Aug 08 2006
ABC ‘Morgellons’ Medical Mystery
The “Medical Mysteries” series is proving to be quite a money maker for ABC. The New York Daily News reports:
It’s been a challenging summer for the usually dominant ABC. How tough? Reality offerings have crashed and burned. Few are watching reruns of “Lost,” “Grey’s Anatomy” and “Desperate Housewives.” But things are looking up. ABC News’ “Medical Mysteries” series, which examines bizarre medical conditions, has turned out to be a real crowd- pleaser.
So it’s not surprising that they would continue to promote the series, and as part of this promotion offer up a preview story on their ABC “news” site, right next to the wolfman, the echolocating blind men, and the women who smell like dead fish.
The ABC Story features Morgellons Patients: Brandi Koch, Anne Dill, Greg Smith and also Mary Leitao, the founder of the MRF, and her son, Drew.
Leitao’s part in the story is interesting, since it explains the start of the Morgellons phenomenon:
Armed with research, Leitao took her son to a doctor at one of the country’s leading hospitals. He dismissed her tale of fibers and wrote to her pediatrician, saying that her son needed Vaseline for his lips and that his mother needed a thorough psychiatric evaluation.
well, you would think that the next logical step in the story would be to explain how she found her son’s fibers were not normal, and disproved all the doctors, but no, we get:
Undaunted, Leitao began poring through the medical literature looking for clues. What she discovered was a 17th-century reference to a strange disease with “harsh hairs” called “morgellons.”
A disease where infants have a fever, and then you rub milk on them, hairs spring from their backs, which you pluck, and the fever vanishes. Nothing to do with anything. Why do they keep bringing this up?
What does Mary say about Drew’s fibers:
“What I saw were bundles of fibers, balls of fibers,” Leitao says. “There was red and blue.” Even stranger, they glowed under ultraviolet light.
I have explained red and blue fibers before. I’ve also explained the glowing (although that’s usually white fibers, which Mary also found, just did not mention in this story). I’ve even discussed the fibers emerging from his lip. There is no evidence at all that Drew had anything at all unusual going on.
Now here’s something I’m looking forward to seeing:
Dr. Greg Smith of Gainesville, Ga., has been a pediatrician for the past 28 years. He claims a fiber is coming out of his big toe, and he has video footage to prove it.
Video footage of fibers emerging is something I’ve been suggesting for a while. The fibers are the only really interesting thing about “this disease” for which you might have a chance of getting some evidence.
The rest of the article is similar to other media articles. Anne Dill (who has a very impressive photo gallery) says her husband died of Morgellons, but he was actually diagnosed with ALS. 4500 people are supposed to have contacted Leitao, when all they did was fill in an internet survey. A doctor says that the lesions form when people scratch themselves.But the real news, and what I suspect that MRF were so excited about before they collapsed, is that the Tulsa City police department were unable to identify some fibers collected from a Morgellons Patient by Randy Wymore:
Forensic scientist Ron Pogue at the Tulsa Police Crime Lab in Oklahoma checked a morgellons sample against known fibers in the FBI’s national database. “No, no match at all. So this is some strange stuff,” Pogue says. He thinks the skeptics are wrong. “This isn’t lint. This is not a commercial fiber. It’s not.”
The lab’s director, Mark Boese, says the fibers are “consistent with something that the body may be producing.” He adds, “These fibers cannot be manmade and do not come from a plant. This could be a byproduct of a biological organism.”
What kind of obscure biological organism produces fibers? Bombyx mori? Rodentia Chinchillidae? Ovis aries? Exactly how extensive is this FBI national database, and how do you check a sample against it? Here’s an earlier mention of the involvement of the Tulsa Police:
The fibers, about the size of small eyebrow hairs, are not living organisms, Dr. Wymore decides. He teams with a Tulsa police department crime lab to sort through fiber samples, and though the lab owns a database of more than 800 fibers, these fibers match nothing.
800 fibers does not sound like very many to me. I bet they don’t have this one:
or this one:
I’ve got more. My point is that 800 fibers might cover 90% of the common household fibers found in your average bit of lint, but there’s still probably over 10,000 other uncommon fibers like the above - lots of room for unidentified fibers. (A prize to the first person to correctly identify the above two photos - they are from a QX5 at 60x, so are about 3mm across).
Here’s a natural man-made fiber (the large one on the bottom right):
I KNOW they don’t have that one in their fiber database. Why? I made it myself, simply by firmly rubbing my upper arm with a fingertip after having a hot shower. Some old sun-dried skin sloughed off, and rolled up with natural skin oil and sebum, forming this fiber-like shape. Everyone has these “fibers” from time to time, not everyone really looks at them with a microscope, or asks the police to identify them.
Here’s a much better article on Morgellons, from the Associated Press:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/living/health/15227993.htm
He recruited two Oklahoma State faculty physicians. They tweezed fibers from beneath the skin of some Morgellons patients who visited the Oklahoma State Center for Health Sciences in Tulsa in February, Wymore said, and sent those samples to the Tulsa Police Department’s forensic laboratory.
The police checked the samples against carpet and clothing fibers and other materials, and conducted chemical analyses and other tests. Nothing matched, said Mark Boese, the police lab’s director.
“How it is being produced, I don’t know,” Boese said. He theorized the fibers could be produced by human hair follicles that somehow encapsulated pollutants processed by the body.
I’ve nothing against the Tulsa Police forensic department (although they do seem to be big fans of CSI). But again, all they have said is they cannot identify some fibers, and they don’t think they are man-made or plant fibers. Hopefully more information will be forthcoming, but they have not explained how they have scientifically determined they are “some strange stuff”. What tests were run? What were the results of the tests? The Tulsa police has some nice equipment. Were these tests run with public money? Can we have the results?
Maybe we’ll see more more details on the show. But remember, ABC is here to entertain you, their aim is to build market share. Keep that in mind, when weighing their evidence. Is it possible that there is some less entertaining evidence? How many fibers were looked at? How many of those fibers were simply not entertaining enough?
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Man, you’re an ass. Of course they used their “nice equipment”- but do you REALLY think they’re going to release that information before the show airs? Let me answer this question for you: no they won’t. It shouldn’t have gotten to the point that you have this much info beforehand, because skeptics like you will now view it not with a curious eye, but with a jaded eye because of your damn “cause”. You know, I liked you and appreciated our conversations in the past, but you’re an ass plain and simple. There was just no need to do that. You could have given us a chance so that there could have been intelligent conversations after the show airs, but now it will be jaded by YOU- the hypocrite who has said all along he appreciates good science and intelligent debate. What you did has precluded much chance of that happening.
Forensic scientist Ron Pogue at the Tulsa Police Crime Lab in Oklahoma checked a morgellons sample against known fibers in the FBI’s national database. “No, no match at all. So this is some strange stuff,” Pogue says. He thinks the skeptics are wrong. “This isn’t lint. This is not a commercial fiber. It’s not.”
The lab’s director, Mark Boese, says the fibers are “consistent with something that the body may be producing.” He adds, “These fibers cannot be manmade and do not come from a plant. This could be a byproduct of a biological organism.”
Jace, I’m sorry you feel that way. I was not intending to prejudge the evidence on the show, and I was not expecting them to release info ahead of time. What I was doing was judging the evidence from the promotional story, and expressing interest in the actual evidence on the show.
If the evidence on the show is good, then how is what I have to say going to detract from it? I’m not saying that one should disbelieve everything because it’s ABC, but rather that you consider ALL the evidence, not just that which is formatted to fit a story or a show for the purposes of entertainment.
After the show airs tomorrow, maybe Dr. Wymore and ABC can release the details of the evidence (or maybe there will be enough on the show), and we can discuss that. I’m looking forward to it.
And, I meant “nice equipment” in a good way.
Here’s something that I don’t get …
Why does anyone think that this blog and the opinions posted to it are in any way harming those who believe they have Morgellons?
I really do not understand the venom expressed here, over and over. If Morgellons is a real, emerging disease, then that will be proven regardless of any skeptical opinion expressed on this small blog.
If you are truly ill, WHO CARES what is posted here? Why does everyone want to know who “Michael” is, or who he works for? He’s said time and time again that he’s a retired programmer.
I just don’t get it.
Jace, what is Michael’ “cause”?
Just curious.
Jace, if you don’t have an idea one way or another, yet, you will eventually reach your own conclusions. There really are plenty of people around who really do know what “morgellons disease” is. I’m sorry if I sound arrogant about it, but when I’m positive about something, arrogance is the way I’m perceived as being, by some people. For some, who haven’t gotten to the truth of the matter, for themselves, yet, for whatever is standing in the way of their realizing it, they, quite possibly, never will.
I’m not a skeptic, myself, and never really was, on the topic of “morgellons disease”. I know many people are ill, with combinations of geniune, treatable, conditions, both mental and physical. I’m of a very firm opinion that they all need a capable health advocate to assist them in trying to recover. Realistically, I’m sorrowful that it isn’t likely to occur.
A lot of people who don’t like the thought of there not being a “new disease”, if you’ve noticed, among this group of patients, like to refer to skeptics, or those of us who are certain of the non-existence of “morgellons disease”, as not being able to think outside of the box.
The box is not always the worse of two places to be.
Jace, shouldn’t your beef be with ABC for releasing the info in advance? I can’t see how Michael’s “pre-analysis” of this info could do your “cause” any harm if the evidence on the show is truly that compelling.
I don’t think they have any stronger evidence, or they would have used it to hook viewers for tommorrow night. Morgies are always looking for someone to point a finger at, and to blame for all their problems.
“Blame”. Now that is a word that is literally worn out in the morgie community. When we’re ill, injured, diseased, and disabled, we don’t happen to always have blame to place anywhere. It’s quite often nobody’s “fault”, but they sure think that what they have is. There is blame to put all over the place, within this group of people, if you listen to them.
I imagine they will have some inconclusive spectographic analysis, like the old “strong sulfur signal”. But I’ll just wait and see.
Michael said:
After the show airs tomorrow, maybe Dr. Wymore and ABC can release the details of the evidence (or maybe there will be enough on the show)
_______________________________________
Oh Lord I hope so! I gave him some of my links….(not that he needed them at all) but, like everyone else does, I did. I am aware of the fact that it has to be tested and results back before it can be spoke of, but I think enough time has passed (and I’m hoping I am right) so that we will get some type of detail of the evidence tomorrow night.
Smiley and TC, I’m coming over to watch it with you all.
London
Michael, I apologize for calling you an ass. You’re right, it’s totally not your fault that ABC did an early release. I was very harsh, and I apologize. And for all you people that try to make me “dis”believe Morgellons disease, I am NOT a morgie, never have been, don’t think I will ever be and I don’t know one in person. Hopefully once the show aires a decent conversation will follow, but I don’t think it will. In my opinion the non-believers will never believe until research has determined exactly what causes this syndrome. I don’t think that will be discovered any time soon. So, you will all continue to say “this isn’t real”. And that’s fine, I’m not “spewing venom” and I don’t have an agenda. I think it’s great that people are skeptical- skepticsm implies a possibility of belief. I don’t think it’s great that there are people here who have no knowledge of medicine or even advanced biology that are saying based on THEIR personal experiences that this is not a true disease. HOW do you know that? You can’t possibly. This is also true for the morgies, but they have people researching FOR them. They are relying on science, some of you are relying on a couple people’s personal experiences. That’s like saying “oh look the sky is green today, and then someone jumps on that idea with you and says “oh look the sky is green” But all along everyone else knew it was blue as always. And FYI next time I say anything on this board, remember please that I’m NOT a morgie and I do NOT believe in this disease because I’ve read about it on the internet.
While a cause for “this” syndrome would be excellent, what I’d really like is some evidence that there is a syndrome in the first place. Some statistics. Any statistics.
I am looking forward to this program tonight and hope that it gives both sides a chance to give evidence for this syndrome. I have watched other shows on morgellons from local news channels and feel that one thing that is consitent is that psychology/psychiatry is pseudo science and that have a diagnose of DOP means you are crazy. I don’t beleive in Morgellons but do have an open mind and will reserve my final opionions when the CDC is done with their study. In the meantime I think this is a combo of a skin disease, delusions, and obsessive compulsive disorder. Especially when I see all the time some people put so much effort into finding these “fibers.” But like I said, I have an open mind and will wait for the CDC’s results. Until then I look forward to tonights special and like Margollens preview.
Here’s an example of the kind of statistics I’m thinking of:
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/mmwr/mmwr05jun81.pdf
Five patients with similar unusual symptoms. That should be enough to get things moving at the CDC. Read the final paragraph:
Could such a suggestion be written regarding the Morgellons fibers?
Jace, what exactly do you think is being claimed regarding Morgellons fibers? Simply that “something is going on”? Can this be phrased more scientifically?
Michael,
I bet those people with the pneumonia also had full blown Aids, yeah?
911 says:
“…[I] feel that one thing that is consitent is that psychology/psychiatry is pseudo science and that have a diagnose of DOP means you are crazy.”
911 says further:
“In the meantime I think this is a combo of a skin disease, delusions, and obsessive compulsive disorder.”
If psychology/psychiatry are a “pseudo sciences” then why do you refer to delusions and obsessive compulsive disorder as possible causes of “morgellons?” Aren’t these psychiatric diagnoses, and if not, what are they?
Also, do you have any personal experience with psychiatry or psychology that enables you to label them as “pseudo sciences?” If you do then you probably understand that the therapeutic process can be scary and emotionally painful–often it feels like it’s easier to dismiss psychiatry/psychology as junk rather than to do the work it takes to get well–have you personally had a bad experience with it or do you have specific knowledge about these fields that qualify you to refer to them as “pseudo sciences?” I have heard them referred to as this before (most notably by Tom Cruise on the Today Show) and since I’m not sure what this means I’d appreciate it if you could elaborate.
I realize that Michael says he is not a doctor, nor does he suffer from “morgellons symptoms” so the same question might be addressed to him with regards to “morgellons disease,” however he does a pretty good job of supporting his statements with references and research so I’ll refrain. I could also address these questions to other non-medical professonals (like Michael) who post on this blog but I am specifically interested in the so-called psychological component of “morgellons” so that’s why I am addressing them to you.
Thanks in advance!
MHKS,
Sorry, I meant while typing that to say that the news channels reports treated psychology/psychiatry as a psuedu science and not a true science. I myself have a bachlors in psychology and fully beleive in it. My bad on the misunderstanding. Cheers.
911
Thanks, 911. After re-reading your post I see what you meant.
Just been to the ABC Primetime website to checkout the Medical Mystery show. Have any of you guys seen the Morgellons piece yet. All I saw was a 2 min thing with Brandi Koch. Is there going to be more?
It is really confusing with the time zone - we are currently Thurs 10th Aug, 7.41am.
Thanks SarahC
It’s Wednesday 2:53PM here, the show is on at 9 or 10 PM tonight.
Michael - Thank you.
I just checked the posts under the last heading.
I had no idea cliff put my letter on the internet. Anyway as I have said before - nothing to hide.
As for the Mary Leitao thread - well I can’t even get into Lymebusters and I don’t even want to. I have no idea what is going on with Mary Leitao - I would like to think she has not betrayed innocent people and taken their money, but I hope the lawyers can sort it out.
My only intentions at this point in my life is to concentrate on my unknown illness. The media in Australia are finally starting to wake up to this and this is a good thing for me. My main objective for this - my personal story from suffering this syndrome. Then hopefully if the OSU can hook up with a Uni here in Melbourne and conduct a clinical trial I would be over the moon. When all is said and done that is really my only last hope.
Sarah, while I have yet to be convinced that Morgellon’s is truly a new and unique syndrome, I do hope that you find answers and relief.
kindest regards
Following from what JeezeLouise said, the facts that we disagree on if there is a novel infectious disease, how many people have it, and if the fibers are involved, does not negate the fact that individuals like Sarah are suffering, and I too hope they get answers and relief, whatever is wrong with them.
I would love to be able to convince you - just have no idea how - especially with me being in Australia. Anyone who spends a day with me soon sees the nightmare unfold. So very hard for the people around me to. They are all so helpless. I really do understand the flip side for people not suffering this - I would definitely NOT believe it myself. Facts are - I had blue stuff and long hair like fibers coming from unbroken skin, and what I thought was MY hair growing into the skin of my forehead and cheeks, - LONG before I found the Morgellons Website. Sometimes I wish I had never found the website. I have always said what you don’t know won’t hurt you, but these days I can’t get away from it, the evidence is just too overwhelming.
Michael… the best thing that could happen to you would be if you contracted this disease… that is why i donate blood… in hopes that you and people like you will get this… you clearly are a piece of shit with an agenda… of course that probably won’t happen as you are more than likely a paid spook who has been immunized…
abc can do what they want (they usually do)… your thin analysis of their medical mystery coverage is at best another one of your sway techniques… abc and the other networks’ jobs are to market and sensationalize everything… they are very good at pulling their own chains… that is nothing new, but it is just that you are making a deal of it on the subject of morgellons… real fucking weak you fucking puke…
a new website might be coming your way which may discuss tips and tricks on how to spread this disease… morgellons is real and it is here and it is there… and, it will be coming to a public space near you… the more the merrier fucker!
and the national fbi database in which comparisons with fibers were made contained around 200,000 samples… get your fucking facts straight jr.
result: no matches with morgellons fibers
Okay, Jace. You believe that the vast majority of our physicians don’t practice good medicine, and that they were all way off base with their diagnoses of this set of people. You see noting peculiar in the behavior of such patients, nothing odd that they’ve all expected doctors to do unrealistic testing for them, outside of the realm of reason. You see nothing the matter with patient non-compliance, or going to as many as 10-40 different physicians, trying to get something other than the same, inevitable diagnosis. Their beliefs, behaviors, and their practices, that are open for public scrutiny, even being displayed within this forum, don’t give you any clue to the situation, or any insight. In fact, none of this does, but yet, you claim not to “be a morgie”. I can buy that, but I’m afraid you may appear to be susceptible to falling for just about anything, though, with such a lack of discernment.
Weird. I donate blood hoping that the child with cancer or the grandma in heart surgery might wake up tomorrow healthier and stronger.
Polluting the blood supply is evil.
200,000 samples? Where did you hear that? In 2004 the FBI had a database of 1,800 samples, and it took the URI two years, a team of graduate students and $134,000 to create it. And that only covered commercially produced fibers, and the dyes they had at the department.
http://www.uri.edu/news/releases/?id=2713
I missed calling this to your attention, Jace, since you were referencing Tall Cotton & me.
You sound like you have some geniune cognitive dysfunction, so I understand where you’re coming from, but you’re being quite irrational in thinking this way. Quite irrational.
Whatever it is Jace - you have certainly confused me with your last post.
If you are not a “Morgie” and you “Don’t Believe” - what are you trying to say?
By the way - I don’t have anyone personally researching this for me and I am in Australia not USA.
Michael - Did you receive the email I sent you?
Thanks SarahC
Received and replied.
Jace DOES believe in Morgellons, just not because of what she’s read on the internet, or from Morgies she has met. She believes for some other reason.
Abac68, hi. I hope you’re doing all right today. I think Jace might mean that the internet didn’t influence their believing anything about “morgellons disease”, but that something else has. I believe that working in an ER, did, unless my memory fails me at the moment.
Dermatologists take note:
http://www.dermatologytimes.com/dermatologytimes/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=361063
Thank you for sharing that dermatology article, Michael. I agree with that last statement, and I believe that both things could have been accomplished by each patient, rather than their non-compliance, “if it could have been”. Very sad.
Oh Smiley, aren’t you cute? I’ve almost finished my master’s in biomedical science. Irrational? No I’m PAID to research this disease whether there is one or not. The outcome is the same to me either way. I believe in this disease because of what I’ve experienced and seen with my own eyes. So, excuse me, but what is your experience and education?
Jace, Smileykins was critiquing your reasoning and logic, not your education or employment.
I wish that someone could help people with this.My mom has been suffering with this for at least a year now. At first everyone was saying it was all in her head. Now im even more scared about what is going to happen. We need to find out what is going on.
So how many of you on here have this?????
Christina - I have it.
I watched the ABC report and didn’t have any real conclusive feelings in either direction. The video of the fiber in the Georgia doctor’s toe was far from impressive- there was nothing showing it growing out of his toe. OTOH, it does appear that a fiber of some sort was growing out of the little boy’s mouth. But it didn’t look much different from a hair and wasnt anything like the blue and red fibers I’ve seen in certain photos.
Also, I think it’s fair to say that none of these people *looked* like they were really physically sick. Especially the children of the parents who claim to have it- the just looked like normal kids and seemed happy. And we just have to take the word of the wife of the major league pitcher that her husband has fibers, and his symptoms seem much different than hers from her description.
So anyway, I’m still in the undecided but skeptical category, and I don’t think this ABC report is much of a milestone in either direction. The least ABC could have done is paid for their own independent testing of the fibers - what is their chemical composition?
I am blown away by what I have seen about this! The reason ism that Im have been going through som many mdeical tests that I cant list them all. They thought that I had ALS, but wasnt dyhing fast enuff. I have tom go for another MRI tomorrow. But, what got me was the connections made to the symptoms the people were having I have! But what got me was the fibers growing from their bodies. I have a fiber growing from my finger and have never heard of anyone else with this. People I have shown the fibers I remove dont beklieve me when I tel them it will grow back get as long as it will till I remove it. I was told by my doctors that I was special when they couldnt tell me my reason for going through what I am. But I would have never have made the connection of the fibers with my codition. THANK FOR AIRING THIS STORY. I will be having my doctors look into this. Its been too many years have I wondered, hope I now am going in the right direction.
Okay, well I don’t know what the problem with my reasoning and logic is. And Smiley, I do apologize- I’ve got a problem with controlling my mouth lately. I don’t appreciate your statement “You sound like you have some geniune cognitive dysfunction, so I understand where you’re coming from, but you’re being quite irrational in thinking this way. Quite irrational” THAT is why I defended my employment and education. I am NOT irrational Logic and symantics really isn’t my thing- I’m a hard science gal, so I’m sorry if you think my statements don’t make sense. Now I do have to say that I’m very disappointed in the show. I suppose since we have to have repeatable results the better evidence didn’t make it to the show. Oh well the debate continues on. I will probably not have anything further to contribute. I continue to believe, but since I can’t give out any further information, I’ll stay away until I have something to comment on.
You “didn’t appreciate” my statement. Well, then, I suggest that you use some foresight in judgement before trespassing, if the consequences of your actions are going to bring something you don’t appreciate.
I wonder if this could account for my husband’s and my symptoms over the past few years. I noticed strange hairlike fibers on his torso and would spend spend hours with tweezers removing them because he complained that they itched. I just thought it was clogged pores because the work he does brings him home covered in dirt from head to toe. He and I both have suffered from worsening fatigue over the years and I have noticed the same fibers on my torso within the last year. I would get an occasionally itch in my scalp, but just chalked it up hormone changes producing more/less oils. I am a person of above average intelligence, but lately have been increasingly more forgetful and often have difficulty concentrating.
Juanita, your husband should see a dermatologist.
Everyone has an itchy scalp sometimes.
Trespassing? Really? I was under the impression that this is an open forum. And, truly I don’t give a crap what you think of me. Hell no I didn’t appreciate your assault on my intelligence. But in the grand scheme of things do I care at all? Nope.
So Michael, am I trespassing? I guess I’ll just email you, but I don’t know how you can trespass on a completely open forum.
And you know what? The people who get the most defensive are the ones who think they might be wrong. I’m not one of them.
All are welcome here. Although I do appreciate it when people try to be polite.
Erm, Jace, you have sounded a little defensive from time to time, see comment #1.
But feel free to either post or email, I’d be happy to hear what you think the missing unrepeatable evidence was.
Well Michael, I could be wrong.(I assume that’s what you meant by the defensive comment) you always call me out- I find that quite amusing, can’t get much past ya can I? I’ve admitted that all along. And truly I don’t know what the heck has caused me to be so negative. I’m not. Have I been impolite? Or should I say any less polite than some people have been to me? I will check tomorrow and see if I’m allowed to give out any of the newer information. SO MUCH was cut from that show that I feel would have given you the evidence you ask for. I’ll check and make sure I can discuss it and maybe come back tomorrow. Michael-even though I called you an ass, you’re a nice ass, and I will work on my politeness.
I’m having trouble following–who here believes and who doesn’t?
Well crap. I’m not making sense. I’m sorry. Yes people who could be wrong are defensive, people who want to believe something they have spend 100s of hours working on is a true new syndrome, disease, whatever you want to call it. I’m defensive, Smiley’s defensive- not a good combo. So Smiley- I know you truly care about these people as do I, but we are definitely not be on the same end of the spectrum on our belief about morgellons, but we do have the patients best interest at heart. I just want to see them better, no matter who is “right” or “wrong” Going to bed now, far too much stimulation today. My brain is on complete overload.
Juanita I do believe in morgellons, but I am not one myself, nor do I know any. I believe based on research that has yet to be released.
Christina, make sure you go to a doctor with your mom, and try to gently persuade her into following the doctor’s diagnosis and advice. Otherwise, you have a real serious situation on your hands, that will continue to worsen as time goes on. I know it has to be a devasting thing to witness, and there should be support groups for family members, but your mom needs you, or someone that she trusts, to go to the doctor with her. Don’t rely on her going by herself and being able to deal with the outcome, alone, please. That is the best advice I have to offer you.
Juanita, I do not believe nor disbelieve.
I have yet to see anything that convinces me there is a new and unique medical syndrome, that might be called Morgellons.
On the other hand, I do believe that all of the people who describe themselves as Morgellons sufferers are truly very ill and in need of treatment.
Those people need answers and relief, and convincing me that Morgellons is real is irrelevant to that.
If Jace is saying that she is being paid to determine whether or not Morgellons is a real disease, I think she’s lying. If I misread what she said, then I apologize.
It seems to me that she is exhibiting typical Morgie behavior, pretending she has information that she doesn’t have. She comes in here screaming “asshole” and now she expects to be treated like nothing ever happened. She’s nuts.
One thing is certain, she’ll never prove that Morgellons is a disease, because it isn’t. She should also be careful not to underestimate Smileykin’s medical knowledge.
I have it, the ABC story was very depressing, after you have seen four doctors and two dermatologist for your fake illness, you look for hope everywhere you can. All the people have no reason to make up the same symptoms. If this is a common skin ailment what is the cure?
They don’t have the same symptoms:
http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/05/09/we-all-have-the-same-symptoms/
http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/05/17/morgellons-theories-are-varied/
As far as an actual disease process which causes neurological symptoms, I really doubt. Fibers of some type being produced by the human body as an overproduction of sebum/hair/dirt matter most likely. The other “neurological” symptoms could easily be the result of poor diet, lack of exercise increases is stress–most people do not take care of themselves like they should. My self and my husband included.
Jace, I guess all one has to do, really, to “be a morgie”, is “to believe”. I’m sorry you even misinterpretted my usage of the word, “trespassing”. In the below comments, you “trespassed on me”, and I don’t agree with the violation you made, in saying such things, concerning what your perception is on the matter:
I respectively disagree w/ the guys that are having a problem w/ this concept. Can you produce a moving fibre from your skin?? My personal opinion is we have been attacked by a bio agent. I really dont care if you agree.
I have a question.
All of you people that think you are so infectious that the rest of us are too scared to take a $100 bet to spend a minute with you …
If it’s that bad, how do you feel about risking the health of the ABC reporter who is evidently trying to get your story out?
I hope someone sends her a hundred bucks.
Oh, this is new.
Billy Koch is evidently no longer calling himself a Morgellons sufferer?
ABC Medical Mysteries, Brandi says Billy has Morgellons, but he’s no longer saying that himself?
Did I hear that right? Billy Koch no longer wants to be associated with Morgellons?
Hmm, another dissapointing TV special. If this is the best the MRF can do they will have a tough time convincing people this is a real disease. Greg Smith’s grainy video footage of hair on his toe was not enough for me. I thought Drew was in remission and now he is in the doctors office with the same damn sore. That kid will have problems with his looney mom. Anne Dill scratches look very much self inflicted and I would say she has some sort of OCD and now it is happening to her kids from watching her. This is all just my opinion but the special does not convince me that this is some new disease. Also, how many people go over there zits and now the Anne Dill is obsessing over a zit on her kids leg and they notice all this stuff about it. I am sure if I went over my zits and obsessed about them I would find things wrong too. This is a spreading case of DOP w/ OCD.
911
I’d only heard on the program, or so I’d thought, that Billy Koch declined being interviewed, with the reason being that he didn’t want to elicit pity. I may have missed something?
Well the Morgies could always just cut their limbs off
Dunno, Smiley. But it sure was an unexpected deviation from the standard Billy and Brandi Morgellons story.
I also noted earlier that Brandi’s name is NOT signed to the MRF letter of August 9, 2006.
911, I was just about to chastise you but then I heard that all of those people who want to amputate their limbs … got together on the Internet.
holy bejeezus
Yep. well, JeezeLouise, I wouldn’t have appeared on there, either, no matter who I was. Oh man, 911. Yeah, wasn’t that just terrible!!!. Do you think they even realized (morgies) that the show kind of had a “certain theme” to it? That demented background music during their segment was just awful.
Hmmmm. Have just finished viewing the ABC program about morgellons. I am still a non-believer that morgellons exists, but truth-be-told it will probably take the CDC coming up with a case definition for it and other hard evidence to convince me. In the meantime I do believe that those who are suffering are indeed suffering from something, and are probably suffering from more than one thing. I believe the lesions are real and that the fibers are real, I just don’t believe the fibers are being produced by the body–I believe they are environmental. The fiber coming out of Dr. Smith’s toe did not look like anything out of the ordinary to me. The fibers that are magnified to the Nth degree all look weird, whether someone says it came out of their lesion or Michael picked it off his shirt. That’s what happens when you magnify things to the Nth degree–they look weird and unfamiliar.
It sounds like Dr. Wymore’s heart is in the right place and I hope he and his team find the answers that will help the sufferers one way or another. I certainly wouldn’t mind being wrong if it turns out that morgellons is a real disease, quite the contrary.
Well, okie dokie. The greatest effort and hope of the MRF has been broadcast. I’m too freaked out over the self-amputees to even remember any details of the Morgellons segment.
The Morgellons segment was reasonably fair and balanced, but the scheduling could not have been worse. Leading into the amputation segment?
Rhonda Casey threw off such a bad vibe, it nearly blew me out of my seat.
Why doesn’t somebody run a spectrograph of the fibers, and why doesn’t someone publish what the chemical contents are?
It looks like from the show that they ran one. I’ve got a screen grab of what they showed, which was two overlaid graphs, maybe the sample and a best fit. Anyone know how to read one of those things.
The bottom scale is not clear. But I imagine you could recognize something.
They are cheering wildly at LB.
Nice job, Ken Cowles. Morgellons is forever fixed in the public mind right next to the guy who froze his legs off.
Of course, that’s just me, and I didn’t need to give that commentary. Skooze me.
But my gosh, I would agree with her, just to not have to listen to her. (Ooops. Sorry,I did it again.)
MHKS, your post absolutely describes my position. I do completely believe that people are suffering, I just do not believe they are suffering from “Morgellons”. I further believe that allowing these very ill people to believe that they have a new and unique syndrome is very harmful, it prevents them from seeking proper treatment for real physical issues.
What I don’t understand is why that makes me the enemy.
That graph may have been the signature from a gas chronomograph of the fiber overlaying the closest chemical match from the data bank.
I feel in my gut that people with this illness have always been in existence, but have come out of the woodwork due to one woman opening the door.I don’t think anything will happen for most of them other than their continued descent. There are plenty of things I only wish could happen, so that everyone concerned was well taken care of, but I feel the sting of reality telling me nothing will ever be any better. I feel so distraught, not only for their hard-headedness (although that’s not even fitting, for this), but the children. My God, the children. The pets also. If people are hell-bent on self-destruction, why the others have to pay, and nobody is on their side, is just too much to think about.
You guys, excuse me but I’m tired of this illness being sidelined; so I’m going to post some things I know and do hope that is okay-if not, I do not mind if you erase it.
My research has led me to two seperate areas of our disease. One being, what is causing our skin lesions and the other being what the fibers are.
What I do not quite understand is how the two go hand in hand.
I will start here. The skin eruptions, to the best of my knowledge is from a bacteria called Wolbachia. The biggest spreading vector is the parasitoid wasp. (which 5 were found in my home and sent to Orkin who sent it to the Texas A&M Ag. Research Dept.) but this wasp is not just what you would call
a transgenic or GM wasp, but a SYNTHETIC ONE; aka robotic.
They use this wasp for biocontrol purposes on the crops (for pest that infest melons, etc.,)
They released this Wolbachia tainted wasp in the 3 states that have the highest Morgellons sufferers: Tx, Cali, and Florida.
In 1993 40,000 wasp were released in Mission Texas. (I dunno if this is the same wasp or not)
This wasp is also turned lose in food warehouses to do it duty on the crates of exposed, unpackaged food. *yes, this used to be illegal-only could be released in the crops out in the open fields but money talked and laws were changed.
There is the bacteriophage that is responsible for getting this into humans….the tripartate I believe it is called…the bacterophage, wolbachi= embiosymbioses…(I may be leaving some facts off here>no notes, sorry)
I do have a plethora of documents to back up what I am saying.
I know the lead scientist name if that would help (although I’m not saying unless asked to).
something about wolbachaia and CI or cytoplasmic I. (brain dead here too)
I also am pretty sure of what the fibers are….all I will say is that there is some glass, silicone involved…..some are natural and some are fiber optics…..
BUT THIS IS WHAT PISSSES ME TO KNOW END….IF I CAN FIND THIS OUT; AND I AM A NOBODY (NOBODY IS PERFECT;THEREFORE I AM PERFECT…HAHA) THEN WHY THE HELL CAN’T THE SCIENTIST AND OR DOCTORS FIGURE THIS OUT, HUH?????
CAN SOMEONE ANSWER THAT FOR ME??? OKAY, GOING TO SHUT UP HERE. i DO NOT MIND AT ALL IF THIS IS ERASED….I JUST HATE THE FACT THAT NEW WEBSITES ARE SPRINGING UP AND HERE WE F-ING GO AGAIN…WITH NO MENTION OF A DAMN THING…..IF THE PROPER PARTIES DO NOT FIND SOME PANACEA FOR US THERE WILL BE LAWSUITS
i’M SURE.
I JUST WANT TO GET WELL-DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE BLAME-GAME; ALTHOUGH I KNOW WHO IS PERFECTLY TO BLAME FOR BOTH THE FIBERS
AND ALSO THE WASP WITH WOLBACHIA….
I DO NOT MEAN TO SOUND LIKE A NO IT ALL, BUT BY GOD, I KNOW SOMETHINGS AND I KNOW I’M TIRED OF THIS BS FACADE BEING STAGED BY THE KISS-ARSE SCARED LIL DERMATOLOGIST.
THANK YOU AND GOODNIGHT
You get em, London. Nighty-nite. Hang tough,
JeeezeLouise Says:
August 9th, 2006 at 10:26 pm
Did I hear that right? Billy Koch no longer wants to be associated with Morgellons?
______________________
Once Mrs. Koch contact the Morgellons Research Foundation - Mary and Cowles had to get her husband on board. But we are not to sure if it was Cowles there media guy - but Mr. Koch family started to get harrassed by the local media - which I am sure Cowles told them were to go. It’s VERY sad the the M.R.F. can’t even WAIT for people like the Koch’s to come to terms with Morgellons. No the MRF needs to exploit they first. Very said.
LIKE I have been saying:
OSU OSU OSU OSU OSU
Need NURSES for support of morgellons - they also have morgellons and know what everybody is going through.
http://www.cherokeechas.com
OSU OSU OSU OSU
Tallcotton- I AM paid to research this disease. I’m a research assistant in the only lab that is currently researching this disease. And I don’t expect to be treated like nothing happened. I didn’t come back here to “make nice”, but I, the mother of five kids, A&P and nutrition instructor at a community college as an adjunct, full time biomedical grad student and a full time research assistant. There it is. If you want to call me nuts, fine. But I AM one of 3 people that are currently working on the research end of things, so I’m privy to information that none of you has. You can continue to disbelieve me, I truly don’t care. Michael, could you please clarify that I am who I say I am?
Jace is exactly who she says she is.
Wow, I continue to be impressed by the power of the internet to supercharge human delusion. Anybody interested in understanding what’s going on here should should do some research on ‘Devil’s Rye’, and it’s role in witch hunt psychoses.
Humans are very good at finding patterns in things - even when they don’t actually exist. This tendency has to be controlled with rigorous logic, or things get really weird, really quick (witch hunts again). The best antidote to this is a simple piece of logic called ‘Occam’s Razor’ that has been used successfully by philosophers for a long time. Basically it says that in the vast majority of ‘mysteries’, the simplest explanation is best.
For example, elaborate tales about parasitic wasps, bizarre bacteria, government experiments, third-world textiles and dark conspiracies ring ‘crazy’ to most of us. I ran across a posting that showed that some so-called morgellons fibers were found to be made of cellulose. The posting suggested that the next line of inquirey should be to find a bacteria capable of producing cellulose. The simplest explanation is that the cellulose fibers were - paper. Lots of those floating around. Red and blue fibers? How many red and blue fibers can be found in the clothing that everybody wears? Again, simplest explanation.
The Morgellans debate is just another child of the internet. Review the postings that come up in a Google search and you will find almost exactly the same language and phraseology repeated from site to site - and most recently in the newswire stories. This is midsummer, remember, the silly season, when journalists look for oddball stories to sell newspapers.
500+ cases - a hard number to confirm and in any case statistically insignificant - hardly ’sweeping the nation’. (Gross Morbid Obesity is vastly more prevalent in North Am with rather obvious pathologies). It certainly isn’t hard to come up with 500 delusional hypochondriacs in a population of 350 million. In days gone by, these mentally ill people would suffer in isolation, but today, thanks to the miracle of the web, they can form an online support group, reinforcing and codifying each other’s hallucinations. It’s what humans do best. Of course, there is no shortage of lawyers and unscrupulous medical researchers in the land of for-profit medicine willing to take them ’seriously’ in search of research dollars. Petty sad stuff.
As for the photos on the ‘Morgellons Research Foundation’ website they easily confirm that this is a munchausen-by-proxy obsession at best, a cynical hoax at worst (I’m leaning towards hoax). Notice the so-called lesions on the child’s lip - particularly the linear quality and extremely even spacing. These are almost certainly lacerations (cuts), possibly from the claws of an angry cat. The magnifications of tissue showing fibers are obviously showing contamination from clothing, probably a blanket. I just checked my belly button and found a creepy little black thing that looked like a bug, but which under a magnifying glass was determined to be a bundle of fibers! There are bundles of whitish fibers between my toes as well…
A more interesting study would be to research the neurochemical imbalance that leads to this kind of delusional behaviour. 5 will get you 10 that the folks who have suddenly discovered they ‘have’ this so-called condition have a history of other mental illness - probably untreated due to their inability to afford medical treatment.
The real issue here is not whether this fantasy is real, it is whether the perpetrator of this hoax should be prosecuted for malicious mischief or fraud.
Another little gem for penetrating a mystery: “Cui Bono?” or “who benefits?” Remember the severed toe in the Wendy’s chili?
Keep your bullshit detectors on high folks, there is more goofiness like this to come.
Jace, you’re dancing around, calling Michael an ass (was that you who had the posts from “MAF”?) and flying off the handle and not able to make sense in a reply post on a miniscule blog, then hiding under “anonymous” and whatnot. It’s not professional, and it is not conducive to me trusting you. If my doctor or a reseracher I knew couldn’t even write a sentance that makes sense on a blog, well, you see where I’m going with this.
If you have information that “proves” Morgellons exists, and you are allowed to talk about it, then, heavens, what is holding you back?
For example, all I’ve seen Dr. Wynemore say is “They’re not environmental fibers.” What has beeen done to assess this?
Another is “The patients are not picking their skin.” What has been done to assess this?
Another is, “All of the patients have the same symptoms.” Even I know this is not true. What has been done to assess this?
Just let it all hang out, dear.
Okay a)I did am not morgellonsassfucker- it was hard for me to even type those words. b)I still don’t understand what I’ve said that didn’t make sense and I would be more than happy to explain what I meant if someone would just tell me what they’re talking about c)I did not hide under anonymous- the anonymous I accidentally did above was corrected when I saw I hadn’t signed in d)what is holding me back is that I was told that I could divulge this info to anyone who asked. I waited for someone to ask and now that person will get the information here. I’m used to a forum where you can go back and edit mistakes, so some things I’ve posted and then noticed a word or two missing I was unable to fix. Continue to hate on me all you want. Now that the media blitz is over we’re hitting the lab hard and heavy to get results. I will continue to read this board because it’s interesting but I will no longer do any back and forth sniping with anyone here. I don’t have the time or desire.
… and the elaborate fantasy prize goes to ‘London’ for ‘Robotic wasps’. Cool!
Okay, okay. Nevermind Morgellons, the now the game is “How many of these wacky postings are tongue-in-cheek? C’mon, fess up all you wannabe X-files writers!
Jace, I am looking forward to what your research will show? One question, have these people undegone some sort of mental health evaluation during your research. And what exactly are you guys research, the fibers or what could possibly be causing it. Michael, do you and Jace know one another? Hmmm, I have many question this morning. Hope all is well.
Jace responded to an email that I sent to the place where she works, which is how I know she is who she says she is. She’s is being quite honest and I’ll vouch for her, although I may disagree with her conclusions.
cracks me up… “When told of Dr. Bill Harvey’s successful treatment with antibiotics of Morgellons patients in Houston, Dr. Peter Lynch of the University of California, Davis said the ‘cures’ are easily explained by the placebo effect. Patients treated with sugar pills, for example, often get well because they believe they are receiving medicine.”
and where did randy train? uc-davis for bs and uc-irvine for phd…. too funny…
and rhonda casey DO? she is not even board certified by the american academy of pediatrics… she went to school and trained at osu/trmc…
osuhsc and trmc are an absolute joke…
quackery and delusional patients…
I think this site makes me itch like CRAZY!!!
Will the conclusions be posted. I would like to see the results. Do they show any signs of a pathegon or anything that would prove this to be a disease?
Hey Jace, you sound like a stand-up sort of person to me. I can’t begin to express my gratitude in the work of you and your staff. Thank you and Dr. W ever, ever so much. Michael has my email if you ever want to talk.
Aherah
Dear Skeptic G,
You must work for Lucent Technologies or Bell Labs. I say this b/c they know what the fibers are…want me to explain? in detail?
And the parasitoid, synthetic wasp is ever so true…..here, Skeptic G, just for you being so hateful and obviously grasping to cover up something (you must work for the DOE if not Lucent or Bell. Or, of course, maybe the Agricultural Dept.)I will give you the guys name here in the states that is the leading expert in London’s make believe lil wasp theory….
Now, he’s know delusion or illusion you see Skeptic G, he’s a real live scientist at The Josephine Bay Paul Center and his name is
Seth Bordenstein.
Now, would you like more information on anything? I have tons more and will freely give it to you just for the asking or smearing, you kind, twisted soul you…
I must apologize for the improper spelling of No/know above and also ask cover-boy skeptic G if he would like some documentation to go along with my information. So, what do ya say SkepticG, huh? Want some?
or maybe Skeptic G, you would even better benefit from seeing the so called Wolbachia Genome first hand from guess who???
The National Science Foundation!!! I got more here too, but I will just sit and wait until you try to smear me again.
or, of course, ask me. (which we both know won’t happen because you know I know and will post it) so, what do you want to do now Skeptic G? Just let me know…..
AFTER Primetime last clip - the Nurses at N.M.O. did get much sleep with request for support. They are back at it this morning replying to emails. What a team over at N.M.O.
If anybody has or knows someone that has Morgellons and would like support - The Nurses at the New Morgellons Order would be glad to help give support. All the Nurses at N.M.O. have Morgellons and know what people are going through.
the New Morgellons Order : http://www.cherokeechas.com
CLICK ON MEDIA ALERT - NEWS COVERAGE TONIGHT 8/10/06
Ok I probably sound like a broken record but I am in too good of a mood today!!! People are getting support woohoo
WAY COOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
London, you are misinterpreting what you have been googling. Bordenstien’s research seems to be purely forensic gentics - just looking at the genome of mutually evolving species like parasites and their hosts to see how they evolved together in the past. Just because you google a few key words, and they come up on some guys page, means ABSOLUTLY NOTHING. You need to be able to understand what is being said on the page.
I know you mean well, but please try to keep your theories sensible, and based on verifiable evidence. If you think there are robotic wasps, then provide some evidence of robotic wasps. Otherwise, keep looking.
speaking of London’s lil make-believe wasps
here is a snippet for you…remember when I ttried to tell you of reproducible (molecular parasites?) I tried, but I am delusional? yeah buddy, right. Here you go:
THE WASP:
Their intricate parasitic effects on arthropod reproduction are collectively denoted ‘reproductive parasitism’, and their beneficial effects in filariid nematodes include vital impacts on fertility and larval viability. We use this unique, natural plasticity along with high throughput molecular approaches to distinguish the incipient genomic events that shape lifestyle among these endosymbionts. Recent studies indicate bacteriophages are surprisingly common, laterally transfer between distantly related genomes, and recombine at high rates. These findings raise future opportunities for determining the extent of lateral transfer and phage infection in bacteria that are traditionally considered highly stable and prone to genome degradation.
Hmmm, get some help london. You spend too much time chasing around silly theories of modified wasps spreading a disease in which humens sprout fibers. The more of this junk I read the less serious I take this whole Morgellons thing. How many other people have come on here with theories that it was caused by french bottled water, bio-chemical testing, chemtrails, in the months this blog has been up? I want to see what Jace and other people who research this (cdc) condition have to say before I make a final call.
Michael,
Sorry, I just saw your post. Okay, will take your advice….I even have a photo of one a girl from Italy made.
I will gather it up into better documentation. I just did not want this sceptic G smearing me anylonger.
If it smear or be smeared; screw them.
911,
But you don’t get it. I don’t care if you, nor anyone else believes me.
Funny, I have a team of Medical doctors here in Dallas that do….
Maybe this will help:
Mecheng: ProjectsA Robotic Model Wasp to Investigate Parasitoid Insect Plume Tracking Behaviour … robotic model of the parasitoid wasp, Cotesia rubecula default. …
wXXXXXXXXXXXXXedu.au/robotics/robotics_projects.php?wpage_id=44&title=6&browsebytitle=1 - 12k - Cached - Similar pages
Wind Sensor and Robotic Model Wasp Development (ResearchIndex)To model this plume tracking using a mobile robot, an appropriate wind sensor … 0.1: Kin Discrimination and Sex Ratios in a Parasitoid Wasp - Reece Shuker …
XXXXXXXXXXXXX.edu/644964.html - 20k - Cached - Similar pages
[PDF] Wind Sensor and Robotic Model Wasp DevelopmentFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
to be designed for a mobile robot, allowing it to imitate. the wind sensing capabilities of the parasitoid wasp Cote-. sia rubecula. …
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX/papers/16.pdf - Similar pages
I’m sorry to expose this. They chose to infect us and they do not seem to care…I have waited patiently for some panacea from the powers that be since June 1st.
I think I am getting impatient. Am I worried? Well, I’m dying a miserable death so you be the judge.
I will quit here..
London
Because this is a medical mystery and no one has ever heard of Morgellons…does. not. mean. it. doesn’t. exist.
My spouse used to work for a company that no one have heard of, therefore, in their minds, it didn’t exist.
Same for this mystery disease.
People generally fear the unknown and so, because the general public has now been made aware of Morgellons disease, but…don’t understand it, they’re too! willing to write all sufferers off, as well as the medical community, as needing psychiatric help because they’re ‘delusional’.
When people don’t understand something, they fear that which they don’t understand and react towards others in a irrational manner, no matter how otherwise intelligent and educated they are.
End of story!
J.Lousie said: “What I don’t understand is why that makes me the enemy.”
J. Lousie, I don’t view you as the enemy. I can see that you, like MHKS, have an ounce or two of compassion. You’ve rarely been rude to me; I don’t plan on being to you. You see, the fact that you doubt what I, a rational person seeking rational explanations, have seen time and time again is just as patronizing as the doctor who writes “DOP” upon the mere mention of fibers. Actually, I appreciate that you take more time to listen than they do. If I ever suffered a delusion, it was that I thought I could sing. I’ve come to grips with that one. Fibers come out of my skin. I’m sorry that this thought so thoroughly offends people. You seem to think, Louise, that the doctors are going to fix these “illnesses” that we have. We’ve all been to doctors. I gone for years without mentioning fibers–nothing gets fixed. None of the standard treatments for standard diagnoses make it go away. Now you are going to say that it because I have my mind fixed on “Morgellons.” I will remind you that in 1992, “Morgellons” was not heard of, and I still had fibers. So did Elliot:
“He was full of Silica. He had fiber things coming out of his hands and underneath his nails and all over his body. He sat in the bathtub for hours at a time and soaked in salt and soda water and anything non-toxic that would relieve the pain, itching and buning. He loved his horses and his dogs. Debbie and I disagree regarding his age. I thought he was something like 36, Debbie thinks more like 43. Whatever, he was young and had a thriving business and until this stuff struck his body he had a good life. He was convinced his little girl had this as she spoke of the fluffy things, meaning the fibers and fiber balls, but as I recall she had no lesions.”
Elliot’s Disease
by: Sidney 10/16/99 1:57 am
http://members4.boardhost.com/Kritters/msg/2025.html
Oh yea, I forgot, Michael doesn’t think Elliot’s disease is the same thing as Morgellons.
ah
Carol, there are lots of rare disorders that noone has heard of that cause symptoms similar to Morgellons, like Acanthocheilonemiasis. Obviously this does not mean they don’t exist. But, no matter how rare, those disorders have had some real scientific work done on them, and have a real case definition, and real statistics. Morgellons is purely anecdotal at this point.
London, none of your stuff shows a relation to morgellons disease. My thoery on Morgellons (a short version since I am at work):
1. People are suffering some sort of skin condition.
2. ML starts up website
3. People go to website and the discover “fibers.”
4. Folks happen to have OCD like tendancys and scour their bodies for fibers and become obsessed with it.
5. The obsession leads to depression which in turn worsens condition leading ot brain fog, fatigue, joint point (all of which can be caused my depression).
6. Person becomes convinced they have morgellons, stop listening to doctors, refuse to aknowledge psychological condition, start spending large amounts of time on the internet looking at photos and various theories (chemtrails, wasps, Evian water) and treatments (grain alcohol, bleach, all stuff that weakens the skin).
7. Whole life becomes consumed with picking at and looking for fibers, depression worsens, possible suicide risk.
That seems in my humble opionion to be how it works.
Carol, yes that is true that people do fear the unknown. Yet I am not going around beliving things from people with various silly evidence and no background in science and where there have been no studies done. So far, this is all junk science and I have learned to beleive junk science.
911
You guys might want to listen to what us sufferers have to say.
http://www.cherokeechas.com/medialrt.htm
911 - I think you may need to work on your theory again.
http://www.cherokeechas.com/medialrt.htm
I have learned not to believe junk science. Sorry for the typos. Not enough time to check this stuff.
When is this info from jace going to be posted?
I have listened, and Greg Smith is the same guy who saw bugs fly out of him and a fiber scoot across his eye and try to burrow into it. That guy looks crazy.
Aherah, sorry your comment got delayed in posting since it was marked as spam for some reason.
Anyway, I think that Elliot’s disease IS the same as Morgellons, since the difference between individual cases of Morgellons is just as great as the difference between Elliot’s and Morgellons.
People have been finding fibers in their lesions since the dawn of time. Some people will inevitably obsess over them, just as some people obsess over washing their hands. The internet has just allowed groups to form and magnify each other’s obsessions.
Is there a link available for the Medical Mystery Documentary? I have only seen the 45 sec preview - not the entire show.
SarachConnor
I can’t wait to see what is said tonight.
London, the “robot wasps” paper you linked to is an abstract for a research project on wind sensors. The “parasitoid wasps,” on the other hand, are a species that lay their eggs in caterpillars and have been used as an organic pest control measure (using wasps to kill caterpillars is safer than spraying crops with toxins). As far as I can tell, there is no relation whatsoever between the two wasps in question, nor is there any connection to Morgellons symptoms. The parasitic wasps have evolved naturally to prey on a specific species of caterpillars; they wouldn’t suddenly begin to prey on humans any more than lions would suddenly switch their diet from gazzelles to grass. If there’s some evidence of a connection between “robot wasps” and “parasitoid wasps” that I’m missing, or any connection between either of these wasp projects and Morgellons disease, please feel free to point it out.
On further examination of material on parasitoid wasps, it appears that not only are they fairly innocuous to humans, but that attempts to establish them in the environment to help protect cabbage crops have failed. I’m pretty sure that if there’s some kind of plot to spread a biological agent, the conspirators would pick a more common insect and one that has less trouble establishing a population in the wild.
Anyone who’s kept up with this issue, knows where the references I base my following comments on are from, but anyone who wishes me to provide links to the original statements, may ask.
Dr. Harvey was bright enough to ascertain, back during a 2004 Reno Gazette-Journal News article, that these patients have had a breach in the immune properties of their skin. I may sound like I’m trying to be funny, here, but, I assure you, I’m not.
The forensic guy from the police lab (Boese, I believe was his name), in the MSNBC article, also, was just brilliant with the comment he made.
Proper skin care could alleviate this for a lot of people. Why they think they have an undiscovered pathogen at play, why they refused to believe the first, and all the consecutive medical diagnoses, adds up to only one thing.
Anyone working on attempting to discover something, really believing they will, in my opinion, has that same condition. I’m not referring to skin issues. Well, though, Jace gets paid to do it, working on her masters degree, so, I can see her point, on some odd level of thinking, if I make myself. One would have to believe in what they’re paid to do.
Someone wanting to make money off of such people, meaning, any doctors who diagnose and treat “morgellons disease”, could have an absolute hey-day, as I’m sure many are, as they hop onboard. Like Schwartz, for example, back at it again, in another state.
I must clarify, that I was referring to educated people of combined fields of science, with various degrees in their backgrounds, in my above comment, as to whom I was referring to, in association with looking for an undiscovered pathogen.
I have a headache, and my words aren’t coming out too well today. Excuse me.
London, here are your “robotic wasps”. I don’t see them infecting anyone any time soon:
http://www.mecheng.adelaide.edu.au/robotics/db_pics/projgalimg_30.jpg
http://www.livescience.com/images/realrobots_wasp_02.jpg
I’m only posting these pictures so people can see what you are talking about, and don’t get confused. Please do a *little* more research before posting theories and links.
Only one comment to make here.
Bad logic:
“Because this is a medical mystery and no one has ever heard of Morgellons…does. not. mean. it. doesn’t. exist.”
This kind of thinking can be used to affirm the existance of any fantasy, e.g.: “Just because there is no hard evidence for the existance of extraterrestrial visitors does.not.mean.they.aren’t.real” Please, no comments from the ufoologists, this is just an example.
Folks, this is one key difference between SCIENCE and pseudo-science. If you have no hard evidence that something exists, it is, at best, a theory. At worst, a crackpot fantasy. No, just giving something a name does not make it real. One of the ways we tell the difference between useful scientific theory and crackpot nonsense is - you got it - Occams razor. Simplest explanation is usualy true. Simplest explanation in this case: Fibers are purely environmental (we’re swimming in them), lesions are caused by perfectly common well-known causes, ‘Brain Fog’ is caused by Jack Daniels, lack of sleep (or similar), crank-bug effects by neurological disorders or chemical toxology. Sorry, no synthetic super-wasps, meteor-borne bacteria, government experiments or anything else is required to explain these rather ordinary symptoms. Now everybody calm down, go see a physician, ask for treatment for your sores, do NOT offer theories or amateur diagnoses and please follow his/her advice to the letter. You will get better (if you want to). If on the other hand you are a Munchausen hypochondriac, enjoy!
“People have been finding fibers in their lesions since the dawn of time. Some people will inevitably obsess over them, just as some people obsess over washing their hands. The internet has just allowed groups to form and magnify each other’s obsessions.”
And do they also have fibers expelling from intact skin? As I recall, Dr. Wymore said that the fibers he found were usually in the surrounding intact tissue, not the lesions. I’m not an obsessive person. Anyone who knows me will tell you the same. I simply know that what I’ve been seeing and feeling for the last fourteen years is not dust. I just want to know what it is and to what extent I should be concerned about it. Does that make me obsessive? Don’t most people want to understand their medical conditions? (particularly once their kids acquire it)
ah
Great thing, Michael. Thanks. That is what is so impossible to get a handle on, concerning some original believers in “morgellons disease”, that have branched off into groups of their own. Original believers are confused enough. I don’t think they are into playing a game, that they’re all a big part of, as “citizen scientists”, though. I don’t believe they have any realization that some people, who can’t think for themselves, could fall victim to their ways of thinking. But, I imagine that only such same-minded people are wired that way to begin with. It seems as though they’re playing a game. I suppose they aren’t, although it is impossible to tell. They just want to increase their numbers to bring validity to their disease(s). That is plural, of course, since some have chosen to get away from the name, “morgellons disease”, adopting their own disease descriptions, and contacting authorities, over it.
ScepticG, you sound a bit juvenile.
Bad logic is accepting an unproven theory of illness, and then using it as a crutch for the next seventy years. It is called the Fallacy of Ancient Wisdom (Ekbom’s syndrome). There are many theories of Morgellons. None are proven, this is true. Because it has yet to be proven doesn’t mean that it never will. Once it has, we will look back on this time and remember when we, when you mocked the sick, telling them that the fibers were just a delusion. I wonder if that has ever happened before?
I don’t have sores to request treatment for. Perhaps you should better educate yourself on the issue at hand.
ah
I see you mentioned Elliot’s disease. I first found Elliot’s before I found the MRF.
Smileykins - Hope you will listen to me on the show tonight. I am not too well at the moment, I will do my best though.
ScepticG Says:
August 10th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
I could not possibly agree more. In my opinion, I feel with certainty, they’re all victims of themselves. Some, in the worst possible way. However, considering the child neglect & abuse, and the animals allowed to die, I am appalled, and sickened, beyond measure. I see no solution, since they all have such a mixed-up understanding of so many things, on so many levels.
To Skeptic G,
Right on!!!
I’m out of it with a headache. What show, Abac68? Of course, I’ll watch.
By the way, I haven’t known of a way to bring this up, since it would have been in poor taste, but enough time has elapsed now, I believe. I haven’t seen anything in reference to it, but,a few weeks ago, when “Doc” Buckner was on Coast To Coast’s talk show, he’d said that they’d had another “morgellons disease” death that day. I’ve not seen anything. Has anyone? I apologize, and don’t mean to sound insensitive, I just thought something would have surfaced by now, pertaining to his statement.
Media Alert
Rob McConnell on X-ZONE Radio
10:00 PM - 2:00 AM Eastern
Tonight’s Guests
in order of appearance
Cliff Mickelson
Gillian Penkethman – live from Australia
Cindy Casey, RN & Chas Holman
Dr. Greg Smith & Judy Smith, RN
Greg Vigil
Final wrap up - Rob & Cliff Mickelson
Anyone recognize the fiber photo here:
http://arthritis.about.com/b/a/257370.htm
Well, to be honest, I’d have to look back at your fiber pics, as well as those of Hugh R. Delusional’s in order to make a call on that, Michael.
Thank you, Abac68. I’ll listen in tonight.
X-Zone Radio
http://www.xzone-radio.com/
Here’s an neat little article, with pictures included, for those who have microscopes.
http://www.funsci.com/fun3_en/dust/dust.htm
Affiliate stations are included on their site.
Nice link - how does one treat a dust infection??!!
That article makes me want to get a better microscope.
The artritis picture was from the fuzzballs post:
http://morgellonswatch.wordpress.com/2006/07/11/fuzzballs/
It’s a photo I took myself, of some fibers from clothes in my closet.
this is not the photo I wanted to show; that one is on a pdf file and it will not let me take the photo from it alone. But here is one up close with the electron microscope.
http://www.life.uiuc.edu/whitfield/cotesia/Cotesiacyaniridismesoscutum.jpg
London, these photos illustrate an important point: things look wierd under a microscope.
Especially for people who have never used a microscope before, when someone gets a microscope, and the first thing they do is look at their own lesions, then it’s hardly surprising that they might misinterpret what they are seeing.
http://www.microscopyu.com/smallworld/gallery/contests/2005/7thexlarge2005.html
http://www.microscopyu.com/smallworld/gallery/contests/2005/1stexlarge2005.html
Last night…
jace Says:
August 9th, 2006 at 8:44 pm
Today (hehe)…
jace Says:
August 10th, 2006 at 7:38 am
Jace, as far as I’m concerned, it amounts to very little, nothing, in fact. I don’t have anything that needs addressed with an explanation “from you”. Your comments are self-explanatory. Being a “hard science gal” isn’t a bad thing. You’ve obviously just been unable to know the scope of my, or TC’s, full op