mass inoculation, or experiment, or weather modification.
Both ideas grew on the internet. With a hundred million people on the internet, if only one in a million people agree with you, that’s a hundred people. Like-minded people group together, and discuss their experiences and theories. Eventually enough people write to their local TV station, and they get some media coverage.
Then comes science. With Morgellons, it is noted that fibers are everywhere, and you will inevitably get them on your skin and in your lesions. It is noted that the hundreds of medical conditions can give a set of symptoms that fit Morgellons, and there is no evidence of a distinct disease. With chemtrails, it is noted that it’s perfectly normal for some trails to persist, depending on the weather, and that trails just like these have been observed since the 1940s.
So, once it was explained, did people stop believing in these ideas? Some did, but the ideas live on. Hard-core believers simply rejected the evidence presented, claiming the scientists were either stupid, or part of a conspiracy. More level-headed believers simply modified their belief – now just SOME of the trails looked suspicious, or SOME of the fibers were a minor side effect. The pages describing the theories remain up on the internet, and new believers find them every day. The ideas live on.
Chemtrails is a little more advanced in its progression as an idea, and we can predict what will happen with Morgellons by looking at Chemtrails. Specifically, the CDC investigation. With chemtrails, the air-force looked into chemtrail theory, and put out a document explaining exactly what is going on. This had no impact. People simply ignored the science in the document, and claimed it was part of a conspiracy. With Morgellons, the CDC will produce a report, basically saying there is no new disease, but there is a lot of Delusions of Parasitosis, triggered by various physical ailments, and they will explain this and recommend what doctors should do. This will have NO EFFECT on the belief in Morgellons. People will either ignore it, or say it’s part of a conspiracy, or simply say the CDC was wrong.
A while ago I created this fake CDC paper on Morgellons. Nobody really batted an eye. It was discussed briefly on Morgellons discussion boards, but the actual implications of the paper were basically ignored. The problem is that the actual CDC report on Morgellons, that will probably be written in 2008, is going to look very similar to this fake paper. The reaction amongst believers is going to be the same, and the same as the reactions that chemtrail believers had to official explanations of their observations.
Until recently reading about it, I wasn’t aware that mental health care reform has been taking place under the current administration. I don’t feel that all of the people thinking that they have “morgellons disease” are really even patients. Outside of having found something that they almost seem to enjoy participating in, and due to seeing pictures of their clear skin, they seem to be fine, and able to hold down jobs. I don’t suppose any of them realize the harm they’re doing to geniunely ill patients, with what, to them, might even seem like a game. But, DOP has many causes, and I can’t assume anything without knowing anyone. I firmly believe that many of these people are in a state of crisis, though, representative of what can result from treatment non-compliance, whatever their reasons.
I couldn’t agree more. I see a lot of people self medicating with alcohol and drugs. Then they have the cheek to tell me that maybe “I am on to something” when tracking down a new disease. These are well educated people, in full time employment, some with children. I believe some of these people I know have DOP, some could very well benefit from being on antidepressants and/or even antipsychotics, but they much prefer to live in denial of their own real illness and self medicate.
The doctors see through all of this and continue to make lots of money. I needed a medical advocate long long ago, but I was that ill I could not explain this to anyone. Now I think it is a little too late.
Attempting to simplfy what I was trying to give my opinion on, I’d meant that discernment isn’t always possible when a person’s cognitive skills are challenged, and certainly not when other pathologies are also at play. The online coming together of a group of patients with nothing in common but their lack of understanding of what’s happened to them, is what’s helped the developer(s) of the myth create what the patients all think is a new disease. Due to their particular and unique inabilities to think clearly, such patients don’t need any coercion to share their experiences. I totally understand the need to share those things with someone who can relate to it, but two wrongs don’t make a right. Directing these patients to alert their local health care authorities, their government representatives, the CDC, and later, through the use of mass media, more attention has been called to their plight. In turn, they’vre increased their vulnerabilities.
To begin with, any punk sitting at their computer, wanting to play around with these seriously ill patients, can freely, and even unknowingly, do it. I’m guilty, of having accidentally done it, myself. After I’d heard about it, and was directed to morgellons.org, and lymebusters’ message board, the patients gave me the distinct, initial, opinion that they REALLY wanted to know what had happened to them. Therefore, I started sharing my past experience with DOP, in explicit detail, but all I did was scare many of them, even more, since none of them could understand anything I was trying to say. I realized, quickly, that I needed to try finding the right things to say, in the right kinds of ways, and that communication is virtually impossible.
It rocked me to my knees, too.
Have you considered the possibility that the same mental mechanism that drove your DOP is driving your righteous position on this topic?
Brian Dunning does one of my favorite podcasts, Skeptoid. He recently did a show on Chemtrails, for anyone who wants a skeptical analysis on the phenomenon.
Lynne, do you mean that you think I’m crazy, rather than understanding my concern over this horrible mess? I survived DOP, which was nothing short of a miracle, and I didn’t react to it like a typical “morgellons disease” patient, for a whole lot of reasons.
Are you the same Lynne that prematurely addressed me, without knowing that, recently, on another blog, who’d wanted me to shut up and go away?
Lynne – did you know about this website???
First of all, you don’t practice medicine without annalyzing and assessing the patient through all avenues. You listen to the patient and attempt to determine by testing and assessing to diagnose the patient appopriately and efficiently. You don’t go with your own agenda, own belief or close minded. That is not safe practice and if you have any medically or common sense to know that we are experiencing emerging new diseases and life forms due to DNA manipulation, climate change and drug resistant organisms. So whom is to judge this group that are claiming to have an emerging disease such as this. What will you do whom judge these people when you get it and feel like your life as you know it is gone? Not a whole lot when your own physician won’t even listen to you and you are a competent professional normal individual. I guess you will suffer and die. I for one, have been a fighter, assisted 3rd world countries with my medical care whom suffer parasites daily and live miserably. I have seen it and treated it. The problem in here in the US is we don’t know a whole lot about it, how to test for it or treat it. Guess what our middle eastern enemies do and have had these issues to deal with throughout their history. We as a country, NEED TO WAKE UP!
Don’t ya’ll think the drug companies are being very quiet about all of this?
With regards to Michael dismissal of “Chem Trails”: I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s working for the Government or Dept. of Fatherland Security. I have seen numerous times, with my own eyes, not one or two, but up to eight high flying planes flying criss-cross formations and leaving huge white trails. These trails are NOT the usual jet engine contrails! How do I know – because I’ve seen “normal” contrails for over 50 years, and normal contrails just dissipate, usually within a very small time frame. These “ChemTrail” contrails however, form unusual patterns and gradually turn into large banks of clouds! In fact I have seen two planes flying in the same general area of the sky, one producing little or no contrail, and another leaving huge expanding cloud forming contrails. I also have taken photos of the planes returning after a ChemTrail run, and every single one of them has been a KC-130 or similar military tanker type plane. After the sky becomes full of these ChemTrails, they quickly merge into a cloud cover, with a grey mist that gradually settles upon the ground. I have seen this numerous times with my own eyes, and so have many other people with me. Of course the AirForce would explain it away as nothing or people’s imagination – just like they did in the 1950’s when ranchers animals died, and children were born deformed, and people died from cancer, and the Govt. & Military said “No! It has nothing to do with the Atom Bomb Testing at the Nevada test Site!”
Yeah, I believe the AirForce…..
I will trust my own eyes, ears, and personal experience over some Govt. or Military Propaganda any day of the week!
Oh, wait, you’re kidding, right, Fatherland?
Any chemtrail advocate should listen to the skeptical discussion on Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe podcast. Perhaps, Da Fatherland, you should send them an email about the “truth” about chemtrails? I’m sure your evidence will withstand their critique.
Oh, the podcast is definitely PG13, for those who may be listening near sensitive ears.
What is it you think I’m kidding about? About the Govt.’s criminal behavior and lying about their nuclear testing? Read Carole Gallagher’s book “American Ground Zero – The Secret Nuclear War” 1993 Random House. It’s the saddest most depressing book I’ve ever read; it documents how Uncle Sam used and abused “patriotic” American citizens like so many pieces of toliet paper in pursuit of its nuclear bomb program…
Or that I’m kidding about the ChemTrails? I will email anyone the photos I’ve taken, although they’re no different from the thousands on other web sites.
Or that I’m kidding that the poster Michael could be working for the Government? The police and military are constantly on the web spreading mis-information, monitoring their own soldiers and employees postings and blogs, setting up “honey pot” web sites, and entrapping people. And there are literally THOUSANDS of requests daily from various Govt. agencies to the likes of AOL, Ebay, Google, cable and internet service companies, etc. etc. requesting peoples emails, records of web sites visited, items purchased online, etc.
So to have one of their minions search out a ChemTrails website and spread a little propaganda is just another day at the office.
So what is it you think I’m kidding about?
I think this all u need to know about chemtrails
I know this is really old, but did anyone else notice that Lynne accused Gil of cyberstalking because she suggested that Lynne was delusional? That’s effin’ funny. Seriously. I LOVE IT. This site is more entertaining than some Youtube videos… hey… why don’t you guys make a Youtube video? Michael could juggle something, and the rest of you could dance and/or throw things around… it would be a dramatic reinactment of the morgellons debat.
FAO: THE AUTHOR OF THE ARTICLE ON THIS PAGE (ABOVE)
THE PROBLEM I HAVE IS THIS, I CAN SEE THE MOTIVATION FOR CONSPIRACY THEORISTS TO EXIST, I CAN SEE WHAT THEY GET OUT OF IT, EVEN IF THERE END GOAL IS JUST A LAME BIT OF FAME OR ATTENTION OR TO BE ACKNOWLEDGED FOR (JUST ABOUT) ANYTHING, FOR ONCE IN THERE LIFE.
ON THE OTHER HAND I HAVE NO IDEA WHY SKEPTICS EXIST ON THE INTERNET, WHATS IN IT FOR A SANE NORMAL HUMAN,TO BE DEDICATING YOUR TIME TO WRITING ARTICLES SUCH AS THE ONE ABOVE, WHICH BY THE WAY I FOUND VERY CLOSED MINDED AND BASED ON JUST AS MUCH UNSUBSTANTIATED EVIDENCE AS WHAT THE CONSPIRACIST’S WRITE.
YOU MAKE ME MORE PARANOID THAN THEM BASICALLY, I WOULD PROBABLY TEND TO BELIEVE THEM AS CRAZY AS THAT SOUNDS BECAUSE I JUST CANNOT FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND WHATS IN IT FOR YOU OTHER THAN A FAT PAYCHECK FROM THE GOVERNMENT/MILITARY OR WHEREVER.
YOUR ALL CUNTS AND NONE OF US ARE ANY NEARER THE TRUTH, THATS THE BOTTOM LINE.
SHIT, I DIDNT REALISE……YOUVE MADE A WHOLE WEBSITE ABOUT IT!!!! HA I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST ONE PAGE.
“no dermatologist has ever seen these fibers emerge”
Because no derm is asking to be the Morgellon’s posterdoc doesn’t mean that no derms have seen it. I recall a news segment back in 2004 or so in which a dermatologist in Sausalito was picking fibers from a woman’s skin and collecting it in a container. It may have been the segment which accompanies this snipet: http://www.ktvu.com/health/4170085/detail.html
I do not recall who the Derm was, or even if he wanted anyone to know who he was. He wasn’t exactly advertising his involvement other than allowing the news crews to film him doing his thing. You seem to think that a reluctance to come forward after having witnessed a strange issue indicates that no derms have seen this. You can’t prove that can you?
I do not think the “derms” would be quite as reluctant to come forward as you suggest. If a dermatologist saw something emerging from the skin, he would not hesitate to show it to another witness, and probably would make the greatest of efforts to record it on video.
The lack of this video, and these witnesses, is the problem.
Why would a derm not video something that would revolutionize medicine? Why would he not show it to someone.
Why would 10,000 derms do this?
I don’t recall any dermatologists reporting that they witnessed fibers emerging from anyone’s skin, but it wouldn’t necessarily be anything of importance if one had. There’s nothing uncommon about fibers being imbedded within the outer epidermal layers. The layers are fluid-like, with dead skin cells, cellular debris, sebum, etc., ever shifting. Neither is it uncommon for our bodies to expell environmental fibers and other foreign material through the skin. Morgellons is a myth, and the presence of fibers in the skin isn’t necessarily an indication that the skin is diseased. The unshakable belief that these fibers are parasites, however, is a sure indication that the patient is suffering from Delusional Parasitosis. Most, if not all, dermatologists that have heard of “Morgellons Disease”, know that Morgellons isn’t real. They also know that the Morgies have, for various reasons, lost touch with reality.
“If a dermatologist saw something emerging from the skin, he would not hesitate to show it to another witness, and probably would make the greatest of efforts to record it on video.”
I disagree. I think most people don’t want to get involved. I’ll try to locate that newsclip, but it’s pretty old. Also, not all 10,000 people who claim to have Morgs go to derms; I didn’t. Oh yea, dermatologists can be women too.
TC your bull shit (or was it smiles pretending to be you?) about “fibers get embedded into skin” is just too too cute. Do the derms agree with your most astute observations? Isn’t it odd that they never say “yea, it is perfectly normal for you to have fibers embedded within the outer epidermal layers…” rather they say “that’s impossible” and then “you’re crazy.” Maybe you should school them a bit. Oh, and I don’t know that the fibers are or are not parasites–nobody does–but I, as well as many others, have not landed on that conclusion just yet either. I do know that it is normal for bacteria-laden bones to be riddled with fibers. The fibers are actually indicative of previous disease. So, it appears that there is a disease-fiber connection, but typically the person has been dead for many, many years before it appears in such a form. I also wonder, these fibers you say are “normal” to be embedded in the skin, do they all have the same chemical composition and structure? Seems to me if that were the case, the FBI lab should have been able to identify at least one of the fibers. No? Shouldn’t there be the occasional cotton fiber. Why is it always these hard to burn inorganic thingies that chose to get embedded in our skin? And how did they get embedded, as you claim? Oh yea, you probably subscribe to the “they’re injecting it into themselves” theory. I know of one such case where that might have been true, and that certainly would explain why you once thought you had Morgellons, right?
There is a difference in arguing and in being argumentative, Aherah.
A comment from last month on Cliff’s message board:
That’s, basically, dirt.
A few old comments from Lymebuster’s message board:
That’s dirt, too, technically.
Last summer’s Pittsburgh Post-Gazette story:
Wymore (and others involved in this) act like they don’t know what epidermis is all about, just like they play dumb (?) about delusional parasitosis and it’s many causes. Wymore thinks that Casey is brilliant to have gone looking, up close, underneath the superficial layers of normal looking skin for fibers. So what? Who cares about those superficial layers doing what they’re supposed to do?
As I’d told Jace, last year, they all need to go back to the basics of skin biology. Oh, but, nooooo. I think there can be up to about 35 layers of stratum corneum in the epidermis, depending on the person. The old skin that Wymore and Casey are so entralled with, is not only dry, but it’s literally suffocated from not sloughing off and renewing itself. Maybe it’s due to anemia, maybe it’s due to dehydration…maybe both, maybe neither. They ought to know what conditions their “morgellons” patients have. Okay, so that skin looks normal, to them, and isn’t broken, but, of course, there is going to be environmental and cellular debris in it. Fibers? Big deal. So what? It’s not going to be that way in healthy people, with healthy, well hydrated, cleaned and exfoliated, supple, skin.
Dermatologists hardly have the time to explain how skin works, (and we should already know that, anyway), but, maybe, if anyone asked a derm, they might explain. However, it seems that morgie people go in telling doctors their interpretation of the stuff they’ve found to be coming out of their skin, and what they expect to be done about it. The rest is history.
To coerce people who have been diagnosed with a delusional disorder into such a thing as this made up mess of calling it all “morgellons disease”…I don’t know, it’s so terrible, I can’t believe it. The heavy hand of the law needs to come down, hard, I think. People who can’t take care of themselves, need to be protected.
I didn’t say that everyone who thinks that they have “morgellons disease” has been diagnosed with a delusional disorder. BUT…anyone who has, though, knows that they have, and if they’ve registered for “morgellons disease”, and told the truth, so does anyone who’s got those confidential MRF & OSU registration records in their possession.
I’m sorry about the confusion in posting comments with our avatars, but TC and I use the same computer, and, upon occasion, one of us may not clear something before the other one posts a comment.
I’ve had some WordPress difficulties, and a previous comment didn’t post. Aherah, you need to focus, and elucidate on something you’ve said…
Smiles, I don’t NEED to do a damn thing for you, but since you ask:
So, how did that person get “glass tubules” in their skin? Maybe I’m wrong, but that certainly sounds inorganic. It seems Randy and Hildegard both found it difficult to burn the stuff–1700 degrees for Pete’s sake!!!!! Did you ever wonder how all those people managed to select the right fibers? Hmmmmmm…. Apparently it wasn’t all cotton, or anything else we know of. Maybe the military had put an extra present in that rather large syringe many years ago; they were trying to turn me into some sort of fiberoptic radio operator–ha! London, where are you?
I guess dirt is dirt, no matter how many silicon-filled polyester splinters in comes in or how much heat it takes to burn it, eh? Are there varying types of “dirt” in your book, or are all of your categories equally vague and general (there’s brown dirt, black dirt, blue dirt…). Your approach is very revealing. You seem to think you know your dirt. So, where did you get your education in dirtology? Smiles, it fascinates me how you’re always beaming with make-believe knowledge. Ya know, if I had the time, I’d come out to play with you chronic denialers more often, but I have a life.
Sorry, no more play today.
That “paper” is pure nonsense. Where does this 1,700F come from? The (20) reference points to:
Which makes no mention of it.
Garden furniture and tarps are made of HDPE, it’s not unusual, and it does not have a particularly high melting point (266F).
I had not realized exactly how whack Staninger was, see this other “paper” she wrote:
How much pseudoscience can you cram into four paragraphs. “useful bionic energy”, “repeats resonance”, “vortex in the cells”, “water molecule showed life in it”.
How can anyone take her seriously?
Um, I think pseudo-intelligence has a lot to do with this.
Have any of you even looked into this? Ever question WHY doctors aren’t talking, claiming it’s psychological, and the CDC won’t investigate it..?
People have videos on youtube, and plenty of photos have surfaced. Doctors are now looking into this at various universities. They are finding this is a technical organism, made of fiberoptic like wires. It’s not a bug or animal. There are 10 Mp3s of discussion on this here with professionals and victims of this if anyone cares to listen :
rense dot com/Datapages/morgRSPEC dot htm
There IS something going on here. Time to wake up from your little dream land where everything is ok and nobody wants to kill you…
You haven’t read this blog, huh. Yes, you can bet your sweet bippy that anybody this patient movement has caught the attention of has looked into this. I, myself, had a personal reason, due to having had a short bout with DOP one time. Briefly put, I’d developed it from underlying physical illness, so, although it was so very similar to what some “morgellons disease” patients discuss, I didn’t have many of the very common behaviors (thank God) that they openly express. Anyone who thinks they have “morgellons disease” is pretty darned far gone, when repeating how many times they’ve refused to treat what the doctor(s) diagnosed, and they call walking away from treatment,”the doctors’ abandonment of them”.
Excuse me, but, the “morgellons disease” patients aren’t exactly aware of their lack of accountability. Do you not know that the CDC was nagged into investigating?
Have you had that diagnosed before? TREAT IT!!!!
I apologize. If someone’s trying to kill you, I mean, REALLY kill you, that’s different from just being ill from untreated paranoia. Call the cops, and find a safe haven.
Hey, and get this, “Piss on Jeff Rense”.
Ooops!!! That felt sooooo good. Such sick people, listening to his crap and thinking it’s the gospel, is so sad. Well, hey, I’m on a roll, now, so I’ll go one better…all the morgies who claim to be Christians need to turn it over to God, like some of them keep saying they’re going to do. “Deliver us from this evil”, blah, blah, blah, and in the next breath, they’re back to focusing on “their scourge”. If they’d stop giving all that evil their undivided attention, and focus on Christ’s promises, He’d lead them right out. It’s an abomination to think that’s God’s plan for a Christian is to endure evil.
Now, I AM sorry for saying that, but so many morgies have that backwards.
Hmmm, a very bad anaolgie, comparing anything to Chemtrails as “false”. Chemtrails are real, they’ve been going on since around 1998, and they are there too cool the atmosphere by reflecting the heat from the Sun. No one denies this any longer.
In fact, they are gearing up to “advertise” chemtrails as a good thing, with slogans like”What’s a celebration without a few streamers?” Referring to pleasant days without oppressive heat to enjoy your partying, supplied by the now ever present chem “streamers” in the sky.
Perhaps no one you know denies it. But I think you’ll find that scientists, meteorologist, NASA, and most of the general public deny it.
See here, for example:
It doesn’t matter who denies it. 10 million closed-minded fools can deny something, even though it still exists. Hey people, the fibers are just a by-product of the self-assembling hexagonal crystals. There are crystals growing inside of us, hexagonal in shape. Watch some videos on youtube, do a search of ‘morgellons crystals hexagonal nanotech’. I have found those same exact crystals in my skin. Man, this really is some spectacular mass delusion. I wouldn’t doubt it if these people on this site are involved in nanotech; they are trying to deny this thing to the end. These guys don’t want the lawsuits that will surely come when the public finds out the truth about this stuff.
The “hexagonal crystals” that people keep posting actually look exactly like glitter powder.
It’s the exact same size, shape, and variety of materials.
Yet people think it’s something to do with their illness.