Virginia R Savely and Raphael B StrickerThere’s a new article on Morgellons by Savely and Stricker – the authors of the original Morgellons paper, and proponents of long-term antibiotics for both late stage Lyme and “Morgellons”

Expert Review of Dermatology
October 2007, Vol. 2, No. 5, Pages 585-591

Morgellons disease: the mystery unfolds
Virginia R Savely and Raphael B Stricker


Morgellons disease is a mysterious skin disorder that was first described over 300 years ago. The disease is characterized by fiber-like strands extruding from the skin in association with dermatologic and neuropsychiatric signs and symptoms. Although Morgellons disease has been confused with delusional parasitosis, the occurrence of the disease in children, the lack of pre-existing psychopathology in most patients and the presence of subcutaneous fibers on skin biopsy indicate that the disease has a somatic origin. The association with Lyme disease and the apparent response to antibiotic therapy supports the concept that Morgellons disease may be triggered by an infectious process. Recent studies suggest that infection with Agrobacterium may play a role in the disease. Further clinical and molecular research is needed to unlock the mystery of Morgellons disease.

The full article was posted to various Morgellons mailing lists, and is available here:

Overall the paper is very disappointing. There is very little (if anything) in the way of new information. It seems very much a re-working of the old paper, with some additions of various things that have already been mentioned in the popular press. There is no new science. No real studies, and nothing in the way of case studies.

Here I’ll focus on the more obvious (and sometime imponderable) flaws.

The disease was first described in French children in 1674 by a British physician, Sir Thomas Browne

No, it was not. A totally different disease with the same name was described. Browne writes about a local disease of children characterized by coughs and convulsions that is capped by “harsh hairs on the back”. There is nothing to suggest any link, and the MRF does not claim one.

In 1682, Dr Michel Ettmuller’s microscopic drawings of objects associated with what was then believed to be a worm infestation of children (Figure 1) appear similar to microscopic views of fibers from present-day sufferers of this disease

No, they don’t. Mites E are scabies mites, B is some kind of insect larvae (mosquito maybe) C and D are just some other mites, or perhaps a fuzzball from clothing. Fibers look like fibers, especially 300 years ago. There is no connection here.

Morgellons disease was rediscovered in 2001 by a Pennsylvania housewife, Mary Leitao

Maybe they should have checked with her first. She’s said all along that this was just a label, and nothing to do with the original “Morgellons”.

Morgellons disease was initially considered to be a form of delusional parasitosis (DP) by most dermatologists [3–11]. However, as the disease has become more widely recognized, significant clinical differences from DP have become apparent (as discussed later) [12,13,102]. The recent discovery of a putative infectious cause of the disease supports a somatic etiology of this bizarre skin condition.

Dermatologists options have not changed, and they are not as simple as suggested here. If there is something wrong with a patient’s skin, then it’s not DP. Delusions might play a part, but people can have skin problems, and also have delusions at the same time.

A network of blue, red, white and black fibers under the skin of these patients as well as blue, black and white fibers protruding from the lesions can be visualized using a 30× hand-held digital microscope [...] The fiber-like material can be observed in skin lesions as either single strands or what appear to be balls of fibrous material that may demonstrate autofluorescence (Figure 4) [1]. Patients frequently describe this material as ‘fibers’, ‘fiber balls’ or ‘fuzz balls’.

Here note they are trotting out the same descriptions that have been going around for years. Red, white, blue and black fibers on and under the skin, and fuzz balls. This is the crux of the matter here. What could these fibers be? After several years nobody has been able to identify any fibers EXCEPT those fibers which were clothing fibers.

Typically, patients have sought help from 10–40 physicians who often make a diagnosis of DP without a thorough examination and interpret the obvious open sores on the patient’s skin as attempts at self-mutilation

Now this might hold some weight if they had a cohort of patients that they could actually demonstrate had some skin problems that 10-40 doctors had simply dismissed. Unfortunately they are unable to do this. If there are over 10,000 patients, then that’s around 200,000 times that doctors had “dismissed” the lesions as self-inflicted. A better word might be “diagnosed”. 200,000 diagnoses, and all 200,000 wrong? Clearly not. In fact, this large number of similar diagnoses seems to suggest that the diagnoses is correct. If you go to 20 doctors, and they all tell you the same thing, then does this make it more or less likely that your self-diagnosis is correct?

We currently follow more than 200 Morgellons patients in our practice in San Francisco.

So they diagnose Morgellons. And treat it.

The male to female ratio is approximately 1:1 according to the Morgellons Research Foundation. The disease affects all age groups including children, but the prevalence in children is unknown at present. There is often a history of traumatic exposure to plants, dirt or soil, such as gardening, landscaping, farming, camping or other outdoor activities. The association with plant exposure has implications for the etiology of the disease (as discussed later).

This is getting silly. Who has not had “a traumatic exposure to plants, dirt of soil” in the last ten years? Scuffed a knee? Grazed a knuckle? Potted a plant? What was the questionnaire question for this? It’s not mentioned on the MRF survey. What is the sample size?

It appears that skin lesions and fibers may not be present in all individuals with this disease, since family members of patients often report similar systemic symptoms without skin lesions

Brilliant, you don’t even need lesions or fibers to have Morgellons. So what, then, is the case definition for? If you just had the symptoms of Menopause, you would qualify for Morgellons. If you were simply getting old, you could quite easily diagnose yourself with it.

Patients have reported symptoms of this disease in their pets [1]. The majority of reports involve dogs, but cats appear to be increasingly affected. Skin lesions fitting the description of Morgellons disease have also been reported in horses, and horse owners have observed fibers associated with skin lesions on their animals by using a lighted 30× hand-held microscope [1].

What are we to make of this? Dogs and cats? Horses? Reported by the patients? This is getting ludicrous.

Skin biopsies of patients typically reveal nonspecific pathology, or an inflammatory process with no observable pathogens [1]. Several biopsies have shown fibrous material projecting from inflamed epidermal tissue. Often the biopsies are reported to contain ‘textile fibers’ located in the dermal region rather than being adherent to the skin. How these fibers arrive at a subcutaneous location remains unexplained.

This is called an “argument from ignorance” – we can’t figure out how those fibers got there, so it much be some freaky bacteria! A more sensible approach would be to first question these reports. How many, and from whom? Then you might consider the thousand ways that fibers MIGHT get under unbroken skin. Start with light neurotic excoriations which healed over. Then perhaps consider fibers inside follicles. Anyway, you do the math.

Recent studies indicate that Morgellons fibers are resistant to chemical solubilization and heating, making analysis difficult by conventional means [...] There is preliminary information that some Morgellons fibers are made of cellulose, but this information has neither been formally evaluated nor confirmed

So which is it? Resistant to heating, or cellulose? There’s also studies that indicate they are wool and cotton. How do you pick which study to choose? Simply the one the fits your facts best. Better be careful and not pick too many.

In a preliminary study, skin biopsies from Morgellons patients revealed evidence of infection with Agrobacterium, which causes crown gall disease in plants [20]

[20] here is “Stricker‌ RB, Savely VR, Zaltsman A, Citovsky V. Contribution of Agrobacterium to Morgellons disease. J. Invest. Med. 55, S123 (2007). • First description of Agrobacterium in Morgellons patients.” What happened here was Stricker sent Citovsky TWO samples from sick patients with open sores on their skin. Citovsky tested them, and also six samples from health patients with nothing wrong with their skin. The sick patients with skin problems were found to test positive for Agrobacterium. The healthy patients did not.

That’s it. Samples of dubious origin with no appropriate control group, in a statistically meaningless amount. At best it suggests that people who have constant open lesions on their skin due to neurotic excoriations tend to have agrobacterium in the tissue around those lesions. Possibly due to dirt under fingernails. If you itch, you will scratch, if scratch for years then it’s not at all unlikely you would scratch some dirt into your skin.

We then get to “differential diagnosis”, where they purport to show that “Morgellons” cannot be Delusional Parasitosis (DP), Drug induced formication, Scabies, tropical dermatoses (Harvey’s theory) or perforating dermatoses. These arguments seem to be neat little tautologies, which I’ll summarize for flavor:

  • Morgellons cannot be DP because the patients were not delusional before they got Morgellons.
  • Morgellons cannot be drug induced formication, because the patients don’t take drugs.
  • Morgellons cannot be tropical dermatoses, because the patient has not been to the tropics.
  • Morgellons cannot be perforating dermatoses because the patients don’t have the genes or the symptoms

The reasoning here is either irrelevant or wrong. Nobody is making any claim that “Morgellons is X”, so demonstrating that “Morgellons” is not filarial worms does not make any real statement about the population of people who have self-diagnosed with Morgellons. Since the most likely explanation for “Morgellons” is that it is a random mixture of physical and mental conditions, varying by individual, that the sufferer’s have self-diagnosed as Morgellons, then you will ALWAYS be able to find many in that group about whom you can say “they do not have X, so Morgellons is not X”. Contrariwise, you can always find some who actually DO have X, but this also does not mean that “Morgellons is X”, it just means X explains the symptoms for that particular patient.

Take “Drug-induced formication”. Some people who think they have Morgellons actually DO have drug-induced formication. It’s not clear how many, but that’s a bit a of straw man, because formication is a symptom of a HUGE range of conditions, including menopause. Of course Savely and Stricker could say “Morgellons is not Menopause, because some of the patients are men”. But that’s just as disingenuous as their other differentials. Some people who have self-diagnosed with Morgellons MUST have menopause-related formication. It’s a statistical certainty. And given that there are around a million regular meth users in the US, it’s almost certain that some of them have drug-induced formication. If you take into account the users of Ritalin, Adderall and Lunesta (all of which have formication as a side effect), then the proportion is much higher.

Then saying that Morgellons is not onchocerciasis because “tropical travel and eosinophilia are not commonly reported in Morgellons patients” is almost funny. Funny because it’s quite true. Funny because it’s the theory that the MRF are about to promote. And funny because it’s the kind of reasoning that Stricker derided the CDC and the IDSA for when they say it’s unlikely that you have Lyme disease if you don’t live in a region where it is endemic, or if your tests come back negative.

It is unfortunate that this paper will be taken seriously when it really boils down to “We don’t know what these people have, but we think that large quantities of antibiotics help some, and doctors should be more open minded.” The publication of this paper will only perpetuate the misunderstandings regarding Morgellons and further drive vulnerable patients into the clutches of quacks and charlatans.

101 Responses to “Morgellons disease: the mystery unfolds”

  1. At Stony Brook, we have done some great work with the fibers. The fibers look to be cellulose
    based with mineral constituents that we believe give the fibers their characteristic colors (Raman Microspectroscopy indicates a methyl cellulose match). We are also looking at the possibility that succinoglycans are involved (Raman demonstrates this possibility as well). SEM has shown us incredible features which we are underway writing about to publish.

  2. Correction — we performed FTIR and additional Raman Microspectroscopy…

  3. Oh, good Lord.

  4. Methyl cellulose is more of a goo than a fiber.

    “Cellulose with mineral constituents that we believe give the fibers their characteristic colors” = dyed cotton

  5. No, not cotton. More information will be coming out about our findings.

  6. What excellent news for all of the “morgellons disease” patients who are so unreasonably terrified of cotton.

    Really, Mark Darrah, can those particular patients just drop their fear after Stony Brook publishes their “findings”, feeling safe, and free, to go back to their former lives before they developed “their concerns”?

    Mark, you’ve said, before, that you think there is “a pattern”, and that you “believe there is a mutation that is spreading to humans after insect/plant infiltration, reproduction and vectoring”.

    Do you still feel that way, and can you justify studying match-box sign contents for patients with such extreme compromises to their executive functionings, keeping the “morgellons disease” patients inside of their tortured thoughts?

    Excuse me, I simply want to reason everything out.

    Thank you, Smileykins

  7. Very interesting, Mark. When will these results be published?

  8. I’ll get back to you with that info… compiling data this weekend… not at all sure, at this point, about any vector… conjecture has changed from my previous comments .

  9. Mark,We spoke on the phone sometime in September,lost youre number,at that time you told me you had no more funding for research,I live 10 miles away from Stony Brook,I have been infected at least 13 years that I can recall these symtoms happening.I was willing and am still willing to be part of any study going on there.Did you recieve more funding? I am a walking petri dish,I can tell and show you alot of how this disease works,please contact me again,Dawn,Long Island,N.Y.

  10. Dawn — I will contact you soon — I hope that you are well despite this horrible syndrome. Sufferers’, apparently, have different levels and types of expression, including remission and relapse; this confuses things further.

  11. this is real
    im a 17 yr old grl from ny
    a year ago i started having neuro symptoms
    went to diff docs couldnt find anything
    i had tingling numbness spasms…but the worst was this unexplainable ‘shocking pain’ that would come without warning
    i described it to my mom as ‘glass’ comming out of my skin
    everyone told me i was insane..i thought i was insane..i continued to just ignore it and get depressed..but deep down i knew something was very wrong with my brain was changing..all these things were wierd..
    then one day (sorry if i sound dramatic..but it is)..i called up my mom crying that i was experienceing this horrible pain from one little spot on my finger..i was screaming crying ithurt so bad…i remember looking at my finger and being so scared tat i had nothing to show for this pain and then i saw when i turned my finger in the light there was this thing coming up from was a thin thread like thing and it was was clear ..i called my mom again and she came home from biking with a friend..
    she pulled it out of my finger and was so disturbed. it broke apart
    ive had these things comign out ever since. and im not going to live with these pains.
    at least she believes me now

  12. dawn i live on long island too..close to the hamptons

  13. Kell,

    get off this site, they are only here to harm, and will call you paranoid and delusional, go to a real Morgellons Forum where folks are kind to each other and have GOOD advice. i don’t want you to get hurt by these folks.

    best regards

  14. same for anyone else looking for help, do not rely on this site!!!

  15. Kell — junknira is correct. I would like to speak with you. Don’t leave any info on this site! We will figure out a way to contact each other.

  16. They want to give you good advice– like taking capstar or how to trick your doctor into giving you medicine?

  17. This blog is a helpful tool, and the only one of its kind, for people who can reason. Morgellons Watch is precisely what I wish had been around when I’d been ill for a couple of months one time.

    Before I’d heard about “morgellons disease” (close to six years ago, now), I’d had issues, too, with fibers, worms, and bugs. I wasted a lot of precious time looking on the internet, trying to understand what was happening to me, while my body wasted away.

    I’d been very ill, physically, and it affected my mind. I didn’t do a lot of the common behaviors of “morgellons disease patients”, (which parallels what so many of them have been diagnosed with) such as, demanding that others believe what I’d thought was happening to me and getting mean about it, or of relentlessly seeking medical assistance trying to prove what I knew was weird beyond description. I also didn’t perform obsessive cleaning rituals, I didn’t peer at anything from my body (or my environment) through the lens of a microscope, nor did I ingest any insanely dangerous concoctions, or antibiotics, nor did I use any extremely hazardous topical preparations. I also didn’t scratch and pick at my skin. I didn’t think I had to kill something I was infested with, even though I’d thought it was killing me.

    I could have sworn, at the time, that I was going through what I interpreted myself as having gone through. Heat induced illness was my problem, and it led to other complications, including hallucinating while I was in the process of passing kidney stones.

    The experience I’d endured was delusional parasitosis. My mind recovered when my physical body recovered from having been in an ill state of health which produced the effects. I’d known that, despite it being as hard as it was to work through at the time it occurred (because when one’s own mind plays tricks on a person, you’re pretty well fucked up…and good).

    I’d discovered what delusional parasitosis is, through hindsight, after being led to lymebusters message board from the MRF’s site, after hearing about “morgellons disease” on the radio.

    A whole lot of underlying illnesses, nutritional deficiencies, drug side effects and interactions, and more, can lead to its development.

    I do not think that ALL “morgellons disease” patients have DOP. I think that many other people, too, who have compromised reasoning skills (I’m trying to be polite, and no doubt, failing, miserably) have signed onto “morgellons disease” since the original group of patients spread news of their lifestyles on the web and fell into Mary Leitao’s trap.

  18. Mark, excuse me, but I think your reasoning skills are in a state of malfunction. That is a compliment, compared to what my alternative thought about what you’re doing is.

  19. Smileykins — you like to start fights — doesn’t work with me, maybe due to my substandard reasoning skills. I’ll ignore your postings. None of us need your negativity.

  20. mark, how should i go about communication?

  21. let me think how we can go about this — maybe i can put up a gmail address and take it down after we exchange contact. i will attempt to do this tonight…

  22. alright

  23. i should be able to do this around 9/9:30 –

  24. ok thnks

  25. Damn. She’s only 17.

  26. can’t post an email…

  27. trying again:

  28. Mark Help. Having a bad flare up now am 69 years old and it hurts bad. dermotologist today said DP. I even took microscope and speciums I took from my arm. Have sites on shoulder, legs, buttocks hip,and the rt arm and hand. email is I live in Oklahoma and my daughter in Missouri also have them.

  29. This is informative (for anyone who can try), from The Journal Of The European Academy Of Dermatology And Venereology, April 2007

    Delusional Parasitosis In Dermatological Practice

    The accurate incidence of delusional parasitosis (DP) is difficult to assess. The aim of this study was to analyse the frequency of DP treated by dermatologists, and to evaluate the treatment modalities they applied.

    blockquote>DP is a quite common disorder, however not all dermatologists are sufficiently prepared to treat it. There is an urgent need for training on the dermatological approach to psychodermatoses.

    Delusional parasitosis is, as I’ve always suspected (and as the “morgellons disease movement” has, so far, at least, proven to me) a very common disorder. It is triggered by many underlying things, including certain nutritional deficiencies, prescription drug side effects and drug interactions, illicit drug or alcohol abuse, and numerous physical disorders, as well as various mental health problems. The horrific perceptions are incorrect, and strong as hell, but they will go away when the underlying condition that’s triggered them is treated.

  30. since our contention is that most derms don’t recognize the signs and symptoms of morgellons disease the article cited proves absolutely nothing. what criteria did the derms, participating in this study, use to diagnose DOP? did they exclude all other possible causes for the symptoms presented by their patients? do a full physical exam? closely examine the patients medical history? were skin scrapings, biopsies, cultures, etc… used to rule out parasites? a full blood panel drawn? what about fecal test? my guess is that none of the derms followed the protocol steps neccessary for making an accurate diagnosis. the matchbook syndrome “symptom” is not an acceptable method to determine this type of illness. pathetic

  31. I’m putting together a database for Long Island New York and would like Morgellon’s sufferers here to send me contact information for a study we are proposing. I would also like to, at the same time, help form a support group for this region.

    All information is confidential.

  32. Due to “morgellons disease” bringing the dilemma of such patients to the public’s attention, even laypersons who are interested, and may not have known much about the topic of DOP (as well as other psychodermatoses), beforehand, have been given direct insight into the situation directly from patients’ accounts on the internet.

    Sadly, all such patients, who have been persuaded into believing “morgellons disease” is what they have, can’t grasp the profound significance of the patient interview process that occurs every time anybody consults a doctor.

    Patient perspective, as well as our general demeanor, and body language, plays a gigantic role in diagnosing illness. Many online patients explicitly describe how they’ve received repeated diagnoses of DOP, stating their full accounts of doctor visits, with their matchbox specimens in hand, including what they say and do.

    Now, since the advent of “morgellons disease”, such patients think that arming themselves with literature on it will legitimize their situation. Yet, they still can’t accept it, and it’s understandable.

    How should a patient present to a doctor when they’re unable to realize what’s at the root of their problem? Apparently, precisely how “morgellons disease patients” do, over and over, and that’s why we need a reform to the system that’s failed such people.

  33. slimey,
    ???????? WTF? can you say double talk? you didn’t address the protocol that derms fail to adhear to. you can babble all you want to but you can’t explain away the truth.

  34. ppy,

    Ah, come on! You can tell that you people are delusional just by listening to you. Why waste time and money with needless tests?


  35. You can have parasites and still be DOP. And you can be delusional and not DOP. It’s about time for you Morgies to learn what delusional means.

  36. 6. Cognitive dysfunction, includes frontal lobe processing signs interfering with logical thinking…

    Remember? That’s from MRF’s case definition for “morgellons disease”. I think that’s brazenly stating that they know they can screw with the patients they’re screwing with.

  37. Yes, its sad when “parasites” really means electron fibers.

    Oh yes, the author has credentials

  38. al — are you the author?

  39. tallrotten,
    because thats how the diagnosis is supposed to be made. parasitic infection is known to be the cause of many forms of mental illness. so if you want to call me crazy then you better be making sure parasites are not part of the problem. the reason many psychotropics work, at least partially, for some is that they contain antiparasitics. you know this. y’all have researched this crap and you know all about this stuff. if you don’t then maybe you need to do a little research yourself………………….i’m waiting for sarah to pop in with her usual smarmy request for documentation. look it up, sarah. it ain’t hard to find. but you already know all this stuff too, right? lets all stop playing dumb here, okay. i’m tired…tired of this game, this disease, this called my life. i’m ready to be done with it. you have nothing scientific to prove your case. until all the test stated in my last post are conducted on every one of us than the DOP label doesn’t hold water. thats the way it’s set up ,see. just because a doctor makes the DX doesn’t make the DX legit. there is a protocol for a reason. doctors not following it are in for some big surprises in the near future

  40. Electron fibers? That’s a good one…

  41. Congratulations on being The New Morgellons Order/Charles E. Holman Foundation’s, Morgie of the Month, ppy.

    What you’ve said in your personal account made a lot of sense, especially the parts about how things started four years ago, and that you’ve, since, “gone to see many, many more doctors”, and how some spoke in hushed tones, etc. Has anyone told you why you “either sleep for days or stay awake for days”? Your most disconcerting comment was about being referred by “the top infectious disease doctor at Atlanta’s largest hospital” to the neurology department and having been diagnosed with “brain lesions similar to those of a person with MS”, and your proclaiming, “the usual way brain lesions are treated–they sent me home and told me I should see a psychiatrist.”.

    If you, indeed, have a demyelinating disease, that isn’t “the usual way” the brain lesions are treated. It is wonderful that you reported you’re doing so much better, and that you can work, now, but…

    I seriously hope that you can enlist someone in your life that’s able to assist you in investigating that lead from the neurology department.

    I know that it isn’t that you lack the necessary intelligence to do a simple search on Orap (or other such medications), on All that it took was one patient stating that particular false claim, and no other “morgellons disease” patients seem to care about validating it.

  42. A simple CBC would show elevated eosinophils. Assuming that you haven’t taken too many antibiotics, as was the case with one of Ginger Savely’s patients, this would indicate the presence of parasites or else an allergy. Ginger’s patient was advised to stop Rocephin injections. But, ppy, even if every Morgie had parasites, which they do not, one visit to lymebusters is indication enough that most Morgies that visit that site are delusional and in need of mental help. Several of the Morgies are obviously schizophrenic, and some display symptoms of other forms of mental illness. Just look at Niel’s recent behavior. Is that crazy, or is that crazy? And he thinks that selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors kill bacteria. Where does he get these idiotic ideas? The bad thing is that he tries to teach his nonsense to other Morgies.

  43. shortcotton,
    again, without the proper testing, dop does not hold water. the protocol was enlisted for a reason. i didn’t institute it, you didn’t institute it, doctors did. sooooooo the kneejerk dx given by those drs who did little if any testing will cost them dearly down the line. as for the lyme lesion/MS lesion on my brain…according to my ID dr here in atlanta, since you can’t get lyme in this state he would like to wait 6 to 8 months and then schedule another mri to look for changes. hmmmm sounds like a good plan to me. since i have very little money and am working not at all it would be very difficult for me to get a second opinion. they don’t give them away for free ya know. now, about the orap, list each component and its stated medical purpose for me please, if you don’t mind. that way i can put a stop to that nasty rumor for you. btw thanks for the comments about my morgie of the month achievement. the picture was a bit disappointing but the write up was cute. no i’m not braggin cause i didn’t write. my roomie is much more creative and a hella better typist. smooches katie, you rock. i was actually supposed to be morgie of the month in oct, which is when that was written. i have subsequently lost my job due to the lesions on my face becoming infected again. my boss consulted her neighbor, one of the top pediatric surgeons in america, about morgellons. she examined me and took a few days to research the information available concerning this illness. in her opinion, the chance of it being contagious was too great to risk to continue in my current job. translation…..bye bye ppy.who can blame them. would you risk the health of your small children?

  44. y’all shouldn’t talk about niels since you banned him and he can’t defend himself. i think he may be just a little smarter and y’all were just having trouble following along.

  45. Nobody is banned at the moment. I prefer not to ban people unless totally necessary.

  46. Smelly-

    Do you realize you refered to yourself over 30 times in a single post?

  47. No, Gregg, OMG, I didn’t realize that. Where?

    Ppy, I thought that was a very attractive picture of you, and I’m sorry you lost your job. I’m sure that someone would update your information on the Morgie of the Month page, if you just requested it.

    “Morgellons disease patients” have an OSU professor of pharmacology who should be willing, and able, to explain pimozide exceedingly better than I. I don’t know who started this rumor, but, Cathy McDonald’s Diary, dated 2003, was the first time I’d seen it. She’d said, “…note that these medicines contain drugs in the benzimidazole family, many of which are anthelmintic and fungiostatic.”. Lots of other patients, not even understanding anything about basic chemistry, have continued repeating this misconception.

    The structural formula for pimozide is:


    So what? The structural formula for the prilosec, that I, and millions of other people take is:


    Randy Wymore can certainly explain this to you, and, then, you can explain, exactly how it is, to others.

  48. Sorry about that getting “cut off”.





    If I could explain chemistry to you, I would.

  49. yay i can defend myself.

    Mr. TallCotton — given the “mechanism of action unknown” of
    most SSRI’s it is not well understood if “prevention of
    serotonin uptake” is a first or second order effect. Most
    SSRI’s available today are “blunt instruments” of
    psychotropics since they do not specifically target specific
    brain receptors. Any “targetting” is usually the result of
    accident and not design. That’s not to say that future
    SSRI’s will not be engineered to target specific brain
    receptors, and therefore also reduce other
    morbidity-inducing side effects of SSRI’s — inducing
    diabetes through hypoglyclemia and blood sugar regulation
    difficulties, inducing weight gain as your body reacts to
    the “shotgun approach” of the SSRI targetting numerous
    systems, inducing lipid imbalance, inducing
    artheriosclerosis, inducing heart attack, inducing death. As
    with previous “blunt instrument” approaches to brain
    dysfunction — lobotomy — the chemical lobotomy you seem to
    want to force on people is as primitive and wrong-headed as
    other travesties of medicine form the past — trepannation,
    blood letting, leeches, etc.

    (My commends apply equally to the drugs favored by medical
    malpractitioners misdiagnosing Morgellons as DOP — Orap and
    Zyprexa. Perhaps you’re not familiar with the Zyprexa
    class-action settlement?
    Orap is a real winner to: )

    Instead of your own “amateur” viewpoint, perhaps you should
    read up on the subject, which is discussed in the literature
    (Better Than Prozac: Creating the Next Generation of
    Psychiatric Drugs By Samuel H. Barondes is a particularly
    accessible book that should be read by any potential victim
    of the “psychotropic blunt instruments” prescribed by
    doctors with no background in psychiatry. If your
    dermatologist or primary is prescribing these … it’s
    malpractice… they do not have the experience to prescribe
    or monitor the deadly health effects of these drugs).

    Instead of quoting me out of context and trying to make me
    look like an idiot — which is the modus operandi of this
    board and the cabal of Quackwatch-inspired idiots that post
    here — why don’t you actually give the link itself so
    people can decide for themselves what I’m saying.
    (I need to update this with some new information i found
    regarding yet more medicines of class “mechanism of action
    unknown” commonly prescribed for “syndrome” diseases that
    turn out to have strong antiviral properties.)

    Viruses are directly implicated in all manner brain
    dysfunction as per and … but just try to get your
    psychotropic drug pushing doctor to even test you for HHV-6
    or EBV, let alone treat the etiologtical basis of
    disease…. par for the course.

    Also, calling people that you disagree with “crazy” is not
    much of an argumentation technique, but it’s about all that
    can be expected from a cracker like yourself. You should go
    back to your natural milieu of crack/meth-smoking,
    noose-displaying and NASCAR…

  50. I glanced over at a hospital’s bulletin board the other day, and saw a notice that read, “How To Deal With The Difficult Patient”, and it really sparked my curiosity.

    Without any doubt in my mind, the “original morgies”, consisting of patients who’d had DOP diagnoses, and first helped to get the ball rolling with “morgellons disease”, truly have DOP. That is a dreadful state to be in, regardless of the underlying condition(s) causing it, and their fear that they’ve got a unique and undiscovered pathogen is real and quite understandable. DOP works on people that way, and such patients thought like that before ever hearing of “morgellons disease”. If those patients haven’t seen psychiatrists, or if they have gone and withheld telling them all about what they’re experiencing, they will not receive the necessary tests to rule out a true infestation, or ever find out if their belief is a shakable one. “Morgellons disease” is a dangerous thing for a DOP patient to believe in, on top of having DOP, and it further stands in the way of the person’s getting appropriate medical care. The “compassionate & caring doctors and researchers of morgellons disease” are not the friends they truly believe they are.

    “Morgellons disease” strikes a familiar cord in quite a few others, whom I believe do not have DOP, as is pretty evident to everyone who’s concerned about this terrible situation. There’s such a huge variety of disorders and diseases among the patients/believers, of course, entirely due to the formation of the MRF, and their all-inclusive, evolving, “case defintion”.

    Then, it appears that some such patients take their “self-diagnosis of morgellons disease” in to a doctor and, they, probably, receive a diagnosis of DOP, when they, otherwise, would not.

    Back to what I’d started out with, though, about my curiosity over “the difficult patient”. You know how the MRF has stated that patients with “morgellons disease” have personality disorders, and boundary issues, among other things? Well, after having read so many “morgellons disease patients” claims that they’ve been mentally evaluated, and “passed with flying colors”, “passed a test of their sanity”, etc., etc., I’ve begun to look at this issue in a different light.

    Although it’s lengthy, I think this is one of the most fascinating articles that I’ve ever read, so I want to share.

    It’s from the October 15, 2004 issue of American Family Physician.

    By definition, the symptoms of personality disorders can’t be caused by:

    1. a major psychiatric disorder
    2. a medical disorder, or
    3. the effects of a substance

    The lifetime prevalence of personality disorders in the general population is an estimated 10 to 13 percent. Based on structured surveys, the prevalence rates of personality disorders in primary care outpatient settings may be as high as 20 to 30 percent. The treatment of medical and psychiatric disorders is more complicated in patients with comorbid personality disorders. Studies have documented poorer treatment outcomes and health status, and higher rates of health care use and costs in patients with comorbid personality disorders. Many patients with whom physicians experience problematic relationships, and who have been referred to in the literature as patients who are “difficult” have personality disorders.

  51. Hey Ppy…you PYT…here you are. I’ve been wonderin’ where your ass has been! Givem ‘em hell…good girl. I’m proud of your Morgie of the Month…Crack Head and Crack Whore are just jealous…keep up the good work!

    Neils you too…! Tryin’ to keep up with these fruit cakes isn’t easy…glad you got the energy to do it.

  52. Small Cotton and Smileydims,
    You are mentally ill. I am working with 4 Doctors Now and Have 2 Psychiatrists convinced that this is not DOP.
    I Dislike you intensly and wish you a special place in Hell for all the Damage you We all know you have tried to do. We have proof this exists and have connections with the NIH and CDC
    I am in Contact with CDC, Depts of Health and they all agree, it is real.
    We will have our paper out by Jan 1, and debunk your debunking, dellusion and illness.
    Glad you got to go to Tokyo and travel while so many can’t even get a Doctor.
    You are mentally ill and the most uncompassanite Vectors on the Earth.
    But Guess what, I and others wish you well.
    In spite of 4 people who have killed themselves over this Disease.
    God Bless You and Michael and may you see the truth
    K. L. None of your Business, MD, PhD Infectious Disease

  53. Did Tall Cotton and I go to Tokyo?

  54. Some “morgellons disease patients” have mentioned being unable to locate this obituary. I found it in November 9th’s New York Journal News.

    For anyone who wishes to leave their condolences to Karen Stern’s family, the guest book will remain online until December 09th.

  55. carrie,
    what are you doing out here in looneyville? better be careful, they want to eat your brain. sad….really sad folks livin in this town. it ain’t a nice place to visit and you gotta be certifiable to live here. you’re familiar with the phrase “coo-coo for cocoapuffs”? town motto i hear. run carrie run. don’t look back just keep on movin. i can’t hold em off much longer….the poison..its k i l l i n m e….

  56. Ah barnacles…it didn’t work…

    I’m runnin’ Kelly…thanks for the tip…always runnin’…

  57. Frankly I am dismayed at the quality of the posting on this website. I came here looking for information not ‘incredulous jokes’. With the unusual weather partern in England the tick population has exploded. This is having a knock on effect with animal deaths such as badgers and foxes. Vets are reporting similar fiberous sores in animals. I suppose you would consider foxes delusional as well? Also sad that the number of human cases is increasing. Equally baffling is that events in the 1600′s were similar and french doctors then reported black fibres. Can anyone point me in the direction of a serious site where it isn’t being hijacked by a clueless 17 year old girl and morons posting pictures of Cocoa-puffs?

    Some of us would like more factual and scientific information.

  58. Hi Dr Baffled. There is a lot of information hidden away here. What in particular were you looking for?

  59. Niels, posts with a large number of links get marked automatically as spam by WordPress. I dug that one out of the spam can, but I just did not want you to think you were being censored.

  60. Not wanting to fuel further confusion to this debate, I add my experiences here just in case they are of help to anyone.

    I have experienced a set of clinical symptoms, probably caused by a respiratory virus, WHICH ARE VERY SIMILAR TO MORGELLONS SYMPTOMS.

    This respiratory virus quickly caused very powerful mental changes (such extreme anxiety, depression, fatigue, anhedonia), overall immune system waekness, chronic sore throat, chronic nasal congestion (with heavy thick mucus), strange parchment-like skin wrinkling all over my body, weakening legs and hip joints (probably due to connective tissue being attacked), and a whole cluster of other lesser symptoms.

    The same infection spread slowly to all members of the household within a year, plus to many other friends (who are live elsewhere – so this is not caused by mold or toxin at home).

    Many of these poor people had similarly intense and nasty symptoms.

    A detailed description is found on the web site I set up here:

    As yet, here are no signs of any fibers.

    My guess is that my condition is not actually Morgellons.

    Yet it is strange, is it not, how closely the symptoms of this respiratory virus I caught match so closely those of Morgellons disease.

    Assuming that these are two different conditions, then if this is some new respiratory virus currently going around, then care must be taken to avoid diagnostic errors between this virus and Morgellons, since both manifest such similar clinical symptoms.

    A final idea to consider – the opposite idea – that these ARE the same condition: my virus produces noticeable immune suppression, so one logical possibility is that Morgellons may be due to this same virus, plus some nematode parasitic infection in addition – this virus creating enough immune suppression to allow the parasitic infection to advance.

    NOTE: I do not stand by either point of view; I am just offering both to consider.

    The immunopathology of the virus I have – as manifested by many opportunistic secondary infections throughout my body – suggests that this virus may be some virulent strain of human herpes six.

  61. Hi, hip. Do you not have a health care provider to assist you with your conditions?

  62. I have seen many medical specialists, and have taken many tests.

    I am systematically looking at various remedies for chronic fatigue syndrome, which is probably what I have. If my CFS is caused by HHV-6, this may be treatable to an extent with the antiviral drug Valganciclovir.

    Humanity must really strive to find a solution to the problem of viral infections, and infectious disease in general. Microbial infection, especially the chronic, undetected, lingering, sub-clinical, causes a huge amount of misery to the human species. Virologist are rapidly realizing that ‘sub-clinical’ persistent viral infections underlie an enormous number of diseases, from MS to cancer.

    And medical science is just beginning to get serious about examining co-infections, where a disease may manifest via the effect in the body of two or more microbes.

  63. With all due respect Hip, why do you think that your symptoms are all related and caused by a pathogen, a new and emerging pathogen, that you’ve named, and spoken so authoritatively on? You state on your website:

    Should anyone recognize these symptoms, or have some ideas about the identity of this pathogen, please leave a comment.

    I’ve had a chronic sore throat for a couple of decades. I developed asthma and allergic bronchitis later on. I also have all of the symptoms you have listed on your website except loose joints and wrinkled skin. The loose joints you referenced, “joint hypermobility syndrome”, is something my grown daughter has had all her life. It’s commonly referred to as being double-jointed. It’s no big deal to her.

    Instead of guessing, what have you been diagnosed with?

  64. Ok, try this – go to and do some reading, and I think you will find
    an interesting commonality from Cliff Carnicom’s findings and what your patients
    are finding in and under their skin. Warning: this may be the truth you are
    looking for, and it will be a bit scary. Buckle your chinstrap, kids….

  65. Steve, most people familiar with the “morgellons disease” phenomenon are already familiar with that tortured person. Upon your suggestion, I revisited his site. His methods of manipulating people who are unable, or unwilling, to treat their illness is very disturbing.

  66. HV6 is also common with us Morgies and Autism which is also familiar to Morgellons…that along with ADHD and ADD.

    Hip, I appreciate your response but assure you Morgellons isn’t your disease. Most with Morgellons are immune suppressed but there are others that are “auto-immune” or in immune over drive. I think that just depends what phase of the disease you are in. I agree there may be many common characteristics but what actually defines Morgellons is bigger than any bacteria and certainly any virus.

  67. Oh and Smileykins… what is causing your asthma and allergic bronchitis? Huh? Worms! The common round worm in their migration phase…get a clue sistah! Find the truth, stop hiding from it by being such a beotch to our people, yours and mine! Pub Med and many other scientific data will tell the truth if you’re willing to look. Allergic bronchitis to what? The chemicals that are released from molting and migrating round worm larva are very allergenic. We have been taught to fool ourselves that we have “allergic” or “auto immune disease”, that our bodies fight “ghost” entities that aren’t really there when our treating physicians NEVER search for the worms and their stages that are almost always there causing the symptoms that have already been described and cited in literature!!! There are worms in the USA ya’ll…it’s not just our pets and our food supply that has them…

  68. commonsens I am interested in where I can see a copy of the paper you said would be out on Jan. 1st. I am a newcomer, although I have monitored this site for some time. I have noticed Tallcotton and Smilekins on a couple of other sites. I am not here to argue. I just don’t have a lot of research skills on the internet and there’s nowhere else to go.

    Here’s my story(as short as possible): I started having large sores on my BACK, nowhere I could see or touch, without looking in a mirror of course. I had been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia 7 or 8 years ago by a Rhumatologist. He also ran MRI’s and found several herniated disks up and down my spine. I also have alot of connecting tissue loss in my hips, this sometimes causes me to have pinched nerves. Anyway, I went to my regular md about a pinched nerve in my leg, and as I was leaving I asked him to take a look at the weird sores on my back that just kept getting bigger and bigger. He did and said he didn’t really know what they were, but he prescribed sulfa drugs. They did not help. The sores started itching terribly and I scratched. The sores started coming up on my face, legs, arms, and chest. I also had them in one of my ears. Needless to say the scratching caused infection, and my lymph nodes in my neck swelled up to what felt like golf balls.

    I have an old family doctor and his wife who are my friends, so I went to their house one night in terrible pain. His wife asked to look at the sores and I agreed. She told me I needed to come in to his office the following morning. By the way she is a registered nurse and has practiced with her husband, who is now retired(this was two and a half years ago), for about 45 years. She said she had never seen anything like it. But out of curiosity, she got out medical books and started searching for symptoms that matched mine. I forgot to say that in the middle of these two doctors visits I had gone to a dermatologist. He looked at me, did not touch me or do any tests, and diagnosed pruritis/prerrigro.

    When I got to my friends office the next am he had a medical book opened to a page and showed me a picture that did look like my sores, and told me he thought I might have pemphigus vulgaris. I had had a large boil in my groin about a month prior and what I thought was a bad case of thrush, although looking back I find that hard to believe because I had not taken but one seven day round of amoxicillin. He wanted me to go back to the derm and have a biopsie. My husband went with me. The derm was totally insulted that I came back with a request from a regular md for a biopsie for pemphigus vulgaris, but he grudgingly did one. The histological findings suggested an arthropod attack or a drug erruption, with large amounts of eosiniphils and lymphocytes, but could not rule out pruritis. He highlighted, circled and dated the part about not ruling out pruritis and sent me a copy in the mail, which I have. That was the end of that.

    I will say before I forget, that I also have something growing in both of my eyes, and I am blind in one from a childhood accident. I went to a specialist and he said I had penguiculla, my md thought at that point that I had something systemic. Anyway, I wound up being referred to another dermatologist. I went, and his nurse asked all the questions. I knew nothing of Morgellon’s at that point, therefore I knew nothing of the matchbox syndrome. When he walked in the room he had a diagnosis in the folder he had with him. He looked at my back and said, “Yep, just what I thought, you have something called Delusional Parasitosis.” Well I was stunned of course, but the symptoms did seem to fit. So I made an appointment with a pyschiatrist, who I saw for nearly a year. He NEVER would agree to a DOP diagnosis, and ordered a bunch of tests. I had a bad VitaminD def., B-12(I have to take injections), VitaminB-1. I also tested positive for a recent primary infection of EBV. That all explained the tiredness. I went to a third derm and he didn’t diagnose anything, but he told me I needed Orap. I took it, no help. I took Zyprexa, no help.

    My family doc has since gotten frustrated(at least I hope that’s what is wrong with him) and thinks maybe it is DOP, although he admittedly said that I could have any number of things. He said he didn’t have time to find out what was wrong with me and that I was going to have to do my own research. Is there something wrong with that picture? He said he stayed on the phone with an infectious disease doctor in Birmingham, AL for 45 minutes and she refused to see me because he had been treating me for DOP.

    Oh yeah, before I forget, I have always had cold sores on and around my mouth. I did find out that EBV is a subgamma group of Herpes 1 simplex. I carried some samples to a nearby university to a professor of parasitology. He said I had the most intruiging samples he had ever seen. The last time I saw him he gave me a container and told me to try to get it analyzed by a doctor, or lab. He said that it was not supposed to be what he was pretty sure it was, and he had found many in the scabs that he looked at. He said it looked like horsehair worms.

    I know this is completely unrelated, but during all this time we have had four horses, and at least five dogs to die. They were treated by vets. We sent two of the horses to another university for autopsies, and they were badly infested with parasites, they also had sores on them. They said the horses had a strain of Strepp, and named all parasites, except one, and it was unidentified. Right before the sores started we were given two puppies, labs, by friends. They were in and out of the house for a few days. The dogs didn’t have hair on their paws. They both died. I found out later that the whole litter, 11 puppies, and the mother all died.

  69. COMMONSENS I accidently submitted too early. I had all of this for over a year and a half when an aunt in Mobile called me. She knew what was going on. She had seen a local news broadcast about Morgellons. She said it sounded like it might be what I had, so I started trying to research it. I have had fibers, or something, come out of me. I did an experiment on myself, just to prove that I was or wasn’t crazy. I had a sore on my left knee that was particularly strange, it looked like a tunnel going into, or coming out of me. I bought some large waterproof bandages that can be left on for several days, even while bathing. I shaved very well in the area that the sore was and cleaned it with peroxide. I covered it with the bandage for two days and removed the bandage. On the bandage was hundreds of little black things that kind of looked like a very thin hair, and they all bent like a checkmark on one end. Those same things had been coming out of the sores for a very long time off and on.

    Now that all being said, Tallcotton and Smileykins, I truly hope neither of you attack me. I have been through alot, and I am still very sick, although I am mentally better than I have been since it all started. When a doctor tells you that you have a delusional problem and you know it is a very physical one it tends to cause some very real mental trauma. I do know that I have not been seen by the correct doctor, simply because my then family doc couldn’t find it in his heart to get me an appointment. Did I mention that every test except the one with the EBV diagnosis was ordered by my physchiatrist? I would never self diagnose myself with Morgellons or any other disease. I do however know that there is without a doubt alot of people being misdiagnosed with DOP. I need to see an infectious disease doctor, I am tired of taking things on my own just to see if it will help. It is a shame how some people have been treated by the medical profession. I have researched DOP enough to know that it is a diagnosis of exclusion. I’m pretty sure that means that all other possibilities should be ruled out. If there is anyone on this forum that can lead me to some proper medical attention, please do. To those of you that do have a mental problem, may God bless you. To the ones who don’t, may God also bless you, and I pray that there will be answers, true ones, whether we agree or not, in the near future. In the meantime, try to be strong. My email is

    Oh, and about the matchbox syndrome, this may sound disgusting, but it’s the truth. I had thrown up what looked like small worms or larva the night before I went to that derm, he threw the sample in the trash. No one has mentioned anything about that in any of my medical records. They have put in writing about everything I have told them, but not that. I have not thrown up since, if I even think I’m going to be sick like that I take something. There you go guys, I guess you for sure have something to make fun of now. There is plenty more, but like I said, I was trying to keep it short. Sorry if I sound hateful, I just know that you are wrong about at least some of the people that you think are crazy Morgies. Like I said I am not saying I have Morgellons, but I know what I don’t have. And I do know that that is a classic symptom of DOP. So if that is the case, what is left to say? You guys probably wouldn’t believe things if you saw it with your own two eyes. There is no way to be right in the book of people that believe that everyone that has ever been diagnosed with DOP has it, you people have it all figured out, you’ve got the bases covered.

    It’s no wonder some people think that there are people being paid to be on these forums to, as they say, debunk Morgellons. I think it is all blown way out of proportion, and that people in the powers that be should get up off their butts and find out if it’s real or not. If it is and folks are afraid of what the American people will do, then for Christ’s sake just call it something else and help people who are suffering. I am quite aware that these sites are being monitored. Although I am not a big computer buff, someone near and dear has lots of knowledge about them, and has found several viruses that were loaded on my computer from sites I have been to doing my research. If it happens again I guess he will just have to crash and reload again. I have proof of what I just said, it is the truth. The sites were all Morgellon sites. I had 177 viruses at one point in time, ain’t that something? That near and dear person is my husband, and the owner of a communications company. He has been offered jobs in the past from the FBI. Ain’t that something, too? He can do things that would amaze the average person, yet he can’t stop our computer from getting viruses loaded on it from Morgellon sites. Go figure. I had to get that off my chest, the reason I decided to post this comment was in hopes that someone who has any “commonsens” might know where to lead me to for some help. Call it what you want I don’t care, I need medical treatment.

  70. Niecy, you do need medical treatment. You need treatment for your own specific conditions. I totally understand that it must be very frustrating to be diagnosed with delusions when you think that you have a physical problem. I can also understand how it must feel encouraging to hear of other people who have been through the same kind of problems with their doctors.

    But the fact that other people had similar problems with their doctors does not mean they all have the same physical disease. It seems more like they all have various different underlying causes of their symptoms, and at have all arrived at “Morgellons” more out of a sense of frustration with their doctors, than with any actual common set of symptoms.

    Please consider for a moment that it’s not a simple choice of “disease” vs. “delusion”. It sounds like you have some very real physical problems, and, as you said yourself, this has placed some mental strain on you. Both physical and mental issues need to be addressed, but they need to be addressed specifically for you as an individual.

  71. Michael I don’t mean to sound disrespectful of anyones opinion, so please don’t take it that way. I have been treated for well over two years for the mental issues. I still get new sores on a regular basis. My problem, and this is where I can symphathize with others, is that I have not gotten proper treatment for my physical problems. It was never even suggested that I had DOP by my doctor who knew me, and my medical history, until quite some time after the derm diagnosed it. He still didn’t believe it, and set out to prove it. For some reason he decided since all the tests he ran came back negative that “maybe” I did have DOP. My mother died of stomach cancer in 1994. She had been going to the doctor for three years prior to them actually finding the cancer, which was after exploratory surgery. Do you get where I am coming from. I do know from personal experience that doctors miss things, don’t put the puzzle together, ect. I am just very afraid that doctors are using this mystery to keep from doing their job, which is to treat their patients. If that one derm had not said that, I would never be where I am today. There is something wrong and I am a victim of some crazy controversial issue, and I can’t do anything about it. I really feel like there are alot of others, so to speak, in my shoes. By the way, I have had a Gastro-ontologist, and an Endochronologist to laugh at the suggestion that I have DOP after seing me, hearing from day one to now what has happened, and even doing their own tests that, by the way, were negative. As has been mentioned on every site I have been to, and I am sorry, but you defend them, dermatologists are diagnosing DOP, mine without one single procedure. He didn’t so much as get my biopsie report, which with my vitamin deficiencies, should say alot more than DOP. I don’t even care anymore about how I got treated by him or anyone else. I just think that people should consider themselves, what if they are say, part right and part wrong. There are some very sick people out here, and it ain’t mental illness for all of them. The ones who are in real trouble are the ones that you are wrong about. I was in Florida twice in the prior six months to breaking out, I also did alot of landscaping that summer. I have found out that ascariasis is endemic on the gulf coast, which “could” explain my internal problems, but not the lesions. So being as simple minded as I am I just typed in the tool bar, something to the tune of, can you get lesions on your body if you have ascariasis. You can take a look for yourself, but guess what?? If there are jelly-fish present when you get infected, you can get skin lesions!!!! Once again, not self diagnosing, just saying I was there, and you can probably find out for yourself someway, but there was more jelly-fish than I had ever seen in my life, if I combined all my trips to the coast, did I mention I am a huge beach lover?? Florida is my favorite place in the world. That was in February of 2005. Some people may be too sick to piece their own puzzle together, who knows, you all may be right, but you could just as easily be wrong. I am pretty sure it’s a little of both. I have some serious problems with my vision, as I said, I am blind in one eye. I have a BIG problem going blind!!! If there is any possibility that some of the Morgellons theories are correct, then that is a huge possibility. I am frustrated, but not at you, or anyone else on any of these sites. Like I said, I have been monitoring you guys for quite some time. You are fighting for something you “believe” in just like they are. There is alot of malpractice going on, on both sides of the fence. I just wish I didn’t have whatever it is that I have that has led me to you. No offense, but I’d just as soon to have never known about any of this. I guess I am hoping that someone who can tell when someone is mentally ill, or if it is most likely physical, will read my story and help me. I was on the forum on the Wal Street Journal Reader, and someone was communicating with me, they sounded like they might know something, but guess what??? They shut the darn thing down!! Have a good day, and if you know how to help without pointing in the direction of a pyschiatrist, then please do. My phsch doc probably thinks he’s got this. HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE!!!!

  72. Michael, I am curious about you. Like I have said I am not a great researcher, so I don’t know how to get info on people. I could find out where you are located easy enough, but that is irrelevant. What is your profession? Why are you so interested in this debate? Are you a doctor? Have you had problems? I am not trying to be ugly at all. I am just curious about why you have this forum. Apparently it is something of great importance to you, and I would just like to know why. You have to know somewhere in your heart that “all” the people who visit your site are not delusional. I do on the other hand know that there are some out there who are. I cringe when I read some of the posts on these forums, but people should be able to distinguish rational people from those who are delusional, especially if they are going to make any judgments. I just wonder what happened to make you become so interested in the whole thing. I am by nature a curious person, I should have just called myself Curious:) Also, “commonsens” I, in particular posted on this forum to ask about the report that you said was coming out the first of January. Is it available? I posted an email address on my first comment that you can send information to, if you would rather do it like that. You all have a great day!!!

  73. Niecy, I don’t know what is causing your symptoms. I don’t know what’s causing the symptoms of anyone who thinks they have “Morgellons”. That not what this site is about. You own health is best discussed with your doctors, and not people on the internet who have never met you and know nothing about you.

    This site simply exists to discuss if there actually is any evidence of a new disease called Morgellons, and if the fibers play any role in the illnesses of those who think they are afflicted. All I can do is look at the evidence that has been presented by the MRF and thier associates. The evidence seems NOT to support their claims, so I point this out.

    This is just scientific skeptical analysis. I look at the evidence behind scientific claims, and I see where it is lacking.

    I’m not a doctor or a patient. I’m just a retired computer programmer, and I started doing this simply as a hobby – since I’m interested in scientific skepticism. I keep doing it because it’s interesting, and because I believe that good strong science is eventually going to be more helpful to the sufferers than bad science – even if it does not tell them what they immediately want to hear.

  74. Michael, I couldn’t agree with you more on a couple of points. Please don’t mis- interpret my statement about finding some help. I don’t think that I would be wrong in assuming that doctors are also monitoring this forum. I gave my email(my Morgellons email) in case there was one who might point me in the right direction, since my personal physcian told me he did not have time to find out what is wrong. I have worked in the insurance field in the past and I have been doing alot of research lately, simply because my doctor said that to me. It just blew me away!! I have two witnesses to that fact. But once again, that is not the point, the point is that I have to find help myself. I was approved for a study at NIH, and after reviewing my travel history, I was turned down, because I had not been out of the country. There has to be someone out there that would agree that there are things coming into this country through our port cities, and all the illegal(and legal) immigrants. I wonder if the CDC, or anyone else has figured out how to put up an invisible wall to keep the black flies, that can travel 400 miles a day out of America and in Mexico, where they come from?

    And you also don’t need to assume that I think that I have Morgellons, you couldn’t be farther from the truth. I personally think that is just a name people have given to a set of symptoms that resemble(and probably sometimes is) DOP. I am also a skeptic. I like proof. I have seen none from either side of this debate. I also believe, as you do, that science will eventually give us all the answer, I am however not as convinced as you that people will be all that surprised at the answer. I wasn’t particularly interested in science as a hobby as you say you are, until this all happened to me. I most likely have a problem that is totally unrelated, but as you, I got interested in the debate also. I am not asking you or anyone else on your forum for medical advice, I would be if you were a doctor and could prove it with credentials. I do think that there is a racket going on with the MRF and Dr. Harvey. I contacted them and was referred to only two doctors in Colorado. If they have evidence as they say they do, they should be able to recommend doctors anywhere in the country, and I live a long way from Colorado, and don’t fly.

    I think everyone should be open minded, as long as it doesn’t cloud their judgment about this, until some facts are produced. I do have a problem blowing all of this off as delusional because you see, whether you or anyone else believes me or not, I simply don’t care, I do have symptoms like alot of these sufferers. And I assure you I knew nothing about Morgellons or DOP when they started. I searched my symptoms for over a year and a half and the word Morgellons never came up, nor did DOP, but lots of other things did, and the symptoms all resemble each other very much. So I will just hang out with everyone and see what happens myself. I won’t wait on the answer to this debate for my own health, I will find a doctor, even if my insurance won’t pay. You can rest assured that insurance is playing a major role in keeping the research at bay, and pharmacy companies, and their investors also. They should know that either way, they are going to make alot of money, physical or delusional, it will have to be treated. As I said earlier, the way I found out about Morgellons was from an aunt in Mobile, who saw it on a local news broadcast. On a last note I will tell you that the tiger misquito, that had been eradicated in America, the vector for Malaria, it has been found in Memphis, TN. We should all be concerned about what is coming to our country. I hope that you do not think I am crazy for stating my opinions here. I have watched your forum for quite some time and I do find it entertaining and sometimes informative.

  75. Did anyone else hear about a province in China that was closed down 4 years ago due to the Avian Flu outbreak? (Bird Flu).

    I guess not hey.

    Therefore Michael science WILL prove the existence of Morgellons to be more than text book DOP. I believe they got it wrong way back.

    Watch the news, read the papers, the human race keeps doing it, repeating itself and making a real mess of things.

    When are people going to wake up?

    And yes I am crazy and extremely proud!!

  76. Gillian, We are all crazy in someone’s opinion. I don’t think you are any crazier than me or Michael, or Smileykins, or Tall Cotton, or anyone else. I do have these symptoms, as you may have, or someone you know. I haven’t heard about the province in China, but I don’t doubt it. I agree, they probably had DOP wrong way back, but I guess we will have to be patient and wait for the truth, they say the truth always prevails, I hope they are right. We are going to have to rely on our(my) gov’t to find the truth, hopefully they will be forthright with it. I’m not sure where you are from, I’m thinking not here. I have saw your posts on other blogs and forums, I hope that you are well. If you want to you can send me the info on the province in China, my email is in an earlier post. I’m not saying ANYONE is crazy, but surely to God we all aren’t. I found some posts last night on another blog that I saved that one of the debunkers posted some time back, and they call Morgies crazy!!! And hey, if I’m crazy, I’m right there with you and darn proud of it!! I somehow doubt that either one of us is crazy, contrary to popular opinion. I said I didn’t want to argue, just to get info. They say this site is to find facts from MRF and associates that proves their theory. I think some facts need to be presented by the CDC and NIH, what about you??? Have a great day!!!

  77. If anyone knows where there is an active blog or forum please let me know. Thanks!!

  78. Hi Niecy,

    Yep I’m with you, some facts do need to be presented by the CDC and NIH. How MANY YEARS have we been waiting???

    No I’m not really crazy, I just like to say that these days, make fun of my mental illness or illnesses or whatever it is I have.

    I wouldn’t know of any forums or blogs I’m sorry, I stay off the internet these days.

    I am doing ok thanks, yes I have this condition. I hope you are coping ok. I don’t have any info to send you about the province in China, I was told that by someone who was told first hand, nothing I read on the internet. Apparently a few hundred deaths from the bird flu. China have a lot of outbreaks of diseases etc, and never report it to any other country (so I was told).

    Niecy have you seen a UFO whilst suffering this condition? I did last July.

    Hope you have a great day too.

    P.S. I’m an Aussie!

  79. Gillian, I thought you might be an Aussie!!! That’s one country I would love to visit one day!! I have a favorite singer that is from there, you have probably heard of him, Keith Urban!! I loved the Bee Gee’s too!! I’m fairly positive that we are not crazy. We have some friends who moved here from China and they are trying to contact a particular doctor for me(can’t speak the language), I had read somewhere that there is a doctor there that has been treating this since 1994, and that this has been in China for over 300 years. I can look it up, I save everything of importance. Anyway, he claims he knows exactly what it is, and it is treatable. I just have a sneaky suspicion that our gov’t is well aware of this fact. They are probably very concerned that if they admitted it it might cause another civil war. There are many people in America that totally disagree with our trade agreement. We are of the opinion that our corporations should keep the manufactoring jobs within our own borders. You know what the Bible says about money being the root of all evil? I think this is a perfect example. I used to work for a fortune 500 company about 18 to 20 years ago, and I know that the job I had paid close to $11.00 an hour, the very same job in Mexico paid a whopping .75 an hour!! I realize it is about profit, but it shouldn’t be at the cost of American(or anyone elses) peoples health. I wouldn’t even have a problem with that if they would step up and admit that there are diseases coming into this country, probably many, many times A DAY!!! The freaking immigrants know what it is, because they have lived in these countries all their lives, or at least have many family members who do. Do you ever see a Mexican, who is not on crack or meth, with sores on them? Our small town is probably at least 25% Mexicans, and this has happened in the last 10 years!!! I also have never seen an Indian, Chinaman, or Japanese, I even know some Philipino’s, with these skin problems. They have known about these things for centuries, and know how to treat them. And before some of you haters jump on this bandwagon, they are not going to offer US any advice, they know that if too many of them did that, we would know they are bringing it with them and ship their butts out of here. Gillian, I am sorry, I have not seen any UFO’s. We used to pretend when we were kids that we saw them to scare each other. But I even challenge anyone to PROVE that they don’t exist. What’s happenening is alot of people think that what they believe is an absolute. I was taught in school that there is no such thing. Who know’s maybe, maybe not. I do know that there are alot of people who say they have seen them. Whether I believe in them is irrelevant, because I simply don’t know. I, at this point in my life, do know that almost anything is possible. Have you ever read up on the history of the Myan people? Might be interesting for you. I truly hope that we get some answers soon! I also wish you well! If you have found any treatments yourself that help, I would be grateful to hear them. You are welcome to use my email if you don’t want to post here. Have a good one!! Niecy

  80. Michael, where the heck did “Nancy’s” comment about the “ctu ringtones for DOP” go? I looked at Randy’s post and went back and the darn thing had been removed? Did you remove it? Just asking, I don’t know who the heck Nancy is, but I did want to take a listen at the ringtones. I didn’t know if they might make my day!!! Have a good one girl!!!

  81. “ringtone” posts are usually spam, and get deleted automatically.

  82. k, I was just making sure I wasn’t seeing things. I was curious as to whether people were making up songs to make fun of “morgies”, I found it though, and you are right, it was junk. Probably had a bad virus attached to it. It’s good to know that you are monitoring this blog to protect our computers. Thanks!!

  83. Michael, I guess someone must be trying to tell me something. I just posted a reply to you, thanking you for monitoring this site in an effort to protect peoples computers. I don’t know where it went. Maybe you can find it, but just in case, I will tell you again, Thanks!!! But apparently I goofed up, my pc just cut off my connection, and it disappeared, kind of like the post from Nancy that I was speaking about. I was very confused, it was there, then it wasn’t, then it was again, and now it’s not. It may start making me look crazy if it keeps happening, cause I just have to let you know that something is amiss. I hope I don’t have another virus on the computer, it sure is acting strange. But I think that it can be manipulated, if the right person is doing it. You are a professional computer programmer, do you have any idea what happened?? I did hit the site, but I did’t open anything up. My computer has been operating very smoothly until this happened. I guess I shouldn’t have went there. Anyway, thanks for trying to keep a clean site. I really have gotten alot of bad stuff from some other sites. Have a great one!!! I am really not very computer literate, as you can tell.

  84. Michael, Am I banned from this site, I can’t seem to be able to submit a comment. I was just trying to say thank you for keeping a watch on your site. Let me know if I have said anything unacceptable.

  85. Well, I am not sure what it means when you say “your comment is awaiting moderation”, but I guess I can just wait and see. I certainly hope I havn’t posted any comments that are unacceptable, if I have please tell me. I may have been confused about what this blog is all about.

  86. Hi Niecy,

    You asked me if I new of any treatments that may help? Please don’t take this the wrong way, but the best advice I could give you at the moment is to stay off the internet, especially any Morgellons forums.

    Try to continue your life as normal as possible. Eat the right food, go to sleep, get up, do normal things. That is the best advice I can give you, as well as, think positive. You will get better, you don’t need pills or drugs that claim to “cure”, maybe try fish oil tablets, I take them & find them of great benefit.

    As for the UFO, it was actually last June I saw this, not July as I had previously stated in the above post. I didn’t realise until late last year that it was a UFO. I was listening to a talk back radio show and some people had seen the exact same thing as me and described how it made them feel. This UFO looked like a hoving, dancing ball of light in the sky, shaped like the star of David, I didn’t think it was a UFO at the time. I was extremely delusional so I justified what it was, I believed it was Richard Bransons new space craft and some of my family were in it trying it out and they had stopped in the sky to look down at me. I had a sense of connection with this thing in the sky, but it new I was looking, and I knew it that it knew, if you understand.

    Put it this way when I heard the radio announcer reading emails from people describing what I saw & the feelings it gave them which were the same as myself, my jaw dropped, I turned the radio off & went to sleep, I wanted to forget all about it.

    Take care of yourself, & please try to take my advice, you will feel better.

  87. I neglected to mention that I saw the UFO in Melbourne, and heard it on the radio in Brisbane.

    Niecy, the reason I mentioned to take fish oil capsules is that they are great for the skin & joints, but most importantly they are excellent for the brain.

    I haven’t seen any Mexicans recently. I’d be a little careful if I were you saying things about different nationalities on the internet. Honest, it does hurt to be called names, I should know, I was bullied my entire school years. People can get nasty on the internet and then that hurt spills over into your every life and it just becomes a mess. Take care, & all the best.

    See ya.

  88. If this is to be truly an investigative site and debate, then it requires an open mind, from both for suffers who believe it is real and those who believe it is delusion. Why is an open mind so difficult to have? As a sufferer, I am willing to say it is possible that it is all in my head, but at the same time, physicians and other professionals should be willing to accept that not all diseases afflicting mankind have been discovered. The “evidence” of Delusional Parasitosis are traits that any person with an unknown disease would have. In order to prevent people who are really sick from going to “quacks”, we must have real researchers doing empirical research – the difference being that real researchers use empirical research and involves full documentation of procedures and findings. Too bad there is no experimental proof from psychaitry…

  89. Bubba, it’s not a simple choice here between “real” and “delusional”. A better question to ask is “do all these people have the same thing?” Given the vast range of symptoms, it seems fairly clear that they do not.

    Given that, then you need to treat each person individually. I don’t know if a particular individual is delusional or not. I do know that lots of people who think they have Morgellons also have very real physical diseases such as diabetes, cancer, kidney problems, dermatitis, and many other conditions that could be behind many of their symptoms they attribute to “Morgellons”. They need to be treated for their real conditions.

    It’s a complex situation. Trying to force the issue into “disease vs. delusion” is not helping anyone.

  90. You guys listening in on CDC telecast tomorrow?

  91. I agree that these “fibers” people are finding in their skin are most likely just clothing or other debris.

    When you have a fixation on possibly having a disease, your mind will play tricks on you. Everyone itches sometimes. Your hands are dirty so your nose starts itching. Some people are hyper aware of their body and will focus on intently on a weird sensation- no matter how normal.

    People then begin to pick at their skin causing open wounds. As these wounds heal, fibers stick to the scab. This happens to everyone. Those who believe they have a disease because of these fibers really do, it is called hyperchodriosis. This just means that they are more in tune with their body and over-react at normal sensations.

    There are many diseases which do cause skin lesions. For example, a large release of histamine due to allergies can cause skin eruptions.

    Hyperchondriacs are more likely to experience fatigue because they tend to exercise less due to percieved limitations. They are hyperaware of foot discomfort, elevated heart rate, and heavy breathing inherrent in much exercise.

    Unfortunately, as the media and web report this condition, more lay people and possibly even medical professionals will believe that morgellons is a real disorder. It is not. But because people take things at face value without bothering to investigate the facts, more people will diagnose themselves, their kids, and pets with the disease. This will lead to more skin picking- even in the vulnerable children and pets.

    Thank you for this great website. I hope it reaches more people. But when adversaries come along continue to be patient; most people will succomb to popular opinion than reason.

  92. I need help with all the others this thing has been with me for at least 20 years or more dr. say it is in my head

  93. i am a morgellons sufferer .and alot of people will not care un less it happens to them . i tried to save some baby birds and this is my life now. im learning how to cure myself.its a slow process but its working.

    i believe its an insect that people are not used to seeing since they do live on wild birds if someone would work with me i thnink we can forget about these persons that dont try to make it their mission to save all of our lives we are goin to have to figure this out trick em’ and save our selves from this crazinesss once and for all we should not have to continue this way.if we do the whole world gonna get it.folks used to itch just by standing next to me but we can not always stay indoors. what are the medical professionals gonna do when there are way to many .its overwhelming i learned how these things work and not one person has the decency to listen to me. who knows this might work……..

    if morgellons is delutional why am i trying to go to school with these tormenting symptoms .i used to walk 5 miles a day and had a full time job .my grandbaby crys for me my marriage was o.k. and now our lives are miserable.but we are not giving up.we are continuing to fight and we will win this thing or die trying.nothing is going to suck the life out of me without a fight. lets work together from one human being to another.2704040158

  94. Sandra, Im sorry you have the type of problem you do. Since you can’t help yourself, you need a STRONG health advocate to go with you to the doctor and take you through the ropes of the medical system. Do you know how to find someone to do that? I’ll try to help point you into the right direction if you don’t. I hope that someone will also be there for you to kick some royal ass and sue the MRF, and every single one of the “researchers” after the truth about what they’ve done to all of you comes out into the open.

  95. I am not a sufferer but on the other end. It has been a long battle trying to get help for my wife ,it went from ocd (bad) to someone telling her about morgellons. It went all downhill from there , dr. didn’t know what to do ,couldn’t see anything that she was seeing , the scrubbing or should I say self mutlilation wasnt’ even mentioned to him until I told him ,things changed , she is getting proper help now ,it is a slow battle ,but I can see an end to it now. Why would you fight to have a desease that can not be cured and lose friends family jobs etc. over it. The most research being done is by the patients themselves and the pc savvy ones that can encourage others about this. Worst place to diagnose yourself is on the internet, Go to your dr. and do whatever he says , . I can’t help you ,I don’t know you ,I can’t see you , Your dr. can and he will help you . Half those symptons are so loose it fits anything and that is why you come to a conclusion of this .

  96. Hi everyone, Im just strolling thru, I do not have this terrible new attrosity of Morgellons. however My heart and soul have led me to take interest in the many peopleaffected by it.
    I wanted top share my own thoughts with anyone who will just read, analyze and think about my input. Im just a normal person, passing thru life. And Morgellons got my attention. In all my research as a whole this disease is decribed across the board the same, everywhere. In my searching I have yet to see any real answers to the originality. I have seen the experts in thier scientific terms and norms try to label different aspects. yet No definate answer and many clueless humans as to the genetic makeup of this monster.

    My most interesting find was two part, at you will find infected areas in the USA, by state who registered at that site as infected families,
    It caught my attention right away when i seen three of the states, I immediately knew for some reason what those three states have in common. And the areas of most infection in those states are common with each other. The concentrated areas of know infection are all close to certain Interest Nasa has in all three States. From these states it spreads and clearly any states connected to the three major states of infection, have the next highest infection. by merely looking at that map and the other maps on the site (they show the rest of the wolrd) It is wierd to also see which other countries are infected the most…. clearly one can see this monster originated in USA, at least our modern times. After more research I found another
    (pre-thought idea) of which I soon found out by accident an atricle about an asterioid…. that article confirmed more to me as these tiny fibers in Morgellons patients compare to those from that asteroid. Folks I am not here to freek out people, we have so many things going wrong in the world today, and this I have my own theory, and I made a site to explain my theory, I pray for all the victims which face Morgellons, and I hope and pray the answers from it’s origin will be found. Personally I do think it is foreign to our way of thinking and our world. Brought here by us unknowingly. read more at Thanks for letting me say my peice. God bless all of you!

  97. JustOBserving, especially since you don’t feel that you have “morgellons disease”, and feel that you know God, I respectfully suggest you try considering gathering legitimate facts, and rethinking all of the things you state. God doesn’t want people having, and spreading, those kinds of thoughts. Get well. Smileykins.

  98. With all the lies and cover-ups in this world what do we believe anymore. The Officials never tell us about anything till it seems to be epidemic . I get the sores with the white or clearish fibers and some have been about half the size of a pea. When they first appeared I thought bug bites or zits. When you are able to remove these it really hurts, sometimes they repeat in the same spot before the sore will ever heal. The sores will vary, at first I thought they were bed bugs. I have also had very serious vision problems that come from out of nowhere (very scary) . The Brain tripping symptoms you experience out of who knows where are undescribable and not anything you have ever felt in life! What is in my brain? Was that someone elses acid Trip or bad dream? I am a very simple person, how does this crazy stuff get in to my head. What is very scary is when you block out all the lunacy of this world and consider yourself one of few people left with common sense or manners and try to live away from a dillusional society Revolving around ,Tv , Identity, social status , Phoney Television miracle drugs , and all the other make believe that leaves people unsatisfied with themselves and to never be content. I have tried many different eating habits and health alternatives and these problems keep coming back. How many names or theories will be suggested for these same problems that so many people are dealing with? Who or what is alltering our lives with all the illness going around. Why does the health and standard of living keep declining in america?

  99. The more I search the internet the more I find that physicians think or say that anyone such as patients or others who believe they have morgellans or something quite similar are delusional or mental! SO WRONG ! What a lame excuse ! These doctors must be delusional or something like retarded ! How can these symtoms be denied or called something else that have nothing to do with these freakin things that keep popping up from under the skin? I am not crazy ! You want to see crazy, keep watching Television ! To see me go crazy you would have to try to hurt someone I love , or put me in rush hour gridlock. These so called specialists can see the proof growing under my skin , the scars are all over my arms. If I am Crazy what are these these strands that keep trying to exit my skin. If I am Just Delusional , then why should I feel embaresed when people see my arms, whether I pull the fiber strands or I dont these things are nasty looking! We live in a world of denial that covers just about everyone and everything. Reality is a lost Quality in so many aspects of most peoples lives, But I’m supposed to be imagining all these problems that I and many others are suffering from. They are kidding right? No its for real what ever we call it. This skin thing is sweeping the nation and people afflicted cant seem to find a way to get rid of it. Did I catch it in Arizona, Florida , Illinois, Kentucky , Montana , Or one of the other places I have lived or worked. Sometimes I feel like if I never left the mountains of Az. I may have never caught it. Who Knows? I spend alot of time outdoors no matter where in the Country I am ! Out west people think its from the contrails , Some out here say its mountain man disease comparing the trippy things that happen to my thought process like Lee Marvin in the movie paint your wagon. The singing in that movie is far more delusional than the character Marvin plays! In Florida some say Nasa is the cause others say the swamp. Maybe its dirty beaches, will we ever find the truth behind these symtoms? I know I am not crazy, and I hope the rest of those out there suffering can keep a hold of true reality so the experts cant just call you crazy. Always remember the ignorance of the specialists who tried to deny aids, the easy suggestion of sex w/ a monkey is rediculous. Like one person made primate lovin and now the whole world is scared about or suffering a thing called aids. The system scared generation X with aids so much and in this new age of stupidity you almost dont even hear about aids anymore. In the USA its seems American idol is like the most important thing society is faced with. Dead soldiers get the back burner while the news talks about some stupid dance show ! What is ebolia ? Are the SARS stories true? Why havent we heard about it lately? How did west nile pop up so quick? I never heard of it till I lived in Chicago, then all those people started dropping like flies. Within in two years it was in Arizona a state that is so dry Mosqitoes can hardly survive the desert. So what or who creates these diseases? Could we blame Nature or God. Since government and Society keep trying to deny that there is any type of higher order spiritually. Maybe we should blame it on the New Order, Oh wait that cant be for real either. Your inner wealth and sanity are the only things left that are’nt taxed or regulated, So can you guess whats next. I feel for all those suffering from any of the denied sicknesses that plague the earth. I am With you all in the heart , mind, and SOUL ! May your god be with you ! Please america WAKE UP !

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