Aug 22 2006
Morgellons Cure?
In his article “A cure for Morgellons disease?”, Dr Chris Rangel says something that Morgellons believers will like:
“these patients are neither crazy nor are they faking their symptoms “
I agree, at least with the point he is making. Here’s the full article:
http://www.rangelmd.com/2006/08/cure-found-for-morgellons.htm
Here is the article in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/22/health/22symp.html
And here’s the actual study under discussion:
http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1371/journal.pmed.0030269
And the “cure” (Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Somatization Disorder)
http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/166/14/1512
Is this a “cure for Morgellons”? No, it’s an effective treatment for Somatization Disorder. That might cover a lot of the cases of Morgellons, but it’s not going to treat those who have genuine dermatological and neurological disorder, and simply mistakenly believe they have Morgellons, since they find some fibers on their skin. It might help them seek more effective treatments, however.
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What these articles do not explain is How I can pinpoint the time, the place and the likely vector concerning when all these symptoms began. No history of any type of mental disorder, college graduate, successful career and credible witness. (I have never been sick other than the common cold, am very active, and cant stand the thought of being ill or god forbid dependant on anyone).
so your articles linked are a not applicable to those who are unfortunate enough to also have what I have, and I personally do not want it, at all and would have never even thought for a second about something like this ever happening to me. Until it did.
These articles do not explain how practicing physicians who are infected, nor a researcher who is also a University professor of medicine/biology State Clearly that there is a physical disorder here. No Question. So again, I ask what it is that you stand to gain from your repeated position that this is a mental disorder? From my perspective there are two outcomes to this problem as related to you. A.) You get to gloat and say I told you so(extremely unlikely) B.) You eat crow and simply disappear to not be heard from again (HIGHLY LIKELY)
So again, what do you stand to gain from your position?
Wymore’s research to me has already diapproved his own theory. The fibers didnt match up to each other chemically and were not organic (aka alive). Which dismisses most of the stories of these fibers being alive(especailly wacko dr. “ones burrowing into my eyeball” smith). Michael is not on here to gloat, he, like myself is interested in science. I also think that like myself, he wants to make people aware that no reasonable scientific studies hav ever been proven to exist, and that just because something gets a lot of media attention that it doesnt exist either. And these mental disorders are very common and can be treated. Nother has been done scientifically to prove this exists, and what has been done has not proved anything other than pointing out this disease may not exist.
What is your history south city. Have you been treated for any mental health issues while have thing condition. Have you even tried to be treated?
South, I don’t stand to gain anything, except perhaps a little satisfaction from helping people get the medical care that is right for them as individuals.
My position is NOT that “this is a mental disorder”. My position is clearly stated at the top of the left column on every page on this site, under “The evidence indicates:”
1. The fibers are environmental and unrelated to any illness
2. Morgellons is not a distinct disease
3. “Sufferers” have a mixed variety of physical and/or mental illnesses.
South,
I thought you said that the pathogens that had been making you sick had become dormant. Have I misunderstood, or are you in remission? What are your symptoms at the present time?
Tall Cotton
People who “simply mistakenly believe they have Morgellons, since they find some fibers on their skin” are DOP if they can’t be shaken from that belief. The belief is unfounded and totally illogical. The sooner thes people accept that fact, the sooner they can be on the road to restored health.
I have seen very few Morgies that are simply hypochondriacs. A visit to biology online will, however, reveal a number people that are both DOP and schizophrenic. You can’t show me a Morgie, anywhere, that isn’t suffering from one or more mental disorders. It just doesn’t happen that way.
Tall, I think you are looking at a bit of a skewed sample. LB&BO get the more “imaginative” people.
I’ve visited other Morgellons believer’s websites besides Lymebusters and BiologyOnline. I sure don’t know where you found people that are mentally stable. Granted, I shouldn’t have used the term, “anywhere”, because I havn’t been everywhere, but I’ve been around. Until I see otherwise, that’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.
I said I wouldn’t come back here, but I feel that a statement made above deserves correction. Dr Wymore has never felt that the fibers are alive, as I’ve said before there is no cell stucture, not to mention melting/boiling points that could not possibly be organic. I’m not sure where the people on this blog got the idea that our research indicates that the fibers are alive in any way. I believe we must have gotten confused with some other entity or group. Dr Wymore is keeping a completely open mind as to the possible causes for morgellons. I’ve even asked him what he feels is the most likely scenario and he believes that for us to focus on one possible cause at this point will keep us from finding what it truly is (or isn’t- we know there is a possibility this isn’t a true disease, but we still feel that it is) So, please, when you make statements concerning our livelyhood, make sure they’re accurate. We do this for a living, not recreation and I will (if no one minds) make occasional corrections to statements that directly concern my job.
Oh,didn’t Wymore adamantly declare that the fibers are NOT industrial in origin. What does that leave other than organic? Organic, you said, basically means, “alive”. Of course, I know that that isn’t the exact definition. So, what’s left besides organic, and industrial fibers.
Jace, what is Professor Wymore investigating?
Oh, well, Jace, are the patients that this all started out with, who do think that the fibers are alive, and that they’re infested with them, and that they have something that they need to kill, and that there is an illusive pathogen that has caused all of their ailments…the ones listed in the case definition…just abandoned now, and the “newer people” who only think it’s abnormal to have any type of fiber, in, or on, their skin are the only people Dr. Wymore is now concerned with, in other words?
A Mystery Ailment Gets Under Skin
Chicago Tribune July 25, 2006
“When dermatologists say these patients are either intentionally scratching themselves or it’s just fuzz from their clothing, well, there’s no way that would be visible under unbroken skin,” Wymore said. “Do I have any clue what’s actually going on here? Absolutely none. But there’s no question about the fibers: They are not just environmental contaminants.”
———-
hwitt@tribune.com
Copyright © 2006, Chicago Tribune
In my opinion, those fibers Wymore tested, were, in fact, environmental contamination. The fact that they did not burn at 760C indicates that they were not organic. The high melting point could indicate that they are fiberglass, ceramic, carbon fibers, or slightly modified rock wool. That doesn’t necessarily mean, however, that everyone exhibiting fibers in their lesions have this same type of fiber. But these, so far, appear to be heat-resistant industrial fibers.
By environmental contaminants he means fibers that would be found normally in our environment- including industrial fibers (carpet, cotton, thread, etc). Industrial fibers would show up on the mass spec and gas chromatography and those types of fibers are definitely not shown on the databases we’ve looked at. We simply don’t know what the fibers are composed of. It could potentially be something new (or at the very least undiscovered), because the basic “environmental” fibers have been ruled out by testing. Even though we don’t know what the fibers are, I think saying they have to be either organic or industrial is ignoring the fact that it could be something new, or something that has been altered within the body. Right now we are still culturing from patient samples, but nothing definitive has shown up (other than normal skin contaminants) Once we’re allowed to do human studies I think it’ll be much easier to determine whether there is a novel process going on. I’ve been thinking alot about all this lately (yep, Michael, I’m open to many suggestions, and am constantly brainstorming what else could be the cause and how we can help). So to answer your questions as for what we’re doing now- we’re doing epidemiological studies and culturing patient submitted fibers. The ones you’ve seen on the shows were extracted from under the patients skin. I was present on these occasions and saw it with my own eyes- these are the ones we’re testing. Dr Wymore and I got lint samples from our own houses and yes, the majority of it is red and blue (which surprised both Dr Wymore and myself), but I have taken that lint and it disintegrates immediately in a butane flame. In my humble opinion this lint is not what patients are finding in their lesions, because the “fibers” aren’t even being changed at those high temps. And Smiley, unfortunately I don’t know what to say to your comment- your point is valid, and one that I struggle with daily. Since we do believe some sort of neurotoxin is causing the mental issues with these patients, combined with the fact that some of them are not sleeping for days at a time- their belief that the fibers are alive could come from either sleep deprivation, or neurotoxins. It’s really very sad. Can you imagine not sleeping for days? I spend a lot of my time talking to patients and their stories are all very similar. I try to find a common denominator between them. I tell them to keep all doctor’s appointments, and to follow all treatments. There are many who have told me they HAVE tried the antipsychotics and it does no good. Not all of the people who believe they have this are ignoring their doctor’s advice- a lot of them are following exactly what their doctors prescribe and still get no relief. This must mean something. But what? I really wish we knew.
Jace must have left, for the time being.
She said,
But no, Jace, I’m referring to the people that are registered at MRF, (and I suppose the NMO, now, too), that are described in the following link:
http://www.ilads.org/morgellons.html
Dr. Rangel’s view, (which I don’t disagree with), may cover some people who think they have “morgellons disease”, in which he quotes from Ginger Savely & Mary Leitao’s paper:
But, Dr. Rangel stopped short, leaving out this part which immediately follows those two sentences:
The largest portion of “morgellons” patients that I’m familiar with, here, over the internet, swapping their daily stories of being infested with fibers and things that cause them to be driven into thinking they have to inflict harm to themselves, trying to kill them, as well as burning clothes, furniture, and various other horrifying things, and moving from place to place, trying to escape it…
“…we must have gotten confused with some other entity or group”?
So, these aren’t the people Dr. Wymore is referring to on OSU’s website, reiterating, there…
*Donate money, time and services to the effort to find a cause and a cure
*It will be cured when enough research is done to find its cause.
What is he doing, Jace, and why is he doing it?
Pardon me, Jace. I see you’ve returned.
I don’t want to start arguments, but I do want to point out that “fiberglass, ceramic, carbon fibers, or slightly modified rock wool” would show up on the testing that has already be done. The fibers in question are not any of those.
Smiley- I just took a long time to think out that last post so I didn’t make any errors. What I meant is from what I’ve been reading on this site, many people here believe that Dr Wymore and our lab has said these fibers are alive. We have never made that claim. I don’t know what “entity” it is that said that, but it was not us. That’s all I was referring to in that sentence, sorry for any confusion.
I’m not trying to argue. I just call things like I see them. I was right about Mary Leitao, lonmg before anything came to light on her. I don’t like vulnerable people being taken for a ride that leads nowhere. That’s all, Jace. If he needed a grad study project, then fine, he chose a doozey.
I attended every single day of the US Festival. I can completely relate to sleep deprivation. A few hundred thousand people thought Steve Wozniack was a god, back then.
Jace, Dr Schwartz has recently claimed to have “identified the parasite” that causes Morgellons. That’s probably the source of the confusion.
I know you’re not trying to argue. I really appreciate your insight as I’ve been reading through past blogs. Dr Wymore did not start this as a “grad project”- when he first started looking into it he didn’t have any grad students. I don’t like vulnerable people being taken for a ride either, and the snake oil people etc, REALLY bother me. And, just so you know- I’m not doing my graduate project with Wymore, this is something that can not possibly be completed in the 1.5 years I have left. I want you to know that I respect your, Michael, and tall cotton’s (when he’s not being mean to me) ideas. You have questions that need to be asked and answered- so do we, and I believe they are pretty much the same questions for us all.
Jeeze- I’m asking this in all honesty- what happened to you after not sleeping for days? The psychological effects from that must have been pretty extreme. I truly can’t even imagine.
Wymore said…
“They are not just environmental contaminants.”
Jace said…
“By environmental contaminants he means fibers that would be found normally in our environment- including industrial fibers (carpet, cotton, thread, etc).”
Is it true that organic materials cannot survive the temperature these fibers were exposed to, and remain intact?
If the answer to that question is yes, wouldn’t that mean that the contamination would have to be environmental?
The fibers may not be fiberglass, carbon, ceramic, or modified rock wool, but those are some examples that can survive these extreme temperatures, although organic materials cannot.
Why not take a sample of the liquid that oozes from the lesions and see if this material fireproofs cotton? Why not coat some fiberglass fibers with the substance and see if it alters the signature of the gas chromatograph?
Yeah, I can imagine that too, Jace. I don’t sleep for 3-5 days & nights in a row, pretty often, due to a physical disability. But anyway, you said:
Dr. Wymore even put that into his letter to physicians. So, where did he get that? He didn’t carelessly just take patients’ word on that, same as you, did he? Nah, ya’ll wouldn’t do such a thing as that. You’re really trying to help this set of people, so we all know that you’ve interviewed them thoroughly, first and foremost, and collected all their medical records to see their prescriptions and referrals, and all of their doctors’ notes. Right? You wouldn’t dare claim to be trying to help them by not doing that, and just go launching off into some weird lab search with fibers that can go on indefinitely. Correct?
Jace, well, I didn’t get so delusional that I thought Van Halen’s show was good that last night
I wasn’t taking any stimulants, so I confess to catnapping during the event. But you do get so tired that you are very prone to ’seeing’ what the people around you claim to ’see’. Also, a bit of paranoia and ’seeing’ movement in peripheral vision.
I had the added benefits of being in a very large crowd in very hot weather (dehydration). In stressful situations - and even though this was a major concert event that everyone actually WANTED to attend, it was stressful - large groups of people tend to take on a mind of their own. When someone said that some shady government agency had contaminated the water cannons with some unknown substance that was going to do some unknown thing to everyone it touched, within minutes that was common knowledge and accepted as fact. So a huge crowd of very hot, dehydrated people did the most illogical thing, and moved AWAY from the water cannons that were intended to provide relief from the heat.
Sleep deprivation has been well studied, and is known to cause delusions and hallucinations. Sleep deprivation + group hysteria, I don’t know of any research on those conditions, but I am sure it must exist.
regards
Jace, I actually think Morgellons is more likely a demonstration of the “groupthink” phenomenon.
“Groupthink is a mode of thought whereby individuals intentionally conform to what they perceive to be the consensus of the group. Groupthink may cause the group (typically a committee or large organization) to make bad or irrational decisions which each member might individually consider to be unwise.”
Like, maybe, bathing in Lysol?
The Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink
Jace, also..
You’re working from Mary Leitao’s bogus case defintion, and, since you said that some of these patients are treating with physicians, are they not asking for sleep aids, which would also help to alleviate their itching? The mindset of most of the people, on line, that I’m familiar with, is that they want no drugs of any sort, other than antibiotics. They say that the medical community is doing a grave disservice to us all in masking diseases with drugs, rather than curing them. Yep, that is what most all of them, that I am aware of, truly believe.
I know I have a big mouth and strong opinions, but I have followed these people, here, on the internet, not knowing any of them outside of here, long enough to know what they think and say. I know you’re not at fault for any involvement you have, too, Jace. This doesn’t look good, though, at all, to me.
Maybe you can get Greg Smith to show you the one that ate his eyeball
Jace, what I don’t understand is, if you’ve done all this testing, FTIR, etc, then why can’t you say anything about the chemical composition of the fiber?
You say you know that it’s not fiberglass, rock wool, etc, since those would show up. That means you’ve got a distinct enough signature to eliminate them.
What is that signature. What were the peaks?
And, are you sure fiberglass would show up? Some spectroscopic tests require special handling for fiberglass, since the normal tests involve sandwiching the sample between glass slides, then subtracting the glass signature. But with fiberglass being glass, this leaves an indeterminate result unless you mount the sample in some other way.
See Bartick, page 3,
http://ed.bartick.net/42.pdf
And, sorry to be nit picky, but if you did “gas chromatography”, then how did you turn a (possibly fiberglass fiber) into gas? How hot was that?
hey I just discovered this website!…. I’m a little perplexed.
Why are you trying to “debunk” the Morgellons disease? Why do you think its not real
when its barely been studied? I assure you, no one’s trying to trick anyone about this.
My own health problems is the most boring subject on earth for me to talk about, but I felt compelled to make a website about my morgellons problems because I thought it was a danger. But I’m afraid to put its address here in case you use parts of it for ridicule - which you might because this disease is so strange, weird, and unlike anything we’ve ever known.
If a flying saucer from outer space landed in your neighbor’s yard, would you go over and take a look - or would you stay in your house start a website to debunk the ufo nuts????
You’re invited to spend a few days and nights at my side, as intimately as we can tolerate, so you have a chance to learn. I’ll check back here in a few days for an answer
p.s. why are people feeling a need to say untrue stuff like “the one that ate his eyeball”? I thought you scientific analysis types like to stick to accurate facts.
And here we go again ….
Tingtong, if your evidence is so compelling, then why can’t your doctors see it?
What’s so weird about fibers being stuck in a sticky lesion?
How can you be sure that no one is trying to trick people? What about a medical facility that receives 500 dollars per visit from Morgellons patients? What about a doctor that claims to have isolated the Morgellons pathogen? What about all the snake-oil salesmen on the internet? What about all of the stories that apparently keep changing to suit the need? What about the alleged misappropriation of research funds by the Morgellons Research Foundation? Do you honestly know which of your experiences were real and which were illusions?
Tingtong said, “If a flying saucer from outer space landed in your neighbor’s yard, would you go over and take a look - or would you stay in your house start a website to debunk the ufo nuts????”
If the flying saucer was there, and I could see it, yes, I’d go and have an up close look. If my neighbor was trying to convince me of something only they could see, I’d try coaxing them into taking a little drive with me. If my neighbor tried to spread the idea to a lot of other people that they had an invisible flying saucer in their yard, I would hope they couldn’t convince others to believe it too, just on their word, alone, and I would try to discourage it if I thought it was damaging to them. If they all had a good time, and nobody was getting hurt, I suppose I wouldn’t mind it.
I haven’t shown it to any doctors, and don’t plan to. They don’t know anything about it, or what to do. Yet. That will take years, because once they know more, they’ll have to make a whole new paradigm IMHO.
I didn’t say my evidence is compelling. Its usually quite subtle, yet at the same time horrifyingly weird. Weird and subtle like you think things were your imagination until they keep happening. But do I think my evidential videos are quite good.
How do we know that you don’t have non-morgellons blood bourne pathogens.
Tingtong, you haven’t shown it to any doctors, and don’t plan to, and you say they don’t know anything about it, or what to do?
Now that’s just not true, to be perfectly blunt about it. (Those are somebody else’s words, I swiped. Hehe.)
Well, the symptoms don’t match up with stuff they know or can test for. Many, maybe most people who get this spend huge amounts of time searching the internet trying to find something that matches what they see and experience. That would be a wonderful thing to find! (maybe not Ebola)
Unless you go to a doctor, how can you be sure, though, that what you have is the same thing that everyone else who thinks they have this has?
Smileykins ,
I wonder whose words you mean? Crustylesion the clown? ha ha
A few doctors are treating - we all know what drugs, and can get them ourselves, but they don’t know what “it” is, or why or how the drugs help. Garrannteee
You may think you all have the same “it”, but you don’t. Some of these people have already been diagnosed with known diseases that account for all of their symptoms. Colored fibers in lesions are not symptoms. The Morgellons Case Definition is so broad that it encompasses several diseases. Morgellons believers have a very wide variety of symptoms. Why do you think you have Morgellons?
Oh, that was one of Randy Wymore’s funny quotes. I guarantee I know that what you’re saying is true.
If your symptoms are subtle, and you can hold off seeing a doctor, what are your symptoms, and how ill are you?
If you don’t mind I ask, do you ever have to stay awake for extended hours in your domestic duties and duties as a nurse? Have you ever used amphetamines or methamphetamines to make it through your work shifts? Have you ever been suspicious that some of the things you experienced were illusions? Do you believe that as a nurse you are less likely than the average person to have a delusional disorder? Why do you feel that a new paradyme would be required to explain morgellons?
Eczema is only one common skin disorder, but it causes lesions, and those lesions are sometimes very slow healing, particularly if they are scratched or picked at. Eczematous lesions contain colored fibers, particularly red, blue, transparent, and black ones. As the body attempts to expel these fibers, they appear to be sprouting from the lesion. Fibers also traverse within and between layers of skin, to other locations. These things are also true with other skin disorders.
I’m not a Morgie, and I don’t believe that Morgellons is a distinct disease. But, I do have some of the symptoms in Mary Leitao’s overly broad case definition for Morgellons. I have memory problems. I also feel disoriented sometimes. So, I guess one could say that I have brain-fog. My eyesight is deteorating. These things are a part of aging. I don’t have lesions, but if I did, they would collect colored fibers from my environment. They would sometimes become statically charged, and seem to move on their own accord. They would appear to sprout from the lesions. Oh, I also experience hair loss. I don’t have any reason to itch, thank God, but if I had healing lesions, they would itch, and if I had a skin disorder that caused lesions, they would itch. Itching can be a sign of healing. Morgies talk about scabs. Scabs are also an indication of healing, if one will leave them alone.
TINGTONG SAID, “IF A FLYING SAUCER FROM OUTER SPACE LANDED IN YOUR NEIGHBOR
Tailcotton People who think they have Morgellons usually share a lot of unique/unusual symptoms, like the black specks, etc etc. Way more than just colored fibers in lesions.
There are a lot of websites to learn more from. It takes a lot of words to describe it, but there is a vast sense of relief when you discover your problem has a name, and there are others who understand you.
#46:I worked midnight to 8am for many years, but slept in the daytime. We used coffee and sometimes pseudafed for sleepiness. I didn’t know where to get amphetamines so I wasn’t tempted. I haven’t worked since before I got this.
Whatever I think might be weird, illusions, or hallucinations I try to photograph,
but I think this disease can sometimes cause weird vision things, in me for one. Maybe I shouldn’t have taken the LSD in 1969, after all. As a nurse I think I’m less likely to have the faith and hope toward doctors that most people have, but the omnipotence of doctors is such a common delusion that its not considered a delusion.
But seriously, now, what is a delusional disorder? I don’t have much experience with psychiatry. Do you mean like schizophrenia? I’m probably too old to get that.
I feel a new paradigm will be required because this disease does not make any sense at all no matter how long you spend trying to figure it out.This isn’t just new, its very different. I think the puzzle pieces don’t fit together because we’re working in 3 dimensions but need to think in at least 4 dimensions. (Does anyone yet know how?) This is my own thinking that I’ve previously kept to myself because it sounds kooky.
But you guys seem interested, which is like a treat compared to the people I know here.
Hi, it’s me again, Jace. You’d previously said…
I’m sorry, I know I’m a nuisance, but I wonder if you could clarify this, because I like to understand things.
l know what “environmental” means
Industrial fibers are synthetic fibers, aren’t they?
“Carpet” fiber is most often wool, which is organic
or…
“Carpet” can be industrial (synthetic) fibers
“Cotton” is an organic fiber
“Thread”, Jace, could be either industrial fibers, or organic fibers
“Etc”?
You’ve ruled out fiberglass, carbon, ceramic, & modified rock wool. You looked in the right database, I suppose.
Based on the ways you’ve said what you’ve said, so far, I’m sorry, I can’t get it to compute.
I just can’t get anywhere with that, Jace.
I’m sorry, this may be easier for you to answer for me. Was the patient’s skin intact, and by intact, I mean, it wasn’t a healed over lesion, with fibers in it, right? It was “seemingly” undamaged skin, with fibers embedded in the epidermis, or were they dermal, and, were they removed by excision?
Thank you.
Tingtong, are you completely cognizant of how “morgellons disease” came into existence, through Mary Leitao? Do you know how, and why, she did it, and what transpired along the way, for her, and for persons such as yourself, to arrive at your conclusions? I ask, because for many people, who were confused, they weren’t the least bit concerned about her background, only being drawn into this because someone “finally understood & believed”. Now, I can empathize, but that doesn’t make this thing a good thing, as it appears to be, for all the believers in it. I don’t think anybody should have unrealistic expectations of doctors, but it seems that most people who think they have this, did, including Mary Leitao, and that also helped to solidify this. When people have apprehensions about going to a doctor, they should ask someone they know, someone they can trust, to go with them. Another set of ears and another mouth can be quite handy in doctors’ offices. Do you have Lyme Disease, Tingtong?
Delusional Disorders
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusional_disorder
This is for all those “Morgellons Bashers” out there, do any of you (Smileykins and Tall Cotton) have any of these symptoms? If you do, why not put energy into finding a cure, not a reason. And if you don’t, why don’t you pick on something other than an unknown, devastating disease. You are irritating like flys buzzing around your head on a hot day,
Hi Smiley- Please don’t think I’m ignorant, but I have no idea what you’re asking me. Does it matter whether it’s industrial, organic or environmental? My point is that all of these common sources of “fibers” would be in the FBI database, because all the ones you (and I) have named are common and would show up as such. As for the patient’s skin- it was completely unbroken in that area, the physician had to scrape the epidermis away to grab the fibers. I was the one holding the dermatoscope which magnifies the area and you could see that there was no disturbance of the skin anywhere around the fiber. As for all the mass spec, etc I am not a chemist by any stretch of the imagination, so without repeating 2 years of chemistry I am not someone who could analyze that data. And as far as looking in the “right” database- the FBI database would hold all known fibers. Also, we could find out if the patient got a prescription (from medical records which we are still waiting to get based on IRB and HIPPA), we could even get them to take a picture of the label to show it was filled, but there is no possible way, short of being there with the patient to know whether or not they took the med or threw it out. It’s just not possible for us to be involved to that extent. At some point, we just have to learn to trust our judgement. I would also like to point out one more time that my youngest child has very bad excema- some days she has oozing sores all over her legs and arms and never have I once seen any sort of fiber in it whatsoever. Never. And since I’ve started this job I’ve looked and looked- if I saw that, than it would give me reason to doubt morgellons. My 4 year old who has multiple open lesions and wears colorful clothing has never had a fiber. How can you guys explain that?
Michael,
I must admit; I just saw your new blog today and only read 11 of the replies so far ( I’m late for work at the moment) but I must say that I have only gotten joy out of your blogs until I read this current one.
Yep, I’m actually pissed. Not at you; but at this lame-ass excuse…tell you what….the CDC or NIH or the National Science Foundation had better find some new material and post the results by August 31st or I’m dropping names. Not that that is a threat; or that it will do anything detrimental to those sick organizations, but I’m sure in the HELL going to fgive it my best shot.
Watchout now Communications Industry…..
Plasma, LED, Photons, Molecular, fiber optics, fibers from the sea, RNA clones, Biotech bubbles, Pea Aphids, Synthentic Vitreous Fibers, Carbon fibers,Glass wool fibers….,Magnets, laptops….., Molecular parasites, Scalpel, electrostatic, quantum cloning and….HAVE I ALREADY SAID THE COMMUNICATIONS INDUSTRY??????????????????
I’ll stop here, and no offense to you Michael, but they need to hurry the hell up. Looks like they have about 7 days….
Oh, and actually we aren’t working from Mary’s “bogus” case definition- the neurotoxin aspect actually came from us and was incorporated by them. And groupthink does not explain people who have never used the internet and saw a show or article and thought “that sounds like what I have” and they then contact us. Quite a few patients do not even have computers, so I don’t know how they can be explained by groupthink. I’m just saying… We’ve had people sending us journals dating back to 1998 before Mary started the foundation, stating the same sort of symptoms that are now all over the internet. If someone can show me where, on the internet there was any talk of this in 1998- I’d like to see it.
Jace,
If I understand correctly, the fibers were put into various solvents and the colors did not leech out. But the Gas Chromatograph, in heating the fibers up enough to get a gas signature, left the red and blue fibers black. It seems to me that this would mean that the fibers were soaked in solvents before being placed into the gas chromatograph. Question: Due to the penetrating and dissolving properties of the solvents, would the chromatography signatures of the fibers be altered? I assume that the fibers were not melted or boiled away, since the were only blackened, and since they were later placed in acid, where they fragmented, then dissolved. This would, of course, mean that these particular fibers can no longer be tested, since they no longer exist. Can you also tell me which template from the data base was used in the photograph on this discussion topic? Thank You.
Tall Cotton
Jace said:
What on earth makes you think that? If this were true, then why did the FBI just spend $134,000 on an 18 month project to create a database of just 1,800 fiber samples (which were mostly the same US produced fibers in different colors).
http://advance.uri.edu/pacer/september2004/story11.htm
You think all the fiber manufacturers in CHINA send the FBI samples of their fibers every time they change the formula? Do you now have to get a “this fiber is in the FBI database” stamp on your shipping container inspection form at customs?
Here’s a list of about 20,000 textile manufacturers in China alone, which is probably only a fraction of them, and they probably make several textiles each, does the FBI pre-approve all of their fibers:
http://www.made-in-china.com/products/catlist/listsubcat/138/00/mic/Textile.html
That “Fiber not in the FBI Database!!” is media fluff, it does not mean that the fibers are not environmental.
Jace said:
Jace, I’d like to see what you are talking about there. without seeing the articles I can’t really judge, but are you saying nobody had formication and neurotic excoriations before 1998? Nobody had ALS and DOP at the same time? Nobody had weird stuff emerging from their skin? Of course all the symptoms were there before, for the same slew of reasons, just nobody thought to make a new disease.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.crohns-colitis/browse_thread/thread/87e5050966eafb05/f7b7c73698d3c84b?tvc=2
I don’t have an answer but foreign objects that enter will always come out.
We had a patient who at seven years old had attended Catholic school. While riding home on the bus, he started chewing on his rosary and accidently swallowed the effigy of Jesus as it broke off the cross. Scared out of his mind, he decided not to tell anyone.
Many years later he had a tumor detected in his small intestine. Yes, it was the effigy and the body had formed a tumor around it.
We’ve also seen wood splinters, broken off pencil points and many other small objects expelled from the skin or covered by tumors.
Reading this site has really opened my eyes to how volatile the skin is. The really scary thing is that in the tropics and some asian and african countries, there are many more things that damage and infect the skin. Perhaps morgellons.org should change it’s name to “everythingthatcanpossiblygowrongwithyourskin.org”
And on a different note, here’s someone literally covered with fibers, who claims to have Morgellons, although I suspect pet hairs might be more likely:
http://cherokeechas.com/petinfo.htm
Sadly, this does not seem to be a joke. At least Quigleyetta is Morgellons free for now, as far as we can tell.
Dang- I just wrote a well thought out response and it didn’t send.
Short version: Tall, the fibers used for mass spec and gas chromatography are not the fibers we soaked in acid. I don’t know what template etc, I haven’t been very active on that side of things.
Michael- We disagree. Your points are valid, but my point is still that these fibers are NOT something common because if they were they would be identifiable. I don’t know how this whole thing will end. Eventually morgellons will be dismissed or accepted. I have not put my reputation on the line with this. My name and picture are only in one spot on the internet in association with this disease. I don’t want to have this argument with everyone I meet, so I have left when the camera crews, etc arrive. I want to go to med school, period. I want to be a physician and I think I will be able to be more adaptable as a physician because of all this.
I like the discussions here, and will continue to read and occasionally post, but I can’t let it consume me- my priorities are family, school and work.
Well, I agree with your point (the fibers are not common fibers), and my point is STILL (back from May, when I asked Wymore about it), that if you look at enough environmental fibers, you will find some uncommon fibers.
Your red and blue fibers don’t even chemically match each other. Which fiber is the “Morgellons” fiber?
True, but if we are seeing these same “uncommon” fibers from multiple patients- then they’re either a)not that uncommon or b)they indicate something more is going on with these patients. Yes I know there are myriads more possibilities, but I like those 2 for now. I think that the fact that the fibers are different actually indicates that they are both morgellons fibers. Like I’ve said, I’m no chemist, but I think color would have an effect on the tests that were run, and if so- red and blue shouldn’t be the same chemically.
LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!
THANK MICHAELLLONS for showing the Pet tab at cherokeechas’s website!!!!!!!!!
Quigleyetta looks to be a WONDERFUL moderator for the page!!
Something POSITIVE and FUN to boot when you check the website.
Jace - KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK that ya’ll are doing at OSU!!!!!!!! Your time and energy is awesome to have!!
Jace, I don’t suppose you could give us some indication as to how many people you have extracted these same blue fibers from? 2? 20? 200?
As the for the fibers being different colours and chemical composition indicating they are both “Morgellons fibers”, well, this logic just seems wrong.
2 that I personally watched them removed, I think between 10-20 when I was gone and 20+ that have been mailed to us.
Why is that logic wrong? It’s just one more anomaly amongst many. If theoretically we were to believe all the morgellons patients, and they all have red, blue, clear and black fibers- why would you assume they would all be chemically the same? That seems illogical to me.
The logic that an acid mantle that’s too alkaline, interfering with skin’s renewal process, and therefore, holding environmental fibers trapped within the superficial layers of the epidermis, just can’t be entertained. Ha, wonderful. Experiment on that!!!
Concerning the suspected neurotaxins, well, there are already doctors making money off of that. Will OSU be performing the tests those doctors have for determining neurotoxin poisoning? Are the patients being forthcoming as to whether they’ve used toxic substances, to bathe their skin in, as well as ingesting them, Jace?
Okay, I see what you are saying, that different colors fibers would be chemically different.
I’m saying that you can get different colors (of, say, cotton), without significantly chemically altering the material. The fact that these two fibers are of fundamentally different chemical makeup seems to me to indicate they had different origins. The chances of there being some new undiscovered entity that produces two DIFFERENT kinds of indestructible fibers just seems so insanely unlikely when compared to a much simple explanation of environmental contamination.
Of your 30-40 fibers, what is the criteria for sameness that you use?
And if you have time, a very quick question, how did you heat the fibers to 1400F? I tried some clothing fibers in a kiln at 1400F for 20 minutes, and it vaporized them. I need to find me some fiberglass.
Who are these doctors who are making money off that? I must admit you seem to be privvy to much more information than me. Right now we aren’t going to be doing any neurotoxin studies- we need much more information before we start that (and IRB approval) And actually, the patients are very forthcoming about what they’ve done to their bodies, inside and out. I’ve learned more than I’ve ever wanted to know about the things people will do when driven by desparation. I honestly don’t know how some of them are surviving their “treatments”. As for the first part of your comment, I’m fairly certain it’s sarcastic. I’m assuming this is one of your theories? And how would we go about experimenting on that when we are not approved for human tissue studies?
http://www.neuraltherapy.com/
People wouldn’t even have to be applying, or consuming, anything toxic, if their protective skin is that suffocated. Since the elimination of internal toxins is that compromised, and preventing the exchange of carbon dioxide & oxygen, people wouldn’t be feeling too great.
I don’t know how they heated the fibers. It was not done here on campus- that was done at the police lab. “criteria for sameness?” Again, I’m not the one doing the off campus studies, but my guess would be same width and color based on what I’ve seen, also there are some internal landmarks seen at high magnification. Length could be varied too easily to make it a criterion. I think both scenarios (yours and mine) are pretty equally unlikely. And I have never said the chemical composition was fundamentally different- I have not seen the graphs myself.
I’m sorry, Jace, but I’m not posting anything to promote such doctors which would serve to add onto the dilemma for this set of people.
I totally understand Smiley. I just wanted to make sure you weren’t blaming someone here. We are not making ANY profit from research and we truly do just want to do what is best.
You have probably seen some of my posts where I’ve said Wymore needed to think way back on what he learned a long time ago (you too, for that matter), and that I feel like a dermatology professor ought to whomp him upside the noggin. Well, “NO”, I’m not being sarcastic!!!! Can you tell me the reasons for not thinking about this? Caught up in the hype, maybe?
Jace, I don’t mean to be drillin you. I know only Dr. Wymore could give his reasons for why he got involved.
Jace, here’s some older information.
This article appeared in the National Examiner during late 1994.
Horrific Disease Feels like Insects are eating you alive. By: Shelby Loosch
http://members4.boardhost.com/Kritters/msg/2059.html
Elliot’s Disease
by: Sidney 10/16/99 1:57 am
“He had fiber things coming out of his hands and underneath his nails and all over his body.”
“He was convinced his little girl had this as she spoke of the fluffy things, meaning the fibers and fiber balls, but as I recall she had no lesions.”
http://members4.boardhost.com/Kritters/msg/2025.html
The basic point here is that you THINK there is some correlation between the finding of particular fibers under the skin of a person and the incidence of neuropathy related symptoms.
The evidence is all anecdotal, yet millions of people get to watch a TV show that presents this as the next big plague, with sober doctors in white coats and FBI scientists weighing in on the wierdness of it all.
Yet you KNOW, Jace, that a very large percentage of the people who think they have Morgellons are either mistaken, or simply delusional. You have corresponded with these people.
I know it’s not your job, so I’m just asking your opinion here, but don’t you think OSU has a responsibility not to propogate myths and fear-mongering? You web site says “you can help by [...] Spreading accurate information and combatting ignorance about the disease“, yet on the same page you spout the MRF bullshit statistics like “There are clusters of the disease in specific geographic regions of California and Texas”
So now I get emails like:
Maybe the OSU should fess up and say, no, they actually don’t have any evidence that it’s more prevalent in one area than another, and that practically everything on the OSU Morgellons page is unfounded nonsense.
http://morgellons.okstate.edu/index.cfm
It’s unfounded fear-mongering, plain and simple. It is hurting people.
Smileykins said:
I would hope that people could see the link I posted was obvious snake-oilery, but sadly I fear that they are still making money. The existence of this kind of fraud is another indication of how easily people can be misled, and how institutions have a responsibility not to lend their cloak of credibility to unscientific nonsense.
Michael… why don’t you just shut up for like, even a day… do you listen to yourself ever?… you may run this website, but you don’t run osu or anything else for that matter…
snake-oilry happens everywhere all the time in every dicipline… get over it… why so passionate about morgellon’s snake-oilry?… protected, vested interest?…
jace… why entertain these clowns with answers they only intend to pick apart anyway?… you have current and future science on your side, they only have a criminal’s interest at heart…
shittykins… derms are morons… why don’t you whomp yourself upside the head instead… get it on video and post it… that would be funny…
people should be concerned about where they are travelling to… the world, including the u.s., are not without hazardous diseases… biggest mistake anyone could make is asking you michael about where it is safe and where it isn’t…
so your advice to your texas friend was to do a little research first?… where?… this website?… or somewhere else?… i am curious how you would advise someone in that situation… fill us all in dr. Michael…
damn… your blog comments just get stupider everyday…
Michael, in response to that email, you should tell them that there is no evidence that Morgellons exists, just as there is no evidence that God exists (if we are to be honest here).
Or, you might tell them that on any camping trip one risks becoming infected, bitten, lost, or falling prey to any number of misfortunate events. Or perhaps they are safer since there will be little driving involved once they arrive at their camping site since most fatalities involve vehicles. Life comes with all kinds of risks; you can’t stop living because of the possibility that something might happen. If they believe in God to begin with, then additional prayers should do the trick. Then again, perhaps you shouldn’t suggest reinforcement of a scientifically unsubstantiated belief.
People can find these doctors & clinics all over the place, anyway, and do. I can’t say that if something happened to render me into a position of despair over the wisdom of conventional medicine, that I might not even, one of these days, fall victim to circumstance. I firmly believe in working with doctors, though, rather than turning my back on them. Not everyone can do that, but too many patients don’t even know anything about the conditions they have, and what to expect from them. It’s all right at their disposal, to access their medical records, and to research all there is to know, but they just don’t do it, for whatever their various reasons are. People that can’t be in charge of themselves are susceptible to anything, and especially when they need others, they think, more than they need themselves.
MAFer, I did not advise him of anything, he was relating a conversation with his friend, and the advice was his own (to his friend).
Aherah, the point was that they were scared to go to Texas because of a media scare story. One that the OSU participated in.
“shittykins… derms are morons… why don’t you whomp yourself upside the head instead… get it on video and post it… that would be funny…”
MAF’er, why don’t you kiss my ass, you idiot.
Aherah, there may not be any proof that God exists, but you’re living proof that the devil does.
Tall Cotton
My point was that the world is a scary place with or without Morgellons. It sounds like they needed to be reminded of that. In addition, I think it is obvious that there are some very strongly held beliefs in this world that science has yet to verify.
Gosh TC, I’m the devil? Funny, most who know me wouldn’t think so. Why do you? Are we back to your “being saved” as a method to rid yourself of Morgellons?
Entertaining such thoughts is not at all relevant to the existing conditions that mogie people are not treating.
Well yeah, I guess that’s it, though
Let’s talk some about credibility and credentials. Those are two GIGANTIC issues that morgies bring up a lot. Some food for thought, just for starters, morgie people…
Mary Leitao
Ginger Savely
Dr, Schwartz
Dr. Wymore
And, MAF, if you saw less than satisfactory derm doctors, Were they certified? Did you check ahead, or certainly, after, when you were dissastified? You should have reported them, and found a better one.
I wasn’t referring to religion, up above, I was referring to thought processes.
TC didn’t say you ARE the devil. Shake it up baby, twist and shout.
I was referring to Aherah’s statement, saying that there is no evidence that God exists. There may not be a way to prove it in this life, but there certainly is a lot of evidence. Yes, I am saved. I was save long before I ever heard of Morgellons. Christians can get sick like anyone else. Why do I say that you are proof that there is a devil. Well, let’s leave it this. I think you are evil, and I think you demonstrate it every time you come to this blog.
Michael, am I evil? Because I know more than a couple people who tell me not to come here because they say you are. Just as I don’t hate so easily TC, (isn’t it unchristian to do so?) I also decide for myself what to believe or not to believe about the character of people. TC if you think I am the devil, if you feel yourself in a position to make such judgments, then you must have spiritually promoted yourself. Who are you now? God?
You just come across as someone who is real tormented, that’s all, Aherah. It almost seems to defy logic, with your claims that you and your kids are doing so well, currently, with your morgie skin symptoms. You’ve gone from seeming to be a bewidered, scared, and confused, wife and mother, who couldn’t understand anything about what was happening, and who didn’t even seem to want to, back when I first encountered you, into one of the meanest persons there was on Lymebusters message board, when I used to look back in there. Nobody can change things for you, and you don’t need to be treated for depression, you have said. I’m sure you probably wouldn’t consider an anxiety problem might need some looking into, either. Maybe if you became Pumpkin you’ll feel better. I hope you do.
Not evil, perhaps a little mischievous….
Anyhows, let’s not get drawn into metaphysical semantics. Why not watch Hinkle for a while, some people will probably think she’s the Devil.
http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/08/23/nancy-hinkle-on-delusory-parasitosis/
MAF, could you stick with one user name. It would save confusion. Thanks.
MAF, I’d wondered why my opinion on what I think a derm professor at OSU should have done to Wymore caused you to say, “shittykins… derms are morons… why don’t you whomp yourself upside the head instead… get it on video and post it… that would be funny…”. I like my new name, but I like “assclown” better. I’m known around here as “Skins”, too, now. If you have seen less than satisfactory derm doctors, were they not qualified and certified? Did you check ahead, or certainly, afterwards, when you were dissastified with the first one? You should have reported them, and found a better one that knew what to do. Like I said before, I don’t know anything about your symptoms, or about your situation. Can you tell me anything, other than the response I pretty much know to expect from you, please? (You’re gonna do it, I know ya are, oh, I just know ya are.)
I do like you, MAF.
You wasting your time trying to explain stuff to delusional people. The internet has made morgellons real to them and has worsened their lives. They don’t even realize they spend ridiculous amounts of time looking at lint with microscopes and depending on a PHD (not even a real med doctor) to look into this. Not only that, but his research shows nothings that we didnt already know (fibers arent organic). I stopped argueing with these people long ago. Just like I stopped arguing with my schizo friend who beleive he has “bad blood” (long story). If they don’t want help, why bother?
I must have missed something, exactly how do you feel you are helping people? I fail to see how you are accomplishing this goal with closed minds and obvious intent.
In fact, I believe there is just as big of a story in who you three really are and who you represent, as there is in this illness. the difference being, is that finding out more about you three, will be fairly easy and not too expensive either. Shouldn’t take long to find out either. Regardless, I am certain these facts will be very insightful in relation to my original question of what you hope to gain from your position.
Uh, I am a 23 year old college student with a degree in psychology and getting a degreein business finance. Not working for the gov to cover the up the bottled water and chemtrails accidents
I know, 911. I had a delusional state myself once, for a couple of months, and it was 100% real to me, without any reinforcement. I didn’t anticipate morgies being so compelled as to want to come to this blog, to be perfectly honest. As anyone can see, from the content of their posts, they need us to be non-existent, and they repeatedly give us all of their same, usual, reasons that we should be. People aren’t supposed to think critically, for themselves, but to just believe. They seem to all be saying, “Just shut up already, back me up, and believe me, if you care so much.” Sadly, it all translates differently, and they obviously feel that others will come into the realization that “morgellons disease” is a myth, and they are afraid, it seems, that it will diminish the number of followers. I know how important increasing those numbers are to them. Now, granted, there are going to be all types of people who hear about this for the first time, and become alarmed. That’s been my motivation here, from the start, and I am eternally grateful to Michael for helping such people see the truth behind this. I didn’t expect MAF to answer me, because I’ve spent a lot of time with morgies in the past, so I know they have to be let go. I know they’re all sick, too, as most anyone can tell, and they should not accuse us of thinking that they aren’t. It has to be so hard on their families, and the people they know. They’re here, though, so I kind of pretend that they wouldn’t even be, if they weren’t here trying to learn. I know better.
broken records. Once again, Michael, for your consideration and comments
PRETORIA, South Africa — Daan Goosen’s calling card to the FBI was a vial of bacteria he had freeze-dried and hidden inside a toothpaste tube for secret passage to the United States.
From among hundreds of flasks in his Pretoria lab, the South African scientist picked a man-made strain that was sure to impress: a microbial Frankenstein that fused the genes of a common intestinal bug with DNA from the pathogen that causes the deadly illness gas gangrene.
“This will show the Americans what we are capable of,” Goosen said at the time.
http://www.16beavergroup.org/mtarchive/archives/000057.php
very eye opening as to the world we live in today. the US turned these scientists away. I do wonder how they support their families today though? And if their employers are friendly to The US. and yes, I’ve been to several physicians, from my primary( who is stumped, but does not doubt the reality of these symptoms) to referred derms to environmental medicine specialists. All stumped but are working towards answers all while using “shotgun” techniques concerning treatments and the establishment of a suseptability pattern. But because of industry ways and work load, can only give so much time to me.
so come on, attack me some more as I am sure you three have really started to dislike me and the way I upset the predictability of your analysis. And even though this is somewhat comical to me, I still would rather be doing and thinking anything else instead of this illness and you 3 goons.
South,
I don’t doubt the “reality of your symptoms”, but “if” the cause of your physical symptoms was something mental, how would you know it? You seem to be seeing enough medical experts. Are you expected to shell out money indefinitely? What’s the prognosis? I thought you said that your pathogens were in “dormancy”. Have your symptoms returned? What, exactly, are your symptoms?
Tall Cotton
Oh, now, just listen to you, South. What do mean “attack you some more”, and that you’re sure the three of us don’t like you? All you have done is ignore me, when I have expressed concern to you. We haven’t been attacking you. South, I appreciate what your mission is, in some way, feeling that you’re helping to make us aware of the dangers we have in the world today. I do think that is really all that you’re hopeful of doing, isn’t it? How are your symptoms, now, and your girlfreind’s?
South, all this talk of bioweapons is meaningless in the context of “Morgellons”, since nobody has been able to demonstrate that people are actually sick with a consistent set of symptoms that deserves to be classified as a discreet pathogen.
People though AIDS might have been a bioweapon as well. But the first step was to actually establish that AIDS was a problem at all, and not just some coincidences. Once that was done, they could find the cause, which they did pretty rapidly.
Can you demonstrate that people are sick with Morgellons? Is Morgellons a distinct syndrome?
okay, finally got to finish reading this blog slot….just thinking….maybe Dr.Wymore knows what this is???? HUH???? Yeah, right and maybe the FBI are liers to? They’d be the last f-sticks I’d trust with my life…..(Not the good Doc, but the Feds…arg!)
People, somone is lying out their GD arse! I hightly suspect it is the USDA and the DOE……
am I slamming the US Gov’t? You had better believe it…lyings sacs of poop! Hate em’
Now, why is it that no one ever says anything about Cliff and Greema and TAmTam?? Please, answer me that.
Is it b/c they too are in w. the biotech communications industrry?
These are my thoughts and I am free to to think and say them…..so I am.
I mean come friggin on people! You can not tell me you believe these lying people….so no one in the world has a damn clue what the fibers are?
One word….you should memorize this too: BULLSHIT.
shittykins aka assclown aka icequeen aka crackwhore… why would i want one of the only people researching this disease whomped upside the head?… i don’t like you… i don’t think you stand a chance at helping me or anyone else… here, there, anywhere… so yeah, it would be funny if you whomped yourself upside the head and taped it for all of us to see… pretty simple now that i have explained it huh?…
911… have you counselled a morgellons victim?… would you know one if you saw one?… surely you have not medically diagnosed one one way or the other since you are just a psychology major, not a real md are you?… did it ever occur to you that while the md’s are herding 10 patients an hour through their private money machine that the phd’s are hard at work researching so the md’s will have something brilliant to treat their tough patients with… you know, the ones that have more than moles, colds, and sore assholes… your pretty fucking ignorant for a college boy…
south… busting these clowns would be a riot… their current rant is not an uncommon one when a secret needs protected… click on my name and remember sometime back an email i sent you… you will know who i am once you click… these 3 are hard to talk to huh?… they want to know all about your symptoms only to tear them down and suggest it is anything other than morgellons… this site is nothing more than a flytrap for the newbies who are scared and searching for an answer for their morgellons symptoms… at least if they stop here the dop diagnosis is free…
nice job assclowns!… keep it coming… maybe you can blog the fucking fibers and lesions right out of us…
Well, I can only say from my own experience that when I was sick for a couple of months, my own mind was who was lying its arse off to me. If I’d stayed in that state and found MRF, I’d be a morgie, myself. I couldn’t stay there, though. It wasn’t a constant, for me. I used to attempt explaining it to morgies, using the terms, “acute morgellons” and “chronic morgellons”, haha, just as a way of trying to break through. It can’t be done. A sick body can make a sick mind, or a sick mind can make a sick body. That may sound like hogwash, but proper balance is the key to health.
Oh, I’d love to know whether Dr. Wymore knew what this was before he decided to get himself involved. Um-hmm, um-hmm. Either way, it’s a creepy, creepy thought.
Oh, I love you more and more, MAF! I know you wouldn’t want a derm professor doing that to Wymore. That was my little fantasy, and if it were going to happen, it would have already. Of course, I don’t stand a chance of helping anyone that can’t be helped, and I know that. My gosh, I’m not delusional. It would be hilarious to videotape whomping myself upside the head for us all to see. I’ll see if I can get my son-in-law to help me arrange it. I know I’ve asked you before, taking your sweet disposition into consideration, have you got diabetes? Thank you for the extra fun new names!!!
Terrapin Therapy!!!! OMG!!! Another Snake-oil Salesman!!
MAFer,
What are you doing to help the situation. All I can see from your threads, are that you are unable to except the truth, or any type of answer other than what you persoannly believe. If you are asking Michael, Smily and so forth to blog the fibers right out of you, why don’t you videotape yourself with these “fibers” coming out. The people on this site have simply lived by one rule, “there is no evidence that can prove the existence of Morgellons”.
Sean0w2… how do you figure the clowns here have the truth… there version of the truth is only opinion as well… there is no evidence that can prove the existence of morgellons?…
well… there is no evidence that can prove morgellons does not exist…
pick a side then… but writing blogs favoring their agenda will not make the fibers and lesions go away… if it would, then one might be able to say that reading here is a form of therapy… this website is going to straighten us all out and bring us back from the depths of morgie hell?…
like i said, pick a side… personally i have had this long enough to know better… would you like a dose of it?…
How sad. How true.
I can understand the necessity to disbelieve what we don’t understand, but nevertheless it is this type of gross egotistical complacency that has allowed this to become an epidemic in this country.
I ask you smart-ass know it alls this. If my fuXXing dog can get hook worms, and cattle can get liver fluke what makes you think for a second that us, Mammals, could not contract similar parasitic infections? For what reason do you believe that biological
weapons research is not real?
You are fucking idiots and should go ahead and remain in your little bubble where everything makes perfect sense because you are obviously spoon fed rich pricks inapt for the task of long term survival on this planet, and “We” meaning the human race would be better off without you spreading your disease. IGNORANCE. So take your profitable agenda and stick it up your ass. We will get you. And when we do, I can promise you the last thing you will need to worry about is a lawsuit, compared to the fact that almost every American owns a gun. I own several. So either way you have a far worse problem then Morgellon, because either you are right and we are crazy people with guns, or you are wrong and we are victims with guns. Either way you’re fucked, of that much I am sure.
I could give a fuck if you respond. I could give a fuck about the quality of your life as you obviously don’t give a fuck about ours. Psychological. No, reality. As I have said before if you still need proof, sleep in the same bed with a Morgellon patient for 30 days.
You’ll have all the proof you need. We are going to get you bastards, I promise. I never wanted to get into science and medicine. Just wanted to play my music and enjoy my life.
But now that I have been left no choice…..to the engineers of this parasite, that’s your ass.
London, South, Wymore, and all intelligent enough to see the truth… I got your back and all the friends and ammunition you need. I think it is time now for me to tap my fan base
And make them aware of what I have been up against. I assure you all, I am well respected by our youth, and they will listen.
Think before you email me. If I don’t like you, You might contract a contagious virtual disease, but don’t worry it will just be in your head. When your mbr gets wiped and your computer won’t boot, don’t worry it’s just your imagination. You fucking Complacent Pussies.
Systemic said:
Systemic, I do think humans get similar parasitic infections. I also know that the government conducts biological weapons research. There is just no evidence to suggest that either of those things is in any significant way related to the 5000+ people who registered with the MRF. Nor is there any evidence that people are producing fibers.
People are, however, obviously ill, with a variety of symptoms, which have a variety of causes. They deserve appropriate medical care, and that’s all I ask.
I am sorry you feel I am spreading ignorance, since that is the opposite of what I am trying to do. If you think there are errors or omissions on my site, I would be grateful if you could point them out so I can address them.
South don’t forget:
“First they ignore you…
Then they laugh at you…
Then they fight you…
Then you win.” - Mahatma Gandhi
Mafer,
I personnally know two people who claim to have this Morgellons. I have seen what they call evidence, I have been there when they claim Fibers are comming out of them. And everything I have seen this past 6 months is complete bullshit. They are completely dellusional, despeatly seeking other prognosis other the one they have been given. Do get more personal, one is my mother. I am not saying all cases are the same, because I only know two of these people. She also claims that her two dogs have it, but there is absolutly nothing wrong with them.
I have chosen a side, not yours. How many doctors have you seen? How many diagnosis have you disagreed?
TO Systematic,
First off, I am no where near rich. 2) I come from a blue collar neighborhood in Philly. 3) You can take your guns and shove them up your ass!!!! You obviously have some serious mental problems and need help to talk like that. If it wasn’t for this site, I would have lost my mind about what I am going through. I make this point clear. If this was some goddamn pandemic, contagious, infestation, then don’t you think it would take the CDC just a bit shorter to get to the bottom of this?
Your error is not understanding the very nature of this disease. It disables it’s host methodically. And by the time people are able to say “hey I think I’m sick, the symptoms are to severe for them to appear rational. I pose to you…Open your mind and consider other alternatives other than it’s in their head. How could so many people have normal lives and then wham…lesions….memory loss…..rashes…..Look I really don’t care or need your approval. You and every one else will know the truth soon enough. Rememmber when the plaque of the early 20’s hit we didn’t have answers at first. It is foolish to dismiss so many people as delusional or psycotic becuase we don’t understand. that is the most successful attribute to Systemic disease. and yea it pisses me off to no end when people try to rationalize the unexplainable. Do you think it is delusional that there has been an explosion of cases since 2001? Surely you can’t pass this off as internet hipe or coincedence. I was online and have been online long before you. That much I am sure of unless you were one of the few hundered doctors that were using the “net” as it was called at the time for medical purposes. I actually spent time with Steve Case, president of America Online before there was America Online discussing the marketing implications for business over what was not even “coined” at the time ” The World Wide Web”
So please just understand that you are accusing incredibly intelligent people of being “delusional”, but understand that in the end it might be you that is delusional.
Don’t forget it was guns that founded this country and it is guns that have protected your complacent ass. And wether you realize it or not in comparison to the rest of the world we are rich.
So smart ass, why is the cdc now addressing this issue? because it is delusion. right. wake up. I find it disturbing that you don’t believe your own mother. that must be really hard for her, and further more if, let’s just say it is delusion. There is still an underlying cause. Or are you saying that delusion is causeing delusion, because if so it is you that needs mental help.
do yourself and everyone who is trying to help a favor. go fuck yourself.
And the name is SYSTEMIC.
MAFER, I have studied and interned at a mental health practice. People that I and a supervisor helped counsol those with somatic illnesses. 2 of these folks had morgellons (they didnt know that is what it is “called”) and would bring in all types of specimens for me to look at it. All of this stuff was lint, dead skin, and dead bugs. I was supervised by an MD who would prescribe an anti psychotic and/or depressions/anxiety meds. You would see some slight improvment with meds, but meds dont solve anything. The best thing was behaviorial therapy and stop them from obsessing about thier skin. I beleive this disease to be somatic and the best cure is taking care of emotional issues and stop obsessing over your skin by looking at everything with a microscope and reinforcing the condition by talking to unhealthy people on the net who share similar delusions. The CDC and many doctors offices are having thier time and money wasted investigating a fake disease.
I am not going to discredit anyone. I am not a doctor, but from what I have seen, I have the right to draw my own conclusion. If you have a problem with people expressing their opnions, or their anylysis of the subject, them move to N.Korea, Cuba, or wherever you are not allowed to freely express what you feel.
What I have seen up close and personally, is DOP. Maybe it is schitzophernia. But it is not some unproven, unreconigzed disease. If you are truly having fibers come out of your skin, or multiple lesions, than go see your doctor. Even Wynmore has stated that. Stop taking the advice of some whacked out mother, who also did not want to listen to medical professionals.
All Michael is trying to do, is put out there that not all people are suffering from the same thing, and none of this is connected. People are self-diagnosing, and hurting themselves more by not listening to thier practioners.
systemic… i can relate… i was once a drummer, but the fatigue and lesions got the best of me… you’re way sick man… i say drop the fucking hammer…
these clowns are disinformationalists… most of their own sentences and fragments thereof reveal that…
Michael… as far as errors and omissions… this whole site is an error in that it’s sole purpose is to help cover up a crime… omissions you ask?… yeah, no omissions here bozo… your content is only a subset of the whole… everything else is an omission…
smileykins… ok, you got me… several of my friends have always told me how easy it is to start a relationship and/or fall in love on the internet… well after some careful consideration, i think i love you too sweety!… i just hope you are not a fatty because i really don’t like fat chicks… and i hope you don’t have too many scars and scabs all over your skin… don’t really care for that either… kinda grosses me out you know… hope you are not one of them real skinny bitches either… you know, the ones with the boney chicken frame, big nasty camel toe, narrow cheek bones, caved in eyes, and bad teeth… i would probably need a whole case of viagra if i had to deal with that…
ahhh… the joys of being in love… i just want to shout…
HEY WORLD!… I’M IN LOVE!… I SCREAM YOU SCREAM WE ALL SCREAM FOR MY ICEQUEEN!!!
Systemic said:
Firstly I’m not dismissing anything or anyone as delusional. I am saying that delusion is clearly involved in a significant number of cases. As you say yourself, the delusions might be a symptom of something else.
To your question, how can you say there has been an explosion of cases? How were the cases recorded before 2001? How were they recorded after 2001? If nobody was counting Morgellons cases before the MRF started their media campaign, then how can you say the number of cases increased? How accurate is the current count?
And why can’t internet hype be playing a small factor in this? You work in the entertainment industry, you know how things are with large numbers of people, sometimes people are influenced for incorrect reasons.
Systemic, do you know anyone with Morgellons?
You know what Systemic, I am comming to the conclusion that you are just some fucked up dude, with serious mental problems. Steve Case, yeah right, and I am having lunch with Bill Gates tomorrow.
The CDC has to investigate this, that is what they do.
About my mother, read my post in the Nancy Hinkle blog. She is just plain Crazy, and is doing nothing more than searching around to prove she is right. She has been told by three doctors, and her psyciatrist that she is dellusional. Oh, she also has a long history of depression, and has been on many anti-depressants for years. She is also an alcoholic, who drinks while taking her medication. But I guess that would have nothing to do with what she is suggesting she has.
I am doing a favor for the people who are trying to help, I am spreading the word about this website, so people can be properly informed of the truth, and not listen to redneck whackjobs who want to threaten to kill people because they don’t believe them.
It has been my experience in life that those who are defensive are guilty. So why so defense?
I have no use for this blog and for the obvious jaded / politically motivated views here. I don’t even own a microscope and don’t need one to know that something fucked me up. But I will give you this. Maybe there is something else causing the problem. Maybe it is being confused with Morgellon