The “Medical Mysteries” series is proving to be quite a money maker for ABC. The New York Daily News reports:

It’s been a challenging summer for the usually dominant ABC. How tough? Reality offerings have crashed and burned. Few are watching reruns of “Lost,” “Grey’s Anatomy” and “Desperate Housewives.” But things are looking up. ABC News’ “Medical Mysteries” series, which examines bizarre medical conditions, has turned out to be a real crowd- pleaser.

So it’s not surprising that they would continue to promote the series, and as part of this promotion offer up a preview story on their ABC “news” site, right next to the wolfman, the echolocating blind men, and the women who smell like dead fish.

The ABC Story features Morgellons Patients: Brandi Koch, Anne Dill, Greg Smith and also Mary Leitao, the founder of the MRF, and her son, Drew.

Leitao’s part in the story is interesting, since it explains the start of the Morgellons phenomenon:

Armed with research, Leitao took her son to a doctor at one of the country’s leading hospitals. He dismissed her tale of fibers and wrote to her pediatrician, saying that her son needed Vaseline for his lips and that his mother needed a thorough psychiatric evaluation.

well, you would think that the next logical step in the story would be to explain how she found her son’s fibers were not normal, and disproved all the doctors, but no, we get:

Undaunted, Leitao began poring through the medical literature looking for clues. What she discovered was a 17th-century reference to a strange disease with “harsh hairs” called “morgellons.”

A disease where infants have a fever, and then you rub milk on them, hairs spring from their backs, which you pluck, and the fever vanishes. Nothing to do with anything. Why do they keep bringing this up?

What does Mary say about Drew’s fibers:

“What I saw were bundles of fibers, balls of fibers,” Leitao says. “There was red and blue.” Even stranger, they glowed under ultraviolet light.

I have explained red and blue fibers before. I’ve also explained the glowing (although that’s usually white fibers, which Mary also found, just did not mention in this story). I’ve even discussed the fibers emerging from his lip. There is no evidence at all that Drew had anything at all unusual going on.

Now here’s something I’m looking forward to seeing:

Dr. Greg Smith of Gainesville, Ga., has been a pediatrician for the past 28 years. He claims a fiber is coming out of his big toe, and he has video footage to prove it.

Video footage of fibers emerging is something I’ve been suggesting for a while. The fibers are the only really interesting thing about “this disease” for which you might have a chance of getting some evidence.

The rest of the article is similar to other media articles. Anne Dill (who has a very impressive photo gallery) says her husband died of Morgellons, but he was actually diagnosed with ALS. 4500 people are supposed to have contacted Leitao, when all they did was fill in an internet survey. A doctor says that the lesions form when people scratch themselves.But the real news, and what I suspect that MRF were so excited about before they collapsed, is that the Tulsa City police department were unable to identify some fibers collected from a Morgellons Patient by Randy Wymore:

Forensic scientist Ron Pogue at the Tulsa Police Crime Lab in Oklahoma checked a morgellons sample against known fibers in the FBI’s national database. “No, no match at all. So this is some strange stuff,” Pogue says. He thinks the skeptics are wrong. “This isn’t lint. This is not a commercial fiber. It’s not.”

The lab’s director, Mark Boese, says the fibers are “consistent with something that the body may be producing.” He adds, “These fibers cannot be manmade and do not come from a plant. This could be a byproduct of a biological organism.”

What kind of obscure biological organism produces fibers? Bombyx mori? Rodentia Chinchillidae? Ovis aries? Exactly how extensive is this FBI national database, and how do you check a sample against it? Here’s an earlier mention of the involvement of the Tulsa Police:

The fibers, about the size of small eyebrow hairs, are not living organisms, Dr. Wymore decides. He teams with a Tulsa police department crime lab to sort through fiber samples, and though the lab owns a database of more than 800 fibers, these fibers match nothing.

800 fibers does not sound like very many to me. I bet they don’t have this one:mystery-60x-1.jpg

or this one:

mystery-60x-2.jpg
I’ve got more. My point is that 800 fibers might cover 90% of the common household fibers found in your average bit of lint, but there’s still probably over 10,000 other uncommon fibers like the above – lots of room for unidentified fibers. (A prize to the first person to correctly identify the above two photos – they are from a QX5 at 60x, so are about 3mm across).

Here’s a natural man-made fiber (the large one on the bottom right):

mystery-60x-5.jpg
I KNOW they don’t have that one in their fiber database. Why? I made it myself, simply by firmly rubbing my upper arm with a fingertip after having a hot shower. Some old sun-dried skin sloughed off, and rolled up with natural skin oil and sebum, forming this fiber-like shape. Everyone has these “fibers” from time to time, not everyone really looks at them with a microscope, or asks the police to identify them.

Here’s a much better article on Morgellons, from the Associated Press:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/15227993.htm

He recruited two Oklahoma State faculty physicians. They tweezed fibers from beneath the skin of some Morgellons patients who visited the Oklahoma State Center for Health Sciences in Tulsa in February, Wymore said, and sent those samples to the Tulsa Police Department’s forensic laboratory.

The police checked the samples against carpet and clothing fibers and other materials, and conducted chemical analyses and other tests. Nothing matched, said Mark Boese, the police lab’s director.

“How it is being produced, I don’t know,” Boese said. He theorized the fibers could be produced by human hair follicles that somehow encapsulated pollutants processed by the body.

I’ve nothing against the Tulsa Police forensic department (although they do seem to be big fans of CSI). But again, all they have said is they cannot identify some fibers, and they don’t think they are man-made or plant fibers. Hopefully more information will be forthcoming, but they have not explained how they have scientifically determined they are “some strange stuff”. What tests were run? What were the results of the tests? The Tulsa police has some nice equipment. Were these tests run with public money? Can we have the results?

Maybe we’ll see more more details on the show. But remember, ABC is here to entertain you, their aim is to build market share. Keep that in mind, when weighing their evidence. Is it possible that there is some less entertaining evidence? How many fibers were looked at? How many of those fibers were simply not entertaining enough?

263 Responses to “ABC ‘Morgellons’ Medical Mystery”

  1. Man, you’re an ass. Of course they used their “nice equipment”- but do you REALLY think they’re going to release that information before the show airs? Let me answer this question for you: no they won’t. It shouldn’t have gotten to the point that you have this much info beforehand, because skeptics like you will now view it not with a curious eye, but with a jaded eye because of your damn “cause”. You know, I liked you and appreciated our conversations in the past, but you’re an ass plain and simple. There was just no need to do that. You could have given us a chance so that there could have been intelligent conversations after the show airs, but now it will be jaded by YOU- the hypocrite who has said all along he appreciates good science and intelligent debate. What you did has precluded much chance of that happening.

  2. Forensic scientist Ron Pogue at the Tulsa Police Crime Lab in Oklahoma checked a morgellons sample against known fibers in the FBI’s national database. “No, no match at all. So this is some strange stuff,” Pogue says. He thinks the skeptics are wrong. “This isn’t lint. This is not a commercial fiber. It’s not.”

    The lab’s director, Mark Boese, says the fibers are “consistent with something that the body may be producing.” He adds, “These fibers cannot be manmade and do not come from a plant. This could be a byproduct of a biological organism.”

  3. Jace, I’m sorry you feel that way. I was not intending to prejudge the evidence on the show, and I was not expecting them to release info ahead of time. What I was doing was judging the evidence from the promotional story, and expressing interest in the actual evidence on the show.

    If the evidence on the show is good, then how is what I have to say going to detract from it? I’m not saying that one should disbelieve everything because it’s ABC, but rather that you consider ALL the evidence, not just that which is formatted to fit a story or a show for the purposes of entertainment.

    After the show airs tomorrow, maybe Dr. Wymore and ABC can release the details of the evidence (or maybe there will be enough on the show), and we can discuss that. I’m looking forward to it.

    And, I meant “nice equipment” in a good way.

  4. Here’s something that I don’t get …

    Why does anyone think that this blog and the opinions posted to it are in any way harming those who believe they have Morgellons?

    I really do not understand the venom expressed here, over and over. If Morgellons is a real, emerging disease, then that will be proven regardless of any skeptical opinion expressed on this small blog.

    If you are truly ill, WHO CARES what is posted here? Why does everyone want to know who “Michael” is, or who he works for? He’s said time and time again that he’s a retired programmer.

    I just don’t get it.

  5. Jace, what is Michael’ “cause”?

    Just curious.

  6. Jace, if you don’t have an idea one way or another, yet, you will eventually reach your own conclusions. There really are plenty of people around who really do know what “morgellons disease” is. I’m sorry if I sound arrogant about it, but when I’m positive about something, arrogance is the way I’m perceived as being, by some people. For some, who haven’t gotten to the truth of the matter, for themselves, yet, for whatever is standing in the way of their realizing it, they, quite possibly, never will.

    I’m not a skeptic, myself, and never really was, on the topic of “morgellons disease”. I know many people are ill, with combinations of geniune, treatable, conditions, both mental and physical. I’m of a very firm opinion that they all need a capable health advocate to assist them in trying to recover. Realistically, I’m sorrowful that it isn’t likely to occur.

    A lot of people who don’t like the thought of there not being a “new disease”, if you’ve noticed, among this group of patients, like to refer to skeptics, or those of us who are certain of the non-existence of “morgellons disease”, as not being able to think outside of the box.

    The box is not always the worse of two places to be.

  7. Jace, shouldn’t your beef be with ABC for releasing the info in advance? I can’t see how Michael’s “pre-analysis” of this info could do your “cause” any harm if the evidence on the show is truly that compelling.

  8. I don’t think they have any stronger evidence, or they would have used it to hook viewers for tommorrow night. Morgies are always looking for someone to point a finger at, and to blame for all their problems.

  9. “Blame”. Now that is a word that is literally worn out in the morgie community. When we’re ill, injured, diseased, and disabled, we don’t happen to always have blame to place anywhere. It’s quite often nobody’s “fault”, but they sure think that what they have is. There is blame to put all over the place, within this group of people, if you listen to them.

  10. I imagine they will have some inconclusive spectographic analysis, like the old “strong sulfur signal”. But I’ll just wait and see.

  11. Michael said:

    After the show airs tomorrow, maybe Dr. Wymore and ABC can release the details of the evidence (or maybe there will be enough on the show)
    _______________________________________

    Oh Lord I hope so! I gave him some of my links….(not that he needed them at all) but, like everyone else does, I did. I am aware of the fact that it has to be tested and results back before it can be spoke of, but I think enough time has passed (and I’m hoping I am right) so that we will get some type of detail of the evidence tomorrow night.

    Smiley and TC, I’m coming over to watch it with you all.

    London

  12. Michael, I apologize for calling you an ass. You’re right, it’s totally not your fault that ABC did an early release. I was very harsh, and I apologize. And for all you people that try to make me “dis”believe Morgellons disease, I am NOT a morgie, never have been, don’t think I will ever be and I don’t know one in person. Hopefully once the show aires a decent conversation will follow, but I don’t think it will. In my opinion the non-believers will never believe until research has determined exactly what causes this syndrome. I don’t think that will be discovered any time soon. So, you will all continue to say “this isn’t real”. And that’s fine, I’m not “spewing venom” and I don’t have an agenda. I think it’s great that people are skeptical- skepticsm implies a possibility of belief. I don’t think it’s great that there are people here who have no knowledge of medicine or even advanced biology that are saying based on THEIR personal experiences that this is not a true disease. HOW do you know that? You can’t possibly. This is also true for the morgies, but they have people researching FOR them. They are relying on science, some of you are relying on a couple people’s personal experiences. That’s like saying “oh look the sky is green today, and then someone jumps on that idea with you and says “oh look the sky is green” But all along everyone else knew it was blue as always. And FYI next time I say anything on this board, remember please that I’m NOT a morgie and I do NOT believe in this disease because I’ve read about it on the internet.

  13. While a cause for “this” syndrome would be excellent, what I’d really like is some evidence that there is a syndrome in the first place. Some statistics. Any statistics.

  14. I am looking forward to this program tonight and hope that it gives both sides a chance to give evidence for this syndrome. I have watched other shows on morgellons from local news channels and feel that one thing that is consitent is that psychology/psychiatry is pseudo science and that have a diagnose of DOP means you are crazy. I don’t beleive in Morgellons but do have an open mind and will reserve my final opionions when the CDC is done with their study. In the meantime I think this is a combo of a skin disease, delusions, and obsessive compulsive disorder. Especially when I see all the time some people put so much effort into finding these “fibers.” But like I said, I have an open mind and will wait for the CDC’s results. Until then I look forward to tonights special and like Margollens preview.

  15. Here’s an example of the kind of statistics I’m thinking of:

    http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/mmwr/mmwr05jun81.pdf

    Five patients with similar unusual symptoms. That should be enough to get things moving at the CDC. Read the final paragraph:

    All the above observations suggest the possibility of a cellular-immune dysfunction related to a common exposure that predisposes individuals to opportunistic infections such as pneumocystosis and candidiasis

    Could such a suggestion be written regarding the Morgellons fibers?

    Jace, what exactly do you think is being claimed regarding Morgellons fibers? Simply that “something is going on”? Can this be phrased more scientifically?

  16. Michael,

    I bet those people with the pneumonia also had full blown Aids, yeah?

  17. 911 says:

    “…[I] feel that one thing that is consitent is that psychology/psychiatry is pseudo science and that have a diagnose of DOP means you are crazy.”

    911 says further:

    “In the meantime I think this is a combo of a skin disease, delusions, and obsessive compulsive disorder.”

    If psychology/psychiatry are a “pseudo sciences” then why do you refer to delusions and obsessive compulsive disorder as possible causes of “morgellons?” Aren’t these psychiatric diagnoses, and if not, what are they?

    Also, do you have any personal experience with psychiatry or psychology that enables you to label them as “pseudo sciences?” If you do then you probably understand that the therapeutic process can be scary and emotionally painful–often it feels like it’s easier to dismiss psychiatry/psychology as junk rather than to do the work it takes to get well–have you personally had a bad experience with it or do you have specific knowledge about these fields that qualify you to refer to them as “pseudo sciences?” I have heard them referred to as this before (most notably by Tom Cruise on the Today Show) and since I’m not sure what this means I’d appreciate it if you could elaborate.

    I realize that Michael says he is not a doctor, nor does he suffer from “morgellons symptoms” so the same question might be addressed to him with regards to “morgellons disease,” however he does a pretty good job of supporting his statements with references and research so I’ll refrain. I could also address these questions to other non-medical professonals (like Michael) who post on this blog but I am specifically interested in the so-called psychological component of “morgellons” so that’s why I am addressing them to you.

    Thanks in advance!

  18. MHKS,

    Sorry, I meant while typing that to say that the news channels reports treated psychology/psychiatry as a psuedu science and not a true science. I myself have a bachlors in psychology and fully beleive in it. My bad on the misunderstanding. Cheers.

    911

  19. Thanks, 911. After re-reading your post I see what you meant.

  20. Just been to the ABC Primetime website to checkout the Medical Mystery show. Have any of you guys seen the Morgellons piece yet. All I saw was a 2 min thing with Brandi Koch. Is there going to be more?

    It is really confusing with the time zone – we are currently Thurs 10th Aug, 7.41am.
    Thanks SarahC

  21. It’s Wednesday 2:53PM here, the show is on at 9 or 10 PM tonight.

  22. Michael – Thank you.

    I just checked the posts under the last heading.

    I had no idea cliff put my letter on the internet. Anyway as I have said before – nothing to hide.

    As for the Mary Leitao thread – well I can’t even get into Lymebusters and I don’t even want to. I have no idea what is going on with Mary Leitao – I would like to think she has not betrayed innocent people and taken their money, but I hope the lawyers can sort it out.

    My only intentions at this point in my life is to concentrate on my unknown illness. The media in Australia are finally starting to wake up to this and this is a good thing for me. My main objective for this – my personal story from suffering this syndrome. Then hopefully if the OSU can hook up with a Uni here in Melbourne and conduct a clinical trial I would be over the moon. When all is said and done that is really my only last hope.

  23. Sarah, while I have yet to be convinced that Morgellon’s is truly a new and unique syndrome, I do hope that you find answers and relief.

    kindest regards

  24. Following from what JeezeLouise said, the facts that we disagree on if there is a novel infectious disease, how many people have it, and if the fibers are involved, does not negate the fact that individuals like Sarah are suffering, and I too hope they get answers and relief, whatever is wrong with them.

  25. I would love to be able to convince you – just have no idea how – especially with me being in Australia. Anyone who spends a day with me soon sees the nightmare unfold. So very hard for the people around me to. They are all so helpless. I really do understand the flip side for people not suffering this – I would definitely NOT believe it myself. Facts are – I had blue stuff and long hair like fibers coming from unbroken skin, and what I thought was MY hair growing into the skin of my forehead and cheeks, – LONG before I found the Morgellons Website. Sometimes I wish I had never found the website. I have always said what you don’t know won’t hurt you, but these days I can’t get away from it, the evidence is just too overwhelming.

  26. Michael… the best thing that could happen to you would be if you contracted this disease… that is why i donate blood… in hopes that you and people like you will get this… you clearly are a piece of shit with an agenda… of course that probably won’t happen as you are more than likely a paid spook who has been immunized…

    abc can do what they want (they usually do)… your thin analysis of their medical mystery coverage is at best another one of your sway techniques… abc and the other networks’ jobs are to market and sensationalize everything… they are very good at pulling their own chains… that is nothing new, but it is just that you are making a deal of it on the subject of morgellons… real fucking weak you fucking puke…

    a new website might be coming your way which may discuss tips and tricks on how to spread this disease… morgellons is real and it is here and it is there… and, it will be coming to a public space near you… the more the merrier fucker!

  27. and the national fbi database in which comparisons with fibers were made contained around 200,000 samples… get your fucking facts straight jr.

  28. result: no matches with morgellons fibers

  29. Okay, Jace. You believe that the vast majority of our physicians don’t practice good medicine, and that they were all way off base with their diagnoses of this set of people. You see noting peculiar in the behavior of such patients, nothing odd that they’ve all expected doctors to do unrealistic testing for them, outside of the realm of reason. You see nothing the matter with patient non-compliance, or going to as many as 10-40 different physicians, trying to get something other than the same, inevitable diagnosis. Their beliefs, behaviors, and their practices, that are open for public scrutiny, even being displayed within this forum, don’t give you any clue to the situation, or any insight. In fact, none of this does, but yet, you claim not to “be a morgie”. I can buy that, but I’m afraid you may appear to be susceptible to falling for just about anything, though, with such a lack of discernment.

  30. Weird. I donate blood hoping that the child with cancer or the grandma in heart surgery might wake up tomorrow healthier and stronger.

    Polluting the blood supply is evil.

  31. 200,000 samples? Where did you hear that? In 2004 the FBI had a database of 1,800 samples, and it took the URI two years, a team of graduate students and $134,000 to create it. And that only covered commercially produced fibers, and the dyes they had at the department.

    http://www.uri.edu/news/releases/?id=2713

  32. I missed calling this to your attention, Jace, since you were referencing Tall Cotton & me.

    I don’t think it’s great that there are people here who have no knowledge of medicine or even advanced biology that are saying based on THEIR personal experiences that this is not a true disease. HOW do you know that? You can’t possibly. This is also true for the morgies, but they have people researching FOR them. They are relying on science, some of you are relying on a couple people’s personal experiences. That’s like saying “oh look the sky is green today, and then someone jumps on that idea with you and says “oh look the sky is green” But all along everyone else knew it was blue as always. And FYI next time I say anything on this board, remember please that I’m NOT a morgie and I do NOT believe in this disease because I’ve read about it on the internet.

    You sound like you have some geniune cognitive dysfunction, so I understand where you’re coming from, but you’re being quite irrational in thinking this way. Quite irrational.

  33. Whatever it is Jace – you have certainly confused me with your last post.

    If you are not a “Morgie” and you “Don’t Believe” – what are you trying to say?

    By the way – I don’t have anyone personally researching this for me and I am in Australia not USA.

  34. Michael – Did you receive the email I sent you?
    Thanks SarahC

  35. Received and replied.

  36. Jace DOES believe in Morgellons, just not because of what she’s read on the internet, or from Morgies she has met. She believes for some other reason.

  37. Abac68, hi. I hope you’re doing all right today. I think Jace might mean that the internet didn’t influence their believing anything about “morgellons disease”, but that something else has. I believe that working in an ER, did, unless my memory fails me at the moment.

  38. Thank you for sharing that dermatology article, Michael. I agree with that last statement, and I believe that both things could have been accomplished by each patient, rather than their non-compliance, “if it could have been”. Very sad.

  39. Oh Smiley, aren’t you cute? I’ve almost finished my master’s in biomedical science. Irrational? No I’m PAID to research this disease whether there is one or not. The outcome is the same to me either way. I believe in this disease because of what I’ve experienced and seen with my own eyes. So, excuse me, but what is your experience and education?

  40. Jace, Smileykins was critiquing your reasoning and logic, not your education or employment.

  41. I wish that someone could help people with this.My mom has been suffering with this for at least a year now. At first everyone was saying it was all in her head. Now im even more scared about what is going to happen. We need to find out what is going on.

  42. So how many of you on here have this?????

  43. Christina – I have it.

  44. I watched the ABC report and didn’t have any real conclusive feelings in either direction. The video of the fiber in the Georgia doctor’s toe was far from impressive- there was nothing showing it growing out of his toe. OTOH, it does appear that a fiber of some sort was growing out of the little boy’s mouth. But it didn’t look much different from a hair and wasnt anything like the blue and red fibers I’ve seen in certain photos.

    Also, I think it’s fair to say that none of these people *looked* like they were really physically sick. Especially the children of the parents who claim to have it- the just looked like normal kids and seemed happy. And we just have to take the word of the wife of the major league pitcher that her husband has fibers, and his symptoms seem much different than hers from her description.

    So anyway, I’m still in the undecided but skeptical category, and I don’t think this ABC report is much of a milestone in either direction. The least ABC could have done is paid for their own independent testing of the fibers – what is their chemical composition?

  45. I am blown away by what I have seen about this! The reason ism that Im have been going through som many mdeical tests that I cant list them all. They thought that I had ALS, but wasnt dyhing fast enuff. I have tom go for another MRI tomorrow. But, what got me was the connections made to the symptoms the people were having I have! But what got me was the fibers growing from their bodies. I have a fiber growing from my finger and have never heard of anyone else with this. People I have shown the fibers I remove dont beklieve me when I tel them it will grow back get as long as it will till I remove it. I was told by my doctors that I was special when they couldnt tell me my reason for going through what I am. But I would have never have made the connection of the fibers with my codition. THANK FOR AIRING THIS STORY. I will be having my doctors look into this. Its been too many years have I wondered, hope I now am going in the right direction.

  46. Okay, well I don’t know what the problem with my reasoning and logic is. And Smiley, I do apologize- I’ve got a problem with controlling my mouth lately. I don’t appreciate your statement “You sound like you have some geniune cognitive dysfunction, so I understand where you’re coming from, but you’re being quite irrational in thinking this way. Quite irrational” THAT is why I defended my employment and education. I am NOT irrational Logic and symantics really isn’t my thing- I’m a hard science gal, so I’m sorry if you think my statements don’t make sense. Now I do have to say that I’m very disappointed in the show. I suppose since we have to have repeatable results the better evidence didn’t make it to the show. Oh well the debate continues on. I will probably not have anything further to contribute. I continue to believe, but since I can’t give out any further information, I’ll stay away until I have something to comment on.

  47. You “didn’t appreciate” my statement. Well, then, I suggest that you use some foresight in judgement before trespassing, if the consequences of your actions are going to bring something you don’t appreciate.

  48. I wonder if this could account for my husband’s and my symptoms over the past few years. I noticed strange hairlike fibers on his torso and would spend spend hours with tweezers removing them because he complained that they itched. I just thought it was clogged pores because the work he does brings him home covered in dirt from head to toe. He and I both have suffered from worsening fatigue over the years and I have noticed the same fibers on my torso within the last year. I would get an occasionally itch in my scalp, but just chalked it up hormone changes producing more/less oils. I am a person of above average intelligence, but lately have been increasingly more forgetful and often have difficulty concentrating.

  49. Juanita, your husband should see a dermatologist.

    Everyone has an itchy scalp sometimes.

  50. Trespassing? Really? I was under the impression that this is an open forum. And, truly I don’t give a crap what you think of me. Hell no I didn’t appreciate your assault on my intelligence. But in the grand scheme of things do I care at all? Nope.

    So Michael, am I trespassing? I guess I’ll just email you, but I don’t know how you can trespass on a completely open forum.

    And you know what? The people who get the most defensive are the ones who think they might be wrong. I’m not one of them.

  51. All are welcome here. Although I do appreciate it when people try to be polite.

    Erm, Jace, you have sounded a little defensive from time to time, see comment #1.

    But feel free to either post or email, I’d be happy to hear what you think the missing unrepeatable evidence was.

  52. Well Michael, I could be wrong.(I assume that’s what you meant by the defensive comment) you always call me out- I find that quite amusing, can’t get much past ya can I? I’ve admitted that all along. And truly I don’t know what the heck has caused me to be so negative. I’m not. Have I been impolite? Or should I say any less polite than some people have been to me? I will check tomorrow and see if I’m allowed to give out any of the newer information. SO MUCH was cut from that show that I feel would have given you the evidence you ask for. I’ll check and make sure I can discuss it and maybe come back tomorrow. Michael-even though I called you an ass, you’re a nice ass, and I will work on my politeness.

  53. I’m having trouble following–who here believes and who doesn’t?

  54. Well crap. I’m not making sense. I’m sorry. Yes people who could be wrong are defensive, people who want to believe something they have spend 100s of hours working on is a true new syndrome, disease, whatever you want to call it. I’m defensive, Smiley’s defensive- not a good combo. So Smiley- I know you truly care about these people as do I, but we are definitely not be on the same end of the spectrum on our belief about morgellons, but we do have the patients best interest at heart. I just want to see them better, no matter who is “right” or “wrong” Going to bed now, far too much stimulation today. My brain is on complete overload.

  55. Juanita I do believe in morgellons, but I am not one myself, nor do I know any. I believe based on research that has yet to be released.

  56. Christina, make sure you go to a doctor with your mom, and try to gently persuade her into following the doctor’s diagnosis and advice. Otherwise, you have a real serious situation on your hands, that will continue to worsen as time goes on. I know it has to be a devasting thing to witness, and there should be support groups for family members, but your mom needs you, or someone that she trusts, to go to the doctor with her. Don’t rely on her going by herself and being able to deal with the outcome, alone, please. That is the best advice I have to offer you.

  57. Juanita, I do not believe nor disbelieve.

    I have yet to see anything that convinces me there is a new and unique medical syndrome, that might be called Morgellons.

    On the other hand, I do believe that all of the people who describe themselves as Morgellons sufferers are truly very ill and in need of treatment.

    Those people need answers and relief, and convincing me that Morgellons is real is irrelevant to that.

  58. If Jace is saying that she is being paid to determine whether or not Morgellons is a real disease, I think she’s lying. If I misread what she said, then I apologize.

    It seems to me that she is exhibiting typical Morgie behavior, pretending she has information that she doesn’t have. She comes in here screaming “asshole” and now she expects to be treated like nothing ever happened. She’s nuts.

    One thing is certain, she’ll never prove that Morgellons is a disease, because it isn’t. She should also be careful not to underestimate Smileykin’s medical knowledge.

  59. I have it, the ABC story was very depressing, after you have seen four doctors and two dermatologist for your fake illness, you look for hope everywhere you can. All the people have no reason to make up the same symptoms. If this is a common skin ailment what is the cure?

  60. As far as an actual disease process which causes neurological symptoms, I really doubt. Fibers of some type being produced by the human body as an overproduction of sebum/hair/dirt matter most likely. The other “neurological” symptoms could easily be the result of poor diet, lack of exercise increases is stress–most people do not take care of themselves like they should. My self and my husband included.

  61. Jace, I guess all one has to do, really, to “be a morgie”, is “to believe”. I’m sorry you even misinterpretted my usage of the word, “trespassing”. In the below comments, you “trespassed on me”, and I don’t agree with the violation you made, in saying such things, concerning what your perception is on the matter:

    I don’t think it’s great that there are people here who have no knowledge of medicine or even advanced biology that are saying based on THEIR personal experiences that this is not a true disease.

    They are relying on science, some of you are relying on a couple people’s personal experiences.

    That’s like saying “oh look the sky is green today, and then someone jumps on that idea with you and says “oh look the sky is green” But all along everyone else knew it was blue as always.

  62. I respectively disagree w/ the guys that are having a problem w/ this concept. Can you produce a moving fibre from your skin?? My personal opinion is we have been attacked by a bio agent. I really dont care if you agree.

  63. I have a question.

    All of you people that think you are so infectious that the rest of us are too scared to take a $100 bet to spend a minute with you …

    If it’s that bad, how do you feel about risking the health of the ABC reporter who is evidently trying to get your story out?

    I hope someone sends her a hundred bucks.

  64. Oh, this is new.

    Billy Koch is evidently no longer calling himself a Morgellons sufferer?

    ABC Medical Mysteries, Brandi says Billy has Morgellons, but he’s no longer saying that himself?

  65. Did I hear that right? Billy Koch no longer wants to be associated with Morgellons?

  66. Hmm, another dissapointing TV special. If this is the best the MRF can do they will have a tough time convincing people this is a real disease. Greg Smith’s grainy video footage of hair on his toe was not enough for me. I thought Drew was in remission and now he is in the doctors office with the same damn sore. That kid will have problems with his looney mom. Anne Dill scratches look very much self inflicted and I would say she has some sort of OCD and now it is happening to her kids from watching her. This is all just my opinion but the special does not convince me that this is some new disease. Also, how many people go over there zits and now the Anne Dill is obsessing over a zit on her kids leg and they notice all this stuff about it. I am sure if I went over my zits and obsessed about them I would find things wrong too. This is a spreading case of DOP w/ OCD.

    911

  67. I’d only heard on the program, or so I’d thought, that Billy Koch declined being interviewed, with the reason being that he didn’t want to elicit pity. I may have missed something?

  68. Well the Morgies could always just cut their limbs off

  69. Dunno, Smiley. But it sure was an unexpected deviation from the standard Billy and Brandi Morgellons story.

    I also noted earlier that Brandi’s name is NOT signed to the MRF letter of August 9, 2006.

  70. 911, I was just about to chastise you but then I heard that all of those people who want to amputate their limbs … got together on the Internet.

    holy bejeezus

  71. Yep. well, JeezeLouise, I wouldn’t have appeared on there, either, no matter who I was. Oh man, 911. Yeah, wasn’t that just terrible!!!. Do you think they even realized (morgies) that the show kind of had a “certain theme” to it? That demented background music during their segment was just awful.

  72. Hmmmm. Have just finished viewing the ABC program about morgellons. I am still a non-believer that morgellons exists, but truth-be-told it will probably take the CDC coming up with a case definition for it and other hard evidence to convince me. In the meantime I do believe that those who are suffering are indeed suffering from something, and are probably suffering from more than one thing. I believe the lesions are real and that the fibers are real, I just don’t believe the fibers are being produced by the body–I believe they are environmental. The fiber coming out of Dr. Smith’s toe did not look like anything out of the ordinary to me. The fibers that are magnified to the Nth degree all look weird, whether someone says it came out of their lesion or Michael picked it off his shirt. That’s what happens when you magnify things to the Nth degree–they look weird and unfamiliar.

    It sounds like Dr. Wymore’s heart is in the right place and I hope he and his team find the answers that will help the sufferers one way or another. I certainly wouldn’t mind being wrong if it turns out that morgellons is a real disease, quite the contrary.

  73. Well, okie dokie. The greatest effort and hope of the MRF has been broadcast. I’m too freaked out over the self-amputees to even remember any details of the Morgellons segment.

    The Morgellons segment was reasonably fair and balanced, but the scheduling could not have been worse. Leading into the amputation segment?

  74. Rhonda Casey threw off such a bad vibe, it nearly blew me out of my seat.

  75. Why doesn’t somebody run a spectrograph of the fibers, and why doesn’t someone publish what the chemical contents are?

  76. It looks like from the show that they ran one. I’ve got a screen grab of what they showed, which was two overlaid graphs, maybe the sample and a best fit. Anyone know how to read one of those things.

    The bottom scale is not clear. But I imagine you could recognize something.

  77. They are cheering wildly at LB.

    Nice job, Ken Cowles. Morgellons is forever fixed in the public mind right next to the guy who froze his legs off.

  78. Of course, that’s just me, and I didn’t need to give that commentary. Skooze me.

    But my gosh, I would agree with her, just to not have to listen to her. (Ooops. Sorry,I did it again.)

  79. MHKS, your post absolutely describes my position. I do completely believe that people are suffering, I just do not believe they are suffering from “Morgellons”. I further believe that allowing these very ill people to believe that they have a new and unique syndrome is very harmful, it prevents them from seeking proper treatment for real physical issues.

    What I don’t understand is why that makes me the enemy.

  80. That graph may have been the signature from a gas chronomograph of the fiber overlaying the closest chemical match from the data bank.

  81. I feel in my gut that people with this illness have always been in existence, but have come out of the woodwork due to one woman opening the door.I don’t think anything will happen for most of them other than their continued descent. There are plenty of things I only wish could happen, so that everyone concerned was well taken care of, but I feel the sting of reality telling me nothing will ever be any better. I feel so distraught, not only for their hard-headedness (although that’s not even fitting, for this), but the children. My God, the children. The pets also. If people are hell-bent on self-destruction, why the others have to pay, and nobody is on their side, is just too much to think about.

  82. You guys, excuse me but I’m tired of this illness being sidelined; so I’m going to post some things I know and do hope that is okay-if not, I do not mind if you erase it.

    My research has led me to two seperate areas of our disease. One being, what is causing our skin lesions and the other being what the fibers are.

    What I do not quite understand is how the two go hand in hand.

    I will start here. The skin eruptions, to the best of my knowledge is from a bacteria called Wolbachia. The biggest spreading vector is the parasitoid wasp. (which 5 were found in my home and sent to Orkin who sent it to the Texas A&M Ag. Research Dept.) but this wasp is not just what you would call

    a transgenic or GM wasp, but a SYNTHETIC ONE; aka robotic.

    They use this wasp for biocontrol purposes on the crops (for pest that infest melons, etc.,)

    They released this Wolbachia tainted wasp in the 3 states that have the highest Morgellons sufferers: Tx, Cali, and Florida.

    In 1993 40,000 wasp were released in Mission Texas. (I dunno if this is the same wasp or not)

    This wasp is also turned lose in food warehouses to do it duty on the crates of exposed, unpackaged food. *yes, this used to be illegal-only could be released in the crops out in the open fields but money talked and laws were changed.

    There is the bacteriophage that is responsible for getting this into humans….the tripartate I believe it is called…the bacterophage, wolbachi= embiosymbioses…(I may be leaving some facts off here>no notes, sorry)

    I do have a plethora of documents to back up what I am saying.
    I know the lead scientist name if that would help (although I’m not saying unless asked to).

    something about wolbachaia and CI or cytoplasmic I. (brain dead here too)

    I also am pretty sure of what the fibers are….all I will say is that there is some glass, silicone involved…..some are natural and some are fiber optics…..

    BUT THIS IS WHAT PISSSES ME TO KNOW END….IF I CAN FIND THIS OUT; AND I AM A NOBODY (NOBODY IS PERFECT;THEREFORE I AM PERFECT…HAHA) THEN WHY THE HELL CAN’T THE SCIENTIST AND OR DOCTORS FIGURE THIS OUT, HUH?????

    CAN SOMEONE ANSWER THAT FOR ME??? OKAY, GOING TO SHUT UP HERE. i DO NOT MIND AT ALL IF THIS IS ERASED….I JUST HATE THE FACT THAT NEW WEBSITES ARE SPRINGING UP AND HERE WE F-ING GO AGAIN…WITH NO MENTION OF A DAMN THING…..IF THE PROPER PARTIES DO NOT FIND SOME PANACEA FOR US THERE WILL BE LAWSUITS
    i’M SURE.

    I JUST WANT TO GET WELL-DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE BLAME-GAME; ALTHOUGH I KNOW WHO IS PERFECTLY TO BLAME FOR BOTH THE FIBERS
    AND ALSO THE WASP WITH WOLBACHIA….

    I DO NOT MEAN TO SOUND LIKE A NO IT ALL, BUT BY GOD, I KNOW SOMETHINGS AND I KNOW I’M TIRED OF THIS BS FACADE BEING STAGED BY THE KISS-ARSE SCARED LIL DERMATOLOGIST.

    THANK YOU AND GOODNIGHT

  83. You get em, London. Nighty-nite. Hang tough,

  84. JeeezeLouise Says:
    August 9th, 2006 at 10:26 pm
    Did I hear that right? Billy Koch no longer wants to be associated with Morgellons?

    ______________________

    Once Mrs. Koch contact the Morgellons Research Foundation – Mary and Cowles had to get her husband on board. But we are not to sure if it was Cowles there media guy – but Mr. Koch family started to get harrassed by the local media – which I am sure Cowles told them were to go. It’s VERY sad the the M.R.F. can’t even WAIT for people like the Koch’s to come to terms with Morgellons. No the MRF needs to exploit they first. Very said.

    LIKE I have been saying:

    OSU OSU OSU OSU OSU

    Need NURSES for support of morgellons – they also have morgellons and know what everybody is going through.

    http://www.cherokeechas.com

    OSU OSU OSU OSU

  85. Tallcotton- I AM paid to research this disease. I’m a research assistant in the only lab that is currently researching this disease. And I don’t expect to be treated like nothing happened. I didn’t come back here to “make nice”, but I, the mother of five kids, A&P and nutrition instructor at a community college as an adjunct, full time biomedical grad student and a full time research assistant. There it is. If you want to call me nuts, fine. But I AM one of 3 people that are currently working on the research end of things, so I’m privy to information that none of you has. You can continue to disbelieve me, I truly don’t care. Michael, could you please clarify that I am who I say I am?

  86. Jace is exactly who she says she is.

  87. Wow, I continue to be impressed by the power of the internet to supercharge human delusion. Anybody interested in understanding what’s going on here should should do some research on ‘Devil’s Rye’, and it’s role in witch hunt psychoses.

    Humans are very good at finding patterns in things – even when they don’t actually exist. This tendency has to be controlled with rigorous logic, or things get really weird, really quick (witch hunts again). The best antidote to this is a simple piece of logic called ‘Occam’s Razor’ that has been used successfully by philosophers for a long time. Basically it says that in the vast majority of ‘mysteries’, the simplest explanation is best.

    For example, elaborate tales about parasitic wasps, bizarre bacteria, government experiments, third-world textiles and dark conspiracies ring ‘crazy’ to most of us. I ran across a posting that showed that some so-called morgellons fibers were found to be made of cellulose. The posting suggested that the next line of inquirey should be to find a bacteria capable of producing cellulose. The simplest explanation is that the cellulose fibers were – paper. Lots of those floating around. Red and blue fibers? How many red and blue fibers can be found in the clothing that everybody wears? Again, simplest explanation.

    The Morgellans debate is just another child of the internet. Review the postings that come up in a Google search and you will find almost exactly the same language and phraseology repeated from site to site – and most recently in the newswire stories. This is midsummer, remember, the silly season, when journalists look for oddball stories to sell newspapers.
    500+ cases – a hard number to confirm and in any case statistically insignificant – hardly ’sweeping the nation’. (Gross Morbid Obesity is vastly more prevalent in North Am with rather obvious pathologies). It certainly isn’t hard to come up with 500 delusional hypochondriacs in a population of 350 million. In days gone by, these mentally ill people would suffer in isolation, but today, thanks to the miracle of the web, they can form an online support group, reinforcing and codifying each other’s hallucinations. It’s what humans do best. Of course, there is no shortage of lawyers and unscrupulous medical researchers in the land of for-profit medicine willing to take them ’seriously’ in search of research dollars. Petty sad stuff.

    As for the photos on the ‘Morgellons Research Foundation’ website they easily confirm that this is a munchausen-by-proxy obsession at best, a cynical hoax at worst (I’m leaning towards hoax). Notice the so-called lesions on the child’s lip – particularly the linear quality and extremely even spacing. These are almost certainly lacerations (cuts), possibly from the claws of an angry cat. The magnifications of tissue showing fibers are obviously showing contamination from clothing, probably a blanket. I just checked my belly button and found a creepy little black thing that looked like a bug, but which under a magnifying glass was determined to be a bundle of fibers! There are bundles of whitish fibers between my toes as well…

    A more interesting study would be to research the neurochemical imbalance that leads to this kind of delusional behaviour. 5 will get you 10 that the folks who have suddenly discovered they ‘have’ this so-called condition have a history of other mental illness – probably untreated due to their inability to afford medical treatment.

    The real issue here is not whether this fantasy is real, it is whether the perpetrator of this hoax should be prosecuted for malicious mischief or fraud.

    Another little gem for penetrating a mystery: “Cui Bono?” or “who benefits?” Remember the severed toe in the Wendy’s chili?

    Keep your bullshit detectors on high folks, there is more goofiness like this to come.

  88. Jace, you’re dancing around, calling Michael an ass (was that you who had the posts from “MAF”?) and flying off the handle and not able to make sense in a reply post on a miniscule blog, then hiding under “anonymous” and whatnot. It’s not professional, and it is not conducive to me trusting you. If my doctor or a reseracher I knew couldn’t even write a sentance that makes sense on a blog, well, you see where I’m going with this.

    If you have information that “proves” Morgellons exists, and you are allowed to talk about it, then, heavens, what is holding you back?

    For example, all I’ve seen Dr. Wynemore say is “They’re not environmental fibers.” What has beeen done to assess this?

    Another is “The patients are not picking their skin.” What has been done to assess this?

    Another is, “All of the patients have the same symptoms.” Even I know this is not true. What has been done to assess this?

    Just let it all hang out, dear.

  89. Okay a)I did am not morgellonsassfucker- it was hard for me to even type those words. b)I still don’t understand what I’ve said that didn’t make sense and I would be more than happy to explain what I meant if someone would just tell me what they’re talking about c)I did not hide under anonymous- the anonymous I accidentally did above was corrected when I saw I hadn’t signed in d)what is holding me back is that I was told that I could divulge this info to anyone who asked. I waited for someone to ask and now that person will get the information here. I’m used to a forum where you can go back and edit mistakes, so some things I’ve posted and then noticed a word or two missing I was unable to fix. Continue to hate on me all you want. Now that the media blitz is over we’re hitting the lab hard and heavy to get results. I will continue to read this board because it’s interesting but I will no longer do any back and forth sniping with anyone here. I don’t have the time or desire.

  90. … and the elaborate fantasy prize goes to ‘London’ for ‘Robotic wasps’. Cool!

    Okay, okay. Nevermind Morgellons, the now the game is “How many of these wacky postings are tongue-in-cheek? C’mon, fess up all you wannabe X-files writers!

  91. Jace, I am looking forward to what your research will show? One question, have these people undegone some sort of mental health evaluation during your research. And what exactly are you guys research, the fibers or what could possibly be causing it. Michael, do you and Jace know one another? Hmmm, I have many question this morning. Hope all is well.

  92. Jace responded to an email that I sent to the place where she works, which is how I know she is who she says she is. She’s is being quite honest and I’ll vouch for her, although I may disagree with her conclusions.

  93. cracks me up… “When told of Dr. Bill Harvey’s successful treatment with antibiotics of Morgellons patients in Houston, Dr. Peter Lynch of the University of California, Davis said the ‘cures’ are easily explained by the placebo effect. Patients treated with sugar pills, for example, often get well because they believe they are receiving medicine.”

    and where did randy train? uc-davis for bs and uc-irvine for phd…. too funny…

    and rhonda casey DO? she is not even board certified by the american academy of pediatrics… she went to school and trained at osu/trmc…

    osuhsc and trmc are an absolute joke…

    quackery and delusional patients…

  94. I think this site makes me itch like CRAZY!!!

  95. Will the conclusions be posted. I would like to see the results. Do they show any signs of a pathegon or anything that would prove this to be a disease?

  96. Hey Jace, you sound like a stand-up sort of person to me. I can’t begin to express my gratitude in the work of you and your staff. Thank you and Dr. W ever, ever so much. Michael has my email if you ever want to talk.

    Aherah

  97. Dear Skeptic G,

    You must work for Lucent Technologies or Bell Labs. I say this b/c they know what the fibers are…want me to explain? in detail?

    And the parasitoid, synthetic wasp is ever so true…..here, Skeptic G, just for you being so hateful and obviously grasping to cover up something (you must work for the DOE if not Lucent or Bell. Or, of course, maybe the Agricultural Dept.)I will give you the guys name here in the states that is the leading expert in London’s make believe lil wasp theory….

    Now, he’s know delusion or illusion you see Skeptic G, he’s a real live scientist at The Josephine Bay Paul Center and his name is
    Seth Bordenstein.

    Now, would you like more information on anything? I have tons more and will freely give it to you just for the asking or smearing, you kind, twisted soul you…

  98. I must apologize for the improper spelling of No/know above and also ask cover-boy skeptic G if he would like some documentation to go along with my information. So, what do ya say SkepticG, huh? Want some?

  99. or maybe Skeptic G, you would even better benefit from seeing the so called Wolbachia Genome first hand from guess who???

    The National Science Foundation!!! I got more here too, but I will just sit and wait until you try to smear me again.

    or, of course, ask me. (which we both know won’t happen because you know I know and will post it) so, what do you want to do now Skeptic G? Just let me know…..

  100. AFTER Primetime last clip – the Nurses at N.M.O. did get much sleep with request for support. They are back at it this morning replying to emails. What a team over at N.M.O.

    If anybody has or knows someone that has Morgellons and would like support – The Nurses at the New Morgellons Order would be glad to help give support. All the Nurses at N.M.O. have Morgellons and know what people are going through.

    the New Morgellons Order : http://www.cherokeechas.com

    CLICK ON MEDIA ALERT – NEWS COVERAGE TONIGHT 8/10/06

    Ok I probably sound like a broken record but I am in too good of a mood today!!! People are getting support woohoo
    WAY COOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  101. London, you are misinterpreting what you have been googling. Bordenstien’s research seems to be purely forensic gentics – just looking at the genome of mutually evolving species like parasites and their hosts to see how they evolved together in the past. Just because you google a few key words, and they come up on some guys page, means ABSOLUTLY NOTHING. You need to be able to understand what is being said on the page.

    I know you mean well, but please try to keep your theories sensible, and based on verifiable evidence. If you think there are robotic wasps, then provide some evidence of robotic wasps. Otherwise, keep looking.

  102. speaking of London’s lil make-believe wasps
    here is a snippet for you…remember when I ttried to tell you of reproducible (molecular parasites?) I tried, but I am delusional? yeah buddy, right. Here you go:

    THE WASP:

    Their intricate parasitic effects on arthropod reproduction are collectively denoted ‘reproductive parasitism’, and their beneficial effects in filariid nematodes include vital impacts on fertility and larval viability. We use this unique, natural plasticity along with high throughput molecular approaches to distinguish the incipient genomic events that shape lifestyle among these endosymbionts. Recent studies indicate bacteriophages are surprisingly common, laterally transfer between distantly related genomes, and recombine at high rates. These findings raise future opportunities for determining the extent of lateral transfer and phage infection in bacteria that are traditionally considered highly stable and prone to genome degradation.

  103. Hmmm, get some help london. You spend too much time chasing around silly theories of modified wasps spreading a disease in which humens sprout fibers. The more of this junk I read the less serious I take this whole Morgellons thing. How many other people have come on here with theories that it was caused by french bottled water, bio-chemical testing, chemtrails, in the months this blog has been up? I want to see what Jace and other people who research this (cdc) condition have to say before I make a final call.

  104. Michael,

    Sorry, I just saw your post. Okay, will take your advice….I even have a photo of one a girl from Italy made.

    I will gather it up into better documentation. I just did not want this sceptic G smearing me anylonger.

    If it smear or be smeared; screw them.

  105. 911,

    But you don’t get it. I don’t care if you, nor anyone else believes me.

    Funny, I have a team of Medical doctors here in Dallas that do….

  106. Maybe this will help:

    Mecheng: ProjectsA Robotic Model Wasp to Investigate Parasitoid Insect Plume Tracking Behaviour … robotic model of the parasitoid wasp, Cotesia rubecula default. …
    wXXXXXXXXXXXXXedu.au/robotics/robotics_projects.php?wpage_id=44&title=6&browsebytitle=1 – 12k – Cached – Similar pages

    Wind Sensor and Robotic Model Wasp Development (ResearchIndex)To model this plume tracking using a mobile robot, an appropriate wind sensor … 0.1: Kin Discrimination and Sex Ratios in a Parasitoid Wasp – Reece Shuker …
    XXXXXXXXXXXXX.edu/644964.html – 20k – Cached – Similar pages

    [PDF] Wind Sensor and Robotic Model Wasp DevelopmentFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – View as HTML
    to be designed for a mobile robot, allowing it to imitate. the wind sensing capabilities of the parasitoid wasp Cote-. sia rubecula. …
    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX/papers/16.pdf – Similar pages

  107. I’m sorry to expose this. They chose to infect us and they do not seem to care…I have waited patiently for some panacea from the powers that be since June 1st.

    I think I am getting impatient. Am I worried? Well, I’m dying a miserable death so you be the judge.

    I will quit here..

    London

  108. Because this is a medical mystery and no one has ever heard of Morgellons…does. not. mean. it. doesn’t. exist.
    My spouse used to work for a company that no one have heard of, therefore, in their minds, it didn’t exist.
    Same for this mystery disease.
    People generally fear the unknown and so, because the general public has now been made aware of Morgellons disease, but…don’t understand it, they’re too! willing to write all sufferers off, as well as the medical community, as needing psychiatric help because they’re ‘delusional’.
    When people don’t understand something, they fear that which they don’t understand and react towards others in a irrational manner, no matter how otherwise intelligent and educated they are.
    End of story!

  109. J.Lousie said: “What I don’t understand is why that makes me the enemy.”

    J. Lousie, I don’t view you as the enemy. I can see that you, like MHKS, have an ounce or two of compassion. You’ve rarely been rude to me; I don’t plan on being to you. You see, the fact that you doubt what I, a rational person seeking rational explanations, have seen time and time again is just as patronizing as the doctor who writes “DOP” upon the mere mention of fibers. Actually, I appreciate that you take more time to listen than they do. If I ever suffered a delusion, it was that I thought I could sing. I’ve come to grips with that one. Fibers come out of my skin. I’m sorry that this thought so thoroughly offends people. You seem to think, Louise, that the doctors are going to fix these “illnesses” that we have. We’ve all been to doctors. I gone for years without mentioning fibers–nothing gets fixed. None of the standard treatments for standard diagnoses make it go away. Now you are going to say that it because I have my mind fixed on “Morgellons.” I will remind you that in 1992, “Morgellons” was not heard of, and I still had fibers. So did Elliot:

    “He was full of Silica. He had fiber things coming out of his hands and underneath his nails and all over his body. He sat in the bathtub for hours at a time and soaked in salt and soda water and anything non-toxic that would relieve the pain, itching and buning. He loved his horses and his dogs. Debbie and I disagree regarding his age. I thought he was something like 36, Debbie thinks more like 43. Whatever, he was young and had a thriving business and until this stuff struck his body he had a good life. He was convinced his little girl had this as she spoke of the fluffy things, meaning the fibers and fiber balls, but as I recall she had no lesions.”

    Elliot’s Disease
    by: Sidney 10/16/99 1:57 am

    http://members4.boardhost.com/Kritters/msg/2025.html

    Oh yea, I forgot, Michael doesn’t think Elliot’s disease is the same thing as Morgellons.

    ah

  110. Carol, there are lots of rare disorders that noone has heard of that cause symptoms similar to Morgellons, like Acanthocheilonemiasis. Obviously this does not mean they don’t exist. But, no matter how rare, those disorders have had some real scientific work done on them, and have a real case definition, and real statistics. Morgellons is purely anecdotal at this point.

  111. London, none of your stuff shows a relation to morgellons disease. My thoery on Morgellons (a short version since I am at work):

    1. People are suffering some sort of skin condition.
    2. ML starts up website
    3. People go to website and the discover “fibers.”
    4. Folks happen to have OCD like tendancys and scour their bodies for fibers and become obsessed with it.
    5. The obsession leads to depression which in turn worsens condition leading ot brain fog, fatigue, joint point (all of which can be caused my depression).
    6. Person becomes convinced they have morgellons, stop listening to doctors, refuse to aknowledge psychological condition, start spending large amounts of time on the internet looking at photos and various theories (chemtrails, wasps, Evian water) and treatments (grain alcohol, bleach, all stuff that weakens the skin).
    7. Whole life becomes consumed with picking at and looking for fibers, depression worsens, possible suicide risk.

    That seems in my humble opionion to be how it works.

    Carol, yes that is true that people do fear the unknown. Yet I am not going around beliving things from people with various silly evidence and no background in science and where there have been no studies done. So far, this is all junk science and I have learned to beleive junk science.

    911

  112. You guys might want to listen to what us sufferers have to say.

    http://www.cherokeechas.com/medialrt.htm

  113. 911 – I think you may need to work on your theory again.
    http://www.cherokeechas.com/medialrt.htm

  114. I have learned not to believe junk science. Sorry for the typos. Not enough time to check this stuff.

    When is this info from jace going to be posted?

  115. I have listened, and Greg Smith is the same guy who saw bugs fly out of him and a fiber scoot across his eye and try to burrow into it. That guy looks crazy.

  116. Aherah, sorry your comment got delayed in posting since it was marked as spam for some reason.

    Anyway, I think that Elliot’s disease IS the same as Morgellons, since the difference between individual cases of Morgellons is just as great as the difference between Elliot’s and Morgellons.

    People have been finding fibers in their lesions since the dawn of time. Some people will inevitably obsess over them, just as some people obsess over washing their hands. The internet has just allowed groups to form and magnify each other’s obsessions.

  117. Is there a link available for the Medical Mystery Documentary? I have only seen the 45 sec preview – not the entire show.

  118. SarachConnor

    I can’t wait to see what is said tonight.

  119. London, the “robot wasps” paper you linked to is an abstract for a research project on wind sensors. The “parasitoid wasps,” on the other hand, are a species that lay their eggs in caterpillars and have been used as an organic pest control measure (using wasps to kill caterpillars is safer than spraying crops with toxins). As far as I can tell, there is no relation whatsoever between the two wasps in question, nor is there any connection to Morgellons symptoms. The parasitic wasps have evolved naturally to prey on a specific species of caterpillars; they wouldn’t suddenly begin to prey on humans any more than lions would suddenly switch their diet from gazzelles to grass. If there’s some evidence of a connection between “robot wasps” and “parasitoid wasps” that I’m missing, or any connection between either of these wasp projects and Morgellons disease, please feel free to point it out.

  120. On further examination of material on parasitoid wasps, it appears that not only are they fairly innocuous to humans, but that attempts to establish them in the environment to help protect cabbage crops have failed. I’m pretty sure that if there’s some kind of plot to spread a biological agent, the conspirators would pick a more common insect and one that has less trouble establishing a population in the wild.

  121. Anyone who’s kept up with this issue, knows where the references I base my following comments on are from, but anyone who wishes me to provide links to the original statements, may ask.

    Dr. Harvey was bright enough to ascertain, back during a 2004 Reno Gazette-Journal News article, that these patients have had a breach in the immune properties of their skin. I may sound like I’m trying to be funny, here, but, I assure you, I’m not.

    The forensic guy from the police lab (Boese, I believe was his name), in the MSNBC article, also, was just brilliant with the comment he made.

    Proper skin care could alleviate this for a lot of people. Why they think they have an undiscovered pathogen at play, why they refused to believe the first, and all the consecutive medical diagnoses, adds up to only one thing.

    Anyone working on attempting to discover something, really believing they will, in my opinion, has that same condition. I’m not referring to skin issues. Well, though, Jace gets paid to do it, working on her masters degree, so, I can see her point, on some odd level of thinking, if I make myself. One would have to believe in what they’re paid to do.

    Someone wanting to make money off of such people, meaning, any doctors who diagnose and treat “morgellons disease”, could have an absolute hey-day, as I’m sure many are, as they hop onboard. Like Schwartz, for example, back at it again, in another state.

  122. I must clarify, that I was referring to educated people of combined fields of science, with various degrees in their backgrounds, in my above comment, as to whom I was referring to, in association with looking for an undiscovered pathogen.

  123. I have a headache, and my words aren’t coming out too well today. Excuse me.

  124. London, here are your “robotic wasps”. I don’t see them infecting anyone any time soon:

    http://www.mecheng.adelaide.edu.au/robotics/db_pics/projgalimg_30.jpg

    http://www.livescience.com/images/realrobots_wasp_02.jpg

    I’m only posting these pictures so people can see what you are talking about, and don’t get confused. Please do a *little* more research before posting theories and links.

  125. Only one comment to make here.

    Bad logic:

    “Because this is a medical mystery and no one has ever heard of Morgellons…does. not. mean. it. doesn’t. exist.”

    This kind of thinking can be used to affirm the existance of any fantasy, e.g.: “Just because there is no hard evidence for the existance of extraterrestrial visitors does.not.mean.they.aren’t.real” Please, no comments from the ufoologists, this is just an example.

    Folks, this is one key difference between SCIENCE and pseudo-science. If you have no hard evidence that something exists, it is, at best, a theory. At worst, a crackpot fantasy. No, just giving something a name does not make it real. One of the ways we tell the difference between useful scientific theory and crackpot nonsense is – you got it – Occams razor. Simplest explanation is usualy true. Simplest explanation in this case: Fibers are purely environmental (we’re swimming in them), lesions are caused by perfectly common well-known causes, ‘Brain Fog’ is caused by Jack Daniels, lack of sleep (or similar), crank-bug effects by neurological disorders or chemical toxology. Sorry, no synthetic super-wasps, meteor-borne bacteria, government experiments or anything else is required to explain these rather ordinary symptoms. Now everybody calm down, go see a physician, ask for treatment for your sores, do NOT offer theories or amateur diagnoses and please follow his/her advice to the letter. You will get better (if you want to). If on the other hand you are a Munchausen hypochondriac, enjoy!

  126. “People have been finding fibers in their lesions since the dawn of time. Some people will inevitably obsess over them, just as some people obsess over washing their hands. The internet has just allowed groups to form and magnify each other’s obsessions.”

    And do they also have fibers expelling from intact skin? As I recall, Dr. Wymore said that the fibers he found were usually in the surrounding intact tissue, not the lesions. I’m not an obsessive person. Anyone who knows me will tell you the same. I simply know that what I’ve been seeing and feeling for the last fourteen years is not dust. I just want to know what it is and to what extent I should be concerned about it. Does that make me obsessive? Don’t most people want to understand their medical conditions? (particularly once their kids acquire it)

    ah

  127. Great thing, Michael. Thanks. That is what is so impossible to get a handle on, concerning some original believers in “morgellons disease”, that have branched off into groups of their own. Original believers are confused enough. I don’t think they are into playing a game, that they’re all a big part of, as “citizen scientists”, though. I don’t believe they have any realization that some people, who can’t think for themselves, could fall victim to their ways of thinking. But, I imagine that only such same-minded people are wired that way to begin with. It seems as though they’re playing a game. I suppose they aren’t, although it is impossible to tell. They just want to increase their numbers to bring validity to their disease(s). That is plural, of course, since some have chosen to get away from the name, “morgellons disease”, adopting their own disease descriptions, and contacting authorities, over it.

  128. ScepticG, you sound a bit juvenile.

    Bad logic is accepting an unproven theory of illness, and then using it as a crutch for the next seventy years. It is called the Fallacy of Ancient Wisdom (Ekbom’s syndrome). There are many theories of Morgellons. None are proven, this is true. Because it has yet to be proven doesn’t mean that it never will. Once it has, we will look back on this time and remember when we, when you mocked the sick, telling them that the fibers were just a delusion. I wonder if that has ever happened before?

    I don’t have sores to request treatment for. Perhaps you should better educate yourself on the issue at hand.

    ah

  129. I see you mentioned Elliot’s disease. I first found Elliot’s before I found the MRF.

    Smileykins – Hope you will listen to me on the show tonight. I am not too well at the moment, I will do my best though.

  130. ScepticG Says:
    August 10th, 2006 at 2:15 pm

    Now everybody calm down, go see a physician, ask for treatment for your sores, do NOT offer theories or amateur diagnoses and please follow his/her advice to the letter. You will get better (if you want to). If on the other hand you are a Munchausen hypochondriac, enjoy!

    I could not possibly agree more. In my opinion, I feel with certainty, they’re all victims of themselves. Some, in the worst possible way. However, considering the child neglect & abuse, and the animals allowed to die, I am appalled, and sickened, beyond measure. I see no solution, since they all have such a mixed-up understanding of so many things, on so many levels.

  131. To Skeptic G,

    Right on!!!

  132. I’m out of it with a headache. What show, Abac68? Of course, I’ll watch.

  133. By the way, I haven’t known of a way to bring this up, since it would have been in poor taste, but enough time has elapsed now, I believe. I haven’t seen anything in reference to it, but,a few weeks ago, when “Doc” Buckner was on Coast To Coast’s talk show, he’d said that they’d had another “morgellons disease” death that day. I’ve not seen anything. Has anyone? I apologize, and don’t mean to sound insensitive, I just thought something would have surfaced by now, pertaining to his statement.

  134. Media Alert

    Rob McConnell on X-ZONE Radio

    10:00 PM – 2:00 AM Eastern

    Tonight’s Guests

    in order of appearance

    Cliff Mickelson
    Gillian Penkethman – live from Australia

    Cindy Casey, RN & Chas Holman

    Dr. Greg Smith & Judy Smith, RN

    Greg Vigil

    Final wrap up – Rob & Cliff Mickelson

  135. Well, to be honest, I’d have to look back at your fiber pics, as well as those of Hugh R. Delusional’s in order to make a call on that, Michael.

    Thank you, Abac68. I’ll listen in tonight.

    X-Zone Radio

    http://www.xzone-radio.com/

    Here’s an neat little article, with pictures included, for those who have microscopes.

    http://www.funsci.com/fun3_en/dust/dust.htm

    Affiliate stations are included on their site.

  136. Nice link – how does one treat a dust infection??!!

  137. That article makes me want to get a better microscope.

    The artritis picture was from the fuzzballs post:

    http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/07/11/fuzzballs/

    It’s a photo I took myself, of some fibers from clothes in my closet.

  138. this is not the photo I wanted to show; that one is on a pdf file and it will not let me take the photo from it alone. But here is one up close with the electron microscope.

    http://www.life.uiuc.edu/whitfield/cotesia/Cotesiacyaniridismesoscutum.jpg

  139. London, these photos illustrate an important point: things look wierd under a microscope.

    Especially for people who have never used a microscope before, when someone gets a microscope, and the first thing they do is look at their own lesions, then it’s hardly surprising that they might misinterpret what they are seeing.

    http://www.microscopyu.com/smallworld/gallery/contests/2005/7thexlarge2005.html

    http://www.microscopyu.com/smallworld/gallery/contests/2005/1stexlarge2005.html

  140. Last night…

    jace Says:
    August 9th, 2006 at 8:44 pm

    And you know what? The people who get the most defensive are the ones who think they might be wrong. I’m not one of them.

    Today (hehe)…

    jace Says:
    August 10th, 2006 at 7:38 am

    b)I still don’t understand what I’ve said that didn’t make sense and I would be more than happy to explain what I meant if someone would just tell me what they’re talking about.

    Jace, as far as I’m concerned, it amounts to very little, nothing, in fact. I don’t have anything that needs addressed with an explanation “from you”. Your comments are self-explanatory. Being a “hard science gal” isn’t a bad thing. You’ve obviously just been unable to know the scope of my, or TC’s, full opinion. Now, that’s perfectly fine, and I don’t expect for you to. But, when you trespass to the extent of stating your incorrect perception of us, that’s not all right. I realize, due to the circumstances, you aren’t able to entertain the thought any differently. The analogy you applied directly to us, based on your lack of familiarity with the topic, is befitting of completely backwards thinking. We just don’t happen to be the ones who are guilty of that, Jace.

  141. Smiley, I just wanted to let you know that I didn’t come into my job “believing in morgellons”. As a matter of fact for the first few months I didn’t WANT to believe it. I don’t feel I need to believe in the disease to research it- I’m only a research assistant. I’m there to finish my degree and gain further medical research experience. I think we all agree that the biggest problem on both sides of this issue is that people are not getting the medical care they need and deserve. Do I feel some self-diagnosing morgies are wrong? Of course. Are some DOP? Sure. But I believe there are people who truly are suffering from whatever this is. Is it viral, bacterial, parasitic? I don’t know. Possibly something these people are ingesting isn’t being properly filtered by their kidneys and the body gets it out through the skin. I like this idea, simply because that would mean this is not contagious. Maybe there is a genetic flaw that causes some people to be susceptible to something that the rest of us aren’t. Maybe everyone here is right and I’m wrong and morgellons will prove to be nothing. Maybe it’s a bizarre allergic reaction. I could “maybe”, all night long. I just wanted to say even if you thought you had it and you didn’t, doesn’t mean that nobody does. I don’t like the snake oil people or snake medicine doctors and it disgusts me that they charge ridiculous amounts to people who don’t NEED to be spending that kind of money. That we agree on.

  142. Lemon Pledge, Abac68? Just kiddin!!!!

  143. “Possibly something these people are ingesting isn’t being properly filtered by their kidneys and the body gets it out through the skin”

    OH, PISS, JACE.

  144. Yeah, you get it, that it is a helluva lot of things, right? So, since all these patients went to a doctor with the matchbox sign, who was in the wrong? The doctor. Yes, you say? Then justify that to me.

  145. Michael,

    Cool shots! Thank you.

    Try:

    http://s1.simpload.com/081044dbd6dc23a2b.jpg

  146. Jace, yes, chronic renal failure can create something called “uremic frost”, where white crystals are deposited in and on the skin. It also creates general ill feeling, generalized itching, and “brain fog”.

    So, in all probability, some morgies have chronic renal failure.

    Is this a new disease?

    (Photo: uremic frost)
    http://content.nejm.org/content/vol352/issue13/images/large/14f1.jpeg

    Like you say, the morgellons patients have a bunch of different things. That might be one of them.

    But you think that a tiny subset might actually have something that makes fibers under their skin?

    You really need to produce some statistics. Like, how many people have had identical fibers extracted from them? And, what OTHER symptoms did those people have in common.

    What’s the p value?

  147. Hey Michael, you know that until we can do controlled patient studies any statistics we had would be worthless. Self reported symptoms and patient collected samples are not going to give us any answers. There is too much contamination, and we would just be growing out normal skin flora (on the bacterial side of things). So the research goes on, and when there are statistics I will give you your p value.

  148. I think Jace says something very important here. These people are not getting the proper medical care whether morgellons is a disease or not

  149. Jace,

    It’s nice that you’re doing your research on the forums and blogs, rather than in the lab? Don’t forget to study the newspaper articles that describe how this movement began. These locations are where you’ll find the real reasons for Morgellons. Many of these people have been diagnosed with a variety of physical and mental disorders. You have a lot of background to catch up on.

  150. I had enough fibers coming out of me to stuff a cushion with, back when I was ill. Naturally, the state i was in, with heat rash being the trigger for me, I had a situation develop that turned into something serious. How the fibers got there is no mystery to me. What they began doing, was, as well as all the rest of the things I experienced, back then. It did take some time to figure out, but as soon as it stopped, and how I’d gotten it to, I knew.

    Seeing some pictures of morgie people, gee whiz, they look like they have great skin. Makes me wonder if they have one itsy-bitsy, teensy-weensy, little spot, such as Ann Dill’s daughter did, on her thigh, on the Medical Mysteries program. (So?) Those poor children. And poor little Drew, with mommy still picking away at his lip, after all these years. Living under such circumstances, these children are forever marked for life. What is going on with their skin, which is nothing rare, pales in comparison to what their poor little impressionable minds are subjected to.

  151. Michael,

    Have you received any information about this matter from Jace. She claimed to to possess some information.

    Tall Cotton

  152. But, 911, 10-40 doctors, on the average?

  153. Jace, I apologize in asking, but are you rather young?

  154. “I don’t think it’s great that there are people here who have no knowledge of medicine or even advanced biology that are saying based on THEIR personal experiences that this is not a true disease.”

    Well, Jace, just how the hell do you know how much knowledge we have or don’t haver about medicine and advanced biology. Aren’t you jumping to conclusions?

    “They are relying on science, some of you are relying on a couple people’s personal experiences.”

    That’s a joke to say that Morgies are relying on science. They rely on anything that confirms their own pet theories. Their DOP diagnoses are scientific, but they sure don’t rely on them, or take their needed medications.

    “That’s like saying “oh look the sky is green today, and then someone jumps on that idea with you and says “oh look the sky is green” But all along everyone else knew it was blue as always.”

    Well, Smart ass, why don’t you read our blog. All you have to do is click on my name and it will take you right to it. No, I don’t like you, not in the leaast. You come in here calling Michael an asshole, and it’s you that’s the asshole. You talk like you know something about Morgellons, and you don’t know a shitting thing.

    Tall Cotton

  155. Tallcotton- when I’m at work, I research doing hands on science or dealing with patient questions. When I’m home I monitor this and other forums because all info helps. If I find a trend among sufferers then it may just be a puzzle piece that could help with our research. I assume you were sarcastic with your comment about me learning from these forums, but there really are things to be learned- from everyone- morgies, cynics skeptics, and non believers along with the morgies. I would love to hear your story. The only morgies I hear from are the ones who are desperate. When I talk to them on the phone they are so desperate for anyone to believe in them- I listen and then I give them the Wymore/Casey letter and tell them to call their doctor. I leave it to the doctor to diagnose and treat the patients. The doctor jumpers are in somewhat of a different situation because just the fact that they are `going from doctor to doctor leads the next doctor to start considering psychiatric reasons for their problems. I never get to talk with anyone who is recovered or recovering, because they don’t need me. But I HAVE talked to several people who have been to only one doctor that they’ve known and trusted, and those people stick with that doc. The doctors eventually end up saying “I don’t know”. These are the people I am more likely to believe as real morgellons patients. Their doctors have cared enough to call and ask what they can do for their patients. You always have a harsh tone with me, and I’m not sure why. If I offended you, I’m sorry. You have no idea how hard it is to talk to person after person when all I can say is we don’t really know anything yet. They don’t like to hear that and I take quite a bit of verbal abuse. I’m sorry that after a particularly long and draining day yesterday I didn’t phrase my words the way I wanted them. So sorry for toe stepping etc, I’m just trying to learn more. I’m interested in morgies, ex-morgies, and completely non-morgies. Good information can come from anywhere. You never know when one random comment can lead to a discovery. That’s how research goes. Please refrain from being so cynical towards me- we probably could learn from each other.

  156. Since you’re here, Jace, and since you’re working on it…Wymore needed a project for grad students, and came across “morgellons disease” on the internet. Is that not what happened? Meaning, you all REALLY DON’T know the score?

  157. Man, if everybody ain’t hoodwinked into this shit, I’m a-tellin’ you. It makes a great project, though, to help towards your degree, for sure. Just a damned dumb one.

  158. Good grief- when have I asked you to like me? And what reason do you have for not liking me? Because I’m the only scientist on this forum? And yes, I did make assumptions that I shouldn’ have, my mistake. if you’ll notice Michael has vouched that I’m who I say I am. And yes Michael did get info from me- I’m sure he’s probably writing it up now.

    Smiley- I don’t know what you consider young, but I’m 33.

  159. The Morgies have been properly diagnosed with various medical problems like sarcoidosis, lyme disease, diabetes millitus, krohn’s syndrome, rhumatoid arthritis, eczema, psoriasis, folliculitis, and other diseases, but they have been convinced that all of their ailments are actually caused by Morgellons. So they forgo taking their needed medication and waste their time looking for Mary Leitao’s illusive and novel organism, which does not exist. They also need medication for OCD, DOP, BDD, Munchausens Syndrome, Schizophrenia, Depression, but no.. They have Morgellons. Bullshit!! They’re really sick, and getting sicker, thanks to the Myth of Morgellons.

  160. I’m sorry, Jace and everyone. Yes, I know how trying it is to deal with morgies. Thatis a big clue for you, as to what you’re dealing with. That is why TC and I are cynical. Because we know. I don’t mean to be this way, but I know quite a bit from a six month plus journey on their message boards with them.

  161. I played your own words right back to you. If you can’t see where those words would anger me, then that’s your problem. How do I make it any clearer. You judged our personal stories without even reading them, and said that reality isn’t the way we described it. The “sky was really blue all along”. You are overly arrogant and you need to stop and think before you open your mouth. You aren’t an authority on this matter, not by far.

  162. Actually that isn’t at all how this came about. Dr Wymore had 1 grad student who was working on his PhD when Wymore first made the move from TU to OSU, and he was doing his research on cardiac ion channels.At this point Wymore came across the articles or maybe the MRF website, and that grad student had to move back east. I was his advisee when I started my graduate work at TU in 2000- at that point we were studying pacemaker channels in the heart. I left TU, he left TU and then his tech quit and I came into the picture as his assistant. He now has an epidemiology PhD student. She came well after all Wymore decided to join the MRF(over a year later) I don’t believe I’ll even do my master’s on morgellons, mostly because I think it will be quite a bit longer than a year to fully analyze what seems to be going on. Any more questions? I don’t mind answering them, but I kinda don’t feel like being tromped on either.

  163. It is basically what I said, isn’t it, though, Jace? A graduate studies’ project. Therefore, excuse us, because you aren’t required to know anything outside of your lab studies, concerning what this is. Really, I mean,, when you get right down to it. Tall Cotton was definitely not being sarcastic when he said to look at old news stories on it, and message boards. Oh, not in the least. And when you said:

    The doctor jumpers are in somewhat of a different situation because just the fact that they are `going from doctor to doctor leads the next doctor to start considering psychiatric reasons for their problems.

    That isn’t quite how it goes, Jace.

  164. I did not claim to be an authority on this. Who can be when no one knows much of anything? You know I have never in my life been accused of being arrogant, I believe you’re misinterpreting my meaning. Sorry. Arrogant, huh? Interesting. I didn’t mean to ruffle your feathers, but I don’t think I said anything to necessitate this level of hostility toward myself.

  165. Well, good night angry ones.

  166. I have this disease for 2 yrs. now, it’s recked my life, contacted CDC numerous times, they do nothing. These parasites stay under the top layer of my skin have to constently scaping to remove them, apply scabies cream in order to control it daily. Stayed indoors for this length of time in order not to spread it to the public, it’s in my vehicle as well (3rd vehicle already), then, I transport it into the house, rediculious how there’s no cure for this freightening rare disease, but one thing I must say the 99 cent city store in ShopRite Supermarket strip Mall S.I., NY have it in there floor mops they are selling and refuse to remove it from the store, but trust me you can clearly see them in those mops billions of Morgellons fibers and they bit hard/hurt…

  167. I don’t mean to tromp, Jace. Comparing the two of us to that, tell someone the sky is green, and they fall for it, when the sky is still blue, though, whether you are even aware of what you said, is PRECISELY what this nonsense is all about!!!

  168. I don’t think you even know what you did say.

  169. Smileykins, Jace is trying to be scientific. Sure, she believes in “Morgellons” to a degree, and that’s perhaps a little hard to accept, but maybe we can just get past that, past the “you don’t know shit” rationales for arguments, and actually talk about something constructive? Like standards of evidence.

    What is in debate here? Jace thinks some Morgies have DOP, she thinks some have incorrectly self-diagnosed, fine, no argument there. She also thinks “some” might have something unusual going on. We don’t know exactly what her evidence is.

    We should be asking more useful questions.

    Like:

    How many people have this unusual stuff going on?
    What is the unusual stuff?
    How long and wide are the fibers?
    How many fibers per square foot of skin do they produce per day?
    How deep are the fibers under the skin?
    How do you extract the fibers?
    When the fibers are extracted, does it leave a mark?
    Do the fibers move in an unusual way?
    Is there a correlation between itch areas and fibers?
    On an non-morg, given the EXACT SAME level of scrutiny, how many fibers do you find?
    Giving a ball of laundry lint to the Tulsa police department, can they identify 100% of the fibers therein?
    What is the FTIR spectrum of your fibers?

  170. Well, I am arrogant, and always have been. If you need not study anything outside of the lab work you’re doing, just beware of making silly comments.

  171. I’m sorry Michael. What’s done is done now. That analogy of hers really lit me up, when we’re not the ones behind that deceptive game playing and messing with peoples heads when they already have problems with their perception.

  172. Julia, I am glad you have found this blogsite and taken the time to post on it.What is happening to you is something that happens to other people too. Please take a deep breath and try to understand that people and the CDC do care about you. Since hundreds of people use those kind of mops and don’t get sick, it may be that you are especially sensitive and allergic to that kind of mop. So you perhaps can find some relief by not worrying so much about what is going to happen to other people, and think about what you can do for yourself to try and get better. I hope you can find time to look at some of the posts on this site by a fellow who has nicknamed himself “Michael” . It is only natural that sometimes our skin itches but if you think about it too much all the time, our minds play tricks and it somehow then seems that something is living under the skin. But it isn’t. Please try to stop appling the scabies medicine so much, and give my idea a try, that is that there is not really a living organism there, and may just be an allergic reaction to the mop fibers. Then post another comment and hopefully it will say that you have relaxed and that the allergic reactions have gotten better.

  173. I think Jace is a valuable assest to this forum and her research, whether the disease is real or not, is valuable to all of us. This stuff need to be investigated.

  174. London, those are some great pictures of wasps!

    However, they’re not robotic wasps, just regular ones, and as I’ve mentioned above, they’re really only equipped to parasitize caterpillars, not people (and there aren’t really thriving populations of them in the USA in the first place).

  175. You people are all stupid jackasses.Think i’ll go give blood.Perhaps,just perhaps, one of you morons will come in contact with it.Then your quest for the truth will be gruesomely answered.

  176. I think all usable research has its value. That’s why I was trying to find out if any data had been shared. There’s just been so many times in the past that people have claimed to have info that others aren’t privy to, and never come forth with it. If Jace has provided some usable information, that’s great. I just hope that the reams of psychological and psychiatric information aren’t ignored. It’s obvious that DOP has not only come out of the closet but has also gone mainstream.

  177. What is being researched? That is what I fail to understand. Just “what is” being researched? The valuable questions that I’ve tried getting out of morgie people in the past, have brought forth total outrage, for the mere asking, or complete silence.

  178. They don’t want to know about any known diseases, or anything of a psychiatric nature, that could account for their symptoms. It has to be something new, and mysterious, and it has to be a single disease, accounting for all of their various symptoms.

  179. Infinity waltz,

    Hi, I have been away for the last 5 hours of so, just now seeing your post. Okay, the wasp, lets just block out the robotic part. Now we are back to the parasitoid, transgenic lil bitch of a wasp. They call them No See Ums due to their smallness.

    I found 3 in my home, took them to Orkin who also sent them off to Texas Am Ag. Dept for Idenification. Confirmed, along with a couple of parasitoid flies.

    It;s not really the wasp per say, it the venom and the bacteria they have cloned into the venom.

    It is WOLBACHIA. yes, so they say it is natural in some insects but not natural in this parasitoid wasp. No it is not.

    They cloned it. Now this wasp surely may be no harm to humans themselves but it is to the caterpillars and the other insects that the wasp stings with its venom. Remember, it’s the wolbachia doing the damange.

    It was also cloned and released into the crops in the predator mites, the spiders and the collembola. In fact, I beleive there was 12 insects in all.

    does not matter. B/c when the wasp stings the other insects and they bite us….(the mosquito, the flea, etc., well, then it does effect humans.

    For the flea is how I believe I became ill. (I am allergic and had 23 flea bites in one session where the flea(s) had entered into the ankle of my jeans and went on up….as, I was driving a vehicle….it was munching. when I got to my destination and ripped the jeans off, that is when and where I saw the lil flea and all the bites it inflicted. Not 10 days gpo by and I was out getting quite a bit of sun on my back from being in Mexico on holiday and boom, the dart-like bitching pain set in. I’m talking PAIN in waves of like 10-15 darts felt like they were being thrown into my back from 5 feet away. this lasted for about 30 seconds and would subside for a good minute or two, then come right back with another round.

    I went to the resort Doc immediately. She could not see a thing wrong (no obvious stings, etc.) I was told after I finally fell asleep at 4 in the a.m. that I still then jumped and yelped in my sleep from the pain.

    The next day was A-okay, No pain, no marks, no nothing.

    2 weeks later the stomach gurgling, burning and sickness set in.
    2 months later, the eyes began to rapidly deteriorate. My black spots were so bad that I started to swat at what I tought were flies/gnats….but nope, only black spots. I have now only got minimal vision in my right eye.

    I had no eye problems before in my life, never wore glasses or contacts.

    then ….well, I won’t bore you all anylonger. Sorry to get carried away. But the wolbachia is a bitch in humans.

    this disease also will cause bartonella infections in most of us wich is the same as II.cat-scratch Disease, wheich is synonymous with bacuillary angiomatosis (which I have on my left forearm and inside my right nostril) WHICH IS THE SAME DAMN THING AS LATE STAGE HIV.

    THE BARTONELLAS, WELL, OUT OF THE 19 SPECIES, ONLY 2 WILL EVEN SHOW UP ON A MOLECULAR TEST.

    THE MORAL TO THE STORY IS THE THEY HAVE MADE A CLEVER LIL MAN-MADE DISEASE AND I HOPE THEY ROT IN HELL WITH THESE BITCHING FIBERS STICKING THEM IN THEIR EYES…..

    ME? I’M GONNA BE UP IN HEAVEN WITH SMILEY AND TC !

  180. London,

    If you believe in forever
    Then life is just a one night stand
    If there’s a rock ‘n roll Heaven

    Well, I know they’ve got a helluva band!!!

  181. OK, enough silliness.

    I can prove this is all Munchausen hooey with basic logic.

    Why some mysterious disease that nobody understands? Simple. Because if nobody understands it, it can’t be cured. If it can’t be cured, you can go on ‘suffering’ as long as you like.

    If you had a real disease, like scabies or athletes foot, it would be treated and you’d get better. Then you’d have nothing to obsess about.

    End of story.

    As for the individuals seeking to take advantage from these poor folks, shame on you.

  182. Someone wrote:

    “I had enough fibers coming out of me to stuff a cushion with, back when I was ill.”

    As someone who has been willing to consider Morgellons to be real, I have to ask: where were people with these pronounced fiber symptoms on the ABC show? They paraded several of the most famous and supposedly credible Morgellons cases before the camera, but NONE of them were able to produced any fiber symptoms for the camera. The closest they came was the tiny black hair-like thing on the little boy’s lip. Nothing like the bundles of multi-colored fibers I’ve seen pictures of.

    Mrs. Koch talked about seeing black stuff coming out of her in the shower, but where was that stuff when the cameras showed up? And she had always been talking about her entire family having the disease, but she showed no proof of her kids having it, and her husband wouldn’t even come on the show. And she admitted her husband didn’t have open sores like her, but rather “pimples” or “acne” with “black stuff” coming out. It sounded like she was describing blackhead pimples to me. Quick- alert the CDC, every third teenager has Morgellons.

    Dr. Smith had a video of what looked to be a hair next to his toe, but he had no fibers to display for the camera. Same with Mr. Letaieo (sp?). And all of her kids seemed to me to be happy and active. Even the one with the pimple that she was worried about. A pimple? Please.

    I honestly was bracing myself to be scared of what I saw on the ABC program because I thought it would be convincing. But it was anything but. I TIVO’ed it and it was even less convincing the second time.

  183. Here is what I have- it’s not conclusive by any means, but it is at least some evidence:
    We have tested three fibers, two blue, one red.
    We are completely unable to determine what these fibers are made from, because there is no match in any known databases.

    There isn’t even anything that is a close match.
    The red fiber is chemically different to the blue fibers.
    The blue fibers are chemically identical to each other.
    The fibers sat in acid and many other solvents we had for a week, but they did not leach color.
    The fibers did not melt or boil when heated to 1400F (760C). They kept their structural integrity, although they did turn black (whereas anything organic would be ash at those temps)

    I realize it’s not much, but until our paper is public I won’t be able to show any graphs, etc. In this world of academia if something gets leaked someone else can jump in on your research and get an article out first, without having to do any gruntwork. This is why I can’t show and explain the graphs (that and the fact that I’m most definitely not a chemist) I’m sorry that I appeared to get off on the wrong foot here. I will, before I post anything, think long and hard before actually posting it. And when I say I believe in morgellons, I mean that I believe there is something causing fibers under the skin- I’ve seen enough up close and personal fibers that are clearly not on top of the skin, they appear to be under the top layer of the epidermis. I have no clue what the cause could be, but there are just too many coincidences for me to believe it’s all random occurances. But I too, cringe when I hear of people hurting themselves to try to rid themselves of their symptoms. And yes, the kids and the pets are very, very sad. As I’ve said before I think there are true sufferers of whatever this is, and I think there are many who truly do need a psychiatrist or other medical expert.

    As for what we’re researching- at the moment we continue to grow bacterial cultures from patient submitted samples (not ideal, obviously, because the normal skin flora is what we’ve been growing out) but when we get aseptic physician submitted samples then the PCR and sequencing will get off to a running start. Unfortunately not much science has been done lately because of the media blitz, but hopefully soon we will fully return to the realm of science.

  184. You are so right, SkepticG. It’s so much easier to blame a mysterious disease for what ails ya than to say you’re depressed, or lazy, or tired, or…

  185. “Why some mysterious disease that nobody understands? Simple. Because if nobody understands it, it can’t be cured. If it can’t be cured, you can go on ’suffering’ as long as you like.”

    “Basic” circular logic is what has hindered progress in this matter in the first place.

    You’re sick and you happen to have fibers coming out of your flesh. You go to your doctor and ask him if the fibers might have something to do with the swelling and rash that has engulfed your body. He stamps “DOP” on your head, gives you a prescription for antipsychotics, and sends you home. Months later, you are still sick, possibly even moreso. Back to the doctor…I don’t think so. You turn to alternative methods for healing. We all just want to be healed and get on with our lives.

    Why did he determine that you were DOP to begin with? Well, it wasn’t because of any history of mental illness, you have none. It simply stated in his big book that when a person comes to you with fibers, you tag, label, and send them on their merry way. It has been done like that for years, and it will continue to be done like that for years to come. Because they have always done it thus, it is considered “correct.” (the fallacy of ancient wisdom).

    So, what did the FBI say the fibers were made from? Oh yea, because their findings don’t concur with your opinion, THEY are all idiots, right? Yes, attacking the person(s) always makes you more right???????

    How about your appeal to ridicule, “You will get better (if you want to). If on the other hand you are a Munchausen hypochondriac, enjoy!” Ya, I suppose all people who don’t find relief of their illness through the standard treatments of medical doctors are really just hypochondriacs in denial.

    HOW COMMON ARE MEDICAL MISTAKES?
    They are too common. Although exact estimates are difficult to find, it is not surprising that an industry as stretched, complex, and burdened as the medical industry is fraught with errors. Many errors go unreported and tracking their exact prevalence is difficult. Nevertheless, bearing in mind that about 2.5 million deaths occur annually in the USA, here are some of the statistics and death rate estimates from various reports:
    · 42% of people believed they had personally experienced a medical mistake (NPSF survey)
    · 44,000 to 98,000 deaths annually from medical errors (Institute of Medicine)
    · 225,000 deaths annually from medical errors including 106,000 deaths due to “nonerror adverse events of medications” (Starfield)
    · 180,000 deaths annually from medication errors and adverse reactions (Holland)
    · 20,000 annually to 88,000 deaths annually from nosocomial infections
    · 2.9 to 3.7 percent of hospitalizations leading to adverse medication reactions
    · 7,391 deaths resulted from medication errors (Institute of Medicine)
    · 2.4 to 3.6 percent of hospital admissions were due to (prescription) medication events (Australian study)
    http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm

    Apparently, Morgellons sufferers aren’t the only ones who are less-than-confident of their doctor’s methods.

    Skeptic G, your logic is flawed.

    Aherah

  186. Jace, may we have the chemical content of the fibers? Were they wool?

  187. Lordy. It seems that you folks should lay off Jace a teeny bit. Seeing how she’s working directly with Wymore (who seems to be the one guy tackling the “science” side of Morgellons, rather than the sensationalism), she can most likely bring some helpful information to this message board. She herself admits to approaching this phenomenon with a skeptic’s attitude and has not entirely dismissed DOP, exuma, etc. If this truly is a strange emerging disease thusfar unrecognized in medical literature, her work will help determine that. More importantly (especially for the folks on this site), if these fibers are actually synthetic and environmental, she will provide you with the hard, undisputed, scientific explaination for morgellons, thus debunking the condition, and (hopefully) putting the controversy to rest. And then above all, we will know the proper approach to helping and healing these people.

    So please try to tone down the verbal attacks, since she is apparently your most reliable contributor from the science field and her credentials have been verified by the site administrator. Otherwise, you’ll just run her off, and you just may turn into the sensationalists you so adamently oppose.

  188. Smiley- if the fibers had any composition known to any database, there would have been a match. Wool would be on every database. So would any other textile you can think of and a lot of inorganic substances as well. All completely ruled out by repeated testing.

  189. A new fiber thread has been spun, shuttle over and weave the discussion there:

    http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/08/11/fibers-on-primetime/

  190. WA, you may wish to re-check the dates on the comments and see that things were resolved. We apologized and moved on.

  191. Nice try Ahera, but the logic is linear, not circular.

    Jace has a vested interest in the mystery – a self-styled researcher who stands to benefit bigtime if somebody takes this nonsense seriously. If Jace actually finds anything, the findings have to be reproduced independently in formal testing by another unrelated testing agency. So nobody get excited just because Jace claims that something doesn’t match some unnamed database.

    The FBI are not the Centre for Disease Control. Please. They investigate crime scenes, not infections. Besides, it wasn’t the FBI it was an (unnamed) guy in the lab at the Tulsa police department.

    There is NO evidence of any fibers coming out of anybody beyond the unsubstantiated claims of a few people.

    Statistics on medical mistakes are totally irrelevant. For every mistake there are hundreds of thousands of correct diagnoses. “Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics”.

    So all we have is a lot of lurid descriptions and wild theories. No hard evidence at all.

    This is what happens when they stop teaching critical thinking in public school.

  192. Right on, SkepticG. With her present attitude, Jace is part of the problem, not the solution. And, WA, one can’t say Jace didn’t ask for it, as witness comment # 1 on this thread.In my humble opinion, she should be in the lab lining up patients to examine for fibers, and not on the internet arguing with bloggers.

  193. In the fallacy of circular reasoning (aka begging the question) you assume to be true what you are supposed to be proving.

    MD #1: What makes you think that that person is delusional?

    MD #2: Because he is.

    The first point is never scientifically proven. This is circular reasoning. Fortunately, “they” still teach critical thinking in higher education.

    “Forensic scientist Ron Pogue at the Tulsa Police Crime Lab in Oklahoma checked a morgellons sample against known fibers in the FBI’s national database. “No, no match at all. So this is some strange stuff,” Pogue says. He thinks the skeptics are wrong. “This isn’t lint. This is not a commercial fiber. It’s not.”

    The lab’s director, Mark Boese, says the fibers are “consistent with something that the body may be producing.” He adds, “These fibers cannot be manmade and do not come from a plant. This could be a byproduct of a biological organism.” ” http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2283503&page=3

    Perhaps you should tell Ron Pogue that he is mistaken. Judging from your tone, I’m sure you know better how to do his job than he does.

    “Statistics on medical mistakes are totally irrelevant.” No. They are entirely relevant when accusing a group of ligitamately sick people that they are hypochondriacs. Most intelligent people scrutinize the opinions of their doctors, particularly when the doctors have no clue what is going on with their patient but are too proud to admit that. The statistics prove that it is in your best interest to not blindly follow every command of your doctor. It’s your life he risks, not his.

    Define “few.” The last I heard it was +/-5,500 families that we know of. Yeah, just a few.

    We have no “hard” evidence yet. Give it time. We’ve only just begun.

    Aherah

  194. Johnboy, I am not Jace.

  195. Smiley, you maie me smile, you really do…..

    SkepG or you the “chem G” that once had this yourself? hmmm….

    Aherah,

    Very good post indeed.

    London

    PS: I just wanted to give a shout out to my fav….TC! I know he just loves me to write….hahaha

  196. ScepticG’s logic was wrong qua logic, but he was really just making the point that it makes sense that a person with Munchausen’s would stick on Morgellons, since it’s an inexplicable syndrome with no case definition and no diagnostic criteria, hence you can’t demonstrate that the person does not have it, which makes it easier to claim you have it.

    This does not prove anything, but it’s not wrong or internally inconsistent.

  197. So a person with Munchausen can beleive that they have Morgellons; yes this is plausible. It does not prove that a person with a strange, unknown disorder/disease has Munchausen. Again, SkepG (perhaps for “Grove”) is attempting to discredit people by making broad generalizations that he cannot prove.

    ah

  198. SkepticG does not have to prove the statement that “there is no evidence of any fibers coming out of anybody beyond the unsubstatiated claims of a few people”.

  199. I didn’t ask him to prove the statement you refer to.

    What Johnboy? You don’t think it is inappropriate for people to make claims about other people with no proof? Gosh, I thought that is what you folks have been saying all along.

    Now, who has Munchausen and how has this been established?

    MD #2 He has Munchausen.

    MD #1 Why does he have Munchausen?

    MD #2 Because he claims to have Morgellons.

    So tell me Johnboy, does this look OK to you? Why?

    ah

  200. Of course it does not look okay, it’s a straw man, it’s not supposed to look okay. Someone who claims to have Morgellons does not automatically have Munchausen. People who claim to have Morgellons obviously have all kinds of different things wrong with.

    What is this, high school debate society? Feel free to niggle over semantics, but you are simply avoiding the tough questions:

    What is the evidence that Morgellons is a distinct disease?

    What is the evidence that fibers have anything to do with it?

  201. Aherah says:

    “What Johnboy? You don’t think it is inappropriate for people to make claims about other people with no proof? Gosh, I thought that is what you folks have been saying all along.”

    Actually, and Michael has said this before, the burden of proof in this case is on those that believe that Morgellons is a distinct disease (especially those soliciting donations). I’m not saying that you personally have to prove it, but it’s not up to the skeptics to prove it *doesn’t* exist, it’s up to the “believers” to prove that it *does.* That said, the skeptics who post here, especially Michael, generally do a much better job substantiating their claims that the morgellons sufferers do.

    But let’s look at the subject of proof: It just occurred to me that if I’m asking for proof that morgellons exists from the “morgellons camp” what would that constitute? What would satisfy me that it’s a distinct disease? Pictures? I’ve seen plenty of those. Microscopic pictures of fibers and scabs mean nothing to me–*everything* looks bizarre and unreconizable to me when it’s magnified 30+ x. Even a video (especially if it was magnified) wouldn’t be much in the way of proof to me because again, I probably wouldn’t be able to identify what I was seeing, only what I was *told* I was seeing.

    For me personally, it will probably take the CDC coming out with a case definition for Morgellons, or at the very least, OSU or some other research hospital to identify the fibers in question as produced *within* the human body and caused by a specific pathogen. It would probably take mainstream medicine identifying it as a distinct disease with distinct symptoms and presentation. Sorry, but I just can’t take it on faith, though I truly do have sympathy for those who are suffering.

    For example, ABC Primetime showed Dr. Smith’s toe with what looked to be a hair or other fiber stuck to it or possibly even in it. Dr. Smith claimed it was very painful when he pulled it out. I’ll take his word for that but there was no further explanation (that I can recall) of the fiber on/in his toe. So am I supposed to believe it was something unusual when it didn’t look unusal at all to me? I just can’t do that.

    I honestly don’t believe that morgellons is all in the sufferers heads. I believe that they suffer from a variety of different ailments and that based on *their interpretation* of their symptoms coupled with information on the internet, they’ve self-diagnosed themselves with morgellons. DOP might apply in some cases, but probably not even the majority. Also, being diagnosed with some form of mental illness does NOT mean someone is crazy. Most of the world walks around with some form of mental illness or another. Some are diagnosed and treated, others are not for one reason or another. So just to say someone is crazy is meaningless
    may well have nothing to do with morgellons. Based on what I’ve read on this blog, a lot of those who say they have morgellons seem to be suffering from some emotional problem or another. However, which came first, the chicken or the egg? If you’re having severe skin problems and horrible itching that goes on and on and on, that would certainly be enough to give *me* some emotional “issues.” So if someone says they have morgellons and seems to also have some emotional/mental issues I would never presume that the emotional stuff was causing the belief in morgellons–I’d be much more likely to believe it’s the other way around.

    This post ended up being much longer than I’d intended…

  202. Hmmm, it looks like the above post got kind of messed up, but the general message I was trying to get across is still there. I must’ve interrupted myself in mid-thought. Sorry.

  203. The strangeness the X-Zone radio broadcast was heightened by so many things they said (some, quite hysterically), such as repeating that “there is no available test for morgellons disease”. Putting down doctors over that unfounded misconception that they all have, that they have not practiced the correct procedures of diagnosis, was quite astounding, as well. They’re following what they’ve been taught, for goodness sakes, and they have been taught correctly.

    Morgie people are in such denial over so many things, believing that nothing is known about delusional parasitosis, seeming as though they’re assuming that if they say it enough (I suppose), that it will make it more real. Of course, that’s a symptom of it. I don’t know, but Ekbom’s Syndrome seems to be as far as their knowledge goes on the matter. There have been plenty of case studies on it, since then. Delusions aren’t hard to diagnose. Not learning about it, doesn’t make it change for the rest of the world. There is so much available right at everyones’ fingertips, yet, it seems not to matter in the least.

    I have to think that quite a few of the people claiming that they went to a mental health referral, either didn’t, or they completely withheld what they needed to tell them. They would have probably found out, exactly what I’ve read so many times. If their general practitioners didn’t perform the tests to check them for parasitic infestations, the mental health doctor would, as part of the patient’s treatment, to either rule it in, or rule it out.

    Then, everything would have been properly taken care of, by doing what most of us do, in following our doctors diagnoses. Mary Leitao is who publicly announced, herself, in the papers, and on television, that psychiatric evaluation was in order for her, for Munchausen-by-Proxy. I suppose she didn’t go, considering she hasn’t stopped using her child as was “hoped for” in the letter. Raskal even thinks “any good shrink would see through it”, if one were to withhold telling all. No, another misconception. We are supposed to be open with doctors.

  204. One more thing…

    I want to clarify what I said above re: “most of the world walks around w/ one mental illness or another.” What I should have said was that everyone develops coping skills over their lifetime, some of which are unhealthy and can lead to disruption and/or disfunction in their lives. For some this means having a mental disorder, having it diagnosed, and having it treated, while others are never diagnosed or treated. Still, most of the world just goes about their business, getting by the best they can, coping skills and all.

    What all this means for “morgellons” has yet to be seen but I didn’t want to make it seem like I thought everyone walked around with a mental illness.

  205. Smileykins, I agree with much of what you said re: openness w/ doctors, mental health referrals, etc. However, I wanted to point out that sometimes, even if you are open with your doctor, it is kind of hard to explain some physical symptoms one might be having. The other day I got dizzy and felt off balance and I really couldn’t attribute it to anything that normally would cause that feeling (such as getting up too fast). For the life of me I couldn’t think of a way to explain the feeling other than saying “dizzy” and “off balance” but felt that really didn’t describe the feeling very well. I wondered if it was enough of a description so that a doctor would know what was wrong. Of course, I know they’d do all kinds of tests to see if it was a neurological problem or something, but my point here is that as the potential patient, I’d have a hard time explaining the feeling I had because it seemed intangible, unlike a skin disorder or something else visibly wrong.

    I suspect part of the problem with morgellons patients may be interpretation of ones symptoms and then trying to explain those symptoms to someone else. Frustration is can often follow, and a lack of desire to continue treatment or see another doctor.

  206. Robert Says:
    August 11th, 2006 at 8:14 am
    Someone wrote:

    “I had enough fibers coming out of me to stuff a cushion with, back when I was ill.”

    As someone who has been willing to consider Morgellons to be real, I have to ask: where were people with these pronounced fiber symptoms on the ABC show?

    Smileykins, here, was who’d said that, Robert. That was 4 years ago, and I was in a pitiful state of extreme ill health. Heat exhaustion & kidney stones. I became unable to wear clothes, due to the state my skin was in. Haha, television would have been out of the question for me!!! (I laugh about it now. It wasn’t a fun time.) I was like Abac68, in that I didn’t only have fibers trapped within my epidermis, I had pet hair, and other debris. Everyone is different, of course, with a lot of different things involved. No two people can be alike, other than having similar effects. I was in a delusional state, myself, with hallucinations. I didn’t know I was, until I made it stop, when I saw I was leaving this world. I got better real fast, then.

  207. Hey has anyone ever seen that old television special called “The Cube” produced by Jim Henson (at the end he licks a cut and finds its strawberry jam)? Maybe I’m the only one really here, and this is all an illusion. (Mark Twain seemed to think so too…read his “Mysterious Stranger”!) the Matrix…Solaris…that big hand coming down into that town in the Twilight Zone…Total Recall/Sixth Day… UFO’s… spontaneous combustion (which has more going for it than many realize)… who knows WHAT is real. Science is not comfortable enough to even acknowledge the phenomena…how comforting THAT is.

    Well, I’m comfortable…for now. My bet is on fibers/granules of a specific composition working their way through the body out to the skin after being ingested somehow.

  208. Nah. you’d only crap those fibers and granules out, if you ingested them, John. But that takes us into a whole other part of what some people report, and it isn’t in the “case definition”. (Whoa)

  209. I really don’t have a lot of time here today, but MHKS you really hit the nail on the head when you talk about our lack of appropriate vocabulary to convey what we feel. Honestly, the attempts to do so just make us appear crazier. It is frustrating. Even when providing visual cues to explain what I see I have learned to be ultra-cautious. Many doctors seem to waiting for the right words to seal your fait. I know that when I’ve said, “I can tell you that it looks like __________ but I do not believe that is what it is,” what was transcribed in my medical file indicated that I said something completely different. Had I taped this exchange, I’d have a lawsuit in the works today.

    As far as the “proof” goes, I haven’t proved that Morgellons is a distinct disease, but new diseases do and can happen. In addition, it is not unusual for people who acquire these previously unknown conditions to have been initially attacked with labels like “hypochondriac” or “munchausen” which are not only unproven, but have the effect of pigeon-holing the sufferer, thus making it even more difficult to solicit the type of help that could provide the “proof.”

    Take Care,
    Aherah

  210. Don’t waste your time on morgellonswatch.com. This website is being paid for by the people responsible for spreading this disease/parasite/bacteria, whatever it is.

    Factual information can be found at:
    http://biology-online.org/biology-forum/about1958-3324.html (note that you scroll through the posts on the biology website by using the “GoTo Page…” in the upper right hand corner.

    Also see:
    http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol9no2/02-0222.htm and here is more:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2768446&dopt=Abstract
    I just found out it is from the tobacco hornworm! This is the insect that the parasitoid wasp does a number on!!

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/10/041025120719.htm

    I have been trying to tell you guys about the ricsettsia diseases, in which they now call all of them the Bartonellas:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/12/051219084711.htm

    Lice Join Ticks As Possible Disease Carriers
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050328182844.htm

  211. Randy, I see that a Morgie is posting on LB, begging for a place to stay. I also see there are no takers. When I don’t take the cheap bets to come live with you, I must be scared.

    When a Morgie is reaching out to other Morgies, and no one is making space …. who is scared?

  212. Clues to Patients’ Explanations and Concerns About Their Illnesses
    A Call for Active Listening

    http://archfami.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/9/3/222#SEC7

  213. A few random excerpts from the JAMA Archives of Family Medicine (in the above link), to illustrate that doctors aren’t as underskilled in patient observation as some, who may not be aware, may choose to assume…

    Patients present to health care professionals because of symptoms and concerns that they often indirectly express through clues. The taxonomy of new and previously referenced clues attempts to improve communication by helping clinicians recognize many ways that patients introduce their ideas, concerns, and expectations into the encounter. Feedback from our study participants using the interpersonal process recall technique confirmed the association of identified clues with specific, previously unexpressed ideas, concerns, or expectations they had about their illnesses. While we have described a number of patient clues, this list is certainly not exhaustive. Future research is needed to identify how people from a variety of backgrounds indirectly communicate their concerns to clinicians.

    The classification of clues roughly parallels the patient’s process of evolving meaning from symptoms. Patients interpret symptoms in the context of personal, family, and life experience. Spontaneously shared personal stories may provide input into this contextual background. The patient’s attempts to understand symptoms often generate a series of hypotheses or explanations, which may result in problem-solving statements, as reflection of this self-diagnostic process. Many of these self-generated hypotheses create concern and anxiety. Patients’ emotionally charged expressions may provide an avenue into broader issues of the patient’s perspective. Several authors have described the tension that patients experience between wanting to share their perspective and their embarrassment and reluctance to verbalize frightening ideas and feelings. It is our belief that this tension can produce the speech clues first identified by investigators at the University of Western Ontario and frequently observed in our study.

    Identifying patients’ clues and exploring their underlying meaning can be an efficient means to bring together patients and physicians. The physician’s focus on the patient’s symptoms in an effort to correctly diagnose the underlying disease reduces attention and/or response to patients’ clues. This focus probably best explains why clinicians frequently follow such clues with additional questions about the characteristics of presenting symptoms. Developing and utilizing active listening skills and being patient centered requires that clinicians maintain their diagnostic orientation while concurrently seeking the patient’s perspective on illness (PPI). Once the PPI is expressed, it is possible to address the concerns in an explicit way relevant to the patient’s real reason for the visit.

    Why a person of trust should go to an appointment if you have a communication gap in speaking with a physician:

    BEHAVIOR CLUES

    Certain overt behaviors can serve as clues to unexpressed ideas and concerns.

    Presence of Other People

    For the very young, the reason of additional persons during visits seems obvious. For other patients, the presence of additional persons may be a clue about some unexplained concern. As a way to better understand the reasons for the visit, clinicians are encouraged (with the patient’s permission) to engage the accompanying person(s) in a discussion of their input into the visit.

    Reluctance to Accept Recommendations

    At times patients are hesitant to accept diagnostic or treatment suggestions

    The patient’s reluctance may have derived from unstated beliefs about causation or expected treatments that were never addressed. Such reluctance can lead to feelings of defensiveness or frustration on the part of the physician. Active listening is a helpful step to reaching common ground on a treatment plan.

    It remains to be determined how easy or difficult it is for clinicians to learn to identify and respond to clues. Stewart et al have documented the ability of residents to learn to identify repeats or prompts. Over the past several years, the categories of clues described herein have become part of our teaching of active listening in the patient-centered interview. We have demonstrated these clues on trigger tapes to audiences of students, residents, and practicing physicians and created standardized patient experiences with scenarios designed to challenge active listening skills. Through this process, we have witnessed an impressive improvement in active listening skills in follow-up interviews with real and standardized patients.

  214. Hi Anonymous, I believe so strongly in your post with the great hyperlinks….

    can you tell me, which is the the most guilty? IBM or Bell> the whole Lucent thing, AND ANONYMOUS, how long can the CDC keep on lying?

    And Anonymous, do you read Sabrina’s strand the Fiber Disease on Biology-online? I ask because you gys mannerisms reming me of each other, some girl named Lynne too.

    Hey, also anonymous, who is ther guiltiest between the NIH and the NATIONAL SCIENCE FOUNDATION? I’m sure you are very aware of their crappy lil WOLBACHIA GENOME, OR YOU NOT….

    THANKS aGAIN FOR THOSE GREAT HYPERLINKS….hERE IS SOME MORE FOR YOU….

    http://www.lbl.gov/msd/PIs/Walukiewicz/02/02_8_Full_Solar_Spectrum.html

    lONDON

  215. AND aNONYMOUS, i MEANT TO LEAVE YOU AND tHE ‘G’ POSTER THIS ONE HYPERLINK TOO,……..

    SOMEONE’S LOVER SPILLED THE BEANS i DO BELIEVE…..SHE EVEN USES ONE OF HER INTERNET (EMAIL NAMES) WITH THE DAMN CO’S NAME AS A HANDLE…..

    uS mORGIES MIGHT BE DELUSIONAL,, BUT AT LEAST WE’RE NOT A BUCH OF DUMBASSES! i MEAN C’MON, WHO THE HELL WOULD DO THAT?

    aNSWER: A DUMBASS (AND I’M NOT REFERRING TO “G” or anonymous , just his lil lover girl…..

    enjoy the LED lighting info….

    http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/MSD-perfect-solar-cell-2.html

  216. London, maybe you could explain what solar/photovoltic cells have to do with anything before you post any more random links?

    Solar cells are flat bits of material that produce electricity when the sun shines on them. What has that to do with a proposed new disease that makes fibers and lesions?

  217. I am responding to the piece that ABC aired about Morgellan’s Disease because I suffered from this condition for approximately 2 years, and I have been clear now for about 4 years. I simply am interested in helping anyone who is suffering from this condition because I am completely aware of how terrible it is. The following are things that I think and/or believe about this condition and things that I KNOW about this condition:

    Things that I believe about this condition:

    I was finally cured when I took Diflucan for 5 to 10 days (normally is taken only one day for vaginal yeast infections), and I STRONGLY believe that it is fungal in origin. One reason that I believe in the fungal origin is that the itching becomes much more intense at night as do fungal infections.

    I also believe that I became infected with this condition through contact with clothes that were saturated with dog feces and urine. I picked up these articles of clothing and draped them over my left arm and held them against my stomach to take them to the laundry room to wash, and that’s where the condition started on my body, and it spread all over from there.

    Things that I KNOW about this condition:

    This is NOT PARASITOSIS!!! This diagnosis was the most devastating part of the entire ordeal for me. It is so frustrating to have your family doctor or dermatologist give you such a diagnosis when you know that it is not psychological.

    There are black fibers that feel like they are moving around on your body because they are! I was able to catch some of the fibers moving about with clear tape and view them with a magnifying glass or microscope.

    The condition is definitely contagious or communicable through touch and/or use of the person’s bedding or clothing. It is imperative that if the sufferer uses the Diflucan that he/she washes the bedding and clothing and upholstery with hot water and a hot dryer.

    This condition is absolutely straight out of the pit of hell, and I would encourage research, compassion and understanding for anyone dealing with it.

    My only reason for contacting this address is to help anyone I may.

    C. Wilkin

  218. Cathy, thanks for sharing your story. Why do you think this is “Morgellons”, and not a regular fungal infection?

  219. Do regular fungal infections do this to the skin?

    Do fungal infections create fibers, grit, bits of whatever that shouldn’t be there?

    Known of these things have worked for me.

    I have had this a long time, I too thought all symptoms gone, skin came good, IT came back, now with neuro involvement, but was that the psych. meds? I DO KNOW – THAT IS WHY I CONTINUE TO DO THIS FRIGGIN BULL SHIT!

    So please answer my questions.

    Cathy – I thank you so much for sharing, and I am pleased you are in recovery or remission or whatever. BUT readers has this just moved into dormancy in Cathy, or has it moved else where? OR is she over this. ME AND HER ARE TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE – but we described the same thing.

    Yes – THE ITCH AT NIGHT! Me and the were only trying to figure that out the other night. The back scrather sits at the side of the bed, coz ya gotta reach ya back some how.

    If you aren’t prepared to take your damn blinkers off and take a simple look with the assistance of the medical community, and universities and all the good people who have spilled out their heart and sole on this site and all the other sites – what are we left to do? Just keep talking about it…what a complete waste of time. If the CDC aren’t going to look into CFS you said Michael until about 2010 well I guess I should quit now hey??

    Put your money where your mouth is – but I say that in a nice way – because I ain’t got no money to put forward! BUT I do have lots of fibers and STUFF.

    And don’t hit me witb more links to cross sexed insects on cocaine, I don’t give a (*&^)#%$ what the hell it is – I just want it looked into because basic human rights here please, thank you very and kiss my bum. This is not the 18th century. By the way did they snort cocaine back then?

  220. Sarah, the CDC IS looking into it.

    The CDC has been looking in CFS for quite some time:
    http://www.cdc.gov/cfs/

    I think you were referring to my spoof CDC paper on Morgellons – which was basically suggesting that Morgellons might be defined as a type of CFS – a disease that is difficult to define, and that has no diagnostic biomarkers.

    http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/07/12/cdc-paper-on-morgellons/

    Of course, that needs to be combined with the “It’s the fibers, stupid!” post:
    http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/07/25/its-the-fibers-stupid/

    (The “stupid” here does not mean anyone is stupid, it’s American vernacular)

    Cocaine was not introduced to the western world until the 19th century, funny stuff:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine#Popularization

  221. What is American vernacular?

  222. Oh. I just dropped in here and haven’t read anything. Excuse me if I’m interupting. I’ve had you on my mind Sarach. This is going to seem like a weird thing to be asking, but I’m gonna, anyway. When you elevate your arms, do you notice anything odd looking about your veins? Thanks.

  223. JeezeLousie explained it best:

    http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/07/25/its-the-fibers-stupid/#comment-2548

    JeeezeLouise Says:
    July 25th, 2006 at 10:07 pm e

    Quoting Michael:

    This usage was popularized by Bill Clinton in 1992 with his famous “It’s the economy, stupid!” slogan

    Just to expand on that …

    George H. Bush was stumping on everything BUT the economy, in one so-called Town Hall meetings, when he was directly asked by a woman in the audience about the poor people in this country, he replied (paraphrased) “I don’t understand the question.”

    That was when Clinton started using the “It’s the economy, stupid!” slogan.

    It has since become part of the American vernacular, meaning “Let’s focus on what matters”.

    In that context, which was how Michael intended it to be taken, it is perfectly applicable here.

  224. Well thankw Jeezelouise. I am that tired it has just gone in one ear and out the other, but it has computed enough for me to understand.

    Smiley – I love your use of the english language, you really are good at bringing your blogging to life.

    Please ask away – what odd thing do I need to look for on my arms under my arms and my veins please? Coz I am finishing up very soon, I have to get some sleep and put this crap down (the current debate,debunk deshit of Morgies).

  225. I also meant to say – I need some sort of closure, to move on and help me in my recovery, I know I ain’t goona get it all in one night or afternoon, but I am working towards CLOSURE for me, coz I can not change the world, I am certainly not trying to create hysteria either just sharing info to through around like everyone else. Because if I was to sit back and moan about it, that is not constructive, I am being active and constructive for ME – NO ONE ELSE. Even Sally (my cat) is sick of mum slaving to the computer. And the people who created the name, the foundation, and pressed my buttons and spoon fed me pooh along the way and still have not explained WHY – deserve to be accountability and take responsibility and or punishment for their actions. When they do all of that I WILL shut my mouth for good. No one likes to be used, especially when they don’t feel well.

  226. Hey Sarach. Thank you for the kind words. I think about you often, and had been missing you around here. I only wondered whether, upon elevating your arms, you know, like just raising your forearms, bent at the elbow, if there were any visible changes in your forearms. Nothing that you would have to look hard to see. I’m just curious. That’s just me, for ya.

  227. Yes I have noticed my forearms are looking much beter, the skin texture, and they are slimming back to the normal shape, I do hope this is a good sign, for me it indicates the infection going from my skin, my observation. Still a bit thickened, more heavy up top but that could be the steroid I guess, I can clearly see my blue veins, look normal as can be expected, a little bit of puritic rash on left and right wrist, but the calamine does work a treat. Please let me know if this okay. I read the end paragraph of your blog, I would like to go back out the way I came you – but still wouldn’t mind an explanation why she did it in the first place?? Doesn’t add up.

  228. Thanks for checking. Yes, things sound good, if you’re seeing improvement. I hope you continue to improve too!

  229. I must say that reading the posts on this website has been interesting, educational and at times frustrating.

    A little background: I am a 39 year old white male who has always been in excellent physical health. For the last two years I’ve been dealing with a bizarre assortment of “ailments” for lack of a better term: adult onset narcolepsy that lasted for just three months, bleeding sores opening up on all parts of my body that come and go in waves, sudden deterioration in my depth-of-field vision, dark specks appearing under my skin and eventually popping much like a pimple,short term memory loss, hair falling out literally in clumps, and yes, the infamous fibers coming out of my skin.

    Also relevant: I have been in treatment by the same psychiatrist for clinical depression for over a decade. I am on a strict medicinal regime for the depression which I do not deviate from. I have never been diagnosed as having OCD,having psychotic features of depression,or exhibiting paranoia. I, quite simply, have clinical depression that significantly predates any of the other “ailments”, and that my psychiatrist is largely able to manage by carefully monitoring my meds. It’s not something that is anyone’s fault. It’s not something that I caught from someone. It’s not part of some government conspiracy. It’s a biological problem and a fact of my life. I deal with it, and get on with my life.

    Then there’s all of this other mess that’s been going on for the last two years. (My psychiatrist, btw, was the one who linked this collection of “ailments” into one chain and told me that she had been reading of similiar cases reported by doctors in medical literature.) I haven’t been out doctor shopping for someone to put a name to this. My psychiatrist has referred me to relevant specialists for the various symptoms, and they consult with her on any medications prescribed. When you’re taking antidepressants or any kind of “brain drug” my personal belief is that it’s best to have one doctor making the final call on any medication that you take.

    Do I have Morgellons Disease/Syndrome? I don’t think that I can be diagnosed with an illness that hasn’t been proven to exist yet. Does it matter to me that there isn’t a name for what I’ve been dealing with? No. I don’t need a name to know that what’s happening with my body is real. I know that sometimes it hurts, that the sores and filamentous can be embarrassing sometimes in public, that the neurological aspects have been, quite frankly, a pain in the ass.

    I do think that there are other people out there who are also dealing with a bundle of seemingly random “ailments”. I do not know what triggered it in me, or in anyone else, or if it’s even the same between any two people. I agree with the people who have posted here saying that they want to see more tangible proof about what’s going on. If objective research isn’t done then there’s no hope of an accurrate diagnostic criteria being developed and treatment regime being discovered. Some people will be resistant to that idea because it creates the chance that they or someone they know will not meet the diagnosis for the illness/disease/syndrome. I guess that I don’t really grasp the need some have of defining their life through an illness.

    I do hope that anyone on this list who is suffering or in pain finds relief, and does so in a medically responsible way to avoid making things worse for themselves in the future. And I hope that all of us can continue to receive more information that is relevant and accurrate, instead of pro or anti propaganda.

  230. RobertW, thank you for sharing your story, you presented it in a very intelligent manner. I admire your attitude regarding your health problems, and I think others would do well to heed what you are saying.

  231. Robert W., your experience is insightful. I appreciated and empathized with the struggles you’re having with depression and the symptoms you described. I look forward to reading more from you.

  232. Robert W.,

    Thank you for sharing your story with us. Can you tell me whether or not you have been exposed to any chemicals, outside the ordinary?

    Tall Cotton

  233. i wonder how many of the people reporting to have morgellons symptoms are under the regular care of a psychiatrist? some of those referred to one do go and are often referred by them back to medical doctors because the psychiatrist finds no mental problems. robert and the guy on abc, dr gregory smith md, are the only ones i know; both for a long time prior to the onset of morgellons symptoms. people who are under psychiatric care get infectious diseases and/or toxic also.

  234. It varies by individual, but if someone were suffering from monosymptomatic hypochondriacal psychosis, then it’s quite normal for the psychiatrist to find no mental problems:

    http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2004/05/08/70309.php

    “In many cases, (delusional parasitosis) is a mono-delusional problem,” Lynch said. “The patients are normal in every other way. It’s always hard to get such patients to believe it’s a psychological problem. Some patients are very convincing, and I’ve had psychiatrists call me about referrals I’ve made and ask if I’m absolutely sure there’s nothing organic going on here.”

  235. Texastar – I was also under a psychiatrist. Diagnosed with BDD sometime back, I hadn’t noticed any fibers, I had bad lesions, and other symptoms, fatigue etc.

    Your comment about “People who are under psychiatric care get infectious diseases/and or toxic” SO TRUE. You know what made me so mad through out my journey – I kept telling the doc I had been exposed to CO/toxic fumes (blocked flue on gas wall heater) in low doses for 2 YEARS and that was when things went crazy in me. Strange thing is no one really listened to that, or even commented.

    Only ONE doctor wrote to my shrink and said to me he had mentioned in the letter that I be sent to a mucus membrane specialist. BUT that never happened. My shrink just told me and my family that I have a physical illness and it was NOT his job to deal with that. He would not even suggest a doctor, a referral, nothing. So it was ME who then looked desperate, obsessive and neurotic looking for a doctor to “look” and “listen”.

    I feel some of those people in high places need to take a good look at themselves. We are all HUMAN BEINGS you know!!

    It is this part of the Hypocractic Oath that I like!!

    “If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.”

  236. I have had a very varied career – worked with the elderly and the severely disabled/handicaped. Do you know that it was always pressed upon us “duty of care” towards the patient.

    I am always reminded of this – because I feel all DOCTORS have a duty of care.

  237. Michael – Good comment. BUT a shrink also needs to be HONEST. I was put on Seroquel was told it was because it worked well with Lexapro. My shrink said to me “I never once said you were delusional”.

    There is one thing to “think it” and one thing to “say it to the patient”. Just proves to me that some people LISTEN but they just don’t HEAR.

  238. Hi, Robert. I’m sorry for the problems you’ve been having, and I wish you well, and thank you for sharing with us. I agree with you. Some people, do, sadly, have a need of defining their life through illness. Many, without meaning to, or even knowing that they are, it seems. Ill health, as well as lots of devastating events, can cause quite an upheaval in a person’s life. Not all people are equipped to cope with it, treat it, or to realize that many things often have to be accepted. Life-altering conditions, very often, have nobody to blame, and there’s just simply no going back to the way things used to be. It is a process that many people have no choice other than to work through. People have to have direction, and a planned course of action, if they truly want to improve. Not false direction, either, and not a plan for somebody else, which is nothing more than a trap. Not treating the conditions that some people have, and, instead,looking for a new, rather science-fiction-like one, to explain what they think is happening to them, has different, other, reasons behind it, too. That’s what has brought people believing in “morgellons disease” together. They need not look-outside-of-the-box to seek the answers for their individual health problems. It’s very sad, and, assurdedly, keeping it going for them, unfortunately, and it’s obvious that it can’t be controlled.

    Anyway, I’m assuming that since you’ve said that your psychiatrist has referred you to the appropriate specialists, for the various symptoms you have, that you are going to be seeing an optometrist, soon, also. One doesn’t need a referrral for that, though, or for some other types of doctors. I’m just adding that, for anybody else who may not know. You are fortunate to have a very good doctor, who’s working with you. Of course, you sound as though you’re a very savvy patient, which is key. I wish morgie people could get on track and do the same. I agree, with your having said that it’s your personal belief that it’s best to have one doctor making the final call on any medications, for anybody treating with any kind of “brain drug”. I’d like to add, that we always need to make certain that all doctors that we see are aware of all medications we take, including any over-the-counter medications, and vitamin, mineral, and herbal supplements. Prescription medications can interact with non-prescriptions. We need to be aware of, and always report to our doctors, any troubling side effects and/or possible symptoms of interactions.

    By your mentioning “deterioration in your depth-of-field vision”, it sounds as though you may be referring to the development of farsightedness. I don’t know exactly what you mean, but I’d like to mention something about that, in case it could help someone else.

    Anytime we have changes in our vision, it means we need an appointment with an optometrist.
    Farsightedness, or hyperopia, as it is medically termed, is a vision condition in which distant objects are usually seen clearly, but close ones do not come into proper focus. Farsightedness occurs if your eyeball is too short or the cornea has too little curvature, so light entering your eye is not focused correctly. Common signs of farsightedness include difficulty in concentrating and maintaining a clear focus on near objects, eyestrain, fatigue and/or headaches after close work, aching or burning eyes, irritability or nervousness after sustained concentration. A comprehensive optometric examination will include testing for farsightedness. In mild cases of farsightedness, your eyes may be able to compensate without corrective lenses. In other cases, your optometrist can prescribe eyeglasses or contact lenses to optically correct farsightedness by altering the way the light enters your eyes.

    I used to try to understand what morgies were referring to as “floaters”. I mean, I know what floaters are, but in the ways they were speaking of them, and not explaining what they meant by it, I had to assume it was their own lingo, similar to how some of them have chosen to adopt Cliff Mickelson’s “callus”, in place of callng a scab, a scab. Then, one day, I read an account of one morgie person having described walking into a sunlit room, and upon seeing dust particles in the air (which is totally normal), she was terrified, and referred to them as “floaters”.

    Spots (often called floaters) are small, semi-transparent or cloudy specks or particles within the vitreous, the clear, jelly-like fluid that fills the inside of your eyes. They appear as specks of various shapes and sizes, threadlike strands or cobwebs. Since they are within your eyes, they move as your eyes move and seem to dart away when you try to look at them directly.  Spots are often caused by small flecks of protein or other matter trapped during the formation of your eyes before birth. They can also result from deterioration of the vitreous fluid, due to aging; or from certain eye diseases or injuries. Most spots are not harmful and rarely limit vision. But, spots can be indications of more serious problems, and you should see your optometrist for a comprehensive examination when you notice sudden changes or see increases in them. By looking in your eyes with special instruments, your optometrist can examine the health of your eyes and determine if what you are seeing is harmless or the symptoms of a more serious problem that requires treatment.

    Hehe, I had an elderly relative that used to randomly yell out, “There goes that little old man, carrying the pine tree on his shoulder, again!”. Based on his behavior, at the time, I didn’t think he was hallucinating, and upon questioning him, I’d determined he had floaters and took him to the eye doctor.

    Thanks again, Robert, and please continue to contribute here.

  239. Hehe, I had an elderly relative that used to randomly yell out, “There goes that little old man, carrying the pine tree on his shoulder, again!”. Based on his behavior, at the time, I didn’t think he was hallucinating, and upon questioning him, I’d determined he had floaters and took him to the eye doctor.

    Smileykins – That is so gorgeous, don’t you just love the old folk.

    Thanks for the word up on the eyes, I have had floaters since I was a kid. I used to ask my dad what the heck was happening especially when I shut my eyes if lying in the sunshine – I would see these floaters with my lids shut.

    When I feel up to it, I will get my eyes checked. Thank you.

  240. marginal,

    this guy lynch is ahole buddies with dr. koo who put out the dp paper again in the 90′s. both shrinks (koo is also a dermatologist) at uc where some of the biopesticde nematodes were developed that were later recalled. they are not credible because of conflict of interests, trying to cover the university’s a$$ at the expense of public health. they know what they are doing and it is not right. is it hinkle?

  241. Texastar, maybe you could quote someone who disagrees with Lynch?

  242. I hsve no idea who “lynch” or “Koo” or even “hickle” is for that matter, only what I have read here.

    I do feel compelled to share this link with you. It was forwarded to me last month by Charles Holman, he removed from his website when he became more involved with MRF – due to the fact that he thought it was unprofessional for this to be on his website (which I agreed with).

    http://www.cherokeechas.com/morgLafs.htm

  243. By the way – when I was forwarded the above link this comment was also made:

    “I really DO find it interesting that the blogger-dude chose “Michael” as his ‘stage name’….(???)”

    Hurts my head to think about it, BUT maybe someone else can figure it out.

  244. Quote a scientist or doctor who disagrees with Lynch.

  245. For any victims visiting this blog I offer you the words to a song I used to listen to during my darkess hours of suffering. I suggest you listen to the song also. REMEMBER : “GOD” – This is anything YOU want it to be, a higher power, a tree, or even a snail in the garden. Someone to trust, talk to, help you on your journey to recovery.

    Please remember (victims): who YOU are, do not loss sight of that, remember why we all met this way. YOU know what YOU know, probably in many ways just like I do. Sometimes silence can be golden. Use the knowledge and wisdom you have gained from the “Morgellons” experience and turn it into a positive, in other words, DO NOT attempt to use this power to turn against or hurt others. We have all quoted “Karma” in the past, well we must follow through on that – “Do unto others as they do unto you”.

    With that last quote in mind we have to turn the other cheek, if we wish to seek revenge it has to be done in a constructive manner, in other words not “inhumane” or “cruel”, because what WE have ALL endured to date so far as been nothing more than this.

    George Harrison – Give Me Love Peace on Earth

    Lyrics:

    Give me love
    Give me love
    Give me peace on earth
    Give me light
    Give me life
    Keep me free from birth
    Give me hope
    Help me cope, with this heavy load
    Trying to, touch and reach you with,
    heart and soul

    OM M M M M M M M M M M M M M
    M M M My Lord . . .

    PLEASE take hold of my hand, that
    I might understand you

    Won’t you please
    Oh won’t you

    Give me love
    Give me love
    Give me peace on earth
    Give me light
    Give me life
    Keep me free from birth
    Give me hope
    Help me cope, with this heavy load
    Trying to, touch and reach you with,
    heart and soul

    OM M M M M M M M M M M M M M
    M M M My Lord . . .

    PLEASE take hold of my hand, that
    I might understand you

  246. One last thing to the “Victims”

    If you are wondering WHY your pet (ie. cat or dog) is effected by the syndrome called “Morgellons” my opinion please read…..

    “During my dark hours of suffering I listened the the above song, I sobbed on one occasion, my cat Sally was in the room with me, listening to me and music also. She new very well that her mum was sick, very very sick. Her mum thought was she going to die because she certainly looked that way, so very bloated, disfigured – looking nothing like her genetic parents, so on and so on.

    Half way through the song Sally began to meow, but this was not a normal meow, it was like a cry, this particular cry was a distress call. The meow she echoed was heard 6 times, I remember counting them as I looked at her with disbelief, my little girl was hurting for her mum.

    It really was a very emotional time, my friend was in the room with me at the time, witnessed the whole thing, he began to cry also it was really gut wrenching.”

  247. smileykins Says:
    October 17th, 2006 at 7:48 pm
    Norman, I DO have a low education level. I only graduated high school
    hmmmmmm.

  248. THIS IS TRUE STUFF…MY MOTHER SUFFERS FROM THIS STUFF> HELP!!!!

  249. You sound panicked, FlippinLady. Seek immediate assistance from a mental health care facility for your mother, and for yourself.

  250. Flippinlady,

    What kind of symptoms have you observed in your mother? What makes you so sure it’s Morgellons? Have either of you ever had psychiatric treatment, or been prescribed anti-psychotic medications?

    TC

  251. Small & Smelly

    Seek immediate treatment for meth addiction. Your cognative skills are a bit mis-scued.

  252. Flippin,

    Not that I think you’ll be back, but, if you ever are….

    Have you been to a doctor? Have you had a diagnosis? If so, why do you not trust the diagnosis?

    Sarah

  253. Starlink, I would normally expect a person to cite the reasons for their accusations, so we could work through them. But, if you’re up to the challenge, and would like to show that you have grounds for them, it might help sway someone’s opinion into the direction that you know what you’re talking about, for once. So, I suggest taking it to either your blog, or ours, so as not to take up unnecessary space here.

    Have you any good advice to reply back to a panicked, “THIS IS TRUE STUFF…MY MOTHER SUFFERS FROM THIS STUFF> HELP!!!!”, since your mother has what you also believe is “morgellons disease”? I replied the way I did to FlipinLady, for good reason. To me, a short panicky plea for help, and nothing more, required a quick response into the direction of a geniune solution. Not that this is a support forum, and I considered that the large words at the top of the page were not seen by her. When I see cries for help, I generally react to them the way I interpret them. With people who believe in “morgellons disease”, I haven’t noticed anyone trying to help their situations yet.

  254. I was in Walmart and I saw several morgies. I doubt that they realize that they have Morgellons, but I can spot a morgie a block away. Two people had what looked like pimples, but they weren’t. One person was scratching their arm, but there wasn’t anything visible there. That had to be a Morg causing the itch. One lady had blue hair. That’s a dead give away. Also, two kids were picking their butts. That’s a sure sign of Morgellons. I would call them aside and warn them about Morgellons, but they would probably just go into denial.

    TC

  255. Oh, TC. You know, I once read that Walmart is supposed to be one of the worst known places for spreading morgs too, because they sell so much underwear made out of chinese cotton. I’ve read that just walking into a Walmart makes some peoples’ morgies flare up, angry, and start to bite. I’d also read that someone had planned to, or actually did, complain to a Walmart manager about that chinese cotton, too.

  256. Do you like cognAtive skills like that, Starlink? I really did read what I mentioned above, and a whole lot more. Do you have any ideas on what could be happening to cause people to itch?

  257. I have never heard of such idiotic waste of taxpayer’s monies or the great length a mass media company will go to capture viewer ratings. I also would like to see something more than some police department’s use of “excellent equipment” and their collected fiber sample database or their extended search of the FBI fiber sample database to identify this “horrible condition.” I need more than their mind-boggling totally scientific diagnosis “…this is some strange stuff.” Where is the CDC and the REAL scientific community? If this is the new PLAGUE of the Century, why aren’t our best and brightest in the medical scientific community working night and day to prevent this scourge from infecting us all? Why is it attacking only those people with time to kill and no real life or skills to earn a living? It must be associated with the “Social Security Disability Check” disease that seems to rear its ugly head from time to time when the economy slows down and people start fearing lay-offs are looming. Hum . . . points to ponder. Oh, yes, by the way, I think your first fiber might be silk or even an eyelash or even ocean sponge, second, looks like it might be, sorry, no idea.
    Keep up the good fight debunking these wack-o illness, we have way to many real ones to worry about.

  258. Well, among other evidence, Social Security disability claims require proof of ongoing treatment with a doctor. I’ve read quite a few accounts of morgie patients thinking that skin sores, and photographs of the match box sign are appropriate evidence to use in their long awaited hearings, as other believers encourage them along. Some of these patients have very serious conditions that they are seeing doctors for on a regular basis, and they have been successful with their claims. It’s impossible to determine how many others could, and should, be drawing SSD, if they were only able to acknowledge, and treat, whatever mental (or physical) health condition has interferred with their ability to work. I firmly believe that the bulk of “morgellons disease” patients need someone assigned to help them with their various challenges.

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