The following CBS11 report suggests that a “dramatic new breakthrough” in the field of Morgellons was revealed at the recent Morgellons conference:
There may be a dramatic new breakthrough for hundreds of Texans who suffer from a mysterious disease. CBS 11 News was the only station at a medical conference that uncovered new research in the fight to prove Morgellons Disease is real.
In 2007, Dr. Stricker and experts in agrobacterium studied skin samples from seven Morgellons patients and found the DNA from the bacteria in all seven samples. Now the question is, how are people getting the bacteria in their bodies.
Firstly, this is not new, it’s over a year old. These findings were reported in January, 2007 – over a year ago.
Secondly, and more importantly, there is a very easy explanation as to how the bacteria got in their bodies: catheters. It’s very simple, and hinges upon three facts:
- The most common cause of agrobacterium infection is from intravenous catheters.
- Dr. Stricker uses intravenous catheters to treat his Morgellons and late-stage Lyme patients.
- Dr. Stricker supplied the samples used to test for agrobacterium
It seems then that these agrobacterium infections may not be a part of Morgellons, but are more likely a result of Dr. Strickers’ treatment methods.
(EDIT: See Dr Smith’s response, in the comments section).
Dr Smith says:
In these patients, agrobacterium was NOT cultured from the patients’ body. The DNA was detected by PCR testing in Dr. Vitaly Citovsky’s lab at StonyBrook. The samples submitted were skin biopsy specimens done on out-patients in the course of routine offiice visits. The patients were not acutely ill at the time and none had an in-dwelling catheter at the time. It is my understanding that 7 of 7 patients with Morgellons tested positive for agrobacterium and 0 of control patients were positive.
Let’s assume that is accurate, and see what other reasons there could be for this group of patients to have Agrobacterium in their skin samples.
First let’s ask what the difference is between the “Morgellons” patients and the control patients. From the Morgellons case definition:
3. Skin lesions, both (a) spontaneously appearing and (b) self-generated, often with pain or intense itching. The former (a) may initially appear as “hive-like”, or as “pimple-like” with or without a white center. The latter (b) appear as linear or “picking” excoriations.
“Self-generated” here means that the patient generates their own lesions by scratching and picking. The medical term for this is Neurotic Excoriations. There is a remarkable similarity between the lesions of patients with Neurotic Excoriations, and many (but not all) patients who claim to have Morgellons.
The control subjects were healthy individuals (lab workers), who did NOT have Neurotic Excoriations.
Hence another possible explanation for this study is that people with Neurotic Excoriations are greatly more susceptible to Agrobacterium infection (especially in the skin), than the general population. This seems very reasonable, as for the lesions to be “self-generated”, it would take constant repeditive scratching for many months. Fingernails get dirt under them. Dirt harbors agrobacterium. The scratching transfers agrobacterium to the skin.
Correlation does not imply causation. The presence of agrobacterium in a group of seven, while being absent in a control group, is statistically significant enough to warrant investigation. The presence of agrobacterium is likely indicative of some factor that the seven patients shared. I’ve given two possible shared factors here: 1) They were all patients of Dr. Stricker, and 2) They scratch their skin far more than is healthy. It is not hard to come up with other commonalities, such as the unusual use of certain medications prescribed by Stricker, or even the equipment and envirionment used to collect the samples.
This post is a response to claims of a “dramatic new breakthrough”, and I simply hope to point out that this is no such thing, but simply a statistically interesting observation that currently indicates absolutly nothing, but perhaps warrants further study.
Indeed it may well turn out that Agrobacterium IS a common infection in patients with Neurotic Excoriations, and this may be a previously undiscovered common complication, which doctors can then treat. Meaning it could actually be a useful breakthrough, but not directly to do with the assertion that Morgellons is a distinct disease.
you people need to get your heads out of your asses, it wouldn’t matter if every accredited doctor in the world agreed that this disease was real and a result of a parasitic infection, you idiots would still try to discredit them, which means absolutely nothing because all of you mean absolutely nothing, none of you have any credentials, no one cares what your opinion is, really, why not try being a productive citizen for a change instead of making such fools of yourselves
Actually Steve, I think that if just 1% of doctors agreed, then the situation would be very different. As it is, only a handful of Doctors think that Morgellons is a distinct condition.
But back on topic, what do you make of the connection between intravenous catheters, Stricker, and agrobacterium?
The number of doctors who agree has nothing to do with whether this is real or not; they’re all idiots anyway. As for the connection, I don’t think it helps or hurts your case one bit. Why do you bother, anyway? You’re not convincing anyone.
Hello, Steve. Has Professor Wymore gotten back with you, yet, concerning your bryozoan hypothesis?
Hi, Argh. It’s unethical, immoral, illegal, etc., to do what’s being done to such seriously ill and unassuming members of our society.
Let’s consider the category of muchausen patients within the “morgellons disease spectrum”. They want to be sick to begin with. All right, so if they can end up getting a serious infection as a result of an unethical doctor who can get some real easy money from them, it’s a marvelous longterm set-up for both sides. It’ll screw ’em up, but that’s a munchausen patient’s way, so they’ll be forever thankful. Yes, they need mental assistance, but it ain’t happenin’.
When it comes to the munchausen syndrome by proxy members in the group, I can’t even express my anger appropriately.
But now think of the category of mentally ill patients with primary and secondary delusional parasitosis who are within the “morgellons spectrum”. These patients lack insight and can’t accept that their underlying mental health condition needs treated, so the concurrent illness, as well as the main one causing it, goes on and on. These patients, as well, “see it” in little babies and pets in their care. It’s wrong, and, according to them, many of their pets have died at the hands of their owners.
Take the category of secondary organic delusional parasitosis patients. Since they have, also, in many cases, gone to a bunch of dermatologists, repeatedly, instead of internal medicine practitioners, their undetected physical conditions and the resulting psychosis are going untreated as well.
All of these patients need REAL medical assistance in REAL forms. I don’t appreciate “morgellons disease” being put out there like it’s been, exploiting every one of these types of patients, from one end of the spectrum to the other, warning everyone of a new disease. The quacks who only have to say, “I believe you”, and talk crazy talk back to them, are harming all of society, in the process, and creating more antibiotic resistance.
I didn’t edit. Sorry. I also didn’t cover the whole plethora of conditions entailing what “morgellons disease” is. Well, who could cover all that it is, when it isn’t any ONE thing? My gosh, it’s itching, scratching, picking, or not, digging or rubbing damaged epidermis that hasn’t sloughed off, collecting the debris and looking at all, including blood, snot, and every type of fluid, thinking it’s something it isn’t, and getting sicker as time goes on. Why? All because so many people didn’t pay attention to their doctors, over and over again. And then, along came Mary.
It is one thing to spend your time ‘debunking’ a disease–if that is the way one wishes to spend one’s time. However, making up facts to explain an odd medical finding is really not appropriate. Attributing the finding of agrobacterium DNA in Morgellons patients to the presence of in-dwelling catheters (which is, indeed, the most common reason for human infection with agrobacterium) is such a mis-statement of the facts that I had to correct your assumption.
Generally, agrobacterium infections are associated with seriously ill patients who are often in an intensive care unit. The infection begins in their intravenous catheter and is a known potential complication of such a foreign object being placed in the body. Once the catheter becomes infected, it serves as the focus for an infection of the blood stream–called septicemia. The specific diagnosis of agrobacterium infection is usually made because of blood cultures positive for the bacterium. This infection is treated by removal of the in-dwelling catheter and appropriate antibiotic treatment. When the infection is cleared, the agrobacterium can no longer be found in the patient’s body.
The situation in the patients with Morgellons discussed above is vastly different . In these patients, agrobacterium was NOT cultured from the patients’ body. The DNA was detected by PCR testing in Dr. Vitaly Citovsky’s lab at StonyBrook. The samples submitted were skin biopsy specimens done on out-patients in the course of routine offiice visits. The patients were not acutely ill at the time and none had an in-dwelling catheter at the time. It is my understanding that 7 of 7 patients with Morgellons tested positive for agrobacterium and 0 of control patients were positive. (Sorry I don’t know the number of controls done so far.)
The ultimate meaning of this finding is unknown at this time. Further patient and control testing is planned. Until more research is done the significance of this interesting finding will remain speculative, although Dr. Stricker has indicated he does believe this could be significant in understanding this bizarre disease.
Much more was presented at the Morgellons conference than is apparent from the Dallas news report. For those who would like to get their facts clear before throwing stones, a videotape of the conference will be avabilable in 2-3 weeks from the Charles Holman Foundation (aka The New Morgellons Order) at http://www.TheNMO.org.
FYI, I rarely visit this site or other Morgellons sites and very rarely post on Internet sites. I just thought something approaching reality needed to be presented rather than idle speculation based on incorrect assumptions. I don’t plan to engage in verbal sparring and debate about Morgellons on this or any other web site, so those who delight in personal attacks and nasty comments, make yourselves happy! I shall not respond! If taking cheap shots at me keeps any of you occupied and not picking on other sick patients, that’s a good thing.
Slowly, but surely, facts about Morgellons disease are being discovered by scientists and research physicians. It is, in my opinion, only a matter of time until there is a preponderance of evidence which will demonstrate Morgellons is real. As such information is discovered, I expect the regulars on this site to criticize and critique the research findings. That is your right, if that is the way you wish to spend your time. But when you speculate and make assumptions NOT based on FACTS, you lose any credibility and are certainly not engaging in meaningful discussions.
I agree there are unscrupulous “practitioners” and “quacks” who are taking advantage of some patients. That is regrettable. Dr. Stricker is NOT one of those deplorable and unscrupulous individuals! He is one of a small number of caring physicians trying to make sense of this disease while doing his best to effectively treat affected patients.
I hope Steve returns, because who knows? Perhaps Professor Wymore didn’t respond well to his bryzoan hypothesis, so he replaced it with this.
# EnviroGirl on 18 Mar 2008 at 7:00 am
PUBLISH THE REST OF WHAT I POSTED, MICHAEL – GENETICALLY MODIFIED AGROBACTERIUM…MAD COW, SHEEP GETTING SCRAPPIE, SARS, BIRD FLU, 30,000 DEAD HONEYBEES AND MORGELLON’S DISEASE – NONE OF THIS EVER, EVER, EVER HAPPENED BEFORE GENETICALLY MODIFIED AGROBACTERIUM WAS PUT ON HAY & SPREAD ALL OVER AUSTRALIA, DID IT?! NOOOOO.
…GM HAY THAT WAS FED TO THE CATTLE, FED TO THE SHEEP, IN TURN FED TO HUMANS – EVEN THE NATURAL FORM OF AGROBACTERIUM CAN JUMP KINGDOMS – YOU SELF-PROCLAIMED SCIENCE DORKS SHOULD KNOW THAT FOR A FACT. EVEN THE NON-GENETICALLY MODIDIFIED FORM OF AGROBACTERIUM INFECTS EVERYTHING IT TOUCHES – FROM PLANT TO SOIL TO PLANT TO ANIMAL TO HUMAN – THAT SHOULD BE IN YOUR GEEKY SCIENCE TEXT BOOKS – BECAUSE THE REST OF THE GLOBE (THAT ISN’T CORRUPT) HAS KNOWN THIS TO BE FACTUAL SINCE AT LEAST THE YEAR 2000. BUT EVEN IN 2000, IT WAS ALREADY TOO LATE – IT WAS ALREADY EVERYWHERE…GENETICALLY MODIFIED AGROBACTERIUM – I WOULD BET MY SWEET-LOOKING ASS – IS PROBABLY WHY ORGANIC FOOD WAS EVEN THOUGHT OF IN THE VERY FIRST PLACE!!!
AND HEY, SCIENCE/FACT/PROOF PEOPLE-THIS HERE IS JUST A BLOG – I CAN SAY WTF I WANT, IT’S NOT MY JOB TO PROVE SQUAT – THAT IS GOING TO BE UP TO THIS PESTICIDE COMPANY’S DEFENSE ATTORNEYS – IF THERE’S ANYONE LEFT IN THIS COUNTRY’S GOV THAT ISN’T BOUGHT AND PAID FOR, WHICH I DOUBT…
THE SAME WAY IT’S YOUR RIGHT TO HURT INNOCENT VICTIMS OF MORGELLON’S DISEASE BY YOUR CRUEL, RUDE POSTS HERE – IT IS MY RIGHT TO REACH OUT TO COMFORT THEM & ALLEGE WTF I WANT ON THAT VERY SAME BLOG.
Thought this was interesting
Yes, that is interesting, 911. Imagine if that woman (as I wonder about how many other morgies, as well) were to have MRSA, aside from the dangerous underlying condition resulting in her “incorrect thought processing”.
Some members of the morgellons community are apparently planning to rally in support of her, through emailing authorities in her town to inform them that she isn’t alone in her misery!!! They keep on broadcasting all their “mistaken thought processes”, and how many times so many doctors have told them that they have “incorrect thoughts” (delusions) about what’s ailing them, yet these poor patients just can not process that information. Believing in “morgellons disease” is helping to hurt so many, and will continue to result in a lot of harm yet to be seen.
from above link..
I think all these Police, Fire and Medical Officials are DOP .. Morgellons doesn’t exist!
What is this world coming to when The Fire / Police Dept is delusional!!
wow… I mean the internet spreads imaginary diseases like wildfire!!
it’s even affecting our officials!
This is truly a revelation and should not be discredited.
First, catheters were not inserted into all the people who have Morgellons (like 3 year olds)
Second, I have experience with Agrobacterium and guess what-It’s a species of bacteria that is used to change the genetic makeup of plants-do you know why? It forms a Pilii, or long (albeit microscopic) tube to pierce through another bacteria and funnels the DNA from that bacteria into a third organism (sometimes plants, sometimes bacteria)
THIS IS HUGE. If this is tied to genetically modified organisms-that we all eat I would not be suprised.
It’s not “tied” to genetically modified organisms, plants, or anything else. Morgellons simply does not exist! These people have other things, many other things, but Morgellons is not one of them. Most of the Morgies have been diagnosed as delusional because that’s exactly what they are. They have some real physical ailments, but they also have some that are mental. Most of the researchers are frauds, and the Morgie doctors are all quacks, exploiting their patients without concern for their well being. Do you want facts? Those are the facts!!
Hello Smiley, I have returned so that you can take your best shot but first I was wondering if you would explain why none of you had anything to say to Dr Smith? I have a challange for you and Micheal Smiley, this should be right up your alley too, I would like you to attempt to debunk a theory I have established. This should be easy for you considering the topic and the number of experts that would disagree with me, nevertheless, I have 100% confidence that my theory is correct and am willing to debate it with you if your up for it. The theory names a member of the phylum porifera as the origin of the spongy brain diseases, mad cow and the human variant CJD. If you agree then I will post certain facts about these diseases and demonstrate how these facts correlate with the poriferans and you try to shot holes in it, what do you say?
Porifera is a sponge, so it causes spongy brain disease?
Steve, most scientists agree prions are the cause of CJD, etc. I don’t know much about it, and I don’t want to debate it. Stick to Morgellons.
Steve, I’m extremely concerned about the patients in the morgellons community and all the ramifications. You may rest assured that three years of reading patients’ public accounts has been educating me very well on the causation of your illnesses. I hope that you’ll eventually find direction towards becoming more accepting of the reasons you all have such ideas and behaviors and that your lives improve, whether you want them to or not.
Your reference to scientists agreeing on prions is surely not your best arguement Mike because thats no arguement at all, they don’t have a clue and the answers been staring them in the face for years.
Michael you disappoint me, I’m up on a grandstand claiming to have the answer for countless diseases and your not going to challange me? Come on I’ve got a bullseye on my forehead, like shooting fish in a barrel. Your feeling the energy aren’t you mike, I think your a little intimidated if you ask me. I think your scared that I just might win.
Wel if I can’t get a good debate going then I’m going to use this opportunity to plug my cause, it’s your cause too you just don’t know it yet.
As unbelievable as it may sound, we, the human species, have been the hosts of parasitic sponges for possible as long as we’ve been on this planet. They have been residing in us for so long that we find evidence of their presence in our own DNA, yet science remains ignorant about this presence and instead interprets these findings as evidence of evolution. They could not be further from the truth. A year ago I sided with them, thinking they had the answers because they speak with such authority, but knowledge, intelligence, and a mind free of barriers has shown me the light.
We as a species, along with all of the other vertebrates, are facing the possibility of extinction if we do not rise together and fight this enemy. I challange anyone and everyone to prove me wrong, please prove me wrong, because I would much rather turn and walk away with my head hung low and tail between my legs than to face what I know we are up against. This is the most serious threat to life we have seen or ever will see and it’s destroying us without ever even showing itself.
Look around, illness is everywhere, and it’s getting worse each year. I continue to look at specific illnesses for their connection with each other and I have yet to find one that I cannot explain with my theory, not a single one. All these diseases, as different as they may seem, are a result of the presence of poriferans within our bodies.
Science is well aware of the fact that sponges posses traits that would enable them to perform fantastic feats, science knows that sponges bore into the substrate by chemical or mecahnical means, science knows that there are parasitic sponges and they know what these sponges can do to their hosts. You can find an almost identical scenerio between sponge infested shelled invertebrates and victims of CJD, not just the holes, but the proteins as well, unique proteins.
There is a solid case against the sponge when it comes to the spongy brain diseases how ironic is the name) and if anyone can point out to me why I am wrong please feel free because I didn’t ask for this job, it was handed to me for reasons that I do not fully understand. Fortunantly I was given undenialble confidence along with it, and some support but I can’t go into that yet.
So get your thinking caps on and challange me, but please do so in a scientific manner by referencing facts and findings and not just opinions, I look forward to addressing any and all intelligent inquires.
Okay Steve, show me the evidence, with some statistics, and then we can discuss.
But only if you have statistics.
Scott – Hi & Thanks for hitting the nail on the head! Know anything about Alan Kerr, the Australian Nobel Peace Price Winner? Do you already know what product was made w/what he created? And just how long after his sick experiment was that particular strain of IT welcomed in the U.S. & in what non-crop bearing pesticide? Then, check out (pardon me, if you do know all of this already) – when IT was later used as a crop pesticide, I believe in 1994, officially (?) , BOOM – the first self-reported U.S. case of Morgellon’s that I’ve read of – same year! BINGO, MY FRIEND, WE HAVE A WINNER!
Also, check out, if you don’t already know – what kind of U.S. company recently purchased Kerr’s old employer? – Scary!
IT’s already everywhere, anyway, already, I guess, right?…Scott, can you please tell me what your experience was with agrobacterium? Genetically Modified or non-GM strain? Any advice on how to avoid/make sure it’s dead in ya, if possible/get a test to prove which strain it was, something that will hold up in court?/if I try to have children someday, do you think they be little seedlings?!
I need help w/this – I’m just a person who contracted Morgellon’s when I backed into a tree, cleaning up litter 2 years ago…So, if anyone doesn’t understand my attitude problem w/the ‘skeptics’ and those who insult victims of this disease w/’quotation marks’, pretending they are ‘helping’ while they are really ‘insulting’ Morgies directly, calling them ‘kooks’ in such a ‘polite’ manner – ‘Imagine’ contracting this very real disease that way, without a doubt – IT came from there, that day, I was immediately sick. Fever, flu like, chills, dead tired, itching all over my back, tiny shards of red that deeply embedded in my foot and in my calf, later found a dead tick in my sweater, a swollen nodule grew near where the tree had poked me, I became lactose intolerant w/in 33 days, got sick as a dog in the following months until the MARKS exploded across my shoulders, purple…I know the exact tree and I will never forget the sharp, hot pain…That tree is still there, rotting black sap out it’s roots and there’s not a thing I can do to have it taken down.
So, then ‘imagine’, you get ‘something’ that ruins your life after cleaning up litter and then not being able to get help from a parade of doctor-clowns after you bust your ass for others for 6 years, in your spare time. Then, I have to go & try to help myself on the web because, although I was treated for lyme, one year after I backed into that tree, the MARKS had crawled from mid-spine up into my neck, into my hairline, shards of tiny red, embedded into the bridge of my nose. IT had moved up into my head…My eye started to twitch and I suddenly could no longer think clearly and spell one day. So, with a list of symptoms I typed by date and have never altered to this day, I hit the web, typed in a search about ‘fuzz coming out of your skin’, which one year, later, had also become one of my disgusting symptoms…and low and behold, I am literally HORRIFIED to find thousands of others, in my own town, in other states, other countries – ALL with the same medical conditions, same multiple symptoms, same afflictions, the same rude trademark misdiagnoses that I did, all of our marks are in the same places on our bodies, the same ‘THINGS’ coming out of our skin… This foreign CRAP exploding out of all of our NON-self inflected wounds…then I read more, about suicides – because no one will help the Morgies and I know now that I am one, just like them – before I ever read that there even was ALL of THEM, I was already one of them. I had isolated myself because I was justifiably depressed, scared I might be contagious, terrified to hurt my friends, family, dates, even our dog…
And then I got help from the last place I would have ever expected – from a parasite cleanse @ the health food store. The last place I would have ever gone, but now the first…But, oh, hey wait – parasites don’t exist in this country, right?! Oh, ‘only in countries with poor quality drinking water’. Hmmm.
I dated a doctor during this nightmare who once suggested that I might ‘pretend’ I went to Africa if I was not jaded enough to go to yet another ‘doctor’ – Is that what people need to do?! Trick the ‘doctors’ into helping us?
It is soooo horrible to be one of the seemingly few to have their eyes opened to something so evil the Associated Press won’t even cover it properly…But the day I read about Mary Leitao’s son was the day I dried my eyes and quit feeling sorry for myself. Because I realized how horrible this ALL was and that I needed to be strong to help the others. It’s so bad that some A-hole is obviously paid to set up a blog to try to confuse and deny its’ victims. So, now, for the rest of my life, no matter how well I get – I will NEVER forget how sick I was and the HELL that I went through w/this and what I KNOW tens of thousands of others are going through. I have said it before, this happened to the wrong girl, people!
I am NOT going to stand for people (and animals and the earth) being hurt and people treated this way by all these ‘doctors’ – this ALL is an absolute outrage, including what is said on here by ‘skeptics’.
So, I was this innocent little patriot, cleaning up after others and look at the ‘thanks’ I got for it. Someone owes me a M-fing explanation, at the VERY least. And the longer I wait, the more suffering I read of, the angrier I get…That joke of a CDC better get it’s head of out it’s pathetic ass since they are now doing the big ‘study’ and retrain the AMA, and in turn the doctors, instead of letting Big Pharma continue to pay the instructors of the ‘doctors’ continuing education classes!!! Somebody better start helping these people NOW – besides the HEROES @ the nmo.org that had to go and form their own CDC because no one was going to help tens of thousands of American Citizens…Those clowns @ the CDC should be thanking the HEROES of the nmo.org for doing their jobs for them, while they sat back and did nothing for over 14 years now. Worse yet, not only did the CDC NOT perform their primary job to prevent and protect us from this nightmare of a disease – they sat back for over 14 years now let their tax-paying citizens be hurt worse. Nothing or no one needs to be named or blamed in order for the CDC to begin making this right, NOW – whatever the reason behind it all, just HELP! Regardless, I’m thinking we need a ‘Congressional Hearing’ about why the CDC didn’t help for sooo long.
Scott, Thanks for any help you can provide & Very Nice to have you, Steve Frey & Dr. Smith joining in here – it’s suddenly much more intelligent conversation than usual!
C Yinz @ the organic market!
And let me chime in, also, about the Mad Cow/CJD – which, having no scientific background, just reading everything I can get my hands on that could be related, since the day I contracted Morgellon’s – I had already mentioned this, long ago…
The connection is going to end up being the ‘infected feed’ that the animals/humans were fed (humans eat infected plants or infected animals who stood in infeced soil or ate infected plants) – I.E., just for giggles, let’s say – GM agrobacterium injected hay, where that infection would spread from the Australian fields (used to be a big cattle exporter, I read) to all the animals that ate that hay to the grass & the dirt & the plants that grew from that hay, to everything it touched, farmers spead hay everywhere…That’s how IT infects – through slits or cuts, like getting poked by a rose thorn (when I backed into that tree). If IT’s in the soil, it can cut through the animals feet/hooves, too…So if we EAT IT – it would cut and infect our internal organs, as well as the body heaving IT out of wounds.
Designed for the purposes of preventing Crown Gall so plants would live longer (AKA plant cancer).
The cows, the birds, the dead honeybees, Morgellon’s. God’s Earth and all of it’s creatures are screaming for help…Somebody who knows something/someone that can do something needs to step up!
“A mind free of barriers”. With all due respect, Steve, I’m so sorry, but, right there, you’re smack dab onto it.
Your in a very contraversial position here Michael and your in it by choice and there’s something to be said for that, it certainly gets you attention. and my cause needs all of that it can get. You are undoubtably a very intelligent individual for you to be retired at your age and I respect you for that and albeit I do not agree with your position I have to applaud your passion. You and I are alike in many ways and I need people like you Michael and so thats my agenda here, not to prove whether or not morgellons is what it is but to appeal to your intelligence and win your support because the event in progress is much larger than just morgellons.
I’m sure at this point my odds of succeeding appear slim but I have complete confidence that if presented thuroughly and properly I will succeed at my mission, win your support, and turn you in the right direction, helping instead of hurting. I know this appears rather humorous right now but I have faith that this is exactly what is going to happen. This will actually give you a way out of something that you should have never gotten in, I know I’d forgive you, I can’t speak for everyone else.
I have no explanation as to why I was choosen for this job, none whatsoever. I do know that I didn’t arrive here on my own though, I was lead here in ways that I cannot explain, and to be honest Michael, a year ago I was a believer in science’s theory of evolution, it was logical and I had trouble dismissing it. I may have even been considered by some to be an athiest even.
Now, for a list of reasons as long as your arm, I am compelled to not only reconsider my position on creation versus evolution, but to question everything not proven, I now believe that I can even debunk the theory of evolution if I am successful at my mission at hand. I am not claiming to be born again or taking a stand on the side of religeon, I am simply saying that I personally now know that everything is not as evident as it seems, logic does not apply everywhere, and something is influencing the outcome of this event.
This has been a life changing event for me and rightfully so for it will be life changing for everyone on the planet, whether they’re aware of it or not. This will be, without question, the most important discovery in the history of the human species, if I sound overly dramatic it’s for a reason.
What I am propossing has been overlooked by literally everyone, every scientist, every doctor, simply everyone for possibly hundreds, maybe thousands of years. So you can see the disadvantage I have here. I am asking that you review the data with a very open mind, this is imperative. Do not let the confines of scientific knowledge restrain your thought process, and I know you can do this Michael, thats why I need you.
I know I told you that I would debate the spongy brain diseases, which I will do , but in order to expose the full scope of this event I must go beyond only one disease, in fact what I am about to present may apply to virtually all diseases, imagine if all disease could be stopped with one cure, if what I am propossing is true then this is within the realm of possibilty.
I will start by giving you an overall summary of this event which will sound very radical at first but very logical once all the facts are exosed. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence to suggest that possibly every human disease that is caused by or related to proteins, collagens, cell mutation, dna manipulation, bacterias, mycoplasmas, microsporidains, nematodes, Fungi, the central nervous system, or the bodies use and disposal of calcium are likely to be a result of the presence of near microscopic organisms possessing traits and characteristics that are consistent with the Phylum Porifera, the sponges. Science knows these animals have a remarkable power to alter the structure of a cell, dissolve and ingest calcium, ingest, alter, store and use chemicals and compounds of all kinds, produce proteins and calcium carbonate at astounding rates, completely dissassociate down to single cells dispurse throughout a liquid and then reaggregate, to adapt to almost any environment, and to have survived for possibly as long as 1000 million years. Science knows that many sponges carry with them bacterias, mycoplasmas, microsporidains, aglaes, fungi, and other invertebrates, They know that some species are parasitic, some are borers, some are homes to literally thousands of other associated organisms that can generally be found co-habitating a sponge colony. Science knows all of this about the Sponge, but yet they apparently know so very little.
How could something like his elude detection by so many who have looked for so long? The answer to this question is the key here, if you let yourself believe that this is true then everything else will fall into place. I contend that the Sponge possess the ability to Mimic other organisms, animal mimicry is, by the way, a scientific fact. I also contend that it can do this by sampling it’s host’s DNA, which I see as logical conjecture since it only makes sense, how else could animal mimicry be possible, ask yourself that question. Furthermore, I contend that when the sponge takes this DNA sample, by whatever means it uses, it not only uses the genetic coding to perform it’s feat of mimicry at that time but it also stores this data and has the ability to reproduce the organism it represents at will, at anytime in it’s future. If there is a limit to the number of organisms genetic code that it can store this limit is certainly very large. There are many facts and findings that will support this possibility if only you allow them to, I will provide more of these facts in the posts to come but just to give you an example of what i am referring to consider this scientific finding, genetic coding that represents the makings of a nervous system has recently been found within the DNA of a marine sponge. What is so relavant about this you ask, the sponge has no nervous system whatsoever, it never has, so why on earth would the sponge possess this genetic coding, and an even more intersting fact is that this genetic coding is almost identical to the coding of a human nervous system. What does science say about this, they say it’s evidence that we evolved from the sponge. What do I say about this, I say it has this genetic coding because we are one of it’s it’s hosts and it sampled the DNA associated with our nervous system, since this is one of it’s targets which I will elaborate on in posts to come, and stored this coding for future use. This is the more logical answer to the question “why does the sponge contain genetic coding for a nervous system when it has no resemblance of one itself?”
With this idea in place it now becomes possible to explain just how the sponge maintains it’s anonaminity. Of course, simply due to differences in masses, it would be impossible for the sponge to store and reproduce a human in it’s entirety but wouldn’t you agree that it could atleast reproduce a portion of it, such as skin cells, hair cells, and the like, and if it could do so wouldn’t this give it the ability to hide in plain view?
I will take a break at this point and give you some time to ingest what I have said while I prepare the next post, there is much yet to reveal.
Just a FYI,
The new horror-thriller novel “Infected’ by Scott Sigler takes Morgellons disease and puts a scary sci-fi twist on it. It’s definitely fiction, and definitely creepy.
Take a look at http://www.infectednovel.com
[EDIT by Michael: Combined multiple cut-n-paste posts into original links only]
It’s important to get an understanding of what we do and do not know about the sponges, here is one authors opinion.
Scientists Find a Touch of Sophistication in the Genes of a Simple Sponge
I haven’t tried yet to connect the sponge to this discovery but my theory regarding the sponge and animal mimicry is certainly a logical explanation for this next story.
Bizarre Frog Has No Lungs
Masters of Mimicry
Steve, posting entire articles is not acceptable. Please synthesize your own arguments, and post them with supporting quotes and links.
Your links so far do not add up to much. Sponges are biologically interesting, they have archeocytes (a very primitive form of stem cell), some amphibians have no lungs, and some animals imitate other animals. What does this have to do with Morgellons?
And, just to be clear, can you say how the current theory of evolution fits into your theory. What framework are you working in, regarding the age of life on earth, the development of DNA, and the origin of species?
I’m trying the best I can michael to sum up a year and a half of research while still getting my point accross. My point with all this other stuff was to try and give the readers an understanding of just how unusual, diverse, unknown, and debated the Phylum Porifera is and has been and to focus particular attention on the vast number of life forms that in one way or another are closely connected, also to focus on the relevance that science places on sponge genetics when applied ot the theory of evolution. I could literally go on for weeks discussing this topic but had no plans to do that, I will begin directly discussing the spongy brain diseases in my next post, hopefully tonight.
I would prefer it if you would discuss Morgelons. That’s what this blog is about.
Sure, Porifera is interesting, but so are thousands of other things. What has it got to do with all these people who have horrible itching, and find fibers on their skin?
It’s all related Michael, to present all of the evidence would require discussing dozens of diseases, porifera, and the theory of evolution. The only reason I was not choosing to discuss Morgellons is because it makes my job two-fold, not only do I have to argue the cause I have to argue it’s validity as well, with a disease already established I could just argue the cause, in any event all the roads lead to the same place. So I’ll be happy to argue morgellons, that was my goal after all.
So let me start where I left off with Porifera, through my extensive research of this Phylum I have come to a few conclussions, first there’s more we don’t know about the sponges than we do know, they are extremely mysterious and very unique. Second, they are the most deversified animal on the planet, bar-none, they appear to have the ability to exist wherever they need to, they adapt and evolve like a machine. Third, they always have a wide array of symbiont, parasitic, and associated organisms living amongst them, with a list of organisms that spans 3 domains and 18 bacterial and archaeal Phylums.
So how does all this apply to Morgellons? Let me just list some causes and effects without providing reference to facts until asked to do so because the overall volumn of data involved here is immense.
The fibers associated with morgellons are sponge spicules and/or stolons, other terms used are rootlets, rhizooids, spongin, and basil threads. Some evidence in support of this claim can be found with Dr Hildy’s group claiming nanotech because these fibers appear to be similar to fiber optics. Well it just so happens that deep sea sponges are known to create spicules that not only resemble man made fiber optics but perform better than them as well, they are even made from the same material. These articles are easy to find so I see no need to reference them.
Additional support for this claim comes from the physical characteristics and chemical compositon of both the morgellons fibers and sponge spicules. I have done a comparison of scientific findings relating to spicules and Dr Hildy’s chemical composition of the fibers and although they are not identical they are similar enough to support my claim, additionally studies have shown that the compositon of sponge spicules is directly affected by environment. The fact that these fibers are always more predominate in lesions is because the sponge is known to produce spines and spicules as defensive behavior, the actual lesions themselves are most likely to also be a result of defensive behavior and the spong’s use of toxins which are known to cause dermatological effects to humans. This area involving the correlation of sponge spicules to morgellons fibers is very detailed and the amount of facts and findings involved is immense so I will await your specific requests for information before I go into further detail.
The reports of seeing orange color under ultraviolet light in various parts of the bodies of morgellons sufferers can be explained by the sponge’s production of Calcium Carbonate, also know as Calcite , Aragonite, and Florite, Calcite flouresces orange under ultraviolet light. The sponge’s constant production of Calcium Carbonate can also account for the widespread joint pain, constipation, confussion or “brain fog”, headache, and depression since these are all symptoms of Calcium Carbonate overdose.
They damage to the nervous system of morgellons sufferers is along the same lines as the spongy brain diseases. It is my contention that the sponge apparently seeks the nerves because of the electrical impulses present there, I believe that they can feed from them, this explains their locating themsleves within the brain and spinal column, and this can also account for the finding within sponge DNA the genetic coding associated with a nervous system.
The widely variable reports of various bugs and insects either on or in the morgellons sufferers can be accounted for by the animal mimicry I have discussed earlier, these reports can either be dismissed entirely becasue they seem so bizarre or they can be accounted for by this theory, which sounds more logical to me.
Unfortunately, it is NOT more logical. Here we have a clear choice:
A) People sometimes see insects on their skin, and think they have emerged from their skin when they actually just landed or crawled there.
B) They are infected by a sponge that can transform itself into something that looks like various insects.
Really, which seems more logical?
Michael, isn’t it more logical to assumn that this very large group of people that are located throughout the globe and whom all claim to share very similar symptoms including reports of insects emerging from their bodies, are most likely not dilusional and instead are really seeing what they claim to see, and let’s not discuss apples and oranges Michael, sure some people may mistake an insect landing on them as one emerging from them but not every case, you cannot dismiss everyone of these reports as the individual being mistaken. I personally have morgellons and I’ve known that there was something unusual going on in my skin for over 14 years. I for one had never experienced these “other” bugs and insects so when I first began my research there was no question in my mind that the individuals who were reporting
these things had just gone a bit too far out of reality. It wasn’t just the reports of other bugs and insects that I refused to believe there were many characteristics of this ailment that were just too bizarre to acknowledge, and I am a sufferer of it. Each time that I ventured beyond the line that I had drawn seperating reality from fantasy I had a rude awakening, I found myself seeing with my own eyes some of the very claims that I told myself couldn’t be happening. They are happening, I no longer discredit anything anymore because the sponge acting in the capacity of the theory that I am propossing provides the logic to tie all of it together and it becomes even stronger the further it is applied. I have personally performed an experiment that I suspect no one will believe Michael, and I know in my own mind that the results could not have been mistaken because I repeated the experiment three additional times with the same results. The organism which is involved in MY morgellons has the ability to literally transcend a latex glove, I kid you not, and do I sound like individual who is not in control of his mind, no because I’m in thurough contro of it and it’s as sharp a tack. This very experiment is a critical piece of evidence, at least for me it is, and it was this particular piece of evidence that allowed me to come to the conclusion that I reached. You see transcending a latex glove may not be as impossible as it sounds when one considers the FACT that the sponge possess the ability to completely disassociate itself into single cells, dispurse, and then reaggregate, it’s the only organism on the planet that can perform this feat. So if you could possibly open your mind enough to believe that maybe 10% of these reports of “other” bugs and insects are valid THEN my theory involving animal mimicry most logically explains this event.
Again–all this BS and not one of you has seen a real patient or went to the conference.
What are you so afraid of that you have to spend years talking about something you know nothing about and have never seen anyone who has this althoughI have offered?
Such a sad state of affiars this site is.
I check with it just to laugh out loud at the losers who spend so much time talkng about something they know nothing about.
Get a job–stop eating and typing and get out of the house and move!!!
I picture all of you that run this as big fat losers with drug habits doing this for fun cuz you are unable to be employed and then I think–it is nicely done–must be the group hired by the creator the disease trying to do their best to debunk and avoid a HUGE legal battle. But you are losing the battle and the war and eventually you will see as ill anyone that ever went to this site what huge BS-ers you actuall are.
Such a waste of time and energy for chicken who have turned down my offer to see a real patient time and time again.
Why not talk about something you have seen–touched–felt—have a first hand knowledge of–othe than being X-drug addicts.
Such a joke this site it. Please people–do not listen to these no knowledge individuals–theyare total BS-ers.
You want to know a real person–you want to see facts–call me 434-974-7128
I sure hope your COOKIES are gtting you enough e-mail addresse so you can make a profit by dishing out your BS.
Excuse me, Chester inspired you with her “Hanging Out Inside The Lesion”, Steve, but she’s literally dissecting herself.
And, just to be clear, can you say how the current theory of evolution fits into your theory. What framework are you working in, regarding the age of life on earth, the development of DNA, and the origin of species?
Sorry I didn’t see this earlier.
I will be honest with you Michael, I personally do not beleive human beings evolved, not after what I have learned, but my theory supports an evolution, just not the evolution science currently supports. I am envisioning an induced evolution, one that was a direct result of the sponges ability to duplicate, manipulte, and recreate life. Convergent evolution in some respects. I have no arguement with the fossil evidence and how it is interpreted, i have no arguement with the age of the earth as science currently understands it, The Developement of DNA and the origin of species. Before I got into this I never gave DNA enough thought to really consider it’s origin, if I had I probably would have ruled out the evolution of humans a long time ago. My theory explains in every way shape and form the misconception of evolution, it will explain why there is no fossil evidence bridging the gaps between species, and it completely explains the immense diversity seen around the globe. In the biggest picture i can draw it is possible that Porifera may have had a hand in one or more of the Mass Extinction Events that have occured on this planet.If I am asked to specifically state the origin of species all I feel certain about is we did not occure by chance and we do not share the same origin as the Porifera
Just one more thing, if you can really open up your mind try to imagine the possibility that the ancestor of all sponges was the one and only form of life that did not have Nucleic Acid and did not have DNA and the only reason we find it in the sponges today is because it has stored the genetic coding that it has acquired from it’s hosts. This could provide the answers to many questions.
Post a video of this experiment, and then we can discuss it.
Until then, your theory holds no water, and I’m not going to discuss it.
Evidence first, then discussion.
She did not inspire me Smiley, the thought of my teenage daughter having to suffer from this affliction is and always will be my inspiration, chester is however a remarkable individual who somehow manages to carry on after suffering from tragedies most of us could never even imagine, she is loved by many and I’m sure your aware of her popularity. I have nothing but respect for her and I will not participate in any kind of debate which involves her. All I will say is she has contributed significantly in the study of this affliction and her work is some of the best in the world, but you would have to have insight to appreciate that and that is something you guys refuse to accept even when it’s been offered to you.
No Michael I’m not going that way, see this is exactly why I wanted to debate the spongy brain diseases, because I won’t have to argue whether or not there is an “effect” before I correlate the “cause” with it. I do not have a video of this experiment Michael because it takes place over a 30 to 45 minute time span, not to say that that makes it impossible it just wasn’t very practical at the time, I do have pictures at a 200x magnification but I don’t think it will make any difference what you see since it’s obvious you are really affraid to debate anything, you pick only the weakest areas to address. Why don’t you try to debunk my theory that the spongy brain diseases are caused by the sponge. Atleast then I won’t have to prove that there are microscopic holes in the brain just like a sponge leaves in shelled invertebrates and that there is a special protein called fibronectin that causes it and coincidently that very protein is found in a sponge, but even more interesting it’s only found during the time the sponge is in a disassociated state., and that they also find protein plaques which is exactly what you would find if you found a sponge in the brain, the only thing they don’t find is nuclic acid from which to extract DNA. Everything I am saying makes sense and you cannot explain any of it away. I guess I over estimated you Michael I thought you would be more rational and have a true interest in science.
For two reasons:
A) It has nothing to do with Morgellons
B) It’s not actually a theory, it’s a hypothesis
And really it’s not even a hypothesis, it’s speculation.
it has everything to do with morgellons if it is caused by the same thing
And nothing if it is not.
Show some evidence.
Randy, Tallcotton and I may come to visit you in late spring or early summer.
Steve, excuse me, but I’ve only seen your accolades for the influences that Chester (and Cliff Mickelson) have had on you.
I’ll go along with you and accept that you know for a fact that your brain is riddled with holes. Since you know that your brain is in that condition, why do you trust your mind?
As bad as it is, I very much recommend that people read Chester’s topic thread (nearly 500 comments so far)
The Face of Morgellons
Randy, Tallcotton and I may come to visit you in late spring or early summer.
Steve, excuse me, but I’ve only seen your accolades for the influences that Chester (and Cliff Mickelson) have had on you.
I’ll go along with you and accept that you know for a fact that your brain is riddled with holes. Since you know that your brain is in that condition, why do you trust your mind?
As bad as it is, I very much recommend that people read Chester’s topic thread (nearly 500 comments so far) entitled, “Hanging Out Inside The Lesion”, on the message board at morgellons-disease-research. Reading her account gives more insight into the condition she considers to be “morgellons disease” than the “CHAMBERLIN2007’s photostream” she has on flicker, or her “Dissectmorgellons” videos on youtube.
Steve, concerning that stuff about “your morgellons trascending a latex glove”….
Among the countless things that I experienced (and didn’t understand) when I was ill, was when perspiration from my hands penetrated through a plastic bottle of dishwashing liquid and came out inside of the liquid on the other side of the bottle in uniform formations. This happened with shampoo and hand lotion too. Whether touching the outer cellophane wrapper on a cigarette package, or a plastic bag, anything like that seemed to melt. I resorted to wearing rubber gloves, and the perspiration ate holes in them. I couldn’t wear anything because the fluids from my skin ate holes in my clothes, as well as everything else it came into contact with.
I had wads of fibers tunnel out from underneath my skin, and the sores left in the aftermath festered as I watched what looked like sweat bees hatching, and flying off after they out. I was real ill for two months, physically, and, in turn, it affected my mind. This was in 2002, and I didn’t know about “morgellons disease” back then. Although I came across some extremely bizarre writings on some message board, I’d thought it was a sci-fi game that everyone was discussing.
Michael’s blog can help someone who wants help, but only when that person’s ability to accept truth is intact.
Riddle me this Batman….
If all the people who believe they have a novel infectious disease do suffer a psychiatric condition called Delusions of Parasitosis, then could the pseudo-medical ‘enfants terrible’ who are MorgellonsWatch, possibly be suffering a psychiatric condition of their own?
It would hardly be considered within the parameters of sanity, to create and drive a reactionary website with such persistent messianic themes.
Such behaviour must patently be considered at best obsessive. A false and fixed belief that this ‘band of brothers’ can or should make anything more than the most ephemeral difference. Even if the redemptive delusion is but a smoke screen for a pernicious attack on a group of people with no apparent connection to this site, that at least must represent a sociopathic pursuit.
Excuse this presumptious assertion but I would most stridently suggest that such behaviour does little credit to MorgellonsWatch. I would further contend that these fallacious factiods may provide justification for arcane diagnoses and clinical laxity in doctors who may have forgetten they are not omniscient. Not surprisingly such faux divinty moulds well with this sites esoteric pursuits.
While opportunity presents, I am compelled to point out that the methodology in attempting to prove the DoP/Anti-Morgs position exactly mirrors the tactics of radicals within the opposition. Editing psychiatric/dermatological texts without qualifications lends little weight to any argument. The none too subtle irony provides a timely reminder that this technique is literally and literarily laughable.
I trust enough emotionally maturity prevails at MorgellonsWatch to comprehend constructive criticism. The public rationale for your perpetually redundant raison d’etre is keenly anticipated.
In that spirit I wish you well in life, should you get one.
My rational has always been public. I think people are not getting the health care they need because the focus on Morgellons being a distinct disease is leading them to ignore other possibilities.
The following has been on my site for two years:
Generic, when someone doesn’t have the capacity to reason it compromises their well being as well as the well being of others. Such patients have gone quite public. If I want to talk about it and you don’t like it, that’s just tough shit. Go tell a shrink about it.
“Chronic lyme” preceded the advent of “morgellons disease”, and both false diseases were designed with a common denominator to meet the needs of patients who’ve got to have it their way.
Morgellons Watch is a blog that such people as that can’t be expected to understand.
No offense intended smiley but I was actually seeking an intelligent debate with Michael because I just assumned that he might be able to match wits with me, and I still think he could if he wasn’t such an ass most of the time. I don’t see you and cotton as anything special, sorry.
Smiley you should take a little more time when you read something, I have never once said or even eluded to the idea that i think my brain is riddled with holes, that couldn’t be further from the truth, in fact I’m so damn good at whatever I do that I amaze myself at times, I’ve always excelled well above my piers at whatever I do so there’s no doubt that I’m no average Joe, Kidd Rock put out a song that I like to refer to at times like this, it’s called “Cocky” and goes a little something like this
“They say I’m cocky, and I say what, it braggin m__ther f__cker if you back it up!”
A logical explanation, can you please elaborate Michael on what is illogical about my theory, excuse me since this is currently under debate we’ll call it my idea,
Lets look at the components one at a time and analyze their logic.
I propose that the sponge is in the brain:
With the abilty to dissolve and ingest calcium they have the “means” to accomplish this and their boring into other living organisms is a known scientific fact. The only aspect I cannot prove about this component is that there is no record of it in the past, certainly no reason to deem it illogical.
I propose that the sponge is making the holes and tunnels that are found with the spongy brain diseases.
Fact: Boring sponges leave the exact same conditions in shelled invertebrates, even the physical size of such tunnels and holes are similar to what is found with the spongy brain diseases.
I propose that the sponge is making the proteins that are found with the spongy brain diseases, called prions, specifically Fibronectin
Fact: Fibronectin, a virtual duplicate of what is found in humans, is found in marine and fresh water sponges, it is found only while in a state of disassociation which is proof that this protein is not just present in the sponge but that the sponge produces it
I propose that the Protein plaques found with the spongy brain diseases is a result of the sponge.
Fact: the sponge is a master of protein production and manipulation, to support this claim I offer the following quote:
“He explains that his research group discovered that the center of the sponge’s fine glass needles contains a filament of protein that controls the synthesis of the needles. By cloning and sequencing the DNA of the gene that codes for this protein, they discovered that the protein is an enzyme that acts as a catalyst, a surprising discovery. Never before had a protein been found to serve as a catalyst to promote chemical reactions to form the glass or a rock-like material of a biomineral.”
Additionally the sponge is simply a blob of protein
I fail to see anything illogical here Michael, can you please be specific when you reply to my arguement instead of what I’ve seen so far, you’ve failed to impress me with your stand on the issues, you must not have participated on the Debate Team.
I will be waiting for your arrival. Let me know a wek in advance so I can rearrange my schedule. I will give you some credit if your words are true. Let me know how much you want to spend on a hotel. This is a UNiversity town with concerts and games, graduations and other things–so let me know so I can see which weekend is best without having to worry about a hotel–I would invite you to sleep at my home–but I would not do that to you.
Finally you will see the truth first hand and up close. Please bring an open mind and a microscope if you have one.
PS The Lyme connecton–agro connection may or may not be valid–people are just looking for something that makes sense with a diseae that makes no sense. I have thought perhaps thos that were not breast fed werre more apt to catch this than those that were not. I also founf it highly unlikely that those with a negative RH factor have this–most have a postiive RH factor–all they , we and I am trying to do is to find the thread that connects so then perhaps we can find a cure. It is horrible to be inflected with this plague–my body–although a few months ago was mostly clear is now 95% riddled wth painful lesions that all came upina weeks time and have not healed.
Let me tell what does suck the “Juice” out of them. Sublime sulfur–lots of it mixed with baby oil and applied to the lesions every night. It is cheap ad not dangerous to do.
I hope we have your prayers that someone will find out what this really is–and it really is an unknown disease–that is crippling many lives. May it never touch yours–if it does you will never be the same. It is quite horible.
I made some lemonade about not being able to be seen in public during the day due to these lesions and have written a fun book ( 100,00 words) my editor and I are shopping to agents and publishers via queries this week. Affairs of Affluence. Watch for it! Morgies can still function at a high level even while beng very sick. Life IS NOT over.
Hey Michael, Smileykins,
Thanks for not addressing the simple points in my post. As smileykins so eloquently puts it “when someone doesn’t have the capacity to reason it compromises their well being as well as the well being of others”. I entirely agree, so tough it out guys, you like phucking people over, now’s the time to put up or shutup.
Why do you care?
Why do you do it?
What motivates you to zealously pursue a topic that has no direct effect on your life?
Why imply you act in this nebulous public interest?
Why assume a veneer of reason and responsibility yet promote a reactionary agenda?
Why do you quote from medical texts when you have no background in medicine?
Have you considered that your behaviour may represent a sociopathic disturbance?
Smileykins: You said, “both false diseases were designed with a common denominator to meet the needs of patients who’ve got to have it their way.” Would you consider that comment as based in fact or reflective of an unhealthy perception?
Anticipation of a legitimate response is still eagerly awaited.
Generic, you used to post as “Hugh”, did you not?
I answered your question. I think people are not getting the health care they need because the focus on Morgellons being a distinct disease is leading them to ignore other possibilities.
Please try to have a constructive discussion. Attacking the motives of someone in an argument (especially a scientific argument) is a very low ranking technique, and does not serve to move the argument forwards. I present arguments, you should attempt to refute them, no ask why I’m not doing something better with my life. That’s beside the point.
Here’s a list of argument techniques, please try to use techniques higher than level 3 if you are going to post here.
Here it is in visual form:
In fact, I think I’ll make it a policy, please read this:
Evidence like this just simply cannot ber ignored, the following scientific facts very strongly support the preconceived idea that a member of the Phylum Porifera stores the genetic coding for many other organisms and that it has the ability to move through the human body as well as a latex glove.
Mitochondrial Genome of the Homoscleromorph Oscarella carmela (Porifera,
Demospongiae) Reveals Unexpected Complexity in the Common Ancestor of
Sponges and Other Animals
Genome Organization: The Largest Set of Genes in Animal
mtDNA, Unusual Gene Order, and High Coding Density
The tatC codes for the largest and usually the most conserved subunit of the twin-arginine transport (Tat) pathway, which exists in prokaryotic organisms, chloroplasts, and some mitochondria, and functions in the transport of fully folded proteins and enzyme complexes across membranes
This article is completely fascinating to me, if you have any interest at all in science you would have to find it, at a minimum, very interesting. I encourage you to read it just try to entertain the idea of what I am claiming. I’m not some guy just jerking your chain Michael, this is serious and the evidence is just laying out there everywhere, but for some reason nobody else has put it all together. Try to imagine what the effects on the human body would be if microscopic members of this sponge species were inside the human body, with the abilty, scientifically supported ability to move true membrains and to produce calcium carbonate and vertically transmit other organisms and to produce novel proteins, and collagens, and to elude detection by it’s powers of cell dissassociation, I could go on and on, it’s all there Michael.
I post here rarely, but I do follow the posts and these comments fairly frequently. I must admit, I do that now more out of interest in the argument techniques than anything else. I’ve stated my position on Morgellons fairly clearly in the past, and I await the verdict of the scientific community to make the ultimate decision in my mind.
I’m mostly posting tonight to point out that, despite hand-waving to the commentary, the originator of this blog is only arguing that there is no clear evidence to support Morgellons as a distinct disease and until there is, those who feel they suffer from it should continue to listen to their doctor and treat whatever affliction that doctor says they have.
Now certainly, Margellons/Michael is defensive of his position. He’s supported it for years. However, I think he’d be the first to say that in the face of credible published scientific evidence, he’d be among the first “mainstream” people to recognize Morgellons. I was fairly impressed that he accepted information that flat out contradicted his latest post and linked to it in an update of said post to display to anyone who read that post that an argument of his had been apparently overwhelmingly defeated. Perhaps this was easier because it didn’t affect his overall argument, but still, most people would have been more defensive.
In my mind, the most interesting scenario is if the general scientific/medical community finds a distinct cause for Morgellons. What, then, happens to those who have self-identified with the disease or have been diagnosed with it by quacks? As my first comment here states, I have met two people who are certain they have this disease, both of whom failed to convince me when i wanted to be convinced, and one of whom very clearly was seeing things that weren’t there. This latter person had eventually been diagnosed by a so-called medical expert.
I hope that, if Morgellons is found to be a distinct disease, there is a relatively black and white test developed to diagnose it. If not, it will remain a source of controversy and arguments like those developed here may help separate those with Morgellons from those who suffer from some other physical or mental afflictions.
Steve, all that article basically says is in the conclusion, that:
There is no connection between Tat pathways, and something going through a latex glove. The word “membrane” in the article refers to biological microscopic membranes such as those found in cells. Not macroscopic membranes such as skin latex.
Please don’t post any more on this theory unless you can show a specific connection to Morgellons, or some experiments you have performed. This site is about Morgellons.
I think it is highly likely that within the group of people who identify as having Morgellons, there is a distinct medical condition, the cause of which is new to science.
In fact I think there are probably several.
I say this simply because the causes of itching are not fully understood, hence there must be some causes that are new to science.
But the fact that one or more of the causes of the symptoms are new to science would not change any of my basic points.
Suppose the CDC or Wymore, or Stricker, find this cause that is new to science, and they call it Morgellons. Then what about the 99% of the patients that do not have this cause? What do they have?
And what of the fibers. How can you talk about a “a relatively black and white test developed to diagnose it” when people, according to Wymore, clear have fibers embedded in their skin? What if the cause does not explain the fibers, or explain them as having overly sticky, weepy, skin that traps environmental fibers? Is that Morgellons.
We still have the language problem here. What is “it”? When you say “this disease”, or “Morgellons”, what are you referring to? The one, as yet unknown cause of a small number of cases, or all the cases?
What is the definition of “Morgellons”, and how does it make any sense to talk of a “a distinct cause of Morgellons”?
I definitely agree with you in regards to michael… he is right… it is not a distinctive disease & people should continue to listen to their doctors until………….
I also believe that he would be a stand up guy when/if proven wrong.
However, do you know how many disease are out there that DO NOT have a black and white “diagnostic tool”? Too many to name.
That doesn’t mean that it will be forever debated because the difference with this disease and others like fibromyalgia, Lupus, Bechets… is that there is some sort of tangible culprit being pointed at as the “cause”… meaning, the fibers, specs, etc.
The very things that haunt us will be the key that unlocks the mystery door. I hope…
If I could simply know one way or another if it is possible for environmental fibers/toxins to be ingested then rejected by the body and then ejected through the pores… I’d sleep a whole lot better at night! If only it were THAT simple!!!!!
I agree with your conclusions.
Interesting interview with Wymore
Still harping on that one fiber, from two years ago, that did not melt.
People–PUR water filtration systems was experimenting with a fiber that pulled out toxins from dirty water in third world countries and was given away in places like Texas, Florida and California during natural disasters there that required the need for clean water. The fibers were developed to remove toxins in a barrel of water and then the water wouls be filtered through a chees cloth and he clean water would be able to be used for drinking.
These fibers were SUPPOSE to be captured by the cheese cloth but were not so they had to revise the whole kit and kaboodle–and it is going to be marketed nxt month–if all goes according to plan.
The CDC is part of this and helped financially and has a stake it the developement of it.
The Fibers they used DID NOT filter out of the water when he water was filtered. They were ingested–and that is what we have in our bodies now–fibers developed to pull in all types of toxins and debris–is it all making sense now?
If you really want to do your homework–check Proctor and Gamble–I think it is–if they make PURR–find out all about how the formula works–why they dropped the first batch and had to recreate the new batch–and then you will know what we have and who is responsile for it.
Do something positive and good with your BS research–ok? And as of today no one has called me about visiting–also if you use Sulfur mixed with a little bit of baby oil and then with some type of either make-up or tanning product (Something unpure–to pull out your fibers into the sulfur–and then you peel the scabs off–sorry to be so vulgur–you will heal yourself–it takes a really long time–but you will see progress after 3 months.) YOu have to give the fibers something to attach to and make them come out of your body.
Tulsa police forensic lab unable to identify Moregellons fibers, says Randy Wymore, Ph.D. (Director of the Center for Investigation of Morgellons Disease at Oklahoma State University and Assoc. Prof. of Pharmacology in OSU’s Center for Health Sciences, Tulsa, Oklahoma):
Selby, that story is two years old, it’s originally from June 2006. The only think interesting about it is that two years later, that still all the evidence he has to talk about.
He says there was one fiber that did not melt at 1400F. Now, why do you think nobody has repeated this experiment?
And what about all the fibers that DID melt or burn?
All he did back then was product more evidence that the average Morgellons fiber is simply environment contamination. In that case it was probably something like fiberglass.
So are you saying is that a police forensics lab can’t identify fiberglass? Or asbestos? What do you mean by “something like fiberglass”? It seems that you want to say it’s a common contaminant (like the above two), not something exotic — or do you want to have it both ways?
I’m saying they can’t be expected to identify EVERY fiber that you find. Eventually, as in this case, there will be a fiber they can’t identifiy with their limited time, equipment and experience. It’s not the FBI after all, it’s just the Tulsa Police.
By “something like fiberglass”, I mean something that shares the physical properties of fiberglass. There are lots of different forms of fiberglass, and there are other fibers like ceramics, carbon, and the various kinds of asbestos that have similar physical properties.
You are confusing “it” (Morgellons fibers in general), with this one particular fiber. Lots of different types of fiber have been found and photographed. Look at Mark Darrah’s work – he found lots of cotton, and even some fibers from a green scrubbing sponge. There is no “it”, when it comes to the fibers – just lots of different fibers, which most likely means they are environmental.
Gee Mike, did I make a personal attack? I see you trimmed off my last two paragraphs, although there was nothing about anyone having his head up his ass (as in at least one post I’ve seen here) or anything remotely abusive.
Selby, the parts I removed from you last post, and this current one, were to do with questioning my credentials. If you had read the disagreement policy you would have seen that this, being ad hominem, is not an acceptable form of argument, so I deleted it.
Also, if you read the FAQ, you will see it says:
Anyone see this video?
Lots of people happy they don’t mention DOP, if that means anything
That’s an old video, back from January 12 2008. They don’t actually mention anything as any possible cause, as it would prejudge the investigation.
I have had the fiber diease for six months. I bought a microscope and it took two months of research to see the first fiber moving. I think it is related to the cotton industry. I also saw fibers moving on cotton Q tips and cotton balls. I know that some of you would send me to the funny farm but I am willing to take any mental test a doctor can throw at me. I saw a doctor today and he sent me on my way without so much as a goodby. The fibers are on my face. they come out like a beard. I can shave them off and they will be back in two or three hours. no hair grows that fast. I know I used to be a barber. They are in a tightly packed plug, they unravel and they start to crawl over you. The CDC has given money to a doctor in Calf. to study the problem. I hope this info will help someone. Ron
Anyone seen this San Diego news piece showing the Morgellons worms coming out of this lady.
She rubs lemons on her hands, and then she finds lemon pulp on her skin.
See new post:
I was told that the people that run this site would visit with me months ago and check out the truth. They have not. They still claim they are in the know about something they know nothing about and refuse to see a real person with this up close and personal.
Please collect your government checks and get a new job. You are exposed for who you truly are. Phoney frauds-debunkers who know nothing of what you speak.
LOSERS! I would love to trace this site to the DoD or Dept of Agriculture or PUUR.
Randy, I run this site, and I never said I would come visit you. In fact I have explained several times why I would NOT come visit you, or any of the several other people who suggested such a thing. (I would not see anything that your doctor’s had seen, and I trust the medical judgment of several doctors more than I trust my own medical judgment).
Other commenters may have said they would visit you, but that’s between you and them.
This site is just something I do as a hobby. I hope I have helped people by providing a clear explanation of all sides of the subject. I encourage people to work with their doctors, and to avoid quackery.
morgellons disease is a real condition. maybe not in all cases, but it is real. it is almost as if doctors are purposely discrediting the condition, on the behalf of someone higher up the chain. I’m not saying it is a government conspiracy, but the ‘explanations’ seem more like empty excuses. I’ve seen people say they are scratching themselves to cause the open sores, but don’t you think these people, even if ‘crazy’, would be able to recollect that? even the people who pull out their own hair, strand by strand, can recall doing it. morgellons seems to be concentrated in certain area’s, so obviously there is some environmental factor causing this disease, whether it is in their heads or not. considering this disease hasn’t been reported prior to the industrial age, like many others we have these days, I’m willing to blame it partially on that.
I’ve seen the fibers explained as possible fibers from clothes building up in there, but is there ever any proven tests of these fibers to show what they are made of?
pretty much they are saying morgellons is a psychotic disease where you think you have bugs crawling under your skin, so you scratch at it, and you get sores, and these sores get clothes fibers in them, and voila…you’ve got morgellons right? well then why doesn’t anyone hardly ever get fibers caught in their sores, gashes, cuts, etc, like they do with morgellons? you would think everyone would get morgellon like fibers in those, but they don’t. so what makes it any different for these people? surely they can’t placing the fibers there on purpose.
sell assembling nano is a very sound idea, but it would need proof. I could see self assembling nano wires being a very serious hazard for anyone, and the manufacturing processes aren’t exactly environmental. with all of the nano technology manufacturing rising, it is only a matter of time before we start seeing diseases related to it, just like other diseases are related to pollution from smoke stacks and other sources. some people don’t realize how small nano is, it’s small enough to pass right through your cell membrane without even puncturing it, and small enough to even poke out individual pieces of your dna, so here you are with a sequence of GTTATTAC and something nano comes along in the air, and passing right through your skin cells, and now you only have GTTATTC, or worse.
Open sores don’t get fibers in them?
Even the most sensible sounding people who have self-diagnosed with Morgellons, such as Cindy Casey, freely admit to excessive scratching, even when told to stop scratching by their doctors. See:
And if you look at Lymebusters, where most of the media-promoted patients are from, there is no end to to discussion of people “working” on their lesions to “extract” the “morgs” For example:
Of course, every case is different, and I’m sure there are people who have self-diagnosed with Morgellons who do NOT pick or scratch, but instead have some other kind of dermatological condition.
But this all misses the point. The real point here is that there is no evidence that all these people are suffering from the same condition. They seem to have a variety of different conditions.