Psychological Implications in Morgellons Disease, Part I: Somatoform Disorders

Sarah Bione-Dunn

Many sufferers of Morgellons complain that doctors won’t “open their eyes and see” that “something” is wrong with them. When physical illnesses have no apparent medical cause, physicians may suspect a somatoform disorder. A somatoform disorder is a pattern of physical complaints with largely psychosocial causes (Tayler & Mann, 1999). People with somatoform disorders do not purposefully induce their symptoms (as with Munchausen syndrome, a condition where people intentionally induce or feign illness) but believe that their problems are truly medical.

Preoccupation somatoform disorders involve people who are healthy, but become preoccupied with a mistaken belief that something is physically wrong with them. The DSM-IV-TR describes symptoms include a history of many physical complaints, usually beginning before the age of 30, that occur over a period of several years and result in treatment being sought or in significant impairment, physical complaints not fully explained by a known medical condition or drug, or extending beyond the usual impact of such a condition.

Some people with Morgellons disease have these symptoms. A history of treatment being sought for lesions, sores, crawling sensations and bugs emerging from the skin or body orifices, fatigue, fibers, and more, is typical of a Morgellons sufferer. Impairment includes people quitting their jobs, moving, staying in a hotel, withdrawal from family and friends. These complaints are not fully explained by a known medical condition or drug, and that is most significant, as it is that way with somatoform disorders. Morgellons sufferers are quoted as going from doctor to doctor for ten years without one finding cause for the complaint (Savely, 2006).

Morgellons sufferers will often admit to becoming hypersensitive or hyper vigilant regarding their skin, as is common with preoccupation somatoform disorders. This hyper vigilance creates an illusion of fantastic situations in what would normally be recognized as the usual and then dismissed. These mis-attributions snowball into a person engaging in dangerous self-medication and rebuffs from doctors, similar to Morgellons disease. In Morgellons disease, sufferers often self-medicate by bathing in bleach (or other caustic materials), ingesting mordacious concoctions, and cutting their own skin.

Even though self-proclaimed experts on Morgellons cite mental health problems as common correlates of Morgellons, the sufferers have a strong adverse reaction to the suggestion of mental health being involved in their condition, which is symptomatic of somatoform disorders. Because of this strong reaction to mental health, it is unlikely that a person who does not feel mentally ill would seek mental health assistance.


  • Savely, V., Leitao, M., & Stricker, R. 2006. The mystery of Morgellons disease: infection or delusion? Am. J. Clin. Dermatol. 7(1), 1-5.
  • Taylor, R., & Mann, A.H. 1999. Somatization in primary care. J. Psychosom. Res. 47(1), 61-66.

232 Responses to “Somatoform Disorders”

  1. The above is a guest post by Sarah Bione-Dunn

  2. Oh guess what – another plane, I do have Alzheimers disease yipppeee thank god.

  3. I continue to seek mental health assistance. Should I ring my shrink now?

  4. “Dr. Randy S. Wymore, an OSU researcher studying a mysterious skin illness called Morgellons disease, is assuring people with the disease that they are not delusional, as some have accused.”

    …and y’all know, he says this all over the place.

  5. He’s assuring ALL of them that they are not delusional?

    Note the use of the phrase “some have accused” in place of the perfectly accurate phrase “multiple doctors have diagnosed”.

  6. “Dr. Randy S. Wymore, an OSU researcher studying a mysterious skin illness called Morgellons disease, is assuring people with the disease that they are not delusional, as some have accused.”

    Unfortunately, this is an abdication of the scientific process.

    Until “Morgellons” has been proven to exist, no one should be assuring anyone of anything.

  7. Wymore’s quotes of morgies not being delusional are abundant…

    With cooperation from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Wymore’s team is studying Bay Area patients and others from around the country. His first finding disputes the frequent diagnosis of delusions.

    “Pathologists and dermatologists and lab reports [said] that these were textile fibers appearing in the skin of the sufferers. Now that’s just not true, to be perfectly blunt about it,” says Prof. Wymore.

    Wymore says his tests rule out not only textile fibers, but also worms, insects, animal material and even human skin and hair. He says the filaments are not an external contamination.

    Instead, they are a substance that materializes somehow inside the body, apparent artifacts of something infectious. More results are expected soon. And Wymore says skin problems are not the worst symptoms.

    He says a neurotoxin or microorganism may disturb muscle control and memory.

    “The neurological effects are the much more severe, life altering and much more dangerous of the conditions,” explains Prof. Wymore.

    This month, Georgia began a statewide Morgellons registry. Prof. Wymore says he is about to begin a clinical trial and offers this to sufferers: “We know there’s something going on here. You’re not delusional.”

    He has always said a lot of things he shouldn’t be saying.

  8. BTW, I recently emailed Georgia’s Department of Health, inquiring on the results of their “morgellons disease” registry that they launched in May. I got a brief message back that just gave two phone numbers to call. One was for the CDC, and they also included the office of epidemiology, which was a separate number. I don’t really care to know the results badly enough to deal with the hassle of a telephone, if that’s the only way to find out.

  9. Does anyone know what test Wynmore used to prove that his fibers were not external? Is it even possible for the human body to produce such fibers?

    If his test are not proven, or being debated by medical professionals, than how can he make such a statement. It’s statments like these, and his letter to doctors that are holding people to the belief that he is their savior, and Mary L is the blessed virgin.

  10. Heck, he’s got his act around people so smooth he hoodwinked OSU into letting him get involved in this.
    He can fool morgie people, and he can fool people who aren’t familiar with this, but he can’t fool the rest of us.
    The man is trying to fool himself. What’s that called?
    Hmm, begins with the letter “D”, if I’m not mistaken.

  11. He found SOME of the fibers he looked at to be unusual, not all of them.

    He heated them to 1400F, and they did not melt (not sure how they were heated).

    He dipped them in leaching agents and they did not leach.

    He did what looked like FTIR tests, but was unable to find a match in a database. (ABC claimed the 200,000 fiber FBI database, but more likely a 200,000 substance database).

    I’m guessing fiberglass, but either way the fact that you can heat something to 1400F suggests environmental contamination of some kind.

  12. He made those comments in May, though, too, and when were the melting point/fiber database ID tests, that we’re familiar with, conducted?

  13. I believe that way before May, he had concluded some fibers were unusual based mainly on visual comparisons with fibers he gathered from his own environment.

    “When I started this, I was skeptical,” Wymore said. “I didn’t think there was any possibility that these fibers could really be in people’s skin. My expectation was that I was going to be telling them this is nylon or wool or cotton. But the opposite was true; I couldn’t scrounge up a single sample that resembled these fibers at a microscopic level.”

  14. I think the biggest problem that many of us have in accepting this as a distinct disease or parasite is the mental illness issue.

    Even on the ABC Special, some “morgellons” sufferers claimed they showed fibers exiting their skin to doctors, but the docs couldn’t see them.

    I’m keeping an open mind of course, but we do see patients very often who claim something is going on with them but there is nothing visible at all. However, if someone came in and I did an exam; saw multicolored fibers under the skin and/or pushing out of the skin, I’m almost certain our doctor would make referrals to whomever could help.

    The mind is very powerful. This somatoform discussion reminded me of Body Dysmorphic Disorder. We’ve had these girls come in, maybe 2 in the last five years. They don’t feel well because they are taking in maybe 200 calories a day and are fainting because they are dangerously malnourished. When you ask them to describe their body, they use words like “fatty” “bloated”. Why this is relevant is because they are seeing a reality that isn’t there. They don’t know why they are listless or fainting. They only know they are fat, and suffering because they are fat. Of course a woman of age 23 who weighs 80 pounds isn’t fat, but she will get very angry if we suggest a psychiatric problem is going on.

  15. My biggest problem is there are so many people out there claiming that thses fibers are comming out of them, yet, no one but the suffer has seen it, or has visual evidence of one being extracted from the skin. I am starting to believe that the people in my life maybe suffering from this somatoform. Espically since the enviormental doctor she went to, diagnosed her with Schitzotoma. I believe she was just going from doctor to doctor until she heard what she believed she had by self diagnosing. I just can’t believe that some doctors will take money from patients, give them a mis-diagnosis, and profit because they think they are helping a person who needs mental help.

  16. It’s interesting that the place that Wymore works (OSU-CHS) teaches courses in osteopathic manipulation (therapeutic massage) which is contraindicated for somatoform and delusional disorder since it might reinforce the problem.

    I also wonder if a DO is more likely to reinforce someone with a somatoform disorder than an MD would. DOs are more “holistic” than MDs, and are very nice to their patients. Maybe osteopathic treatment might provide some relief, but reinforce the belief in the somatoform patient that there is some underlying physical condition.

    I think similar problems could arise if the Morgellons believer were to go to a Homeopathic doctor. The verbal reassurance combined with ineffective treatments might again reinforce their somatic complaint.

    Still, I’m not convinced that the majority of Morgellons believers are somatizing, I think many of them build their beliefs upon real physical conditions, especially those causing pruritus.


    Somatization accounts for up to 30% of all visits to primary care physicians.

  17. Hypothetically, look at this aspect as well. Suppose a morgie is given ant-iparasitics. A toxic body, to start with, if they, hypothetically, were to “even have” parasites, is the perfect environement for parasites. If such persons had excellent nutrition, they couldn’t harbor them, or have a belief that they are. Treating them for parasites, especially ones that don’t exist, imagine how much more toxic they will become.

    Also, treating persons who have OCD, and other anxiety problems, which are directly contributing to their self-inflicted skin injuries, with stimulant drugs, to help them with their chronic fatigue problems…

    both things assure a pattern that will amount to lots of $$$$$

    So, Sean0w2, you “just can’t believe that some doctors will take money from patients, give them a mis-diagnosis, and profit because they think they are helping a person who needs mental help.”

    Don’t BELIEVE it!!!

  18. Oh, now Michael. As a student in an OMM class I can tell you it is much more than “therapeutic massage”. Maybe this is an area you should read up on.

  19. Sean0w2, haha, I meant, don’t believe their supposed motivation.

  20. Smiley,
    I don’t. I emailed Michael about this particular doctor, and this particular situation with my family member. He gave me his opnion, and I accept his opnion because he and Dr. Koblenzer are the only two people I have talked to with logical explanations of the mystery. I do wonder, if some people out there are trying to make a profit off of the suffering of others. I mean, there are some true assholes out there who don’t care about anyone or anything except their own personnal gain.
    I am not a naive person, and my intrest into this whole Morgellons thing started with that particular family member. I know I am not the only one going through this, but I know sites like this can help me and others approach this with a stable sense of what is real and what is not.

  21. Jace:

    Do you have any idea what the picture in this link is, with the caption, “Microscopic view of a dry, membranous-like material formed over an open skin lesion of the type associated with what a small group of people call Morgellons disease.”?

    Do you know what this same thing is, that’s pictured and described at other developmental stages of interference?

    (Yeah, they are, SeanOw2, and they got a good thing going with it, too.)

  22. Mare,
    Dr. Koblenser has written some very good articles on Dermitis Artifacta, and has also written about Psycosymatics and eating disorders. Would any of her research be relevent to any of your arguments here in this blog.

  23. Sean, yes, it would probably be very relevent. Dermititis Artifecta is any self inflicted skin damage. Even the MRF case definition says that the Morgellons lesions include “self-generated” and “picking excoriations”.

  24. I’d really like to see a study correlating self-described Morgellons sufferers with mental illness diagnosis, methamphetamine or alcohol abuse, age and sex and a few other variables. If you came up with perhaps 50 cases that didn’t relate to the proposed correlates, I’ll bet those 50 mystery cases would be explainable by Dermatitis Artifecta.

    I’m more and more convinced that Morgellons is a just a pop culture hysteria.

  25. Well,
    in almost all cases that I have read about, just about everyone has some sort of derpression or alcoholizm factor associated. If this is true, than I could say that just about everyone claiming to have Morgellons, is looking for some sort of attention to coincide with their depression. If anyone here has ever known anyone to be clinically depressed, you would know that they crave attention from anyone they can get it from. Could these be a form of somatoform disorder?

  26. Somatoform disorders by who????? BY SAVELY AND LEITO AND STRICKER….Hmmmmm.. that tells me something write there!

    I wish Sarah or Michael could get their hands on
    Ms.Savely’s latest one….she wrote it on June 27, 2006 I believe. And let me tell you, it would be a more accurate portrayal of our illness- especially Sarahs since she has indeed already been diagnosed with it. (and Greg from Morgellons USA has too) I’m talking about Cat-scratch Disease… I will have to look up the title to be correct but I think the article was “IS CAT-SCRATCH DISEASE CARRIED/TRANSMITTED FROM TICKS?” > HER NAME APPEARED WITH SOME BIG-SHOT DOCTORS ON THIS ARTICLE TOO…..But here is the deal, one can find the title to the paper but there is absolutely no abstract available to read. Wonder why?

    I think it is funny that this Somatoform paper came out a couple of days AFTER Ms. Savely helped write the former one on Cat-Scratch Disease…..This is all a bunch of bullshit cover up….I think Ms. Savely has been in on it since the F-ing beginning!!!! They all make me sick. (er)

    To 911,
    For you, I’m going to even post more…
    lets see, 911 what biotech firm do you work for? What counntry do you reside? Obviously I have hit some nerve you did not want uncovered, so that’s good. Are you in Europe w/ the Royal Society? Here with the Stanford wildfire bunch? New York-you must be their new recruited chemical immunologist at Rockefeller lab? Hmm….oh, I know, you might be at Livermore huh? or you with steve at Ohio state?
    Bell Labs with Ma?
    well, certainly your not with the Okalahoma Regents and Lucent and all that plasma stuff they do? Oh well, sorry you think my post make no sense…..I will certainly make sure I do double now, just for you 911.

    and what’s so g.d., hard about understanding the fibers in my air vents? You’re obviously intelligent so why act like a dumb-dumb……

    A fact is a fact…..the fibers were airborne and pierced my skin….why? I’m pretty sure that it is safe to say that
    my body was neg. charged with all that bacteria and viruses in me and you know….the fibers (THOSE CERAMIC ONES) were positively charged. I got in very close proximity to them and Presto…..there you have it you know, like the name says, they were biocontrol filters and guess what? You can get them at Home Depot!… go to your room and open up your mind 911!

  27. Anyone with an interest in somatoform disorders, and some spare time, is recommended to read up on on Railway Spine:

    The trepidation became so marked and so common that it acquired its own name—railway neurosis—and, ultimately, its place in history as perhaps the first recognized psychosomatic illness. Many historians credit railway neurosis, and the battles the diagnosis caused among doctors, with a key role in the development of the field of psychotherapy.
    These [symptoms] included “defective memory; confused thoughts; diminished business aptitude; ill temper; disturbed sleep; hot head; impaired vision; impaired hearing; perverted taste and smell; impaired sense of touch; attitude changes; gait changes; loss of limb power…numbness; coldness; weight loss; sexual impotence.” Many of these arose quite a while after an accident, and in victims who did not appear outwardly to be injured—signs, in today’s post-Freudian world, that at least some of the symptoms might be psychological in origin.

    (“gait changes”, Dr. Wymore?)

    and an even longer article:

    the ‘hysterical’ condition is essentially one in which there is loss of control and enfeeblement of the power of the will … there is loss of the habitual power to suppress and keep in due subjection the sensations, which are doubtless associated with the various functions of the organic life of the individual … Let some sudden, profound psychical disturbance arise, such as may well be induced by the shock and terror of a railway collision, forthwith the intellectual control is lessened, while organic sensations declare their being, and force themselves into the conscious life of the individual.

    (The above quote was written in 1891).

  28. The confidential MRF/OSU registration process allows the ones behind this to know who has been diagnosed with psychological/psychiatric illnesses. MRF has claimed, all along, that 95% have been diagnosed with DOP, and have been to as many as 10-40, on the average. Dr. Wymore has made public announcements, under various quotes, such as this, to sufferers, “We know there’s something going on here. You’re not delusional.”

    You don’t need to, but would you like to attempt to explain this for the rest of the class, if you understand it, Jace?

    Diagnosis by a physician: (check all that apply)

    Autoimmune disease
    Chronic fatigue
    Delusions of parasitosis
    Lyme disease (Borreliosis)
    Multiple Sclerosis
    Psychiatric condition

    other diagnosis ___________

  29. London, this article was written by Sarah Bione-Dunn, not Savely. She just reference the Savely Morgellons paper.

    I’ve re-formatted the references section to make this clearer.

  30. I’ll clarify the question. Where’d Wymore get off saying that to sufferers?

    The Sick-Queen-of-Morgellons is the one who conjured all this up, and started the whole thing, and others who had similar, although, at the same time, various, mental health problems, making them see things in the same way, are clearly in need of psychiatric care. How can Wymore be ignorant of, “It All Started With A Young Boy Named Drew”?

  31. Smiley,
    My opinion…Wymore’s not ignorant of it, I believe he knows.

    Oh, that makes more since- I’m glad you changed the formatting. Now I will really go back and read it- not just glance over it. For you see, if the truth be told, I really don’t believe a damn word that comes from any of them so I don’t like to waste my time reading their BS.

    Michael, do you have any proof that what they say happened to Mary and the MRF really did happen? Or, can you get any? and what happened to Brandi Koch, the ex-pro ball players wife, as far as being on the board? What is your take on the criminal aspect of Mary if indeed that went down? I mean, if it did happen, then she will be indicted, right?

    and Sarah, good job for writing and sharing your thoughts! you hang in there..(I sent you a message one page back) I feel your pain and you will be in my thoughts.

  32. dr. wymore throws away more intelligence (say, in a toenail clipping) than you will ever possess shittykins… yet, if one were to make a list of the things that come out of your piehole… did it ever occur to you that he has found something?… and, that he has the right to make those statements… and, where he is at right now research-wise is well… none of your fucking business… you come off like a pompous piece of shit shittykins… i guess if the shit fits…

    why don’t you spooks here try some science for a change instead of your thin and biased opinions… i am sure your assholes stink just as bad (as your opinions)… but there is really nothing special about them either (your assholes that is)…

    london… you are still full of shit… you oughta consider a nice, healthy purge…

    do you get the point?… or do you need to borrow a hammer?…

  33. (I am not Sarah Conner)

    The 2006 paper IS the paper I quoted in the article. I feel somatoform disorders are highly underrepresented. Especially in the United States where there is little public knowledge on both psychology or entomology, people are more prone to have fear and stigmas regarding these topics. Because so little is known about entomology (it’s not a class offered in high school, and only 30% of the US go to college, and then very few of THEM take entomology) that it is common for people to make mistakes and have erroneous beliefs regarding insects.

  34. a co-worker suggested i go to the mayo clinic… i said, why?… to wait in line for a week to have my quarantine-able delusion verified… then i heard brandi koch’s story about how she was laughed at by one of their top id docs…

    do you spooks here at morgellonswatch have any thing set up to accept donations?… because i think with a little more blog and opinion practice… you might be able to pocket some serious coin… you clowns here sure sound alot like some of today’s top doctors… keep rehearsing… i mean practicing…

  35. MAfer,
    Do you know Dr. Wymnore? Is he a close personnal collegue or friend? If not, where do you get off putting someone down like that? What Science are you talking about? Have the discussions on this board not been science related? Have people not tried to cross-reference syptoms to other disease to help people realize that Morgellons does not exist? Are you in the medical field?
    I will give you one thing, my asshole does stink, I just took a shit!!!

  36. Oh, now, MAF-er, settle down, you’re just cracking me up again. I’ve been missing you around here! Have you gotten an appointment set up to try getting this taken care of for yourself, finally, since your doctor called you the other day?

  37. Everyone on this blog has an aggenda to help. Michael is unike MRF, he does not give false hope, or answers to people who need real help other than some dellusion. It’s people like you, MAFer, who are hurting people, people like my Mother, by constantly defending a dellusion, and by not looking to reason on why this is happening. I do not believe Morgellons to exist, I base this on what I have seen first hand, doctors I have talked to, and what I have read on multiple websites. Stop trying to be some tough guy, if you do not have anything constructive to say, shut the fuck up and go back to lymbusters and whine to Mary L, maybe she can invent a disease for you too.

  38. Sorry everyone for flipping out, I just don’t like when the people on this board are accused for not trying to help, when that is the whole point here.

  39. MAFer, just to clarify – it IS “Morgellons” you want us to believe exists, or are you here to prove that Tourette’s is real?

  40. MAF-er, could I have YOUR honest interpretation of how Mary Leitao came up with her “morgellons disease”, and why she did?

  41. Michael and Sarah B.,

    Duh, I am a lil slow, especially today for some reason. I was reading 3 blogs back when I realized there were two Sarah’s so I came back to announce this and then saw Sarah B.’s explanation. So I’m a lil more on the “hello-Dense” side today, and of course, according to MAFMF-er , full-
    O’-shit too. HAHAHAHAHA

    Hey Maf-er, did you see how I added anonther MF-er to the end of your heinous username? I thought it fit you better.

    By the way? What’s with your fascination and buttholes?

  42. I used to like buttholes, but damn, it was a band called the butthole surfers (from the 80′s) not the kind
    that Maf-erM.F-er likes.

    Sign me full-O’-shit but truthful too.


  43. Isn’t he fun, London??!!!! I think he thinks he sounds mean, but he puts a smile on my face like nobody’s business. He’s just a real sweetheart, trying to keep it well covered.

  44. no, i don’t know him… but unlike shittykins, he at least has a doctorate and a lab in which to conduct research…

    where do you people get off putting down morgellons victims?… you do it because you can don’t you?… there is another side as well… you know the side you fuckers continuously put down… the side which does pretty much the same thing as you are doing here… the side that cross references symptoms to other diseases and/or parasites/pathogens to help people realize that morgellons very well could be a distinct disease…

    you would like to pass off the symptoms or even a subset of symptoms morgellon’s victims claim to be presenting with already known, well established, textbook defintions for the given symptoms, demographics and geography… i don’t think the cause of morgellons will be a secret that much longer…

    don’t forget to wipe backwards there buddy… wouldn’t want to pick up something nasty…

    and… tough guy?… shut the fuck up?… you should be happy you are not within arms reach… considering a couple of the holes in my skin… you could not possibly do anything worse to me… i, on the other hand would have a party with you… give ‘ole mumsy a hug for me wontcha…

    london… i see that… so now i am Michael ass fucker mother fucker… cool… that Michael is a mother fucker isn’t he… i knew it… which side are you on london?…

    jl… tourettes runs in the family and is caused by inbreeding i believe… i am so sorry for you and your family…

    sk… yes… i am fun… mary?… she is really not my inspiration or my savior… i do not know her so i can’t say she is my enemy like you can… i do my own research…

  45. I guess MAFer is on the phone right now with Sysetamtic, planning their attack against this board. Don’t forget the .45cal and the Bud boys. Just get in that Ford Bronco and head north to slay the yankee’s, yeehaw!!!!!

  46. MAFer,
    Just let me know where to meet you, so we can get within arms length. Let me get a little more perosnnal, I am getting married in Nov, and the most important person in my life will not be there because of people like you. This is why I will not stop comming off strong to you. How do you think the family members of Morgellons people feel. Espically people who are in my position. Like I have stated before, I know for a fact what she needs for help, but all she can do is sit there and try to find fibers comming out of her, constantly putting witch hasel and hand lotion with bleech all over her for these things to come out. She is living proof that the whole Morgellons thing is a shame, I just wish some news broadcast would interview her, live, to see what a crock of shit Mary L and her cause is.

  47. remind me where i said that i was planning an attack on this board or any other for that matter…

    i think systemic revealed who he is on b.o… hardly a hick… me… i am a yankee and i strongly dislike fords… as if that matters…

    Michael… sean0w2 is hurting your side’s credibility… he sounds just like a morgie… or, maybe he has tourettes… what do you think jl?…

  48. because of people like me?… fuck you asshole!… you are the incompassionate fuck… why don’t you postpone the goddamn wedding and get your mom some help?… me, me, me, me, me, me, me, fucking me… fuck you…

    it’s because of people like you that i have skin lesions… you won’t listen or look at something that is right before your goddamn eyes… have a nice wipe asshole…

  49. Maf-er

    why I’m on the shitty side according to you. Listen, although Michael’s does not aggree with me, our problem does exist and it is caused from Wolbachia, the bees and the wasp, and it’s VENOM! What it does to the gm plants is the worst! It (the wasps’ venom, mastoparan,) has the ability to chemically change the vegetables and this is how we are getting so ill. I don’t care if no one believes me but this is the answer that I so desperately wanted to find out. Also, what I do know but have never posted about, is the fact that there is something more involved, and it’s the wasp/bee MITES…I did you not.

    There, although this is not the whole shabang of the illness, this is the main culpret. Take it, or leave it.


  50. and the so called worms are molecular ones….in other words they are made from chemicals…..for instance protein kinases….and when the mastoporan (wasp venom) spews upon the carrot plant, hence it triggers the protein Kinases into action! Also puts the human growth hormone into action!

    I dunno what medicines fix all this but our genes have been translocated- I now have R. arthritis b/c of this.

    You should take your anger out on the Dept. of Agriculture, the DOD and the Army…..and, of course, my favorite university…..Standford…..

  51. London, what else have you been diagnosed with?

  52. I had some catching up to do, just now. SeanOW2 is just fine, MAF-er, settle down. Sugarlumps, you do, I assume, consciously come here to attack people with obscenities,when you come here and do it, unless you’re just subconsciously programmed to end up here, and don’t know what looking around on a debunking site for “morgellons disease” will do to ya. That sounds like a plan ya got going on, to me, but whether it’s thought out ahead of time, or not, only you know that.

    Systemic is trying to come to terms with things. They’re a Hurricane Katrina survivor, trying to sort through things on their way to recovery now, after just saying so yesterday. Keep in touch here, Systemic!! Good luck & I’m praying for you, even if saying that will bring on some more fun & games.

    MAF-er, so you feel comfortable admitting that you don’t know anything about Mary Leitao, nor why, and how, she came up with “morgellons disease” Well, that’s the same as numerous others who were, and are, distraught, disillusioned, hopeless, misunderstood, and vulnerably susceptible to this. You identified, you thought, with what she was selling, and you bought it at face value, hook-line-and-sinker, without question. Because, “bingo!!”, that was exactly what you had, precisely, and your doctors were dumbasses too, same as everyone else’s. Why, just look at all the dead cellular waste and environmental fibers and specks that everyone had of their “skin parasites”, pictured all over the web. All over the globe, people shared similar looking “parasites”. Then, she made it bigger as she went along, too, expanding her “case definition” to sucker even more of you in, making you all even sicker, and more scared. Nobody quite understood so many people, as she, who’d all felt that their doctors had turned their backs on them, just the same as they had her.

    Michael had previously said:

    Still, I’m not convinced that the majority of Morgellons believers are somatizing, I think many of them build their beliefs upon real physical conditions, especially those causing pruritus.

    True, I’m sure. It’s many things to many people, for many reasons. I know there are some morgie people that are doing like I did for a couple of months, too, only, of course, they have their own individual causes behind it. I can tell by their words, they are stuck in it differently than my temporary state had been. I was not seeking anything but answers for myself. Just me, alone. I didn’t base a belief on anything, either. Rather, a state of physical illness made me see things happening, many of which were, some that weren’t, but my interpretation was, shall we say, “on the blink” for a couple of months, until I got over the physical illness. It just whipped me out! I can see through the eyes of someone else’s perspective, and how easily they fell under this false belief. It’s bad, though, and it’s harmful, no matter what their situations have been that brought them to it.”Morgellons disease” is a lie, but people are very ill.

  53. Gee, my family did things the easy, old-fashioned, boring way, with passing genetic diseases down through heredity. Well, but ya know, I got that old-time cat scratch fever, too, instead of that newfangled type. Where does that kind come from, London? Robotic cats, cloned cat species, flying cats, or just where, zackly?

  54. Don’t tell me those squids had something to do with the new cats we have spreading this now. TED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  55. London,

    You are nuts. I am done with you. You are obviously not very stable sitting around all day at home making up false hypothesis about ceramic fibers, wasps, and whatever the hell else you mumble about on here.

  56. 911,
    Just saw your post! You’re not very nice. I am not nuts yet, here’s proof that I was not lying:

    Mastoparan induces an increase in cytosolic calcium ion …Mastoparan induced a transient elevation of cytosolic free Ca2+ concentration ([Ca2+]cyt) in tobacco… – Similar pages

    Pertussis toxin-insensitive effects of mastoparan, a wasp venom …Recent studies have shown that mastoparan, an amphiphilic peptide derived from wasp venom, modifies … – Similar pages
    [ More results from ]

    Mastoparan, a wasp venom peptide, stimulates release of prolactin … – 2 visits – Aug 19Studies have shown that mastoparan and other amphiphilic peptides induce … We have studied the effect of mastoparan on the secretion of prolactin from … – Similar pages

    Mastoparan Rapidly Activates Plant MAP Kinase Signaling …File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – View as HTML
    relationship between photosynthesis and a mastoparan-induced hyper- … et al (1994) Mastoparan may activate GTP hydrolysis by Gi-proteins in … – Similar pages

    So, what are you hiding mean 911? Need more proof? Were you involved in all of this or something? All one has to do is read; it’s right there. Just go to the NSF website for more proof> or the USDA or the DOD….check out that big machine they have at Stanford-Stanford Synchrotron Radiation Laboratory

    or better yet, that really big,bad thing they have down in Australia. Now the following may be a reason I mentioned cat-scratch disease…..or possibly typhus, trench fever, etc., and 911, both Sarah C. and Gregg from Morgellons USA both have already been diagnosed with cat-scratch. I will have to catch up on the posting later.
    Bye 911, sorry the truth upsets you so….here, just for you:

    Diseases caused by -Protobacteriaceae
    Mite and tick species are commonly infected with intra-cellular microorganisms
    (Šut’áková, 1988, 1994; Steiner, 1993; Munderloh and Kurtti, 1995;
    Bjornson et al., 1997). Most of these micro-organisms have been placed
    into the family Rickettsiaceae within the alpha subdivision of the Proteobacteria
    (Figure 5). The family Rickettsiaceae or rickettsia-like-organisms
    consists of three tribes – Rickettsieae, Ehrlichieae and Wolbachieae (Weiss
    and Moulder, 1984) – which have a number of features in common: they
    are obligate intracellular gram-negative bacteria naturally found in arthropod
    hosts, they multiply inside eukaryotic cells and are often surrounded
    by multiple membranes. Some are capable of infecting humans and other
    vertebrates, but are frequently pathogenic in these secondary hosts causing
    severe diseases such as spotted fever, typhus and scrub typhus (Hayes and
    Burgdorfer, 1989).

  57. Make sure you read the last sentence very carefully! Also, this wasp mite has something to do with the ions of the dust mite, but unfortunately, I have to run. But, if you continue 911, so will I.

  58. Hey, I just got home, and I feel I’ve just had an epiphany.

    When Dr. Wymore says things like, “We know there’s something going on here. You’re not delusional”, the poor thing doesn’t know what “delusional” means. It seems that since morgies proclaim that their doctors have all said, “It’s all in your head”, Wymore misunderstood that to mean there was nothing tangible. I betcha, I betcha. Right, Jace? Even you have a rare kid with no fibers in their eczematous skin.

  59. Now that would a good study, right there, Jace. Do you live in a vacuum?

  60. I ‘m looking at your links, London, and your comments about the links, but how are these things causing these fibers to sprout out of a person’s skin?

    In the Morgellons realm, I see a lot of conspiracy theorists and “the government is out to get me” attitudes. Chemtrails, UFOs, etc., it all seems to me to be a little over the top.

    When we are young, we imagine that the slightest sound in the night, the shadow we don’t recognize, to be fantastic and scary things. This is a permeating belief throughout adulthood, that things we don’t know are scary– or MUST be scary. As we grow older, we realize that what we thought before to be scary and unknown is actually commonplace and harmless.

    This is common in new parents as well. Every sniffle, sneeze, cough, or stray from what is “normal” in development seems catastrophic, when more often than not, it is merely just how a child is growing.

    So with Morgellons, I would gander that what we don’t understand or the things that are unfamiliar (fibers) become scary. They are the products of our minds and imaginations dealing with things that either are the norm and just now brought to a person’s attention, or are explained by common factors if only a person would stop their fantastical attribution. Fibers would suddenly just be from one’s clothes, a rash would be just eczema, etc.

  61. I have only worn white cotton clothing and linens since March 2006, to rule out the possibility that the fibers come from my clothing. The fibers in and on my skin continue to be blue, red, black, and clear. My psychiatrist can see the fibers too.

    Last Friday, we scrubbed my hand clean until we each confirmed with microscopes that no fibers remained. Open a new package of extra thick, extra long, latex/neoprene gloves (yellow with white interior); put one over my clean hand; taped it tightly all over the arm. Over the weekend, on Saturday night, laying in my bed, I felt the familiar stinging piercing feeling, near the base of my thumb. The stinging lasted for about 20 minutes. I returned to my doctors office on Monday morning, cleaned off the hand-held microscope and removed the glove. I knew just where to look for a fiber, at the base of my thumb, sure enough I found it in moments – a thick black shiney fiber. (When I say thick, I still mean thinner than a hair.) My doctor could see it too.

    I never thought I had bugs or worms and was ever diagnosed with Delusions of Parasitosis.

    When I first went to my primary care physician, I told her I thought I had fiberglass in my skin, not that I had been exposed to fiberglass, but that is how it felt, plus, I was pulling colored translucent fibers out of my skin. I did not know what else to make of them.

    She refused to examine me, told me it was just my imagination and sent me directly to a
    top-notch psychiatrist. After much investigation – the psychiatrist says I have an infestation of fibers.

    My psychiatrist has observed fibers that he swears were under my skin. He was confounded that the fibers under my skin did not appear to cause any local inflammatory response, even after being there for several days.

    My only abnormal blood test results are persistantly elevated TNFa levels.

    I used to have lesions. I believe the lesions are excoriations. Excoriations caused by excavating the fibers. The fibers are painful and removing them relieves the pain.

    Doxycycline caused drastic reduction in numbers of fibers and continues to keep them in check.

    The lesions went away too with the Doxycycline, because no need to excavate fibers. The lesions stay away because I keep band-aids over each of my fingers, so I can not pick and pull at the few fibers that do emerge.

    I admit the picking became a psyciatric problem.

    Where are the fibers coming from? Why are they under my skin? What are they composed of?

    My doctor is currently trying to get the fibers examined with TEM, SEM, and x-ray spectrography. The guy who said he would do it should be back from vacation by now…

    Please ask me questions.

    Share your ideas.


  62. Sarah, certainly you jest, or you are thoroughly stoned. How many of the 5,000 +/- Morgellons sufferers have you met? How did you find them? How many were not frequent posters to lymebusters? Describe how you managed to get the sample group from which you drew these conclusions. Describe to me the scientific process that led you to these conclusions. I look forward to reading your response tomorrow morning in lieu of the paper.

  63. Greta, about how long are your fibers?

    Have you ever pulled one out of you skin and seen how much of the fiber is under the skin, and how much protrudes?

    If you bend the fiber in two, does it snap?

    One theory is that the fiber you found entered the glove when you put your hand in. Fibers float around in the air by the millions, and it’s nearly impossible to keep a surface free of fibers for more than a few minutes. The “picking” sensation you feel, that you think is the fiber emerging, is just the itching sensation of a fiber end pressing against your skin, and itch you could not scratch.

    Why does your psychiatrist not refer you to a dermatologist?

  64. Next time, why no seal your hand in transparent plastic, like a ziploc back. Then you could examine your hand after is is sealed, and then again (still sealed) to see the fibers emerge from the skin.

  65. sk… i said that i did not know mary… i did not say that i am not familiar with who she is or what she has done… the mrf is not the only website that supports the reality of morgellons disease… i don’t think she has a monopoly on it… it doesn’t take much to see that this is far more personal for you clowns here than it is for the rest of us… and you forgot dis-information… you clowns do alot of that here as well… unfortunately for you, point/counter-point is not your forte… you really do suck at it…

    sarahwhateveryournameis… i think you should actually examine someone with the fibers… is your fear of the unknown keeping you from doing that?… or are you just a textbook only kind of gal?… it takes courage and committment to be the hands-on type doesn’t it?…

    london… i am going to leave it for now… you need to stick to one or two theories and run with them… it would appear that you are trying to find the cause of morgellons disease… and maybe you are… but your intent at this point really doesn’t matter… because the result is the same either way… confusion…

  66. Michael, if she did seal her hand in plastic as you suggest and still fibers were seen, would you shut up and accept the fact that this is the real fucking deal?… or would you come up with some other bullshit scenario to fit your utopic result?…

    surely you can find a morgellons patient in person to examine yourself can’t you?… then you won’t have to go through all this bullshit via the internet that only serves to create more confusion that you are so adamantly opposed to in the first place… careful not to skew the results… you know people’s health and happiness are depending on you…

  67. I’d certainly be interested, and it might warrant further tests.

    I’m not criticising the patients. I’m criticising people like the MRF, Wymore and the media, who make sweeping claims and generalizations that I feel are misleading and hurting people since they are based on anecdotal and unscientific evidence.

    Do stigmata prove the passion of the Christ? Are they miracles? The Vatican would say so, but most people would not. Certainly most scientists would not. Yet the evidence for Stigmata is similar to the evidence for Morgellons.

    I believe what Greta is saying, I’m just not sure about her conclusion that the fibers are emerging from her body.

    Why should I examine Morgellons patients, when they have already been examined by several doctors? Why would I see something the doctors had missed, something that could not be photographed or videoed?

  68. My psychiatrist did refer me to a dermatologist – actually, two of them. The first just asked me if I thought I had bugs crawling on me. When I said no, he said maybe I have acne. He did not look for the fibers.

    The second did look at lesions and could see the fibers, but postulated that they were just clothing fibers stuck in the lesions.

    The fibers range in length from millimeters to inches.

    That is a good idea about the clear plastic, except it would render my hand completley usless, which makes it difficult to work, impossible to type, and very hard to care for my 95 year old roommate. Maybe I will try it next time anyway…

    I had cleaned my hand only moments before putting the glove on. The fiber that was there, well it got wiped off and did not float.

    About bending the fiber in half, i am not that agile, the fiber was tiny, maybe 2 mm long. Visible only as a tiny speck util viewed with the microscope. However, I have observed broken and bent longer fibers under he microscope, they do not snap broken – looks more like if you break a twig that is still alive, and then goo sputs out – in the same color as the fiber (blue fiber, blue goo; red fiber, red goo). This was also observed by my doctor.

    Yes, I have pulled out part of a fiber from my skin while some remains inside. Once, last year, I tried pulling a realllllly long blue one from my cheek and it did not slide out, it ripped though my skin in its line where it lay – leaving a several inch cut across my cheek. gross. totally sicko. I brought this to a microbiologist, but he refused to perform the doctor ordered tests on it.

  69. Your psychiatrist is a doctor, why can’t he talk to other doctors and get them involved in your case? Do they think he is crazy too?

  70. He does talk to other doctors. They do not know what to make of it. Some are taking samples and looking into it.

  71. I’m criticising people like the MRF, Wymore and the media, who make sweeping claims and generalizations that I feel are misleading and hurting people since they are based on anecdotal and unscientific evidence.

    Hey, how ’bout this guy?

  72. These people are blind to where our disgust lies. They aren’t thinking right, they can’t help it, and the more they misunderstand us, the worse it is for them, but, that’s just the way it is.

  73. People who are fiber-infested.

  74. Good Morning,
    Hey MAFer, I will respond to your message from last evening, and that will be the end of it. My Wedding has been planned for the last two years. Mom did not start with this Morgellons Bullshit until 5 months ago. There are alot of things in my past that I will not tell you, but lets just say that we know when attenti on is to be had. I can tell you do not have an open mind to all of this. What kind of medical backround do you have, MAfer?

    It is very hard for me to believe that the Dermatologist did not examine you throughly before telling you it was Acne. I simply won’t believe that a doctor would just pass you off. If he did, than you need to report him.

  75. Greta – You are a breath of fresh air to this board. At least your post are productive!!! I hope to hear more on your progress with working with some doctors. It really seems you are trying to show evidence of the fibers. I wish some that post here would do the same by trying different ways to show what happens with these fibers. I look forward to your post on your progress.

    MAF – by reading your posts – you seem to be very young with not having the mental knowledge or possibly missed learning at a young age the proper mature etiquette when trying to make a point or debate. Using the curse words in a statement or at a person is not proper etiquette on trying to get your point across but at the style you write these words it shows more that you are – inmature or lack of knowledge that you were not taught at a young age or maybe you were but decided you look more intelligent as a mature person by using the curse word style of writing. Either way – you are coming across as a discussing idiot!

    Michael – Can you take a look at the following website and give you ideas:

  76. Greta,
    Please don’t take me as comming off too strong. I have seen your Myspace page, and I see you live in Vermont. There must be some very good doctors you could go see in the greater Northeast. I am sure that Michael could help you with that. He has a vast knowledge of good doctors, and has given me his opinon on how the help in my situation. Good luck, I hope all the best for you.

  77. SeanOw2, Greta has an excellent, very caring, doctor. She was referred to him, over this issue, and, in turn, he diagnosed her with “morgellons disease”. He is on her side, and besides that, she gets treatment from him for free. She has described how he has obsessed, and, she mentioned to us, here, previously, that he didn’t think the research on it was going anywhere, and that he wants to come up with answers and treatment for it, himself.

  78. It’s not possible to know what anyone who thinks they have “morgellons disease” actually has, other than the diagnoses that are often mentioned by some people, which they ignore, convinced, only, that they have “morgellons disease”. Besides that, it’s not possible to look at what’s presented as artefact pictures, over the internet, and say what they are. Photos of the actual skin they came from would help somewhat, but diagnoses can only be made by doctors! Some people openly say that they have gotten “specimens”, which they have posted pictures of, from their environment, rather than from themselves. Some people may have developed perforating disorders, such as acquired perforating collagenosis. The dermal connective tissue eliminated in those disorders is often amorphous degenerated material, which is not clearly identifiable as collagen or elastic fibers, either one! A dermatologist would be able to diagnose that, though, if a general practitioner couldn’t.

  79. “This month, Georgia began a statewide Morgellons registry. Prof. Wymore says he is about to begin a clinical trial and offers this to sufferers: “We know there’s something going on here. You’re not delusional.””

    I’m baffled. What kind of scientist would compromise his study by saying the effects he expected before beginning?! Agh.

  80. Thank you Smiley. I just have one question, did the doctor diagnose her with Morgellons, or claim that her syptoms or those that represent Morgellons? One doctor diagnosed my Mother with Schistosomiasis, saying in his diagnosis, that her syptoms are those that are asociated with Morgellons. How can this doctor diagnose her with a disease that can only be attacted in certain parts of the world? I am wondering if Greta could shed some light on what her actual diagnosis is, and maybe point Mom in the right direction without arguing again about Morgellons.

  81. sarah b dunn said:



  82. I actually am not the expert on doctors that Sean paints me as. I opined that his mother’s doctor was a quack, based on his diagnosis of Schistosomiasis (unknown in the US, unless you’ve traveled) for someone with obvious mental illness, and based on his web site (chelation, diathermy, homeopathics, Electrodermal Testing, etc). I don’t know the best way to find a good doctor (other that personal recommendations), but I know how to spot a quack.

    Greta’s doctor seems to be doing fairly well for her. He has at least helped her to stop her neurotic skin picking, and is helping her examining her fibers in a scientific manner.

  83. Well, “we know there’s something going on here” is correct, there is “something” going on here.

    The problem is with “you’re not delusional.” Who is not delusional? Everyone who thinks they have Morgellons? Obviously SOME of them are delusional, yet Wymore is happily reinforcing their delusions. He is hurting them.

  84. Michael,
    My point being that when I have asked you for advice or your opnion, you have researched my questions, to give me an informative answer. Sorry fot the misconception. I wanted to make this point, so people who are reading this blog understand that you do take the time to help those who need it, and not just shoot from the hip.

  85. London…. In the following blockquote you stated that you have Rheumatoid Arthritis.

    “I dunno what medicines fix all this but our genes have been translocated- I now have R. arthritis b/c of this.”

    According to the following emedicine article, entitled, “Lyme Disease”, Rheumatoid Arthritis is a differential diagnosis for Lyme Disease.

    You also stated that you are having problems with your vision in one eye. When one loses their vision in just one eye, it is called “unilateral blindness”. According to the following emedicine article, entitled, “Tick-Borne Diseases, Lyme”, unilateral blindness can be caused by Lyme Disease.

    “Blurred vision and eye pain can occur from keratitis and iritis. Unilateral blindness from panophthalmitis has been reported as well.”

    London… Diseases DO NOT wait around on us to find time to begin needed medication. Please get off your butt and go get yourself tested for Lyme Disease.

    Tall Cotton

  86. TexasRose, regarding, the photos are similar to many we have seen already. What looks like fairly obvious cotton is described as “juvenile nematomorphs”, a bit of plant material is “adult nematomorphs”, some tissue is a “cocoon”.

    I am interesting in the photos labled “Borrelia”, which they claim are giant bacteria, mutated by the use of antibiotics. I’ve seen similar photos before, but I don’t know what it is. They are embedded in anal mucus, not an area I want to spend much time investigating. My suspicion is that it’s blood from microfissures or ruptured blood vessels in the bowel wall, the cell like apperance is from the blood pumping in one pulse per second as things slide by.

    The vitamin C and salt therapy is just stupid.

  87. Sean, I have to look for Greta’s statement, but if she visits here before I locate it, I’m sure she’ll gladly respond to your question. Was anyone present with your mother for what her doctor told her? I had problems with family members, in the past, going to their doctor appointments and saying things about their visits, as though I was expected to believe it. That was my clue that it was time to step in and take charge of things, due to the confusion of advancing age. It’s possible, that if your mother is a senior citizen, you, and your siblings, if you have any, need to ease into a new phase of your lives. This bites the big one, for you, as it is already, and I hope she isn’t advanced in age. Regardless, a level-headed person needs to attend doctor appointments with her, to hear for themselves what is actually being said, and taking place. That person can ask the doctor pertinent questions, and do all of the talking. I hate that you’re going through this with your mom, and that she is so ill.

  88. I wonder if it would be legal for me to start selling Morgellons vaccinations, guaranteeing that no receipient of the vaccine would ever catch Morgellons Disease. I’m kidding, of course, but the placebo might be a money maker.

  89. sean0w2… yeah… changing plans is not fun… schistosomiasis without traveling?… why not?… many doctors also believe that you can only get lyme disease if you have traveled to the northeastern states… purely geographical vectors like those based in land, soil, or local airmass or water systems (valley fever for example) may have merit for this line of thinking… but mobile vectors are a different story… if we can travel, so can they (and there are many ways they do)… surely the docs can’t be that stupid, or expect us to be that stupid… can they?… as far as mumsy goes… don’t know what to tell you… morgellons disease is a true heartbreaker…

    texasrose… well, i just started the 7th grade this year… i like to cuss because it makes me feel like an adult… my dad cusses alot and it really turns my mom on… she used to be a stripper and she likes to hear all the good ones… i want to be just like my dad when i grow up… oh… i almost forgot… sometimes i cuss at my little brother when he rides my bike without asking me… he is an asshole…

    greta… i believe you… i removed a 3-4 inch fiber from a lesion yesterday… very unexplainable… very disturbing… very painful…

    and… neurotic skin picking (neurotic excoriation)… is much more of a primal response to a foreign body than it is a neurosis or even a somatic disorder…

    tell me Michael… have you ever had a sliver in your hand or finger… do you just let it fester, let it become infected?… would you be ok with letting it heal?… no picking… will your brain allow this sliver to remain in your body for good?…

  90. Of course, it could be filamentous bacteria, found in sewage.

    If you pull stuff out of your toilet and look at it under a microscope, you are going to see wierd stuff.

    Check out the mystery filament of the month!

  91. Next time, go to a doctor and have it removed, if you can’t remove it properly, without a lot of tissue destruction in the process. How’s that for an option, MFer? There are alternative ways to encourage the removal of painful crystalized formations in skin.

  92. Besides, who knew you had such a thing, MAFer? You just said you itched, had lesions, and fibers. Maybe you have something this, too…

  93. MAF, sure, if there’s an itch, do you scratch. But you’ve got to be intelligent about it. If you feel like there are bugs crawling under your skin, do you dig holes in your skin to get the bugs out?

    I’m sure a lot of people with neurotic excoriations actually have real itching, but that itching can be caused by a large number of things, including scratching. It’s very complicated:

  94. Smiley,
    My mom is in her mid 50′s. I have a twin brother and older sister. The big problem for me is that they live in NY, and I live in PA. So, I am the only one here to deal with this. With my work schedule, it is very hard for me to get out and go with her. This all started with her when she started dating this certain guy. I believe he is the one who put this in her head. He is the one who showed me the UPC symbol, and said it was a bug/fiber that came out of his urine. I have spent time with him, and he is completly out of his mind.

    look at the case definition on the CDC website, you will see that you need to be in certain bodies of water to catch Schistosomiasis.
    So, no, I do not believe that this travels, unless someone else knows different.

  95. OMG, Michael, I love that mystery filament of the month link! They offer training!

    Filamentous Identification

    “the Easy Way”

    There are numerous training programs from our two day hands on training class for Filamentous Identification.

    Let’s take up donations to send Wymore to school!!!

  96. He is the one who showed me the UPC symbol, and said it was a bug/fiber that came out of his urine.

    Okay, I gotta hear this story!

  97. sk… go to a doctor and have it removed?… good luck with that one… you will be lucky if you can get a doctor to shoot a little lido and epi and get their hands (gloves) dirty removing scale let alone an imbedded fiber…

    then, what to do with the fiber or artifact?… send it to path so they can tell you they have never seen anything like this or that they do not know what this is?… best one yet… acute perivascular inflamation with substantial fibrous growth of unknown etiology blah blah blah blah… this of course is pretty much equivilant to no diagnosis at all… and, without a lab diagnosis (irregardless of the clinical aspect), no prescription period in most cases… so you beg to try something, fucking anything… of course, by now you are crazy…

    or, the matchbox method whereas i remove the specimen myself… screwed, blued, and tatooed as soon as i walk through the door…

    my plastic surgeon told me that in his professional opinion (i had some corrective surgery for this), that he did not believe the structures in my skin were of human anatomy… but he is just a plastic surgeon… what can he possibly do other than nip, tuck, slice, dice, and stitch?…

    it is a grave mistake to perform self surgery… this much i will give you… and, many doctors feel it is a mistake to perform surgery on something they cannot see or understand…

    Michael… you should start a blog on known cutaneous diseases and manifestations that are a)rare, b)hard to diagnose or require special considerations when doing so, c)hard to treat with current systemic therapies and/or current science, and d)where most cases require mechanical or surgical debridement in order to facilitate or preclude cure…

    alot of do-it-yourselfers out there… i suppose the same mentality might prompt you to work on your car yourself after the mechanic has attempted, failed, and billed you ten times…

  98. Jeese,
    short and sweet. Mom and friend say they have been diagnosed with Morgie, I talk to doctor, doctor tells me she did no such thing, and stated that they are dellusional. I go and see mom and friend, listen to them whine, bitch, and moan about Morgie. I confront them that they are dellusional. Friend get’s upset and tells me to look at speciman that came from his urine the other day. He and Mom tell me that it is a white bug, with black fibers or worms comming from it. I and my fiancee look at it, even with a magnifying glass. Mom and friend do the same. They tell me again what they think it is. I tell them that it is nothing more than a UPC symbol, and I show them the numbers underneath their so called black worms. (8465) I tell Mom and friend that they are nuts, and need mental health.

  99. Michael… if you subscribe to everything the cdc publishes as the gospel in modern medicine… sure…

    believe what you want to believe… the cdc reports that human leishmaniasis cases have only appeared in a couple of our southern states… yet over half of our states have reported the disease in dogs… these cases in dogs involve the same species that cause the human disease… still the cdc evidentally is not concerned…

    solution?… if you think you might have leishmaniasis living in iowa… lie to your doctor and tell him you think you might have contracted this after visiting relatives in southern texas… lie your bad ass off… that is the only way you will get tested and taken seriously… ditto for lyme and others…

  100. Sean .. I can only say whooooooa.

    I am, though, very sorry about the effect this is having on your life. This morning, I went with my father to his neuro exam (Alzheimer’s). By the time we got home, he was certain he’d been to see his oncologist (he also has prostate cancer). There’s no changing his mind, when he remembers things incorrectly and while, for now, it’s mostly harmless I do know that eventually I will have to protect him from himself. I am not looking forward to that, and you have my heartfelt sympathy for your situation.

  101. Thanks Jeeze, I wonder if Mary L or Wynmore have any say into my situation, or if there are other Morgies out there going through the same thing. My guess is that they are, that is the only way I can see doctors dismissing most cases as DOP.

  102. I don’t think it would be a good idea to encourage people to think they need debridement.

    MAFer, did you perform some kind of self-surgery on yourself?

  103. Sean, I think it no small coincidence that a significant number of people who believe they have Morgellons also report being “abandoned” by their families. Even Brandi Koch, on the Medical Mysteries broadcast, admitted that Billy no longer wanted to be associated with Morgellons Disease.

    I think it’s very sad, all around.

  104. I never believed what Brandi Koch said about Billy. Billy was a phenomonal pitcher,espically with the A’s. I personally believe she is looking for reasons on why her husband retired. She seemed out of her mind on that ABC comedy of a story. If the Billy Koch story was true, every sports network in the world would be all over it.

  105. Sean, a diagnosis of DOP is not a dismissal, that’s just the way the Morgellons believers characterize it. Each case is different, and each case has a different mix of physical and emotional involvement in the distress.

    If a doctor suggests that a patient might benefit from psychiatric evaluation, this can be taken by the patient as a “dismissal” of their very real physical symptoms. As SBD discussed, patients with somatoform disorders (and delusional disorders) have a “strong adverse reaction” to suggestions of psychological involvement. They explicitly and fully reject this, and characterize it as an abdication of the doctor’s duties.

    The doctor is not dismissing them. In all likelihood he has tested for other possibilities, and the evidence indicates some emotional involvement. The patient rejects this, and says “no, but you did not test for schistosomiasis or trypanosoma cruzi or dracunculus medinensis or wuchereria bancrofti or onchocerca volvulus or nipah henipavirus or smallpox or Lyme or legionellosis or leprosy so why are you dismissing it as all in my head?”

  106. [1]22:16:24 CYNTHIA MCFADDEN (ABC NEWS)
    (VO) Does close contact spread the disease? Brandi believes her husband, the former pitcher Billy Koch, has Morgellons, too.
    (OC) How confident are you that you and your husband both have a disease?
    Two hundred percent sure.
    (OC) And that he even had it when he was playing professional ball?
    Yes, absolutely.
    (VO) Billy declined to talk to us. His wife says he doesn’t want sympathy, and refuses to link Morgellons to what happened at the end of his baseball career.
    He don’t (SIC) want excuses made for him. He doesn’t want people saying, “That’s why he couldn’t throw that fastball.”
    (VO) But Brandi thinks there may be a link.
    Because all of a sudden it was like, “Brandi, I can’t throw a ball to save my life. What is happening?”
    (OC) Did he get the open lesions the way you did?
    Well, no, but he has, like, bumps all over him that he scratches, and he developed, just acne, you know? But he had the stuff coming out of his skin, the black stuff.

  107. Sean, I had a comment typed out to you, and my cat, who has a habit of keyboard pouncing, made me lose it just as I was ready to submit it. I see you’ve covered most everything, since then, anyway. You already know, then, firsthand, that when a person goes to a doctor appointment alone, without witnesses, they’ll say that the doctor said things that ain’t necessarily so. Plus, you hinted that your mom has always had a pattern, so that is not at all unusual, I’m sad, and sorry to say.

    Now, for my sweetie. MAFer, do you have any musculoskelatal problems?

  108. TC, Hi and thanks for the push. I was tested here in Dallas at local hospital and it was Neg. but I’ve always heard that the only two labs that did the proper testing. One was the IGeneX Lab?
    and that Bowen one (which I heard killed someone, I did!) but hell, it’s not like I’m going there. So you think I should have it tested at one of these for Lyme? I will if you think I should. I had read where the key to kicking Lyme is catching it in the first stages….and so I thought to self, well, what the hell good would it do me now, a year later? Does anyone think the insurance laws/procedures re: :Lyme Disease will change now that it is in 46 states?

    Texas Rose….I looked at you link with the lymephotos..on the one with the starshaped larvae…..I had always wondered what in the hell that could have been…..I had 3 or 4 of them appearing on my beige carpet that weekend the that the electomagnetication film -directed by Stephen King came into my home last year….scared the hell out of me! Now here is a photo of what I found. The National Science Foundation says it’s just ameoba but they are a Gov’t organization, so who the hell knows if what they say is true. It’s prob. the opposite.

    The second photo is that damn wasp larvae egg I have gotten out of my skin before….except this one for some reason has been stained blue. Mine were Orange…(kidding) mine were white but looked just like this.

  109. Sean, that did not come out right. And I see it didn’t. I sound like an ass, and didn’t mean to. I just don’t know a way that you could broach the topic of going with your mother to a doctor, plus, you would have to get excused from work to do it. At her age, she is, no doubt, a fairly independent lady, and I don’t know what you could do. Are her parents still living? Do you suspect her friend is a drug user?

  110. There’s an interesting article on Morgellons in Nature, which is by far the most prestigious mainstream science mag that has written on this:

    I think it’s subscribers only at the moment, so here’s some snippits:

    The [CDC] plans to first define Morgellons with a set of criteria that distinguishes it from other illnesses. “It is likely that for many of these people, they can be helped through another case definition,” says Dan Rutz, a CDC spokesman.

    Rutz is being diplomatic.

    Most dermatologists deny the disease exists, saying the people who claim to suffer from it have either common skin illnesses or psychological disorders such as delusional parasitosis, in which people become irrationally convinced that they harbor parasites. In such disorders, people often have lesions, but those are caused by the patients’ own scratching and picking.

    “Such patients are a challenge to help and to treat,” he says. “They want to be believed above all and tend to be socially isolated.” Scheinfeld says the Internet has helped those with parasitic delusions to band together and reinforce each others’ beliefs.

    Wymore usually works on potassium channels but is now planning to investigate the nature of the fibers, which he says are quite unlike those from textiles. “This is quite a mystery,” he says. “It is both intellectually intriguing and frightening. We cannot be so intellectually arrogant as to believe there is nothing new under the sun.”

    I’m sure the readers of Nature will appreciate being told to keep their intellectual arrogance in check.

  111. Thanks Michael! Hell yeah we will (just joking here!)

    I still say bullshit that no one knows what the friggin lil fibers are….in fact, this is the honest to God truth, I just came back to the blog to post what I found today re: fibers. No, I do not have any idea if I’m right or not on this one. But I have looked until I can’t look any longer.

    Here is is: the SPME Fibers and/or the PBDE fibers

    [PDF] SPME 2000- September Carlos Lopez Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – View as HTML
    fruits were used as samples, and extractions with SPME fibers coated with … detection and analysis of ignitable liquid residues extracted from human skin … – Similar pages

    [PDF] No Job NameFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat – View as HTML
    ing dried saliva stains swabbed from human skin using fluores-. cence spectroscopy is presented … The use of SPME in forensic toxicology has been reviewed … – Similar pages

    now, I dunno for sure or not but hey, I’m trying! And , they are flame retardant too


  112. London, “read twice, write once”.

    If you read the articles you post a couple of times before you post them, you would realize which are relevent, and which are not, and save us the trouble, and stop people getting annoyed at you.

    SMPE fibers are no more significant than paintbrush fibers. If you read about them, you will understand why.

  113. I’m sure the readers of Nature will appreciate being told to keep their intellectual arrogance in check.

    I do try, God knows.

    But, really, even though I do think Wymore has the best of intentions, I simply do not see how his vast expertise in ion channel research can possibly translate to authority in dermatology, psychology or especially in identifying pathogens.

  114. I know discussions on religion & politics get overly heated, so I won’t go there. Moving right along…

    I’m not saying this is anything other than some just some interesting reading (whoa) on lyme disease & syphilis. If anybody just enjoys reading, I mean. Excuse me for being off topic, but, you know, there is a lot of controversy with lyme, to begin with, plus it’s got that link they’ve tried tying in with “morgellons disease”. I don’t recommend this as anything other than for reading pleasure.

  115. Smiley, from your article:

    “A method to utilise physiognomy in homeopathy has recently been developed by Australian homeopath Grant Bentley.”

    What will they think of next!

  116. Michael… self surgery?… if lancing an absess and removing a 3.5 inch fiber is self surgery, then yes, i did…

    smileykins… musculoskelatal problems?… not that i am aware of… could you be more specific there hotpants?…

    sean… billy koch’s story was not covered by mainstream sports because of the implication of any story connected with morgellons disease… morgellons disease, and stories relating to morgellons disease are not covered by mainstream anything… at least not until primetime live… this does not mean that he didn’t or doesn’t have it… blissful ignorance for the masses (sheeple)… that’s all…

  117. Billy Koch was going to be the “Celebrity Face of Morgellons”. Losing him must have been a major disappointment.

  118. Gosh Michael, you could have at least given me some praise for identify the picture…(page 14, that was funny!)

    So what did happen to Brandi Koch? Is she still on the board? What happened to Ms. Mary? Is she in jail yet? > and I’m not intentionally being ugly, for I don’t even know that it happened. If I did, I would then be ugly.

    Jeeze, you make me chuckle….

    Sean and MAFer,
    This disease will NEVER be in the mainstream media unless it has first been accepted and proclained by the gov’t that it is a disease. Hell, they made it so I don’t see the mainstream happening anytime soon.

    Also, guess who/what Co. owns most of the networks?

    Why it’s Generao Electric. Have you seen their list of clones, whew!

    Also, not to bash Cliff and Jan and the gang, honestly not, but if they keep going on those same two or three stations to braodcast, well, there you go….not going to get covered

    in detail again! I used to love the jeff rense show….thought he was so “onto” the gov’t's clandestine trickery. and he was….that is until that pharmacuetical Co. started wining and dining him….

    Coast 2 Coast…..again, Ken Cowles has the reign on that one- I do not remember how….stock, ownership, just what it was, but I do remember reading it.

    and time/warner? Well, does anyone know if Ms.Mary’s friend Cheryle Warner is in this family? Or, is she from the pharmaceutical mogel family. >whatever, that chicko is weird.

    Here;s the 100 question of the hour??? Why did the MRF change their Sponser listings? I mean one of them is just vanished…..hehehehe tell me now that that sorry arse organization is not covering up this disease…..yeah she said build it and they will come, but she was smart enough t know when to get out of there too! Oh, I do intend to follow up on her crime-(IF THERE EVEN WAS ONE)…..THEN WE ALL WILL SEE…..



    so Michael, could you please investigate the disapperance of the MRF sponser they had up until 4 weeks ago???? I would appreciate that.

  119. I just have one question, did the doctor diagnose her with Morgellons, or claim that her syptoms or those that represent Morgellons? [] I am wondering if Greta could shed some light on what her actual diagnosis is, and maybe point Mom in the right direction without arguing again about Morgellons.

    I had seen my doctor about ten times before the “diagnosis.”

    He listened and listened, and upon my persistent insistence that he look at the that I had a fiber I claimed was in my leg, he did – with the dermascope. He rolled his eyes and said it was just a black fiber from my black pants (this was in late January 2006). He got out an abrasive alcohol swab and scrubbed the area and announced it was gone. I said, “Oh really? Look again.” He looked again – it was still there – had not budged. He scrubbed again, still there. I pleaded with him to remove it. He got out the tweezers and tried to get it out of my skin, he made me bleed, but was unable to remove it. He said it might just be a hair, a black hair (i have blond hair), that was sideways and did not appear to have a root. He said “you win” He said it was adherent and he needed help removing it. This is when he sent me to the first dermatologist.

    At the next appointment with him, I told him he was wrong – that it was not hair. I told him I suspected that I had fibers in each of my lesions, even though I could not see the ones on my face. He examined my lesions and skin very carefully with the dermascope. He said he could see a fiber or black speck at the base of every single one of my lesions. He could also see black spots in my skin all over where there were no lesions.

    He did not know what to make of it – he said nothing grows fibers like this. It is impossible to have these fibers in skin. He asked me to consider that either we are both hallucinating or I am experiencing a brand new unknown disease, and he highly doubts the later, as he is a specialist in rare diseases and has never come across anything remotely like this in his 27 years of practice. He could not imagine that it could be anything else than bizarre ingrown hairs embedded in my skin. I told him that he was wrong, but that I was willing to consider it was hair if I could see the fiber under a microscope and see all the hair parts – the cuticle, the cortex, and the pigment.

    It took him several weeks to “remember” to bring me his microscope, but he did. I took it home on March 2, 2006. I took a piece of tape, applied it to a lesion and pulled out a fiber and looked at it under the big microscope. It had none of the features of a hair, no cuticle, no cortex, and it was blue.

    For the first time, I went to internet for answers regarding my nightmare. It was 11:02 PM. I googled, “fibers embedded in skin.” The first site that came up was

    The images looked exactly like what I had. I was astounded. This was the first I’d heard of Morgellons. I sent the link to my doctor – announcing my diagnosis. When he got the message the next day, he went to the site and said he thought he was looking at photos of my skin – it looked exactly like mine. He was astounded. He wrote me back saying that he thought my diagnosis was correct. He prescribed me Doxycycline and Ketoconazole cream that Friday. He scheduled a dermatologist to take a biopsy on Monday. He was sure he could figure this all out within a week.

    The doxy healed my lesions so quick that by Monday at 9:00 AM, I had no lesions suitable for a biopsy (except for on my face, but they refused to biopsy my face).

    He has concluded that I have an infestations of fibers, but remains open to the possibility that this may just be a powerful illusion.

    He has no reason to believe Morgellons is a “disease,” as he has no evidence that it is causing organ failure. He also suspects that all the symptoms attributed to Morgellons, other than the fibers, are psychosomatic.

    Six months later and we have not made much progress, but are still trying. He promises not to give up. We will get to the bottom of this.

  120. Oh, “hotpants”!! What a coincidence. Hehehe, my kid called me up last night, tellin’ me to turn on the tube and watch a 70s’ hits’ infommercial and I got so tickled at the hotpants outfits on there. (I know, duzn’t take much to amuse me.) MAFer, I mean do you have any aches & pains, from stiffness, or inflammation, involving your joints or muscles?

    Michael, I have had myself looking (what I’d thought), to be really well, before. I’ve been all fixed up, smiling from ear to ear, ignoring my pain and physical limitations, and encountered, “Oh, you poor thing, I know you feel terrible, I can just tell from looking at you. You look just awful.” Hehehe, I didn’t feel that way at all, and luckily, have never have been easily influenced by anyone.

    But, now, just imagine someone running a clinic and saying “that” to people!! OMG, ya know?!


  121. I have very happy news today. My dad’s doctor just phoned and said he actually does not have Alzheimer’s after all. He has a subclinical, chronic thiamine deficiency, which is treatable.

    Just goes to show that the some things are far simpler than they appear.

    (omg I am so happy!)

  122. London, the text that was removed (when Holman, et al, left) was:

    “Our sincere gratitude to SeaChange International For our first Corporate Donation.
    Thanks to all the folks at SeaChange for their support..! “

    I guess that corporate donation just never happened.

    Seachange is a big company ($100 Million+ yearly revenue). I’m sure they would have a record, you could ask them:

  123. Greta, the fact that one black fiber could not be removed, even though it made you bleed, and the other blue fiber was easily removed with a bit of tape makes me think they were different types of fiber. In fact I’d suspect that one was an ingrown hair, and then other a bit of blue lint.

    Which single photo most resembles your condition?

  124. Sean0W2

    I am in a similar situation as you and would love to hear from others like us as to how they handle it.
    What would a psychologist/psychiatrist say? Play along with the delusion or confront the sufferer with the facts and risk their rath?

  125. Hey guys, I’m in central time and if you are too, turn your TV on ABC….last story was about the black holes and next, it’s Man against Machines…..

  126. Texasstar Sez:


    Actually, it’s not a hypothesis statement. A hypothesis statement would be “the study aims to investigate the delusional states of participants through measures of X, Y, and Z.” Or, “The study aims to assess the causative agents of X symptoms through Y tests.”

    I’m also generally unimpressed with lame insults. I find people get defensive and use insults and various forms of abuse when they have no actual argument or stance. *yawn* but you’re still highly entertaining. :)

  127. This worked good enough for me, when I was in a delusional state for a couple of months, four years ago. A couple of my family members saw some strange subcutaneous movements I had, which were really there, and said, “Let’s not talk about it”. Later, they saw some copius exudates that came out of my wrist, and hands, covering everything I touched, and said, “Let’s not talk about it”. I did try and share, with my daughter once, what happened when I put some stuff into a basin of water, and nothing happened, just as luck would have it (I’d thought), and we just laughed it off.

    “Let’s not talk about it”, to me, was a good indication not to. So, I didn’t. I didn’t want to bother anyone with it, and risk endangering our relationship. Visiting my daughter, one day, when black liquid and specks ate thru a band-aid, covering a cut on my hand, she said, “Mom, I’m sorry, you’re making a mess, and you need to go home.” Standing and talking to my mother, one time, I’d felt the familiar sensation of something being expelled from my thigh, underneath my skirt. I nonchalantly put it into a paper towel, saying nothing, and discarded it into the trash. Curiosity got the best of her, and I just politey reminded her, that I wasn’t to talk about it. She was downright funny, getting it out of the trash, and looking at whatever it was, with a magnifying glass and a toothpick. She looked at that harder than I did anything. I didn’t own a microscope nor bother my skin.

    I progressed into becoming more ill, but still, I didn’t talk about it. Everybody came and went, and we visited as always, and even though I was a little concerned that I may have had something contagious, I told myself not to think that way. I worsened, but I had a physical condition causing my problems. I saw some freaky things going on, but I just held on for the ride, as hard as it was. After I restored my health (which was not easy), the delusional state, which had developed into halluncinations, just stopped. It stopped dead in its tracks, too, as I continued putting myself through some strenuous health measures to accomplish my goal of getting better.

    Good luck, and just say, “don’t talk about it”, maybe, for anybody who’s going through something similar?

  128. “This is quite a mystery,” he says. “It is both intellectually intriguing and frightening. We cannot be so intellectually arrogant as to believe there is nothing new under the sun.”

    What a dork. It’s a 400 year old misunderstanding of skin functioning, called, “morgellons disease”.

    Get into a time machine and go back to the future.

    Commencing countdown, helmets on.

  129. A whole lot of stuff is way easier to deal with, rather than postulating a whole new disease.

    My da was properly diagnosed today with a thiamine deficiency and was given one massive dose of thiamine and all of a sudden he’s the humorous, playful, sharp-witted man I’ve known and loved all my life.

    It does not have to be complicated.

  130. Weezie, that is so far out awesome!!! I’m overjoyed for you and your dad!!!

  131. Actually Sarah B. None of your examples are hypothesis statements. they are examples of titles of studies. An hypothesis statement is simple, direct and predicts an outcome as related to cause and effect.

    Radish seeds placed in a moist medium will have a higher germination rate than radish seeds placed in a medium void of moisture.

    The null hypothesis to be accepted or rejected would be; radish seeds placed in a moist medium will not have a higher germination rate than radish seeds placed in a medim void of moisture.

    The title of such a study would be; what is the effect of moisture on the germination rate of radish seeds?

    Of course the pseudosciences are not as grounded in emperical studies as are the true sciences, thus the prefix pseudo.

    I am glad you say you are having an entertaining experience here. I know you having a learning experience.

  132. Weezie, that is so far out awesome!!! I’m overjoyed for you and your dad!!!

    Haha omg my Dad is eating everything in sight and suddenly remembers EVERYTHING over the past 20 years.

    I may regret this ;)

  133. Thanks, Smiley, I am also overjoyed tonight. Bit I am afraid my Dad might remember what a horrible daughter I have been ;)

  134. London,

    I wasn’t aware of the fact that you have been previously tested for lyme, and that the test was negative. Have you been diagnosed with Rheumatoid arthritis? And, are you taking your medication for it?

    I can only tell you you what I would do if I were in your shoes. If I had received a diagnosis for RA. First, I would follow the advice my Rheumatologist and I would just treat what I knew I had, unless my doctor suggested I have additional tests. You do need to take whatever meds you have been prescribed. And you also need to listen to your eye doctor.

    In my opinion, you need to forget about Morgellons disease. I don’t believe there is such a thing, but you could reserve judgement until you hear from the CDC, if you prefer. Personally, I think that it is unnecessary stress.

    Tall Cotton

  135. TexasStar,

    Actually, you’re still incorrect. My examples are called explorative study, where little is known. It’s a basic type of research one would have to do about a little-known topic, such as Morgellons. Aha, right? ;)

    “The study aims to assess the causative agents of lyme disease through western blots.”

    What happened to the all-caps?

  136. Jeeezlouise,

    Congrats on your dad’s health improvement, and to you.

    Tall Cotton

  137. Tex, get critical on Wymore’s ass, why don’t ya.

  138. Whoa, Dad just came over and wanted to talk about my kids. Yesterday, he didn’t even know that I am one of his kids.

  139. Jeeezlouise, that’s astonishingly excellent news! What are you doing on here? Go talk to your dad! :)

  140. Tell your dad that the other kids are his too.

  141. I’m moved to tears, on that, JeezeLouise. It makes me consider how many other people may just let things go, assuming something else is the matter. That would have to feel like nothing short of a miracle, and it’s so good to hear such wonderful news.

  142. TC and Smiley, thank you so much for your kind words.

    I would say it’s a miracle, but then I’d have the Morgies all over me.

    It’s not a miracle, it’s a loving family member making completely objective observations, resulting in a proper diagnosis.

    Frankly, it looked like Alzheimer’s, and that would have been the diagnosis if he’d had no one saying otherwise.

    The problem with Morgellons is that the loving family members saying otherwise are perceived to be the enemy.

    It really can be very simple.

  143. Michael, my da needs to sleep! :)

  144. in the true sciences an exploratory study is dunn as part of the observation phase of the scientific method of problem solving which comes before an hypothesis statement written. So it seems that morgellons research is still at the observation level.

    In the true sciences you will see very few such studies in publication. But the psychology journals are full of them. You know publish or perish.

    Seems like we are trying to compare prime rib to fruit salad.

  145. Michael, you know how much I have done to be close to my da over the last few months. Tonight, I am celebrating!

  146. Texastar, the point is that “You’re not delusional.” is neither a hypothesis, not a description of a study. It’s a statement of belief. Like “I believe these people are not delusional, and I intend to prove it”. He’s not saying, “if we find a cause for the fibers, then it indicates not everyone with these fibers is delusional”, he’s saying “I believe you! You are safe with me! I’ll find what’s causing this illness”.

    He’s not even established that there is an illness in the first place. He’s taken huge leaps of reasoning, and is dabbling in an impossibly vague field of possibilities. He is practicing the illusion of science. It looks like science, since he’s performing chemical and DNA tests, wearing a white coat, and looking through a big microscope. But he’s acting no more like a scientist than Mary Leitao.

    First, statistically establish that people who claim to have Morgellons are different to other similar people. That’s science, it establishes a firm basis and context for future studies.

    Talk to your peers, ask them to be frank. Talk to people with actual expertise in the areas of dermatology and psychology. Talk to some more well seasoned physicians.

    You are building glass castles in the air. Lay some foundation, and start using stone.

  147. OMG I never have to watch “Pearl Harbor” again.

    Life is good :)

  148. Won’t you have to watch it one more time? :)

  149. Jeeezelouise,

    Those eyes and ears that you made those observations with are miracles in themselves. Our Father also gave you the heart to care for your da. It’s a miracle!! It’s all a miracle!! Let ‘em get pissed off if they want to. Like you said, it’s a time to celebrate.

    Tall Cotton

  150. The goofball has said, also, that his research will lead them to a cure. He is not a “respectable doctor” and I don’t give a hoot what anyone else thinks about it, he ain’t. It’s a real pity that someone like Tex, that’s so nit pickingly critical, can’t apply it where it’s needed.

  151. Dammit, yeah, one more time because Da doesn’t remember the last 67 times we watched it.

    Still, happy days at my house!

  152. smelikens said:


    I guess I just did above. He seems to be still in the observation stage of researching this. but lots of people have now heard of morgellons. but, how long, oh lord, how long.

  153. TC, thank you so much for your kind words. I think it’s important that folks realize sometimes the people who love you are observing things that you might reject, but are important to your health.

    I do think I’ve shot myself in the foot. When my newly healthy dad moves away, I’m going to have to find someone else to tend my yard ;)

  154. Smiley, thank you. If anyone knows what it’s like, to greet a loved one back from the dead, it’s you.

    I think Da wants poached eggs in the morning. Dammit.

  155. Check out the pic from the nature article, at the top of the google results

    look familiar?

  156. Uhm, I am still seeing blue?

  157. Thank Heaven, for little girls…

    Every little breeze that seems to whisper Louise….

    Sorry, ya got me singin’ over here, I’m so happy. :)

  158. And in that article:

    Most dermatologists deny the disease exists, saying the people who claim to suffer from it have either common skin illnesses or psychological disorders such as delusional parasitosis, in which people become irrationally convinced that they harbor parasites. In such disorders, people often have lesions, but those are caused by the patients’ own scratching and picking.

    “There really is no scientific basis at this point to believe that this is real,” says Stephen Stone, president of the American Academy of Dermatology.


    At least one scientist—albeit not an expert in the field—is taking it seriously. Morgellons patients have masses of dark fibers visible at times 60 magnification under the unbroken skin, while unaffected individuals do not, says Randy Wymore, assistant professor of pharmacology at Oklahoma State University. “That took away any possibility that this was not a real thing,” Wymore says.

    If Wymore is so sure the evidence is unequivicable, then why does he not simply produce this evidence?

    If he cannot produce it, he has NO basis for his black and white claims.

  159. Blue what? You been at the tequila again? ;)

  160. Sorry, ya got me singin’ over here, I’m so happy.

    Thank you! You have no idea how happy I am :) Tonight, I made pesto with sun dried tomatoes, fresh basil, and toasted almonds, tossed with angel hair pasta Then I set up the table really nice, candles and all, for myself and my son, ma and da. Da said, what’s the occasion? I said, your good health.

    Then he proceeded to devour 3 plates of pasta, and entertained us all with his life history.

    It is truly frelling amazing, how quickly a vitamin deficit can be turned around.

    Thanks again!


  161. Michael Says:
    August 30th, 2006 at 10:47 pm
    Blue what? You been at the tequila again?


    Shoot, there’s some tequila left?

  162. I recognize that picture. Do I get $20?

  163. i told those losers at lymbusters i would post here when i did not join their what ever it was and guests were disallowed—
    i have followed allong for several months now
    and now london is here too
    this place is as wacky as the other but on the other side of the dellusion
    this is the sensible idea that i tried to present to the sufferers
    of which i am one—
    fibers and all
    i try and keep it simple for the feeble minded and this is only my personal experience
    before a parisite can be delusional it must be defined
    parisites are not just bugs and worms–they are also bacteria-viruses-fungi-protzoa-and anything else that requires a host
    8 months before i ever heard of morgellons it was written in a derm DR report i had DOP
    this DR told me i had an infection
    from a bug bite did not say what the infection was
    2 DRs gave me topical meds for scabies even though they said i didnt have scabies
    2 more different DRs put me on deworming meds and one presciption
    was changed by CDC
    1 of these DRs was playing the DOP
    card this DR also did a punch
    byopsy that had unkown fiber in it
    and scraped blue lint balls off my body after showering and air drying naked –said it was lint
    by this time i was theatening mal-practice (is a rolled up ball
    of skin fibers called lint???)
    iguess lint is lint regardless of
    its origin
    yet 1 more DR did blood test or filiria worms that came back NEG
    but stated in a closed door he and me only appointment i had an
    infection and lesions were caused by dying organisims–they counted 80-100 lesions at the time
    all this time i never heard of or mentioned morgellons–i just wanted to be healthy again
    i had been sent home from work twice for fear (theirs) that i may be contaigous
    all DR visits were done through referal of my primary DR who is an MD with a degree in psyciatry
    he stated that DRs with DOP
    rx were quacks
    at this time i went on full disability as i could no longer funtion doing day to day tasks
    about 2 months later i found the MRF info
    the linl to lyme seemed relavent
    so we (my DR and i tested )through normal hospital lab for lyme
    2 x the test was NEG
    i researched the lyme testing
    history and the mystery of lyme as a complex disease in general
    i shared this info with my DR
    we then found out about Igenex and Bowen R I—we chose Bowen
    the thst came back POS to the highest level of Bb infection
    i have been on a variety of
    abx for 18 months now with slow and steady improvemnt of many of the symtoms–i have changed my diet and lifestyle habits–even with the improvements my recent
    bowen test was still at the highest level of infection
    i still get lesions and i still have blue fibers -fuzz-lint
    why is it such a FUCKING mystery that
    (ACA or dermitis from Bb) causes
    an unusual fibrosing of the skin
    when it has been known since the 1860s to do so???????
    the reason a high percentage of so call morgies test pos for Bb is because that is what they FUCKING
    i have Bb -i have fibers-i have lesions-i have CFS-i have arthritis-i have poor balance
    i do not have morgellons and i am not DOP
    i returned to work a year ago and i continue to folow my Drs instructions and i continue to improve slowly
    now lymebusters didnot want to address these reallities what about you numb nuts here on the watch??? what are you watching out for????
    i had the same experience has so
    called morgies and never used or mentioned the word–but i got treated the same and i have Bb
    the one DR that tried to help by refering me to specialist quacks
    has been the only one to work with me through this life changing ordeal
    my take on the whole thin is this—
    Bb can and is known to cause unusual and unknown fibers in and on the skin
    thank for your time if you read this

  164. TC, employees are not eligible for any “Recognize This?!?!” contests. It’s in the manual.

  165. Oh, ya did it to me again, Weezie!! You’re welcome, but my gosh!!

    Really, with Wacko there, I think his mind was/is messed up, and being gullible, and not looking before he leaped, he interpretted “my doctor says it’s all in my head” (which I doubt doctors said, and I’m sorry, but I just do), as meaning there wasn’t anything there. So what, if, like he says, “unaffected individuals do not have masses of dark fibers visible at times 60 magnification under the unbroken skin”. The man is obsessing, pure and simple. In my opinion, he is ill, and if he ever had integrity, he’s lost it.

  166. I wonder if those “masses of dark fibers” were spider veins – yet another associated symptom of menopause.

    And London, please don’t search for “Dark Fiber”, it will just upset you.

  167. eec, you almost sound as frustrated as Bugs & Adapted. (I’m not Mary Sheppard, either. Hehe.) Did ya ever hook up with that yoga instructor?

  168. eec, thanks for sharing your story. Do you think most of the people on LB are basically the same as you, or do you think there’s other stuff going on?

  169. Eec,

    I agree that there’s no such thing as Morgellons Disease. I agree with that, wholeheartedly. I also agree that “some” of the so-called Morgellons sufferers have Lyme Disese. I believe, however, that some do not. What about the fibers? Well, I would say that that depends upon which fibers we are referring to. If Dr. Wymore didn’t forget to turn on the oven, then the fibers he tested withstood 1400 degrees farenheit. I don’t think those fibers were produced by the human body or Borrelia burgdorferi either. I don’t know whether or not “any” fibers found in the “Morgellons” patients are produced by the body or not, but I do think that it’s rather obvious that some of the fibers are ordinary clothing fibers. I also believe that the fire-resistant fibers are likely fiberglass. Cheers to you.

    Tall Cotton

  170. Smiley, given my very fresh experience with my Da, I think a really really BIG problem is that Morgies completely reject what the people who love them are seeing and saying. So they go to the doctor without an advocate who truly cares about them, without someone who has a little notebook of unbiased observations, and then it’s very easy to reject what the doctor has to say. Because, obviously, the doctor does not truly know what’s going on.

    It’s self-perpetuating.

    Everyone needs an advocate, someone who truly cares about their well-being. But when you reject that advocate, preferring to believe yourself a victim of some weird conspiracy, then you are truly alone.

    And, of course, if you are alone, etc etc

  171. Are we non-union?

  172. tallcotton Says:
    August 30th, 2006 at 11:36 pm
    Are we non-union?

    At the moment, yes.

  173. not frustrated –back on the construction site working on 6
    story hospital installing airduct riser shafts that are 10 feet x4 feet welding and hanging off the edge of steel–thats how we tough guys talk-fucking is a verb,noun,and adjective– the fall doesnt kill ya its the sudden stop at the bottom
    i have hooked up with many yogis of the female persuation i have also bcome a certified and licenced massage therapist to rub the yoga girls the right way
    fibers and all business is good
    they all love me Bb and all
    life is good and im closer to the end than i am the beginning
    i dont know who bugs and adapted are here and i dont think i know
    who you were either
    i got nothing else to say–i have
    Bb and it fits the symptoms

  174. I know. I took care of two loved ones, while working full time and raising a child, years ago. Trust is essential. Both of them went on to develop dementia, and they had delirious episodes, each, from different causes. It takes a lot of strategy and careful choices in ways of saying things, when dealing with someone in a state such as that.

    The quick tempers that are prevalent among some morgie people, and their misinterpretations of good intentions, really concern me as to what they treat the people in their lives like. It would not be too easy to try helping someone if they’re having an all out hissy-fit, and it may be easier, or even safer, to walk away. I think some people just emotionally shut down around them, too. Nobody wins, either way, and it sadly leads on to worse things for everyone.

  175. They alter them with a scream. hehehe

  176. Hi there EEC, I was wondering about you when they kicked me off wishing I had your email, now I do! Glad to hear you are okay…

    Dear Gangbangers,

    I just love ya’ll! Even Michael! Lol,

    Thanks for getting back w/ me TC, appreciate it. Even if my leg swelling resides, it always still looks like I have a tennis ball on each ankle. Prescription diuretics won’t even make it go down. What does this mean then- my lyphatic system is blocked? I dunno…..and a year ago today I could do two standing backhandsprings in place dammit, now, It hurts if I have to bend my knees to squat down for anything.

    this sucks rocks!

    Smiley, Hey, just now seeing your Lyme Post and wanted to say thank you very much. I just scanned it but I did save it to “favorites” and will read it in the morning…

    Jeeze, Oh, great news. I’m so very happy for you-whew, what a relief I bet. Now, don’t lie and trick him or anything like TC said to do….(well, maybe just once will be okay.)
    Again, I’m really happy for you.


  177. London, you’re so sweet. When you first came here, I thought you were going to be a pit bull. Really, I did. You’re just a little poodle puppy. Get to a rheumatologist. RA is destructive, woman, and you need immunosuppressive meds, and, I hate to say it, probably that dastardly prednisone, too. Try keeping those tootsies elevated as much as you can, too. TC & I wouldn’t steer ya wrong.

  178. Congrats Jeeze, that is great news. Just please send some of that pasta to Philly so I can get some.

    EEC, I enjoyed your story, and I hope it can encourge other Morgies to keep looking for the right answer, instead of waiting around for the CDC and Wynmore to come up with one.

  179. Hello again eec,

    I always tend to think that Morgellons is Lyme, as I believe many others do too. As you explained, many tests aren’t accurate tests for Lyme, but since most docs don’t know this, we’re stuck. I recently woke-up with an abcess the size of a golf-ball. My doc put me on Doxy, the preferred antibiotic for Lyme I’ve learned, and guess what–I feel really, really good. Finally. No itchy scalp (after two years of it!), few to no fibers, no urge to lay down an hour after waking in the morning, back to a happy demeanor. I don’t know what Morgellons is but the collection of symptoms are real, and some medications DO help. Eec, if fibrosing skin conditions were so well known, why wouldn’t that have been the first avenue of investigation for our docs?

    BTW, Savely isn’t the greedy capitalist you portray Michael. She doesn’t charge a dime for consultations. I’ll learn more about her approach next month.


  180. Good Morning everybody!
    I am not sure who stated this but I really don’t want to scroll back and find who – not enough coffee yet this morning :-)

    “”"Billy Koch was going to be the “Celebrity Face of Morgellons”. Losing him must have been a major disappointment.”"”

    Here’s to set the record about Mr. Koch – The Koch’s contacted Mary to ask some questions – JUST questions about morgellons – but, she went into over drive. Which in turn Cowles the Media Director did too. After the Koch’s contact with the MRF, which they live in Florida but Mr. Koch’s parents live around New York part of the USA. Who else lives in that area? Mr. Cowles!!! Mr. Koch’s parents found themselves with reporters all over their front door step asking them questions about “Your son and Morgellons…..” which in turn the parents were say “the what?” they had no idea what the heck was going on because the Koch’s were ONLY asking QUESTIONS to MRF at that time. Now how did the reporters all of a sudden show up on their door step so fast? Ya’ll can put 2 and 2 together on that one. But it TRUELY was a Low handed dirt Trick Mary and Cowles did – no wonder Mr. Koch said NO THANKS MRF!!!!!!!!

    Yes Seachange was removed from the MRF website when Mr. Holman resigned. There was no request for it to be removed by anybody but since Mr. Holman works for Seachange the MRF took the matter into their hands and removed it! Seachange was the MRF “first” corporate donation, which I am sure Seachange is wondering why they were removed. I personally think the MRF has insulted Seachange with this removal.

  181. BTW, Savely isn’t the greedy capitalist you portray Michael. She doesn’t charge a dime for consultations. I’ll learn more about her approach next month.

    The first hit is free. I think Savely genuinely cares for her patients. But she also makes money from them because she’s pushing a highly dubious diagnosis, and then selling them expensive follow-up treatments and phone consults.

    Regardless of if Morgellons is real or not, lots of delusional people think they have it, and could very easily become patients of Savely, which would make them initially happy, but is not in their long term health or financial interests.

  182. Yes Michael, Morgellons is a dinner ticket for many a charlatan. We always need to be cautious in any circumstance but especially when we are vulnerable. I’ve yet to go bankrupt over this illness, and I don’t intend to. I was raised by stingy Dutch immigrants. We don’t part with our money easily.

    “Lots of delusional people think they have it”

    I don’t think you are in a position (nor is anyone else on this blog) to decide who is or is not delusional. In many cases, those diagnosis, based on nothing but an opinion that fibers can’t come out of skin, can be so easily disputed.

    I’ll consider Savely’s approach under the care of the doctor I trust with the bills being paid by the insurance designed to cover my medical expenses. I can appreciate Savely’s experience in this arena, but I am ultimately the one who must live with the result. I have to examine her approach critically as well. That said, I really like how I felt after taking the doxy. Suddenly, life looks a little less bleak.


  183. No, I don’t get to decide. But it seems clear that at least a percentage of the morgellons believers are mistaken in their belief. What would you say, 5%, 10%? Even 5% is at least 250 people. I’d call that “lots”.

    I glad to hear you are feeling better on the doxycycline. Was that a just a speculative treatment, or specifically to target your Lyme?

  184. Jeeeze,

    Is your Dad still feeling his improvement today? (Thursday)

    Tall Cotton

  185. TC, thanks for asking!

    Holy cow, he’s actually …. BORED!! Now that he’s got some mental clarity, he’s BORED!! He hasn’t been bored in months ;)

    He was up bright an early this morning, with a little carb hangover, though. All that pasta last night went to his head ;)

    He’s mowed the yard, trimmed the roses, walked the dog, fixed a leaky faucet, and now he’s BORED. I’m going to drop him down at our restaurant and let my husband teach him to toss pizza ;)

    Thank you for asking!

  186. Jeeze,

    Excellent news!! Thanks for responding.

    Tall Cotton

  187. texasrose said:


    huh? I think i remember reading, maybe in some of Cliff’s ramblings, that Mr. Holman got fired from seachange some time ago. But then again you know how rumors get stretched far beyond the truth sometimes. I guess you can hear anything. So texassrose please correct this rumor if it is wrong.

  188. I’d like to clear something up. I don’t encourage anyone to ever debride skin wounds, or to go ever go digging into their skin, creating a wound, for ANY reason! I have always tried to discourage scratching when communicating with any morgies. Digging around is a very hazardous and permanently disfiguring thing to do, and I’m sorry if I was misleading in my comments to MAFer yesterday. Anything that’s in our skin, that’s meant to come out, will. I know firsthand, that crystallized, splinter-like objects are extremely painful. When he’d said:

    tell me Michael… have you ever had a sliver in your hand or finger… do you just let it fester, let it become infected?… would you be ok with letting it heal?… no picking… will your brain allow this sliver to remain in your body for good?…

    I thought he was talking about a sliver being a hard, mineralized deposit, like with calcinosis, or something similar, which I’m familiar with. I’m sorry if any misunderstandings occurred, when I said:

    Next time, go to a doctor and have it removed, if you can’t remove it properly, without a lot of tissue destruction in the process. How’s that for an option, MFer? There are alternative ways to encourage the removal of painful crystalized formations in skin.

    I recommnended a doctor’s assistance, first. Assuming I would be ignored, as is customary by the members of the the morgie community that I’m familiar with, I’m sorry for not going into detail, to clarify what I meant by an alternative, non tissue damaging method. I recommend, always, getting healthy and pampering our skin. Gentle & regular exfoliation, applying moist heat, and maybe covering a place up with drawing salve, was all I’d meant, and I should have explained myself, regardless of any past, failed efforts. People just can not harm their skin, REGARDLESS of what reasons they feel justifies it, and expect a doctor to not see the self-destruction. Any layperson can see when something is self-inflicted. That has to be a most dreadful experience, and I do not recommend it!

    Now, for that sweet man, and, when he said:

    acute perivascular inflamation with substantial fibrous growth of unknown etiology blah blah blah blah… this of course is pretty much equivilant to no diagnosis at all… and, without a lab diagnosis (irregardless of the clinical aspect)…

    Sugarlumps, that right there, and a slightly elevated IgM level, is what old Smileykins would have the doctor further investigate, just like I’d get them to pinpoint why Greta always has an elevated TNFa. Things are more than just skin-deep.

  189. Just a thought on broken capillaries…When I went through “my own (sort of) morgie spell” in 2002, prior to ever hearing of anything called, “morgellons disease”, among other things, I lost some longstanding spider veins from my legs. A severe exfoliative state occurred to me, from a very bad, progressive case of dehydration and heat rash, which, then, led on to worse things.

    After a lesion, or a wound occurs, through a process known as angiogenesis, new capillaries “sprout” to increase oxygen to the wound to heal it. If one has healthy, iron-rich, “oxygenated” blood, of course, they might not even have a skin problem to begin with. Oxygen-starvation is not going to result in good health. Most of us should use sublingual vitamin B12 supplement to promote healthy red blood cells. Iron is good, but I much prefer B12.

    There are so many things that come into play with our bodily processes (leaving out the infections, disorders and diseases, that people already have), that have to be taken into consideration. One thing leads to another, and another, and so on, and so forth. There is no “morgellons disease”. People with chronic fatigue are likely to be anemic, as well as to have reduced circulation, due to lack of exercise, and they may be dehydrated, as well.

    Those very simple, basic, factors are all things that need to be acknowledged, and addressed, for everyone wanting to be healthy. If you don’t want to be healthy, but would rather remain blind to all facts, and deluded, fine then. Be played for a sucker. The thing is, though, it’s obvious that’s not an option, or anything most morgie people even have the slightest amount of control over. That’s precisely where the wrong in all this lies, stringing such terribly vulnerable people along. They need someone strong enough in their personal lives to get them on track, if they can’t face up to things.

    Normal cellular function is IMPOSSIBLE without taking these things into consideration. Everything slows down, anyway, as we age, not to mention slowed down digestive processes, which, without adequate nutrition, water, and exercise, alone, will cause a toxic state, showing up in our skin. All these simple things tie into one another, and an unhealthy body on the inside, shows on the outside, in our skin. Cell renewal relies on all of these things to be in proper balance. I’m sure that everything each and every morgie person has, is treatable. Most dermatologists know their stuff, as well as well as other doctors. If mental health care was first on the agenda, for anybody, and following through with it was neglected, or ignored, bodies are going to pay for it, from increasingly worsening states of mind. That’s what ends up resulting in lives being destroyed by “morgellons disease”.

    Anyway, back to my thoughts on broken capillaries…When blood no longer pumps through tiny capillaries and their walls weaken, they lose their elasticity and they can’t return to their normal size after dilation. Then they collapse and become visible on the skin’s surface. Now, that is a fact, but I’ll venture to say (as I’ve also mentioned before), that red, blue, and black fibers, that “may not” be environmental, as Wymore proclaims. They “could be” broken capillaries; red, from blood, blue, from hypoxia, and black, from necrosis. Regardless of what they are, this whole matter is sickeningly absurd, and the burden of proof is on Wacky Wymore. People needed someone in their corner a long time ago, in their personal lives to help persuade them into treating whatever they were diagnosed with, or they’d never have fallen prey to this myth.

    Abrasive cleansers and facial scrubs, alcohol, caffeine, certain drugs, cold weather, harsh cosmetics, extreme changes in temperature, forceful massage, harsh winds, overexposure to the sun, rough handling of the skin, spicy foods and stimulants can contribute to or cause broken capillaries. Protecting skin in cold or windy weather and treating it gently can help to prevent broken capillaries. I know that some of the practices morgies are into can’t be stopped and it’s way worse than just rough handling.

    Excellent article on aging skin and the molecular aspects:

  190. Surfin’ around, I just read that a non-toxic dye, that’s a photosensitizer, when combined with low intensity visible light, in the presence of oxygen, combine to produce cytotoxic species. So then, I went back to that above link on aging skin, and lookie, lookie, like Greg’s doctor had told him, about his fibers…

    “sun damaged skin”…


    The effects of oxidative stress can be direct or indirect. For example, some cell constituents (flavins, phorphyrin), many dyes (acridines, methylene blue, neutral red) and drugs can act as photosensitizers inside cells. The excited state of a photosensitizer can be thought of as genotoxic species similar to other free radicals, because they can directly or indirectly cause DNA modifications (4). Highly selective changes to guanine are also caused by photosensitizers that modify DNA via singlet oxygen (type II photoreaction), or one-electron oxidation (type I photoreaction) (117-120). Endogenous and exogenous oxidative stress can cause serious damages to mitochondrial DNA. Deletions of mitochondrial DNA may be used as markers of skin ageing and exposure to UV irradiation (121-124). Direct evidence for the increased presence of UV-induced damage in mt DNA was obtained recently. Ray et al (2000) used a PCR method to show that the number of mtDNA deletions in the epidermis is significantly associated with increased exposure to UV radiation. UV radiation may directly or indirectly act via free radicals to cause mutations at labile sites in mtDNA, enhancing intra genome recombination, and increasing deletions. Mutations of mt DNA accumulate during ageing and in photoaged skin; the most common mutation is a 4977 base pair deletion (called common deletion). Chronic exposure of human skin to sunlight results in more mtDNA mutations than in un-exposed skin. UVA-irradiation produces singlet oxygen that generates the common mutations of mitochondrial DNA that occur in photoageing (125).
    It is difficult to precisely measure oxidative DNA damage, because extraction and sample treatment may cause oxidation. Various analytical techniques can be used to measure oxidative damage to DNA: gas chromatography (GC) and liquid chromatography (LC) with mass spectrometry (MS) provide positive identification and accurate quantification. Modified nucleosides have been measured recently by methods using LC/tandem MS (LC/MS/MS) and LC/MS (112).

  191. I’m pretty sure I’ve been possesed by London today. I’ll behave now. Three Dog Night just came in for a concert, and I sure don’t want them here.

    UVA radiation and skin damage

    20-25 years ago not a lot was known about the effects of UVA radiation on human skin and in 1981 A. Kligman wrote that “we have no real knowledge of the skin damage provoked by UVA alone, nor to the extent into which it enhances the destructive action of UVB”. He stated then “That the effects of UV aged skin include mottling, leathery dryness, looseness, wrinkling, loss of elasticity, yellowing, various tumours etc.”

    A. Kligman and L. Kligman in 1986 published data on the histological analysis of human photoaged skin and reported that, “severe photoaged skin has massive amounts of thickened, tangled, degraded elastic
    fibres which eventually dissipate into an amorphous mass. The elastin matrix appears granular and moth eaten. These and other changes do not appear in the “protected” i.e., non-sun exposed skin, even in very
    old people.”

  192. Texas Star

    Correction – you ask:

    “”huh? I think i remember reading, maybe in some of Cliff’s ramblings, that Mr. Holman got fired from seachange some time ago. “”

    NO Mr. Holman was NOT FIRED!!!!!!!! But was hit like most americans at big corporations that are “down sizing” along with something like 50 or 60% of Seachanges field techs.

    Have a great week-end.
    Cheers ya’ll



  194. Not a problem TexasStar – if you need the truth about anybody over at NMO or want the truth about MRF just ask – if I don’t have the answer will get it for you – but I only quote if I have back up evidence not hear say. But with me fix’n to take off for the week-end I don’t really have time to check but will next week – But lololol I “hear” that Seachange did a “recall” lolol on a few of those tech’s and Mr. Holman was in on the “recall” so he is back with them again. Will confirm next week on the his recall.

    See ya’ll Monday

  195. Did Seachange actually give money to the MRF?

  196. Yes Michael – Seachange DID GIVE MONEY to the MRF it was their first corp. donation.

  197. texasrose said alot including:


    yeah you tell cliff the same thing. hearsay is hearsay. and one can throw anything out on the web and raise doubts about an issue or someone. I am sorry you did not get the secretary position at nmo. you or mrsck would have been better than the present one.

    i see change in the streaming of chemtrail today. Can you really read chemtrails like reading chicken bones and tea leaves? May tell of coming attractions.


  199. Hey TexasStar

    Update – Mr. Holman was recalled so he is working for Seachange again.

    “I am sorry you did not get the secretary position at nmo.” WOW DID I MISS A “MEMO” ON THIS? Why didn’t I get it? LOLOLOLOLOL

    Your Way to funny TexasStar – Plus my “rose” in my username if not about a plant but from the song years ago, probably before your time.

  200. before my time???

    you mean like before the 80′s? i guess so!!

  201. I advise all to open their minds and eyes and look up three patents on renova 0.05%, developed by Prof. Albert Kligman, Johnson and Johnson, McNeill Orthor Pharm. Raritan NJ, and Univer of Penn. The patents are 4877805 4423041 4603146 and look up the full view discription it is 8 pages long. The patient insert gives no warning of the dangerous biological chemicals, mircroorganisms, nor chemotheray drugs, (using elecetrons, photons, and metal oxides dipped in flourescent dyes, and flourescent dyed coloured pigments, and flourescent peptides and lipids, lipids lay eyes (bio science uses lipids from fungus spores, spider spores, and silkmoths–criss cross disigns, cyclohexan to make polyethelene tubing at nano scale and now these things are no longer nano size and are infectious to others. They used liposome delivery and lipids release micelles worms shaped like rods, cones, spheres that self assemble (self assemble is a very frightening phrase that is being developed in the biological field and what they are capable of developing and doing to us without our knowledge and authority–then they have physicians who do no tests try to say we are crazy and delussional–at age fifty I know what is a bug, I know what a crawling sensations is I know what photos show and was informed by a prof. photography to put negatives on a film projector and it will show you what’s on you) I know an exterminator came to my house with eye witnesses there and said he never saw anything like in 25 years, he saw them moving, he saw their casings (white glowing fibers configured in the “chair like configuration with the dark tar like substance called copolymer which is in renova as the closest thing to melanin that is in our hair and skin eyes, rectum and blue spot of he brain, look up cyclohexan and you will see it forms chair boat twisted boat half chair configurations out polyethelene which is used to make nylon, they used liquid crystals hydrogel that is almost invisible to the eyes because water and mineral oil make crystals disappear to the eye, they also self assemble with fiber optics wire in them. Look up membrane partitioning and you will see that the chemicals in this cream cause membranes to partition using probes that send back signals on cell changes (who are the signals going to–that’s the answer I want to know) the us army patented this chemical procedure nd used in it the fields using rat synaptisis membranes and fiber optics. the micelles have head groups and tails and form a circular motion spinning on an axis the wiry heads tilt to the side it spin electronics and gel electrolesis moving atoms and particle with gels, they use light waves to deliver oxygen to cells and to radiate them called chemotherapy and toxic chemicals like benzoic acid and butylatedhydroxytoulune that cause oxide clouds and vapors that these organisms travel in and dichloro, chlorine gas are hazardous and cause cancer, these chemicals cause herg pulmonary problems, the silica biogenome used to make bio ceramic glass cuases silicosis and restrictive ventilator defects and herg arrythimia of the heart and sudden death by the electrons and cations and deutrones. titanium was used in this cream and when it becomes bombarded with deutrones it becomes highly radio active causing severe lightening rods and burning the corneas of the eyes, and herg to occur. the chemicals and metals and crytals used causes brain fog short memory loss, fatigue, neuro peripheal toxins, blurred vision, high wbc and nuetrophil count, the chemicals cause horrible sores and dermatitis, every chemical so how are dermatologist selling this product to women in their forties and fifties that have no skin problems and telling them it will prevent wrinkles? How is this being allowed? Why was this patent kept a secrete from the public? Why did the media not help seven years ago and why do they wait to decades later to tell the horror and torment done by pharmaceutical corps. and physicians and fda? Altering genes of insects , bugs, animals, rats, mice and putting them in our medicine knowing they bind to the dna and rna of the human body such as retinoids and lipids and knowing it would be infectious to others
    is bio terroism no matter what anyone says. I know because I have suffered for seven years because of a dermatologist and his colleagues deliberately preventing me from finding out. Last Nov. was our big bread when we found out about Kligman who develped this and who was banned by fda and us army for inhumane guinea pig tests on prisoners and mentally ill pts. We then found the patetns in June and still physicians refuse to do the hair test and urine tests that would prove these chemicals are still active in my body and are infecting my family and friends and co workers. Benzoic acid causes non hodgkins and lymphoma my mother now has it and to have adhesions removed the size of an orange from the chemo, sdhesions are lipids, lipids blow up or swell like a balloon, my 5 yr old niece had acidosis caused by these chemicals and now has juvenile diabetes, my brother has had unknown seizure caused by the electrical currents in this organism that physicians state don’t know why, my other brother has hepaptis these chemicals cause hepatitis, my sister thryoid problems, my children rashes (one doctor stated scabbies, even after my son wouldn’t get better from the two tubes of cream used and we all used, he then tried to have me declared insane and where I had to lose more income going to court appearance and seeing the state’s pyschologist Dr. Alan Lee, Trenton NJ, and where on a plastic cup was the glowing white organism half on the rim half in the water with the crystals attached and created from elastin rubbery elastic from animal feteus and placentas. He asked to see photos of the organism at the same time I notice the cup and pointed to it, show him them on my shoes and skirt, I said what do want me to do with the cup of water, he said pour down the sink, not send it to a lab for test and then does a false evaluation stating I was insane. Physical evidence in front of his eyes and he is a forensic pyschologist. Suddenly the insane case is dismissed last March when morgellons started showing up in the media, which I didn’t know till August when a nurse called me. Another nurse knew and did a pulmonary function test that came back restrictive ventilator defect, by the physician Dr. Robert Perrin stated he did not want to be a witness in a lawsuit and refused to do anymore tests knowing my 16 yr. old with me was suffering and left us both to continue to suffer. My blood work shows it but physicians say they don’t know what tests to do, cat scans show it, but radiologists won’t answer my questions, neutrophils count is hight from silica and metal poisoining and metals cause all kinds of neuro problems, the laser from the light waves and photon are burning the corning the eye physicians knew this and put dry eyes and cob web (floaters), they can see the yellow discharge in the eyes and lesions on the skin but refuse to do a culture or biopsy. Propene causes sores in the mouth that are contagious, which I have, accutane, isotretoin, tegison, and tretinoin all used in this product and hericides. some one needs to investigate and bring bio terrorism charges as I can’t get a physician to help I also can’t get lawyers or gov’t officials to help. I have boxes and boxes of documents and negative responses including cdc and fda and cong. Frank Lobiondo and Rob Andrews, Sen. Hilary Clinton, Ed Kennedy and John Kerry, US Attorney Gen. Christopher Christo and NJ med. examiner William Roeder. One test prooves all-but I am denied that test. Anyone who could help please do. Any biologist with ethics and physicians with ethics that became doctors to save lives not destroy them please let us all know. I sent doc. to osu and have not heard anything in weeks.

  202. Justice. If Renova was the cause of Morgellons, then all that would need to be done to show this would be to ask all the Morgellons sufferes registered with the MRF if they had used Renova.

    What is the denied test you talk about at the end of your post?

  203. Justice,
    To Michael, If you had read, millions around the world use this product, it was never tested on humans, it wasn’t approved until 1996, only a few years before people started having problems. If millions use it around the world and it has infectious miccrorganisms in it and photos show that there is a wiry spidery type of orgranism that has imerged into our society, how do you think things spread, like lice, vd, scabbies. Had my son had scabbies, the physician by law of the public health dept. is suppose to notify the school and the child is not to return to school until a physician certifies that he is not infectious. That did not occur in this case, the school system was never notified and my son was never taken out of school. he had to school with a severe horrible itchy that covered him, that even the dyfs rep. who pulled him out of his classroom when the dermatologist reported me for mental dislussional disorder and asked to see the rash. He was never removed from shool nor other children who had the rash. Don’t you think there’s problem there? Look up laws on public health and welfare. One physician said I had impetigo, another infectious contagious disease, but I wasn’t kept out of work, because it took on six months for sores and rash to leave and then I was left with scars that no one will fix and black and white threads in my lips, cheeks and eyelids, that were visible to coworkers, physicians, and family members. But no one would do biopsy, my corneas are burnt and my eyes to this day have a yellow discharge. Second of all I was a melanoma patient two years before using Renova. No one has even felt the glands in the groin or neck for the spread of the disease, no one has done ekg or eeg or any other normal tests done on women in my age group. A simple hair test tells all, and when nurses try to help a person and no what tests to order and the tests comes back showing a problem and then the physician states I don’t want to be a witness in a lawsuit–my friend we have a huge problem then with our public health care providers.
    It is a physicians duty to rule out all physical entities before stating a patient has mental problems. It is their duty when blood work shows anemia, high wbc, and a nuetrophil count 1500 above
    normal range, don’t you think? Cat scans that show swelling, unusually figures going all the way out to hair and above the head, but no will answer your questions. Why would one physician go to the back office look up Renova come back white as a ghost, and write on insurance forms that are certified to have someone out of work put skin parasite medicinal and biological substance due? Everyone doesn’t have to use renova, they just need to be around someone who is infected that’s how things spread, did you hear of Typhoid Mary? I asked you to look up every chemical that is on those patents, not one chemical is there to improve skin every chemical in this product causes skin problems and opens the skin up to other infections. There are plenty of photos, cat scans, and people to vouch for me and now those who saw the morgellon shows are coming up to me and saying that they think I have morgellons that everything they seen on the show they seen on me. Call Mr. Keith Hilley, an exterminator who came to our home last 10/03/05, with eye witnesses here, took numerous bags of smaples and photos with him, said he never seen anything like it, called a few weeks later stating the lab was having problems identifying it it would take another week, and then we never heard from him again. He won’t return phone calls or documents and photos he took with him. He showed up in jan. 06. at rutgers camden extension. with baggies asking them to check for silkworms. He came in October, he took plastic containers, he calls in November saying it would be another week, then we hear nothing, then he shows up at rutgers with samples to be tested for silk worm, which the women said were to old to test they had decayed. We went up to rutgers in new brunswyck with samples put in containers with alcohol, like she instructed us to do, a week later it is mailed back to us through regular mail, which you are not suppose to mail alcohol containers in the us mail, they are explosive, and mr. buckley stated in his letter we don’t do that kind of test. If Mr. Hilley from Garden State Pest Control didn’t find anything, wouldn’t he have just called and told us that, why did he go to Rutgers and why is Rutgers refusing to test it. I have had plenty of people tell they take all kinds of items to be analyzed at rutgers in new brunswyck. What’s up with that? If you researched before writing you would have found out that the fda has had thousands of complaints on retinol a products, swollen eyes, vision problems, blisters, and other problems. the fda told me they need two complaints before investigating, after researching i found there has been alot of complaints

  204. But again, why not have MRF ask if anyone else use Renova?

    Do you know of anyone else who had this reaction to Renova?

    Why is Renova still for sale? Surely eventually someone will bring a lawsuit? Would it not be cheaper for Renova to be withdrawn from sale?

  205. I don’t know the answer to your question, I wished I did. All I know is that Dr. Victor Mellul, Cherry Hill NJ dermatologist stated it is “residue from renova, you will need emotional help for what you are going to go through, my husband was present, he said don’t touch the dark specks. He wouldn’t say why. Dr. Saul Bresalier, Cherry Hill nj said he never seen such burnt corneas, wanted to know “what the hell was going”, he asked for all my medical records and infor. on this medication. Both physicians refuse to answer questions all didn’t mind billing my insurance co., but I get no service in return. A dermatologist in Ridgley Park, Dr. Gary Beck put on special eyewear, he began shaking and covering his mouth and nose and refused to help and left the room saying he is not qualified, again eye witness. Apparantly those eye glasses he put on would prove it, I know I can see w horrible whitish and bluish figure rolling aound my eyelids and it seems to travel is a gaseous liquid. My vision is blured and double, side effects of all chemicals including accutane and tretinoin. I think as a society we need to demand our physicians, ins. carriers and gov’t officials to be honest and products like this that are suppose to be for cancer and certain type of severe skin problems, should not be being dispensed and advertised on the internet as a miracle cream that it is not a miracle cream, it is a toxic and harmful medication that should only be used with the patient having knowledge of the severe side affects before dispensing this product to the patient. There is no warning of sores, blurred vision, birth defects, and in one of the chemicals it states don’t ever plan on having children after using it, they even robbed me of that right, as accutane, and all the other chemicals are not even on the prescription insert. I don’t even know why I can’t get a lawyer to help, They pass me to each other like physicians have. Is it that politicial in nj a large pharmaceutical corp., many physicians, who as stated by our media get many perks from pharm. corp, and gov’t officials who get lobbyed by them. I don’t know, all I know is that an innocent family has suffered for a long time, and has begged for help and a horrible game has been played. Now finding out that there is chemo therapy agents and radio active agents in this and the damage of being in this lightwave of photons and light manipulation and how much damage has really been done that they are keeping from me? How much damage to my children? Our dog’s testicle blew up like a football last month, they gave him a 90 per cent chance of living, biopsy came back negative for cancer, fibrous torsioned blah blah. I showed the nurse and assistant on the inform. on cyclohexen and could that have done this to him. They were going to ask the vet and had saved a piece of his testicle there. I asked if they could check for chemicals in this product and microorganism it might have. I haven’t heard anything back yet that was a few weeks ago. The assistant said he has been seeing a lot of shows where there are finding strange glowing fibers in the sky, especially around nuclear power plants, and the other girl said there is alot of leukimia on her mother’s street and the citizens are asking the county to check the water. It is ironic that a women spills coffee on herself in her own car and the court makes McDonald’s pay her a huge some of money. My face is scared from a med. that gave no warnings of blisters, vision problems, swelling limbs, etc., 7 years later we find a patent that this man was given an extension on that has all of these side effects, I have physicians refusing to do their duty and oath of office and do biopsy, hair test, culture on the chemicals in this product, one physician did do a hair test but not for chemicals in renova, per the pharmacist it was for codeine, marijuana, heroine, I waited six weeks for tests results, to find out it was not done for what I asked for. I now find out that I have restrictive ventilator defect and the physician doesn’t want to be a witness in a lawsuit.
    One way to settle all of this is to have every physician sit in front of the media and make them answer all questions, including cat scans, have them take a comb and a brush and brush through my hair and put contents in a bag and look right there under a microscope, which now you don’t even need that they are pretty much visible now, but if you don’t want to see something you are not goind to look. As a photographer stated, sometimes you shouldn’t force a blind mans eyes open. I very tired and I am out of patients and the computers light is burning my eyes. I have no reason to lie.
    I want this resolved for the children’s sake for the two young girls who lost their babies in the 8th week of pregnancies, for my children who have suffered physically from something obviously, and what their mother deteriorate and virtually lost their mother, it is all I can do going to work 8 hrs, and trying to find someone to help. Why not do the air quality test and hair test for chemicals in this product? Why not, it would tell all. One way or the other. Have Mr. Hilley state did he get results and why didn’t he respond? That’s all I am asking, for the truth, not the cruel game that was played. Thank you for listening



  208. I’m hoping you can scare off enough morgies, though, Houston.




  212. And we will return to reveal the true meaning of this site.

  213. You came here, saying that you weren’t someone who thinks you have “morgellons disease”, but that it’s your mother. Of course, it isn’t hard to see what the situation really is, and if I were a person who thought that I had it, I would, quite frankly, be very upset with you for giving us all such an in-depth view into it. Everyone does, but you’re extra special.

  214. smilykins
    dont ya just love the last word?
    us aussies r watching u

  215. You better believe that one.

  216. Al & Sarach, do you mean, in general, most Australian’s are keeping abreast of the US?

  217. Smileykins – You now that for me suffering this I find it hard at times to understand what people are asking.

    The best way to answer your question is basically to tell you that the Australian Government will not take one bit of notice of Morgellons Disease in this country until the CDC announce that it is a real disease.

    You must understand that a lot of Professionals in Australia will not accept the existence of Lyme Disease in Australia. That is why we do not have adequate blood tests for this. But anyone who know anything about Lyme disease is well aware it is one of the hardest things to diagnose through a blood test, especially in late stage.

    I could round up a group of people I know and diagnose them all with Lyme disease or Morgellons disease. But I would never tell them this because I would be locked away. I just look in horror, especially as I watch my friends with children struggle daily, I know what they are going through, but they do not know that I know.

  218. I just wondered what Al’s, “Us Aussies are watching you”, and your, “You better beleive it” was about. Thanks, Sarach.

  219. Melbourne is one of the most “multicultural” places in Australia. We have manner different nationalities living here. We have a lot of ethnics – greek, italian, masadonia etc. Myself and others had noticed a great increase in drug induced psychosis about 8 years ago with young men who were either born in Australia from ethnic parents, or were born overseas and emigrated to Australia. The drug in question for producing the psychosis was marijuana. I was convinced that their drug psychosis was from the hydroponics/chemicals/steroids which are used to grow dope these days. Call it an allergic reaction if you like. Personally I believe this group of men to have an underlying diseases, especially with one of the men I met who then started with Schziophrenia at the age of 21 years.

    I remember him telling me one of the first signs of something wrong. He said he heard noises in his head, like someone was tunning in a radio station and changing the stations.

    I do not have Schziophrenia but I had that very same experience about 7 years ago when trying to go to sleep one night. I didn’t feel too well, I was living in the house by which I was poisoned from the gas heater. I clearly remember it, and it just sounded like a radio which was tuning in the stations and voices were heard, as was the static sound as the stations were changed. Not long after this I experienced my first sensation of being pinned down in my sleep by a full body sensation, and then the nightmares began, the nightmares were so real I could not figure out dreams from reality. I had to resort to sleeping with the light and TV on. What did help at that time was to “earth” myself by wrapping a piece of speaker wire around my big toe, the speaker wire then went into a bucket which had a soaking wet towel on top of the remaining speaker wire. This stopped the electical interference that was happening with my brain.

    I have a new piece of speaker wire at the moment, because I think I am going to have to resort to it once again.

  220. Smileykins – I am not watching you personally if that is what you were thinking.

  221. Thank you, Sarach. No, I don’t think along such lines as anyone having me under surveillance. I hope that Al is able to tell me what he meant, since he made the original comment. I hope you feel much better soon.

  222. i am a good friend of justice. i have been to hospitals and doctors offices and witnessed how they mistreat justice and refuse to do tests. i have the sores the scars and the damage done to justice. justice never had any problems and had beautiful skin before using a cream called renova 0.05% developed by prof albert kligman, johnson and johson and mcneill ortho pharm and univer of penn and a third party has arose out of the dark wrinkled past whose stock skyrocketed after this product was approved in 1986, that is abstract polymers. a company who manufactures polymer chips, polymer beads and plastic. as justice stated they used chemo therapy agents in this product called chelating agents that create metal ligands that have claws and spin and while they are spinning they are pulling the skin in what is called polymerization. i done and helped in research and have hard documented facts. they used isotopes, flourescent metal and iron oxides as justice stated. they used lectins, when they become in contact with water the hydrogenerted lectins become fleshy and active again. lectins are two micro organisms that live off of each other. they used titanium, they used photos, and they used silica nano powders. i have taken photos of justice and others who have come in contact, and all photos show this strange organism that appears to be spinning and moving in and out of its victims skin and clothing. some one better to start listening. they used chemicals and gases in this product that have the ability to move in open space onto people, dogs and vehicles, air from one state to another state.

  223. Msc,

    It sounds like you’re confused about what is taking place with the Renova, nevertheless, she should quit taking it if it’s making her itch. Scratching often leads to sores and scarring. I recommend that she contact her doctor and follow his advice. Good luck and good health.


  224. I’m sorry for the problems that Justice, and anyone else involved, is having. Here is a site on Renova, comprised from information sources on it from the United States Food and Drug Administration, Medline, Physician’s Desk Reference, Universities, and several hundred Internet sites, where comments about it are welcome.

  225. I’m sorry for the problems that Justice, and anyone else involved, is having. Here is a site on Renova, composed from information sources on it from the United States Food and Drug Administration, Medline, Physician’s Desk Reference, Universities, and several hundred Internet sites, where comments about it are welcome.

  226. msc
    I need to correct an error on my blog, the polymer co. from
    Redwood Ca. is Advanced Polymers Sys. Inc. New information
    has surface on the syntetic retinoids used in renova and what
    retinoids are derived from. They use bacteriorodopsin to
    make retinoids. As stated before leithins used in this cream
    induces bacteria, the methane used and the prednolone shot, per a nurse makes bacteria mutate, the body also produces
    natural methane which causes bad breath. You combine polymerization, ligands that produce toxic atomic and electronic clouds and chemicals producing oxidated vapors,
    phosophurs ligands with claws, what do you think happens to the patients. you have millions of people buying this product and the majority won’t know it is happening to them unless they are allergic to the chemicals used, that does not
    mean that they are not infected. and if they are infected their physicians would have treated them the same way justice’s physicians treated her. you have dermatologists refusing to do biopsies and cultures and blood and urine tests for the toxic chemicals in this product, all who advertise this cream and dispense it to patients, which makes them liable for a lawsuit, so of course they are telling patients it is their imagination. asked the fda how this cream was ever approved when kligman was banned. how is fungus and genetically altered bacteria being put in a product? justices eyes show an infection but no meds no tests done to find out what it is, staph infections are infectious. ligands spin in clouds and move in open space onto others. i have seen the creatures with my eyes, others have seen them and wrote letters to judges and doctors asking for tests to be done, others stating they have same symptoms. we have a huge problem here. why can’t this family get an attorney to handle her case for the scars, blurred vision burnt corneas that accutane and isotretinoin caused. attorneys know from chemical blloks and pdr books, are they afraid of being infected?

  227. Whoa, now let’s hang on there, Msc. It had been impossible to follow what Justice had said about herself, in the first place. Did your friend read the warnings about Renova before she used it, and did she closely adhere to the directions?

    I’d used some Retin-A (same thing), years ago, that was given to me in the form of a box full of sample tubes, by a relative who’d had to stop using it. They didn’t want to just throw it out, or have it to go to waste, when they were placed on some antibiotic, and had to quit using it, they had said. I didn’t even have a product enclosure to read from, but I knew from magazine articles what precautions to take with it. I’d had no ill effects, whatsoever.

    Justice didn’t misunderstand, by seeing the words, “retin-a”, and put it into her eyes, did she? It is not even supposed to be used near the eyes, and one should thoroughly wash their hands after applying it.

    Please, look at the link I had provided above. It is clearly evident, from Justice’s comments, and now, yours, that something is terribly wrong. Can you provide us with the sources from where you got such unusual information, please?

    It is very sad, that whatever has occurred to Justice, but whatever it is, as far as it relates to her skin problem, as you are both claiming, it is related to her use of Renova. Millions of people have used it, according to its directions, and never had any problems.

    I don’t know what to tell you. Does she not know to go to an eye doctor for problems with her eyes? Please explain that to her.

    Hang on a second. Has she ever been diagnosed with Rosacea? I sure don’t want to confuse you any further, but y’all sure do need someone to throw you a rope from somewhere. If no lawyer thinks that Justice has any grounds to sue, I’d have to agree.

    Please, ask her what she used Renova & Accutane for; if she’d followed all the directions, closely, and fully; if she was diagnosed with Rosacea; and, look at this, IF she was……

    Ocular Rosacea

    Many people who think they have “morgellons disease”, anyway, have terrible problems with their eyes, and report corneal ulcers. I wish Justice good luck.

  228. I’m sorry about the typos above. Msc’s comments pertaining to Justice have haunted me. So, I went back and painstakingly tried to pull out anything of actual relevance from Justice’s comments as to what her situation is. I think it’s clear, now.

    Msc!!! Wake up and pay strict attention to this. PLEASE

    Justice said her neutrophils are 1500 and that she’d “had” melanoma. Msc, she needs help, badly. Completely dismiss what I’d said about rosacea. Do you know anything about it, from when she’d said that she was a melanoma patient two years before using Renova, and, the cat scans that she said no one will answer her questions about?



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